Kratos vs Yhwach

[Planck69]

I read the section. Still have questions. The closest it gets to something resembling info manip is a vague statement of "the runes connecting all". I'll gladly rescind my statement in light of contrary evidence, but as it stands I'm just not seeing it.

I mean, that's fair but that's what's been accepted on a CRT already.

So no one's mentioned this already, but Yhwach has the Balance and the Antithesis (Antithesis isn't on the profile for some reason but he should have it). He can just clone himself a bunch of times with the Visionary, and even if Kratos oneshots those clones, he can still just reflect all that damage back on to him, so he can sort of "indirectly" use Kratos's abilities against him, even if he can't copy them outright.

Kratos resists his own kit entirely.

 

[BloodyBloodwork365]

Good thing Kratos resists or can easily endure his entire kit.

Would it even work to begin with? With everything else Kratos resists, I would've assumed Probability and Event Manipulation were part of it.
What he's arguing is that all the damage Kratos inflicts on the clones is transferred to him. Not whatever did the damage, but the damage itself.

 

[Jin2188]

I mean, that's fair but that's what's been accepted on a CRT already.

Yeah I know, which is why I think I'm gonna make one.

Kratos resists his own kit entirely.

Is he immune to his own damage? Like I know there's something about him not being able to die by his own hand, but he's clearly able to hurt himself at least, we see that several times. Not to mention The Balance can amplify the misfortune it redirects, and Yhwach can use Antithesis and Balance together, meaning that Kratos is being hit with over twice the damage of his own attacks.

 

[Planck69]

Would it even work to begin with? With everything else Kratos resists, I would've assumed Probability and Event Manipulation were part of it.
What he's arguing is that all the damage Kratos inflicts on the clones is transferred to him. Not whatever did the damage, but the damage itself.

Kratos does resist Probability Manipulation.

 

[BloodyBloodwork365]

Yeah I know, which is why I think I'm gonna make one.

Is he immune to his own damage? Like I know there's something about him not being able to die by his own hand, but he's clearly able to hurt himself at least, we see that several times. Not to mention The Balance can amplify the misfortune it redirects, and Yhwach can use Antithesis and Balance together, meaning that Kratos is being hit with over twice the damage of his own attacks.

You know, for some reason, I kinda just assumed Kratos could like
Respawn.
idk, maybe it's just a souls and soulslike thing, but respawn mechanics seem to be getting canonized within their narratives more and more often, and it's resulted in goofy things like P from Lies of P having one of the most busted forms of immortality I've seen to date.

 

[Planck69]

You know, for some reason, I kinda just assumed Kratos could like
Respawn.
idk, maybe it's just a souls and soulslike thing, but respawn mechanics seem to be getting canonized within their narratives more and more often, and it's resulted in goofy things like P from Lies of P having one of the most busted forms of immortality I've seen to date.

He can, just not in this key.

 

[Planck69]

Also, why is the clone stuff gonna matter when Kratos can just directly spawn attacks on Yhwach anyways?

 

[Jin2188]

Would it even work to begin with? With everything else Kratos resists, I would've assumed Probability and Event Manipulation were part of it.

The Sisters of Fate apparently do have Causality Manipulation, but again, looking at the page, I'm not seeing it.

 

[BloodyBloodwork365]

Also, why is the clone stuff gonna matter when Kratos can just directly spawn attacks on Yhwach anyways?

Assuming he can suss out the real one with precog and such, since the clones are quite literally perfect to the point where Gremmy says they're not even technically clones (Though, let's be real, that's 100% flowery language lmao, wtf else would they be?)

 

[Jin2188]

Also, why is the clone stuff gonna matter when Kratos can just directly spawn attacks on Yhwach anyways?

How?

 

[BloodyBloodwork365]

The Sisters of Fate apparently do have Causality Manipulation, but again, looking at the page, I'm not seeing it.

They're based off the Sisters of Fate from Greek Myth, who basically control all of fate, causality, and the events of the world.
The ladies who were gonna kill Hercules in the Disney Movie? IIRC, those were the Sisters of Fate.

 

[BloodyBloodwork365]

How?

Magic?

 

[Planck69]

How?

Charon's Mask can spawn flames directly on their targets.

Honestly, half of this thread seems to have been made with a very outdated image of Kratos in mind cause why are most of the current answers to his abilities just "I don't see it".

 

[Jin2188]

Assuming he can suss out the real one with precog and such, since the clones are quite literally perfect to the point where Gremmy says they're not even technically clones (Though, let's be real, that's 100% flowery language lmao, wtf else would they be?)

Not to mention Yhwach can use fate manip on himself to muddy the waters even more.

 

[BloodyBloodwork365]

Not to mention Yhwach can use fate manip on himself to muddy the waters even more.

Apparently, because Kratos is involved, Yhwach can't see himself in the future anymore.
Actually, that makes me wonder. Yhwach can't see Kratos in the future (I assume), but can Kratos see Yhwach in the future. idk if it's listed, but Yhwach gained Mimihagi's powers, and Mimihagi is the embodiment of stagnation, who was invisible to The Almighty. He shouldn't have a future of his own. While he can see himself in this nonexistent future, can Kratos see it?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Not to mention Yhwach can use fate manip on himself to muddy the waters even more.

He doesn't just resist that, he degrades those abilities to the point they don't work or work wrong.

 

[BloodyBloodwork365]

Anyways, while the Antithesis trick would probably kill Kratos, it would have to work, and I don't think it will.
The Antithesis is manipulating causality, technically. It reverses everything that happened between any two points, and applies the resulting effects with little regard for whether or not the characters should resist whatever's happening to them. Case in point, Senjumaru, who has full control of her Bankai, and yet was trapped in it when Uryu reversed their positions.
As Kratos resists causality manip, he should be safe from The Antithesis.

 

[BloodyBloodwork365]

He doesn't just resist that, he degrades those abilities to the point they don't work or work wrong.

'Degrades' those abilities? This is a new one, and not something I saw when looking through the profile or related pages.
I thought Kratos was just going to ignore the abilities and oneshot Yhwach as if he doesn't have them.

 

[Robo432343]

im gonna request this to be closed

 

[Jin2188]

He doesn't just resist that, he degrades those abilities to the point they don't work or work wrong.

What? Explain this. Yhwach should be able to affect his own future, even if he can't manipulate Kratos's.

 

[Jin2188]

Anyways, while the Antithesis trick would probably kill Kratos, it would have to work, and I don't think it will.
The Antithesis is manipulating causality, technically. It reverses everything that happened between any two points, and applies the resulting effects with little regard for whether or not the characters should resist whatever's happening to them. Case in point, Senjumaru, who has full control of her Bankai, and yet was trapped in it when Uryu reversed their positions.
As Kratos resists causality manip, he should be safe from The Antithesis.

He shouldn't resist Causality manip. I'm going to address that in a CRT.

 

[BloodyBloodwork365]

What? Explain this. Yhwach should be able to affect his own future, even if he can't manipulate Kratos's.

That's what needs explaining? Nowhere on Kratos' profile or related pages is it mentioned that he can 'degrade' abilities, and no one up til that person even mentioned that he can supposedly do this. What does that even mean? How would that even work?

 

[BloodyBloodwork365]

He shouldn't resist Causality manip. I'm going to address that in a CRT.

He resisted the Sisters of Fate, no?

 

[Jin2188]

That's what needs explaining? Nowhere on Kratos' profile or related pages is it mentioned that he can 'degrade' abilities, and no one up til that person even mentioned that he can supposedly do this. What does that even mean? How would that even work?

Yeah I know. I was addressing two points in one. In hindsight, I probably could've worded that better.

 

[Jin2188]

He resisted the Sisters of Fate, no?

Who shouldn't have Causality manip. The "justification" for them having it is literally just a mix of probability and fate manip.

 

[Jin2188]

Anyways, I'm going to bed now. If this thread gets closed while I'm asleep, then so be it, but there's going to be a CRT for Kratos and a staff thread for the CM1 bullshit after this, and then when all that's said and done, a rematch.

 

[Huesito88]

Anyways, I'm going to bed now. If this thread gets closed while I'm asleep, then so be it, but there's going to be a CRT for Kratos and a staff thread for the CM1 bullshit after this, and then when all that's said and done, a rematch.

A staff thread to change the hierarchy of how CM 1 vs CM 2 vs CM 3 is treated?

 

[Jin2188]

A staff thread to change the hierarchy of how CM 1 vs CM 2 vs CM 3 is treated?

Yes.

 

[Planck69]

Closing on account of this being a stomp. And don't bother with a rematch, this is honestly such a dull type of match lol.