Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

[Mbpoops]

ok chat serious question.

where do we scale sw999? she shook the universe which normally would be H3-A but since the universe contains g*nshin... would she be 2-A..? or just 3-C for the time being

or should i just work on a different profile like yao guang or fulwish

 

[Mbpoops]

i spun a wheel h3-A it is

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

i spun a wheel h3-A it is

 

[Scrubforhire]

My only issue is the Irontomb Phainon merge is unclear and is likely talking about power. We see Khaslana's body literally shatter as it's the last thing holding back Irontomb, then Irontomb comes out.

Like I said, I want a 'beyond all doubt we know...' not a 'beyond reasonable doubt we know...' and I feel like that's a fair distinction to make.

Also for the record, I'd rather keep the HE resistance for characters who we know on a feat basis have crossed the Tidal Zones, not just a statement 'they should be able to' - Cornerstone Emanators are weird asf.

I think we can somewhat scale Phainon post WCB as somewhere close but below Irontomb since he physically was capable of sealing the Lord Ravager for a period of time (the period of time is a bit ambiguous cuz either we use Amphorean time and it's like 10000+ years or we use the irl time which was around 11 days according to the war briefing)

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

i spun a wheel h3-A it is

Was about to say make her H3A , until we get more info about her but hey the wheel already did that for me

 

[Mbpoops]

genuienly fine with any tier i just dont know where to put her.. @PedjaTarzan @SuperNova55555 @CastoriceTheFifth @Jackof_noTrades068 help

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Silver Wolf is a peerless gem. Silver Wolf is an unrivaled genius. Silver Wolf is an inimitable beauty.

 

[EddisherSound]

or should i just work on a different profile like yao guang or fulwish

Work on Fulfish first

 

[Scrubforhire]

Anyway as for the whole WCB debacle over whether Phainon is an Emanator or not, I think you can kinda just look at the rating pistol. We know for a fact that the blood melded into his body, and it was later given to Planet Screwllum and the Xianzhou Alliance. However the pistol still rates him as invalid post 3.7, which could imply that he retained the power granted by the blessing (the wiki also suggests this as a possibility for why he is still rated as invalid).

With each patch invalid rating = Emanator is being more and more validated.

You'd have to be delusional to think Luocha isn't an Emanator given that he was capable of stirring the Ambrosial Arbor in Yao Guang's myriad.

Evernight not being invalid is because the pistol can differentiate between entities (e.g. Clara and Svarog, Huohuo and Tail). We know Evernight herself can switch bodies given that she talked about taking Black Swan's dharmakaya, so the person who would have the invalid rating would be March 7th since she is the Pure Child of Anasrava, not Evernight.

Sampgod is likely an Emanator of Elation (unconfirmed) but tbf this guy is like the Kaeya of HSR, they put a bazillion lore hints and never do anything with him (soon trust fr).

And they also JUST hard confirmed Arbiter Generals as Emanators after like 3 years of people desperately trying to find reasons to say that they're not.

We've also got a readable in 4.2 as well that is seemingly referencing Phainon. (Stoneblade's quote)

I think it's pretty reasonable to say that there is more evidence that supports Phainon being an Emanator than not, even if you disagree with classifying him as one.

 

[Mbpoops]

Work on Fulfish first

Yes sir

 

[Doggo]

Ill start elation tb edits soon unless doggo’s crt goes through

I feel like a criminal now

 

[Doggo]

whyt do they all have a 12x multiplier

To explain what Castorice is saying

Basically, Phainon and Cyrene currently have the 12-core flames thing in their justification.

So they get a 12x multiplier from whatever value we perceive 1 Coreflame to be

The issue is Irontomb since we fight him, and TB and DH scaling would lead to a circular chain. Castorice and I were figuring out solutions to it (great thanks to them)

Our ideas are:
1. Castorice = The Heirs got stronger during the Irontomb fight (I then added that there is a moment in the fight where the Heirs say what Paths they follow, which could be when they become Pathstiders of said Path, aka growing stronger)
2. Doggo= Irontomb was holding back due to "self-iterating" so they dont scale to Khaslana (Btw @CastoriceTheFifth I might have a solution for the weight thing you mentioned)

 

[Mbpoops]

To explain what Castorice is saying

Basically, Phainon and Cyrene currently have the 12-core flames thing in their justification.

So they get a 12x multiplier from whatever value we perceive 1 Coreflame to be

The issue is Irontomb since we fight him, and TB and DH scaling would lead to a circular chain. Castorice and I were figuring out solutions to it (great thanks to them)

Our ideas are:
1. Castorice = The Heirs got stronger during the Irontomb fight (I then added that there is a moment in the fight where the Heirs say what Paths they follow, which could be when they become Pathstiders of said Path, aka growing stronger)
2. Doggo= Irontomb was holding back due to "self-iterating" so they dont scale to Khaslana (Btw @CastoriceTheFifth I might have a solution for the weight thing you mentioned)

Theres a few issues with this i said offsite to castorice but basically

lygus scaling

if 1x coreflame = lygus (from the boss fight in 3.5) then it gets circular cause tb gets more coreflames so all emanators would upscale from that (i think i could be wrong maybe they dont get more coreflames) but the emanator upscale goes back to lygus which goes back to 1x so on so forth

so either
A: 2x coreflame = lygus = 304/2 = 152 so 12x coreflame would be like 1824 zettafoe
or
B; lygus = 1/9th emanator

 

[Doggo]

Theres a few issues with this i said offsite to castorice but basically

lygus scaling

if 1x coreflame = lygus (from the boss fight in 3.5) then it gets circular cause tb gets more coreflames so all emanators would upscale from that (i think i could be wrong maybe they dont get more coreflames) but the emanator upscale goes back to lygus which goes back to 1x so on so forth

so either
A: 2x coreflame = lygus = 304/2 = 152 so 12x coreflame would be like 1824 zettafoe
or
B; lygus = 1/9th emanator

We can also just say Zephyro is above other Emanators tho, and Phainon and Cyrene would scale to him, making them above other Emanators.

 

[Mbpoops]

We can also just say Zephyro is above other Emanators tho, and Phainon and Cyrene would scale to him, making them above other Emanators.

yea the issue here is... phainin doesnt scale to zephyro

 

[Doggo]

yea the issue here is... phainin doesnt scale to zephyro

I hate this verse

Kill me boss.

Um ig Phainon>other Emanators now

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

ok chat serious question.

where do we scale sw999? she shook the universe which normally would be H3-A but since the universe contains g*nshin... would she be 2-A..? or just 3-C for the time being

genuienly fine with any tier i just dont know where to put her.. @PedjaTarzan @SuperNova55555 @CastoriceTheFifth @Jackof_noTrades068 help

If you want to be very conservative. We only saw 3 world leaves being shook. Penacony, Herta Space Station and Pier Point.
So this could be treated as just shaking 3 galaxies which would just make her 3-C. For now you can just give her this

Me? i don’t mind just committing to 2-A later, cause it cant be high 3-A since real space is infinite Low 2-C space times (universe shaking is also a justification for 2-A Aeons) thanks to Genshin but you’d need a little more to prove it’s a total universe shake to do this.

 

[Mbpoops]

If you want to be very conservative. We only saw 3 world leaves being shook. Penacony, Herta Space Station and Pier Point.
So this could be treated as just shaking 3 galaxies which would just make her 3-C. For now you can just give her this

Why wouldnt this be 3-B?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Why wouldnt this be 3-B?

Shaking is a lot worse than actually overcoming GBE when you calc it

Shaking the IRL observable universe (albeit only on a magnitude 4 scale) is only really high into 4-A

 

[Mbpoops]

Shaking is a lot worse than actually overcoming GBE when you calc it

Shaking the IRL observable universe (albeit only on a magnitude 4 scale) is only really high into 4-A

4-A silverwolf W

 

[Mbpoops]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Natsuki012/Silver_Wolf_shakes_the_universe

There was also this

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

yea the issue here is... phainin doesnt scale to zephyro

why does he not

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Theres a few issues with this i said offsite to castorice but basically

lygus scaling

if 1x coreflame = lygus (from the boss fight in 3.5) then it gets circular cause tb gets more coreflames so all emanators would upscale from that (i think i could be wrong maybe they dont get more coreflames) but the emanator upscale goes back to lygus which goes back to 1x so on so forth

so either
A: 2x coreflame = lygus = 304/2 = 152 so 12x coreflame would be like 1824 zettafoe
or
B; lygus = 1/9th emanator

We can also just say Zephyro is above other Emanators tho, and Phainon and Cyrene would scale to him, making them above other Emanators.

Yall are overcomplicating the scaling. The scaling is really easy for this. Lygus' AP doesn't change from this or affect other Emanators.

Also Trailblazer doesn't get more coreflames. She has 1 the entire arc. When she loses time then she just gains worldbearing. She just uses time against Lygus.

 

[Voidnether]

Yall are overcomplicating the scaling. The scaling is really easy for this.

Also Trailblazer doesn't get more coreflames. She has 1 the entire arc. When she loses time then she just gains worldbearing. She just uses time against Lygus.

Dms bro

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

2. Doggo= Irontomb was holding back due to "self-iterating" so they dont scale to Khaslana (Btw @CastoriceTheFifth I might have a solution for the weight thing you mentioned)

Doggo, the new key is supposed to explain the reason why they scale to 12 CF Khaslana and Incomplete Irontomb. It doesn't break the scaling and fixes EVERYTHING because their justification/scaling is self contained within this ascended key based on how Recurrences/Scepter works. The Ascended heirs are far superior to the recurrence heirs.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Um ig Phainon>other Emanators now

thats true though for the most part

 

[Eseseso]

Hi, been looking at some of the current concept stuff for HSR, seems to me like it involves universal concepts (especially for Imaginary Energy and Aeon Physiology).

I know CM1 was removed a while back, but wouldn't the universal nature of it still qualify for CM2?

Also, this stuff might be of use:
https://psbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:GZ_Infinity/HoYoverse_Cosmology
https://arenaofthesentry.quora.com/The-Hoyoverse-Cosmology-Part-1-3
https://arenaofthesentry.quora.com/The-Hoyoverse-Cosmology-Part-2-3
https://arenaofthesentry.quora.com/The-Hoyoverse-Cosmology-Final-Part
https://arenaofthesentry.quora.com/THE-INCREDIBLE-POWERS-OF-THE-HONKAI-ITSELF-HOYOVERSE

 

[Voidnether]

Hi, been looking at some of the current concept stuff for HSR, seems to me like it involves universal concepts (especially for Imaginary Energy and Aeon Physiology).

I know CM1 was removed a while back, but wouldn't the universal nature of it still qualify for CM2?

Also, this stuff might be of use:
https://psbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:GZ_Infinity/HoYoverse_Cosmology
https://arenaofthesentry.quora.com/The-Hoyoverse-Cosmology-Part-1-3
https://arenaofthesentry.quora.com/The-Hoyoverse-Cosmology-Part-2-3
https://arenaofthesentry.quora.com/The-Hoyoverse-Cosmology-Final-Part
https://arenaofthesentry.quora.com/THE-INCREDIBLE-POWERS-OF-THE-HONKAI-ITSELF-HOYOVERSE

It should qualify for CM2 honestly. Nova was genuinely on some semantics man, Paths are clearly universal

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

It should qualify for CM2 honestly. Nova was genuinely on some semantics man, Paths are clearly universal

He's said so himself multiple times. I think he'd agree now

 

[Voidnether]

He's said so himself multiple times. I think he'd agree now

About time man

 

[Le'garde273]

You could argue for type 2 at best, but type 1 to come back obviously no no i would say, cause the whole point of irontomb existence story is completely debunk the idea of path being independent concept

 

[Voidnether]

You could argue for type 2 at best, but type 1 to come back obviously no no i would say, cause the whole point of irontomb existence story is completely debunk the idea of path being independent concept

Path of Remembrance is independent from the destruction of the universe though

 

[Le'garde273]

Path of Remembrance is independent from the destruction of the universe though

That's not even how the remembrance work

Finality represent the end of all things, meanwhile the remembrance represent the start of new cycle, carrying the blueprint to create new one. Particularly it's doesn't work/exist until the finality done, so it's not even independent at first place, rather just work differently and opposite of it.

 

[Voidnether]

That's not even how the remembrance work

Finality represent the end of all things, meanwhile the remembrance represent the start of new cycle, carrying the blueprint to create new one. Particularly it's doesn't work/exist until the finality done, so it's not even independent at first place, rather just work differently and opposite of it.

Memories are still independent, come on now, it wasn't affected whatsoever by Irontomb unless you're arguing Irontomb could affect memories..

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Anyway as for the whole WCB debacle over whether Phainon is an Emanator or not, I think you can kinda just look at the rating pistol. We know for a fact that the blood melded into his body, and it was later given to Planet Screwllum and the Xianzhou Alliance. However the pistol still rates him as invalid post 3.7, which could imply that he retained the power granted by the blessing (the wiki also suggests this as a possibility for why he is still rated as invalid).

With each patch invalid rating = Emanator is being more and more validated.

I think it's pretty reasonable to say that there is more evidence that supports Phainon being an Emanator than not, even if you disagree with classifying him as one.

It is pretty reasonable and I personally do agree. I think it's a conversation that needs to be had throughout the verse on how we should decide what we actually want to put forward as an Emanator.

You'd have to be delusional to think Luocha isn't an Emanator given that he was capable of stirring the Ambrosial Arbor in Yao Guang's myriad.

cough cough Luocha is Void Archives cough cough

 

[Le'garde273]

Memories are still independent, come on now, it wasn't affected whatsoever by Irontomb unless you're arguing Irontomb could affect memories..

I don't get what do you mean tbh, i don't know what's the correlation between memories and irontomb in this case that prove the concept was independent, and it's correlation with finality

 

[Scrubforhire]

It is pretty reasonable and I personally do agree. I think it's a conversation that needs to be had throughout the verse on how we should decide what we actually want to put forward as an Emanator.

Like generally speaking I would prefer to ignore the powerscaling and focus purely on the narrative depictions/lore material of a character in regards to whether they are an Emanator or not.

The status of being one alone encompasses a ridiculously broad range of power with lots of different abilities and specializations, even when they are of the same path, which makes comparing their power to another Emanator rather silly because the same Aeon could simply choose to give a piss amount of power to one Emanator while giving another their entire path.

The only time where I would agree with comparing a character's strength to another Emanator as justification or opposition for them being one is if they've directly stated that they are comparable in some shape or form (e.g. Lord Ravagers in relation to one another, Arbiter Generals in relation to one another, etc).

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

The status of being one alone encompasses a ridiculously broad range of power with lots of different abilities and specializations, even when they are of the same path, which makes comparing their power to another Emanator rather silly because the same Aeon could simply choose to give a piss amount of power to one Emanator while giving another their entire path.

The term Emanator practically means nothing now given it ranges from the Cornerstone Emanators (Jade, Aventurine, Etc) to the Arbiter Generals (Who are Emanators through their summons) and then to people like Herta, then SW, Cyrene, Khaslana, Zephyro.

It's getting ridiculous lmao.

The only time where I would agree with comparing a character's strength to another Emanator as justification or opposition for them being one is if they've directly stated that they are comparable in some shape or form (e.g. Lord Ravagers in relation to one another, Arbiter Generals in relation to one another, etc).

Yeah, or a direct conflict where the two characters are comparable, etc. Would much rather go off of feats like this.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

I don't get what do you mean tbh, i don't know what's the correlation between memories and irontomb in this case that prove the concept was independent, and it's correlation with finality

when the universe was destroyed, memories were unaffected as cyrene could still see them float about around. which were memories of the universe.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

The term Emanator practically means nothing now given it ranges from the Cornerstone Emanators (Jade, Aventurine, Etc) to the Arbiter Generals (Who are Emanators through their summons) and then to people like Herta, then SW, Cyrene, Khaslana, Zephyro.

i mean the generals are reasonable since they are possessed by the spirits anyway. idk who is seriously proposing cornerstore emanators though... thats crazy