regenerating from past, present, and future erasure

[Cipher72]

Did he stutter ?

 

[Hecky2222]

seems blatant Ac5 for Zamasu

Agree fra through @Vietthai96

 

[Robo432343]

Zamasu's HGR should be changed to resistance to history EE . If Zamasu had HGR why would he need to use Mai as a shield??? Why is he struggling to regenerate against Goku's Hakai??

@Vietthai96 what do u think

 

[Vietthai96]

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Zamasu's HGR should be changed to resistance to history EE . If Zamasu had HGR why would he need to use Mai as a shield??? Why is he struggling to regenerate against Goku's Hakai??

@Vietthai96 what do u think

And why wouldn’t this be evidence that Hakai can negate High-Godly Regeneration instead?

 

[Hecky2222]

And why wouldn’t this be evidence that Hakai can negate High-Godly Regeneration instead?

seems thread worthy. Agree fra through @Vietthai96 and @Robo432343

 

[Vietthai96]

Robo vs Lord Azerty gonna be the match of the century

 

[Cipher72]

Robo vs Lord Azerty gonna be the match of the century

Does Goku chainscale to that ?

 

[Vietthai96]

Goku can only solo fiction, Lord Azerty and Robo are real so......

 

[Hecky2222]

I am demoting Viet to normal user for not believing Goku can solo non fiction

 

[Apotheosis69]

So what is even goin on now?

 

[Tanin_iver]

So what is even goin on now?

@Robo432343 vs @Azertyhuuh ?

 

[Tanin_iver]

No, type 1 users are only immune to changes in the past, temporal paradoxes are about affecting the present through the past, not the future affecting the present or anything else, at least afaik, so I'm not sure where you were going with that

Temporal Paradoxes are not limited to just changes in the past affecting the present, lol. It can very well be the future affecting the past too like in causal loops where the paradox is what even is the origin if it keeps looping. Take for example The Terminator franchise where John basically sends his own father to the past to conceive him with Sarah or Skynet being built with the Tech salvaged from the T-800 that it itself sent in the past. Or even the movie Predestination where the protagonist is his/her own child, father and mother too and even more which I don't wanna spoil. A prime example of Bootstrap Paradox. I hope this helps.

I think that erasing all of history would also lead to the erasure of a character’s concept and information, because they are removed across the entirety of history. This would make them completely nonexistent, as if they had never existed—even within the story or work itself.

Your concept or information cannot exist if you yourself never existed in the first place.

Your concept and information begin only with the start of your existence. If you are erased from all of history, then you never existed to begin with—you were never even born. Therefore, your concept and information would not exist either, because you do not exist at all.

This isn't necessarily true. What if the character is the Concept of History itself? Can History erasure erase its own Concept?
Or what if all the Concepts in the Verse are eternal or even independent from History itself, always existed and immutable?

What if the verse's History is recorded as the the set of all events in the Information Space and only manipulating the Information allows you to manipulate History?
Then wouldn't Information supersede and encompass History in that verse?

See now, Metaphysical Aspect Hierarchy can depend on context and differ a lot verse by verse.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Temporal Paradoxes are not limited to just changes in the past affecting the present, lol. It can very well be the future affecting the past too like in causal loops where the paradox is what even is the origin if it keeps looping. Take for example The Terminator franchise where John basically sends his own father to the past to conceive him with Sarah or Skynet being built with the Tech salvaged from the T-800 that it itself sent in the past. Or even the movie Predestination where the protagonist is his/her own child, father and mother too and even more which I don't wanna spoil. A prime example of Bootstrap Paradox. I hope this helps.

Well yeah ig you're right, though the John example is of affecting the present or future through the past. But that would make sense yeah

 

[Mythic381]

I thought this was a QnA thread, not a discussion thread.

 

[Robo432343]

we are comparing history regen

Regeneration (High Godly; Came back from getting erased by the book of destiny, which contains the past, present, and future of creation, including every detail of a person's history.)

Regeneration (High, up to High-Godly: Via Eternal Atoms, high-rank beings can reconstruct/regenerate on Material, Astral and Conceptual level. Eternal Atoms also act as the Book of Fate, recording one's existence throughout The Law of Cause and Effect, allowing them to perfectly regenerate from the space-time/historical as well as any other less abstract erasure than their concepts type 1)

Regeneration (High-Godly [History]; As an immortal granted by Super Shenron, Beerus stated that Hakai wouldn't kill him. Hakai can completely erase one's body, soul, and even entire universes along with their individual histories, including multiple space-time continuums, so they cannot resurrect)

 

[Vietthai96]

Take for example The Terminator franchise where John basically sends his own father to the past to conceive him with Sarah or Skynet being built with the Tech salvaged from the T-800 that it itself sent in the past. Or even the movie Predestination where the protagonist is his/her own child, father and mother too and even more which I don't wanna spoil. A prime example of Bootstrap Paradox. I hope this helps.

Bro what? This isn't about future affecting the past because in these cases, the "future" esstentially is your past.

 

[Hecky2222]

@Vietthai96 Btw if I regenerate only from Past Erasure would it be History Regen or Causality Regen

 

[Vietthai96]

@Vietthai96 Btw if I regenerate only from Past Erasure would it be History Regen or Causality Regen

If the Past erasure also delete you across all point across in time, and regen from that is still History HGR. Remember that you need to be totally gone from the entire history like you never even exist in the first place

 

[Hecky2222]

If the Past erasure also delete you across all point across in time, and regen from that is still History HGR. Remember that you need to be totally gone from the entire history like you never even exist in the first place

Yes but what if like character has Causality Manipulation(Attacks straight into Past), and some character can regenerate from it. I suppose in context probably there are infinite timelines(Maybe). But attack in question includes only attacking your past.

Would it be HGR? If no what regen it would be

 

[Robo432343]

No, it has to be past, present, and future



our regen standards for history is so bad

 

[Hecky2222]

No, it has to be past, present, and future

if your past is erased your present and future should be gone too unless you are acausal. I am js asking if History EE is exactly erasure across all time or past erasure Regen still HGR

 

[Tanin_iver]

the "future" esstentially is your past

Thank you, you answered it yourself and discovered the obvious paradox, that the timeline is a time circle with no true or definite origin.

 

[Vietthai96]

Yes but what if like character has Causality Manipulation(Attacks straight into Past), and some character can regenerate from it. I suppose in context probably there are infinite timelines(Maybe). But attack in question includes only attacking your past.

Would it be HGR? If no what regen it would be

Did the attack erase a portiom of your past, or it just damaging your pastself?. This is important

our regen standards for history is so bad

It is not about the standard being bad, but it is about that the standard only account for general situation, it didn't account for, nor included weird regeneration feats. For example you have character who can't regen physical body erasure but can't regen soul erasure, Godly regen standard don't account for such feat

 

[Cipher72]

It is not about the standard being bad, but it is about that the standard only account for general situation

Ok so if I understand correctly, History as a fundamental aspect is the aspect of your past i.e what was, that past is responsible for you as in what you are (present) and what you will be (future). Nuking your "History" is essentially nuking what made you who you are now and what's responsible for you i.e erasing the very records of your past which shaped your being. Your future and present self is nuked because your past self got nuked. Causality Manipulation is more specific whereas History Erasure is more AOE in a sense but both if used to erase your past results in your present and your future selves consequently being erased and regeneration from that is deemed HGR ?

 

[Hecky2222]

Did the attack erase a portiom of your past, or it just damaging your pastself?. This is important

it erases my past rather than damaging my pastself

 

[Shar122]

do you think we should have a page for history as a metaphysical aspect?


Narrative, information, and concept all have pages but not history

History itself is interlinked with causality and it includes it as it's backbone (which is a metaphysical aspect) so Yes.
It's under the umbrella of causality
(If history includes fate and the future then yeah, that too)

 

[Robo432343]

looks like history being a metaphysical aspect was rejected here

i guess history is an exception

 

[Vietthai96]

do you think we should have a page for history as a metaphysical aspect?

I vaguely remember someone already discussed about this in a thread in the past and it was rejected. But anyway, history isn't by default, a metaphysic. History is tied to causality, but causality isn't always about metaphysic, it is hard to explain. And while it is a fundamental aspect that constitutes your existence, it isn't metaphysic. Of course fiction verse can establish it that way but by default, it isn't

Ok so if I understand correctly, History as a fundamental aspect is the aspect of your past i.e what was, that past is responsible for you as in what you are (present) and what you will be (future). Nuking your "History" is essentially nuking what made you who you are now and what's responsible for you i.e erasing the very records of your past which shaped your being

This is correct

Your future and present self is nuked because your past self got nuked. Causality Manipulation is more specific whereas History Erasure is more AOE in a sense but both if used to erase your past results in your present and your future selves consequently being erased and regeneration from that is deemed HGR ?

Because when your past self is nuked, what made you who you are now is nukes, thus your present self is nuked. In turn your future self also is nukes because your present self which is what make your future self is nuked. So chain reaction from your past self getting nuked, your present and future also getting nuked along as well. That constitute your past, present and future all getting nuked which equally you gettimg history erased, regen from it is still HGR, though this excludes weird situations where

1. Only a portion of your past getting erased and not all of it, from the time you starting to exist. For example, you were born in 1990 and now is 2026, and your opponent only erase a portion of your past which is from 1995 to 2000, you still getting affected from your past getting erased but since the erasure only cover 1995 to 2000, the portion from 1990 to 1995 still exist, so you essentially still exist from these time period, regen from this kind of erasure would not be HGR and must be a weird regen feat

2. The verse didn't follow Eternalism where all of your past, present and future equally physically existing, that mean it follow Presentism where your past fade away and your future is not determined yet, only the present is actually existing. There gonna be no history erasure in this kind of verse because no history to even erase

looks like history being a metaphysical aspect was rejected here

i guess history is an exception

Yeah you can't assume it to be metaphysic because it is a weird subject

 

[Hecky2222]

looks like history being a metaphysical aspect was rejected here

i guess history is an exception

Robo never fails to make laugh with his comments

Never leave this forum

 

[Hecky2222]

Because when your past self is nuked, what made you who you are now is nukes, thus your present self is nuked. In turn your future self also is nukes because your present self which is what make your future self is nuked. So chain reaction from your past self getting nuked, your present and future also getting nuked along as well. That constitute your past, present and future all getting nuked which equally you gettimg history erased, regen from it is still HGR, though this excludes weird situations where

Yeah but how do we treat then erasures that erases all time?

Past getting erased obviously means your present and future dies by causality chain.

But what if I am Acausal in sense I exist only in present? I suppose then erasure from past doesn't affect me. But I am asking that cuz some existence erasures I have seen includes past-present-future as History EE. I suppose I can't resist that even I am Acausal.

My point is that. If some History EEs erase you from all time rather than erasing via chain reaction(Your past is erased hence present future too) I guess we have History metaphysical aspect being different in fiction and not all history EEs same?

 

[Vietthai96]

Yeah but how do we treat then erasures that erases all time?

Still history erasure, time and history are overlaps. Unless the verse specifically separate two things

But what if I am Acausal in sense I exist only in present? I suppose then erasure from past doesn't affect me. But I am asking that cuz some existence erasures I have seen includes past-present-future as History EE. I suppose I can't resist that even I am Acausal.

The past, and present and the future erasure is textbook history erasure

You still have your present self which will still get erased, since history erasure means erasure across all points in time, the past, the present and the future. Unless you are referring to weird past erasure or future erasure, which definitely do not affect you since you are lacking those things

Yeah you can't being acausal by default to not save you from History EE, unless the verse itself establish such thing, but that mean the acausal gave you EE resistance

My point is that. If some History EEs erase you from all time rather than erasing via chain reaction(Your past is erased hence present future too) I guess we have History metaphysical aspect being different in fiction and not all history EEs same?

No, history EE is all the same, history being metaphysics or not is irrelevant, because history EE is defined as, you erase someone or something from history entirely, make them like they never exist in the history in the first place

 

[Cipher72]

My point is that. If some History EEs erase you from all time

History Erasure doesn't directly erases you from "all of time". It achieves such indirectly.

History is the study, record, and interpretation of past events

Erasing History only erases your past your future and present selves are erased indirectly because your present and future selves are contingent on the existence of your past self.
---
Think of it like time travel, If I killed you before you were born your present self would cease to exist but I didn't kill your present self (directly)
--
Something like this
I erase (t-5) that means any further moments in time contingent on (t-5) also gets erased or well becomes undetermined which includes [(t), (t-3), (t+5), (t+67)....]

But what if I am Acausal in sense I exist only in present? I suppose then erasure from past doesn't affect me.

It will unless you are completely independent from any and all relation to your past self (like you can survive the literal destruction of your timeline or something)

But I am asking that cuz some existence erasures I have seen includes past-present-future as History EE.

Yes that's what History EE entails, if you erase the literal past, the entire timeline gets erased now it depends on what you did with History EE so case by case basis.

 

[Hecky2222]

History Erasure doesn't directly erases you from "all of time". It achieves such indirectly

Yeah but there are verses from what I see which erases you from all time without retroactively chain reaction.

It will unless you are completely independent from any and all relation to your past self (like you can survive the literal destruction of your timeline or something)

Acausality Type 1,2 is being unaffected by changes of past. If History in question covers erasure of past only(And past causality kills me in present and future) , then I shouldn't die to begin with because I am independent from Past Self.

But what I am asking here is. Some of History Erasure straight up directly erases you from present, past, future at same time. Hence not even Ac2, Ac1 would save me.

You still have your present self which will still get erased, since history erasure means erasure across all points in time, the past, the present and the future. Unless you are referring to weird past erasure or future erasure, which definitely do not affect you since you are lacking those things

Yep and my point is that if past erasure causes that via chainscaling(Past erased -> Present and Future should be too), me getting unaffected by past changes(Acausality) should save me. Unless History from what I understood should directly erase all points of time at same time(not past only)

 

[Vietthai96]

Based on our wiki standard, history erasure entails the erasure of all points in time, across the past, the present and the future, it is default assumption unless show otherwise

 

[Hecky2222]

history erasure entails the erasure of all points in time, across the past, the present and the future

I feel like i am not being clear here

So erasing past alone is "Causality Erasure" from what i get(Causality kills past -> Via Past killed, present and future will die too logically). But this doesn't bypass Acausal beings since they lack past

History Erasure is Erasing all points in time in sense, it is erasing all points of time(present, past, future) at same time rather than being caused by chain(Past only erased, with that present and future will be erased too). Thus Acausality alone doesn't help unless character in question has resistance also.

Is that right or I am missing something?

 

[Arency]

So erasing a timeline Space-time EE and History EE?

 

[Vietthai96]

So erasing past alone is "Causality Erasure" from what i get(Causality kills past -> Via Past killed, present and future will die too logically). But this doesn't bypass Acausal beings since they lack past

yeah, that is the point of acausality but for types 1 and 2. Though type 4 needs to show what it give you

History Erasure is Erasing all points in time in sense, it is erasing all points of time(present, past, future) at same time rather than being caused by chain(Past only erased, with that present and future will be erased too). Thus Acausality alone doesn't help unless character in question has resistance also.

yeah

So erasing a timeline Space-time EE and History EE?

Timeline erasure is history erasure unless the verse establish something out of the ordinary.

space-time erasure? It depends; you can erase a portion of space-time manifold but not history itself, unless space-time in question referring to actual timeline

 

[Shar122]

I feel like i am not being clear here

So erasing past alone is "Causality Erasure" from what i get(Causality kills past -> Via Past killed, present and future will die too logically). But this doesn't bypass Acausal beings since they lack past

History Erasure is Erasing all points in time in sense, it is erasing all points of time(present, past, future) at same time rather than being caused by chain(Past only erased, with that present and future will be erased too). Thus Acausality alone doesn't help unless character in question has resistance also.

Is that right or I am missing something?

Causality doesn't strictly mean past, It just means cause and effect, which is also tied to the flow events (depends on the verse)
Event (1) leads to another Event (2) that's causality in notion.

If You're erasing someone from the causal chains themselves completely (in a strict dependcy system), it may affect them across temporal states.

Also it depends, if you're only erasing him from a specific snapshot in the past? Like the past itself is a broad anchor, it seems like a EE with a wide range (a.i.e you can target someone as a specific time index) which may or not lead to causation of retroactive propagation, So whether this counts as “causality erasure” depends on how you define this ability.

Depends on the acausality what the beings possess with, if it's type 1 then they still have a past, but they would be unaffected to temporal paradoxes in most cases (they still have a past tho), if it's type 2, which they have no past, nor future, they only exist in the present, it may not affect them if you erase their past.
Viet answered pretty much the rest.

 

[Robo432343]

so causality regen is pretty much the same thing as history regen right