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Strip away and it is generally portrayed as a destructive force in its raw state
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regenerating from past, present, and future erasure
- Thread starter Robo432343
- Start date
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If that is indeed just like deleting and erasing it. Than it would be Information-Based (Type 2) Fate Erasure, since its From Fundamental Informtion
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But does this also imply History erasure especially since this informational block also makes up Space-Time and causality?
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I mean, History Erasure pretty much is Acausality Type 1 Negation
Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,784
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fair enough lol
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Depends on contexts
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In this case, may I ask your evaluation on my thread featuring this?
Tanin_iver
He/Him- 1,075
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There is no Negation happening tho? Only Aca 1 should be generally resistant to that. Higher potency or other reasons might bypass that tho.
AlipheeseXIV
He/Him- 3,348
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It doesn't literally negate it, he meant that by technicality history erasure circumvents acaus 1, which it does, as type 1 only stops the character from being affected in the present through the past, but does not stop them from being affected in other points in time. Only powerful type 3/4 users (or type 5 obv) are exceptions to that
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Because Aca 1 can't cover you from getting erased across all points in the past, present ans future. It is the limitation of the ability
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I wonder, if History is Past, Present AND Future. Does that make a "Fate Erasure" aspect, redundant/pointless?
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Depends on how the verse itself present it. It could be an ability that erase your fate, which leading into an effect that you will disappear in future due to your future is no more, no more literal future mean you are dead, turn into nothing. Or you could still alive, but with your written future erased and ehmm, you don't have a future anymore, which in turn could lead to alot of thing
Tanin_iver
He/Him- 1,075
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Why not? Isn't Type 1 for Temporal Paradox Immunity in general?
Wouldn't a character also still possess his Type 1 Acausality in the future unless that ability itself is negated?
And even if he gets erased in the future he will still exist in the present no?
Only thing is the character will need EE resistance for the present & future and Aca 1 to deal with past shenanigans, no?
Type 2 also can resist it more or less as they don't exist in future and past only the present and if present resists erasure then it doesn't even matter.
Type 3 characters just exists in different versions in different timelines/universes and if the History erasure has range to affect them all then yeah Type 3 can be circumvented.
Type 4 is Irregular so it depends on context.
Type 5 would be totally immune, imo.
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The character could still survive, but not via their Type 1 Acausality, because Type 1 characters can still be affected by attacks in the present. In other words, they simply lack a cause-and-effect relationship between their past and present selves. Since the erasure of history simultaneously affects both their past and present selves, the character cannot resist it unless they possess some other specific form of resistance
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Once again, Type 2 cannot resist with its AC2 ability because AC2 characters remain vulnerable to the present unless another ability indicates otherwise. They no longer have a cause-and-effect relationship between their past and present selves, nor between their future and present selves; therefore, they cannot resist history erasure through their Type 2 acausality nature alone.
As for Type 3, it depends on the verse. If the verse's history is based on a single timeline, then Type 3 is useless here. However, if there are multiple timelines, then erasing the character from the past, present, and future won't matter, since by their very nature they are independent of a single timeline.
This also cannot affect an AC4 character unless the character first demonstrates a feat showing they can affect an AC4, as they literally do not operate under the same principle of causality. The same applies to Type 5 acausality
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Hmm, no, "negation" is a bit too much; it’s not exactly a form of negation. To have a negation of AC1, you would instead have to strip the character of that AC1 property—essentially forcing a cause-and-effect relationship between their past and present selves. That way, if you attack them in the past, they would suffer the effects in the present.
It’s the same principle as Type 1 Immortality: killing someone with Type 1 Immortality isn't "negation." Instead, you would have to make it so that the person can die of natural causes, meaning they are stripped of their eternal life. It’s the same logic for AC1 here.
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I think that erasing all of history would also lead to the erasure of a character’s concept and information, because they are removed across the entirety of history. This would make them completely nonexistent, as if they had never existed—even within the story or work itself.
Your concept or information cannot exist if you yourself never existed in the first place.
Your concept and information begin only with the start of your existence. If you are erased from all of history, then you never existed to begin with—you were never even born. Therefore, your concept and information would not exist either, because you do not exist at all.
As an example, it’s like how Goku does not exist in the world of Bleach. Goku isn’t present there, so his concept, information, and existence are all absent from Bleach. Bleach Because he doesn’t exist in that world, none of his aspects exist there either.
The same idea applies here: if you are erased from all of history, then you never existed in the first place, and there is no such thing as your concept or information, because you never were.
Your concept or information cannot exist if you yourself never existed in the first place.
Your concept and information begin only with the start of your existence. If you are erased from all of history, then you never existed to begin with—you were never even born. Therefore, your concept and information would not exist either, because you do not exist at all.
As an example, it’s like how Goku does not exist in the world of Bleach. Goku isn’t present there, so his concept, information, and existence are all absent from Bleach. Bleach Because he doesn’t exist in that world, none of his aspects exist there either.
The same idea applies here: if you are erased from all of history, then you never existed in the first place, and there is no such thing as your concept or information, because you never were.
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Yes, that’s correct.
Tanin_iver
He/Him- 1,075
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Yeah, ik. And I pointed out the specifics.
You seem to somehow miss out the specifics.
Depends on context as to what History is according to that Aca 4 and if the opponent would also have feats of affecting History of that specific Type of Aca 4, is kind of what I meant.
AlipheeseXIV
He/Him- 3,348
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No, type 1 users are only immune to changes in the past, temporal paradoxes are about affecting the present through the past, not the future affecting the present or anything else, at least afaik, so I'm not sure where you were going with that
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Now this is NLF. History can't erase concept, information, plot unless verse shows interaction between metaphysical aspects
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- Thread starter
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are we really saying erasing the universe means you have high godly history regen neg? thats what zamasu's profile kinda implies...
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It doesn't say in profile but it technically does neg
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well there isn't an actual scan of zamasu regenerating from past present and future erasure
its based on assumptions and i dont like assumptions
its based on assumptions and i dont like assumptions
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its like saying Alien X should have high godly regen neg because he can erase the universe
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?. When was Zamasu even have HGR neg???
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- Thread starter
- #68
????
no one said zamasu has HGR neg
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I don’t mean that history itself directly erases the concept; rather, that would be a secondary consequence of erasing history—like affecting one thing, which then leads to effects on other things as a result.
If you are erased from all of history, then you never existed in the first place. Your concept wouldn’t exist because you don’t exist. That’s simply a byproduct of historical erasure. How could your concept exist if you never existed? How can there be a concept of something that never existed to begin with? Isn’t that a contradiction?
It’s as if you’re assuming the existence of something that doesn’t exist. The concept begins when your existence begins—when you exist, your concept exists. It is tied to the start of your existence. If you are completely erased from history, then you were never born and never existed from the start, and therefore there is no such thing as your concept because you do not exist.
This is not an NLF fallacy; it’s simply logic. If you have any refutation, then it would be better to present it. What you’re doing now is trying to ignore reality because acknowledging it could significantly scale many characters. So you’re attempting to disregard logic and reality itself to prevent this large upgrade, which should logically follow. If there is any evidence that refutes this, it would be better to present it instead of making such assumptions and imposing fallacies on things you don’t want to accept. That, in itself, is a fallacy of fallacy.
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History removal doesn’t matter if the setting has hypertimelines because from the higher timeline PoV 4-D history erasure is a fixed point in time
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- Thread starter
- #72
Zamasu's profile is basically saying Hakai can erase the past present and future because it can erase the universe
but if we use this logic then literally anyone who can erase the universe have History EE
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Pretty sure Dragon Ball Universes accepted as History.
Also it probably was badly wording. Robo didn't mean they can negate HGR but rather asking if you need HGR to regen from Hakai I think
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- #74
any universe has a history (past present future) unless specified otherwise no???
yes
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Hakai can erase the entire space-time continuum universe which includes its entire past, present and future. That is history EE. Our wiki follow Eternalism which mean the past, present and the future are equally physically existing across space-time continuum, and DB did show that as Time Ring user can travelling to the future of specific universe, like Gowasu using the time ring to travel to his own universe future and back
And of course as Hecky said, each universe is stated to have history
And of course as Hecky said, each universe is stated to have history
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Bro you have to prove how history can erase concept in first place. It is literally definition of NLF. This is trying to justify Historical Erasure can interact with information, concept that governs reality
With this weird logic I can put concept above history also since definition sometimes if they are independent goes above present past future.
Literally Pochita in ur face who erases concept and history gets ee'd as side effect.
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It is stated in Super Shenron’s profile that he is capable of granting high godly regeneration (history).
Therefore, Zamasu should possess high godly regeneration since Super Shenron is the one who granted it to him.
Likewise, Zeno should possess negation of high godly regeneration, as a result of completely erasing Zamasu.
Zamasu was able to return even after being completely destroyed by Trunks’ sword, which was infused with spiritual energy from all beings. Despite that, Zamasu still managed to come back from erasure.
Since Super Shenron grants immortality and high godly regeneration, he granted Zamasu high godly regeneration, and as a result, Zamasu returned in that manner even after being erased.
I believe Zamasu should be given high godly regeneration granted by Super Shenron, and Zeno should have high godly regeneration negation.
He should also possess NEP Type 1, along with the other necessary aspects in the end, because he merged with everything, including the super timeline. This would include the world of void and dimensions that lack space-time, which are currently accepted as NEP Type 1.
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- Thread starter
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If Zeno erased Zamasu across past present future then how come people still remember zamasu
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- Age Manipulation, Immortality & Regeneration (Types 1, 2, 3 & Up to High-Godly [History]; Comparable to other Eternal Dragons capable of granting these types of immortality,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Shenron_(Anime)#cite_note-DB135-32"><span>[</span>32<span>]</span></a> possessing lifespan-manipulation abilities that allow rejuvenation by several years,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Shenron_(Anime)#cite_note-DBSBM-19"><span>[</span>19<span>]</span></a> and having granted Zamasu immortality and regenerative abilities<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Shenron_(Anime)#cite_note-DBS57-33"><span>[</span></a>
It is stated that Shenron is capable of granting High-Godly regeneration, therefore Zamasu should possess this type of regeneration, especially since he returned even after being erased from all existence by Trunks. Zeno ultimately erased him completely, so he should also possess negation of High-Godly regeneration in his profile.
World of Void
- Nonexistent Physiology (Nature【Type 1】& Aspects【Type 5;〈Space-Time & History〉】) and Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 1)
Subspace
- Nonexistent Physiology (Nature【Type 1】; Aspects【Types 2〈Concepts〉& 5〈Space-Time & History〉】) and Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 1)
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