Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Sus]

gotta reread every raga fight ngl

 

[Qurbonboev]

tell gege dabura is thousands of time stronger than sukuna and they would laugh

Would it be louder than laughter he would made if you told him that 20F Sukuna is hundred times stronger than 16F Sukuna?

 

[Sus]

Would it be louder than laughter he would made if you told him that 20F Sukuna is hundred times stronger than 16F Sukuna?

i don't think either of the statements is true soo

 

[Qurbonboev]

i don't think either of the statements is true soo

Do you have strong concrete args against it?

 

[Sus]

Do you have strong concrete args against it?

im purely talking about in-verse

i couldn't care less if the verse is tier 8 or tier 6, i just know the gap between characters is not in the thousands

as for concrete arguments there is no arguments for either sides ngl, all we have is a few statements

 

[Rodriiogo]

So you're saying if someone holds back and punches maho with 50% of their power, maho will only adapt to that 50% and not their 100% ?

I mean yea it's kinda obvious that he can't adapt to brute force he never even got attacked by, but if you want two examples:

• Even after Mahoraga had already adapted to 15F Sukuna's physicals and dismantles alongside sent him flying, a single cleave split Mahoraga in half and would have one shotted him if he hadn't adapted to slashing attacks as a whole, Sukuna should scale to his own cleaves physically way better than Maho did as proven by Gojo VS Sukuna where Gojo (comparable to Sukuna physically) was taking cleaves from shrine after his simple domain broke, and he still kept fighting when not using RCT.

• Gojo's hollow purple kills Mahoraga, doesn't kill Sukuna, this despite him being adapted enough to damage Gojo (comparable to Sukuna), red (2x stronger than Gojo), blue and infinity alongside defending Sukuna from Black Flashes from Gojo:

Mahoraga's adaption FULLY relies on what he took. If he adapted to X and if you hit him with Y which he didn't adapt to, even if Y has the same potency as X, aslong as X had the potency to one shot to begin with, he will still get one shotted despite being adapted to X, because Y ain't X. It's why cleave could have still one shotted Mahoraga in Shibuya if he had only adapted to Sukuna's physicals and not slashing attacks.

 

[Qurbonboev]

as for concrete arguments there is no arguments for either sides ngl, all we have is a few statements

You know what else has similar situation?

 

[Rodriiogo]

Would it be louder than laughter he would made if you told him that 20F Sukuna is hundred times stronger than 16F Sukuna?

Way more reasonable than Dabura being thousands of times stronger considering 10% of 16F Sukuna was already stronger than Awakened Maki and Rage Amped CG Yuji both of which are stronger than Jogo who is already comparable to 5F Sukuna. (If you don't get the issue, this means 16F Sukuna is bare minimum 10x stronger than his 5F self, "5*10" would be 50, so if you go by linear scaling even low balling how much fingers awakened maki and cg yuji are compared to Jogo who is 5F, 16F Meguna would already be "50F level" lmao) alongside the fact that you must be completely insane if you think Sukuna was only at like "1/4" of his power in Shinjuku Post the gojo fight. Dude even after he got utterly jumped by everyone, at the end of the fight he was still above awakened yuji who is above basically everyone in the verse. Do you think he was only 1/4 there at the end with EVERYTTHHIINNG he took on the entirety of shinjuku? Lmao.

 

[Sus]

You know what else has similar situation?

what?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Way more reasonable than Dabura being thousands of times stronger considering 10% of 16F Sukuna was already stronger than Awakened Maki and Rage Amped CG Yuji both of which are stronger than Jogo who is already comparable to 5F Sukuna.

His physicals weren't nerfed as much as his CT output, and even then his CT output only fell below 10% at its WORST. Maki is comparable to Ryu who tanked a FP 16F Dismantle.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

If all the Mahoragas start out at the same level of strength and then Gege specifies Yuka's Mahoraga became the strongest out of them because of his prolonged fight against Dabura, does that not just mean that Mahoraga will grow stronger as it adapts.

correct, just like i thought he could for years now but now it's confirmed

 

[Zabazab]

Yes Gege thinks Dabura ≈ Sukuna and he thinks 1 Finger = 5% of Sukuna's power. But for the former, I guarantee he also thinks sub-light kick one-shots Sukuna. And for the latter, JJK would just be the millionth example of an author displaying fractions and multipliers incorrectly (See: Gohan bullying Cell with a 2x amp).

 

[Sus]

Yes Gege thinks Dabura ≈ Sukuna and he thinks 1 Finger = 5% of Sukuna's power. But for the former, I guarantee he also thinks sub-light kick one-shots Sukuna. And for the latter, JJK would just be the millionth example of an author displaying fractions and multipliers incorrectly (See: Gohan bullying Cell with a 2x amp).

well we are not scaling sukuna to daburas kick, just like we don't scale him to red or gojo to fuga

sukuna = dabura physically no techniques involved

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

ding ding ding! Right on, sus

 

[Sus]

why is the forum lagging so hard today

 

[Rodriiogo]

His physicals weren't nerfed as much as his CT output, and even then his CT output only fell below 10% at its WORST. Maki is comparable to Ryu who tanked a FP 16F Dismantle.

Megumi was nerfing his CE output. That includes his physicals, Sukuna was fighting on "10%" Physicals here as well (and he notes that it gets even worse everytime he tries to hurt Megumi's friends aka Maki and Yuji), it was affecting literally EVERYTHING. Why do you think he couldn't blitz them despite being able to blitz Ryu who is comparable to them? Talking about Ryu now, for him scaling to the dismantles, as I just showed above, Sukuna scales relative to his own cleaves physically at the same amount of fingers... as for ryu vs cleaves...

I'd also like to point out what Sukuna says this by the way:

For even further proof that his dismantles can get stronger. Despite Kusakabe's Simple Domain being able to block MULTIPLE HAND SIGN AMPED dismantles with even less damage than Ryu took and even fully counter them back once Sukuna gets weaker (he was still stronger than everyone else here btw lmao), he still says a point-blank dismantle would not only deal damage but INSTANT DEATH that "no amount of cursed energy reinforcement, domain amplification, or simple domains" can stop.

So now I will ask if you think Sukuna can one shot himself with point blank dismantles and cleaves despite what u saw in the Gojo fight and you will then realise that Ryu isn't really a good example.

The gap between Gojo and Sukuna and the entire verse is indeed massive, and 15/16F Sukuna is ten times above everyone else quite easily.

 

[Zabazab]

well we are not scaling sukuna to daburas kick

I also don't think Dabura's KE while going sub-light should scale to his durability at all, which is where I have some friction with Dabura's indexing (unless that got rejected, I haven't been following). I think Sukuna, Dabura, and Gojo should all have similar physicals.

 

[Rodriiogo]

I also don't think Dabura's KE while going sub-light should scale to his durability at all, which is where I have some friction with Dabura's indexing (unless that got rejected, I haven't been following). I think Sukuna, Dabura, and Gojo should all have similar physicals.

Confused on how you think that while thinking they are comparable the entire time. If Dabura didn't get more durable during the acceleration (Correct) then it'd mean they scale to the sub-light KE, if he did get more durable then the idea of them having "similar physicals" is gone. You can only think one or the other as they contradict eachother.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Way more reasonable than Dabura being thousands of times stronger

No, it's not. Dabura being thousands times stronger than Sukuna doesn't break story at all. 20F Sukuna being several times stronger than 16F Sukuna would call into question either Gojo intellect, or Six Eyes abilities(tf do you think Gojo would do against 16F Sukuna if he felt that he isn't relative to him?)

(If you don't get the issue, this means 16F Sukuna is bare minimum 10x stronger than his 5F self, "5*10" would be 50, so if you go by linear scaling even low balling how much fingers awakened maki and cg yuji are compared to Jogo who is 5F, 16F Meguna would already be "50F level" lmao) alongside the fact that you must be completely insane if you think Sukuna was only at like "1/4" of his power in Shinjuku Post the gojo fight.

Why are you assuming that I believe in linear scaling of fingers at all? I am just saying that 16F Sukuna isn't intended to be massively weaker than 20F Sukuna or Gojo(with all potential problem that it would entail for scaling).

 

[Sus]

Megumi was nerfing his CE output. That includes his physicals, Sukuna was fighting on "10%" Physicals here as well (and he notes that it gets even worse everytime he tries to hurt Megumi's friends aka Maki and Yuji), it was affecting literally EVERYTHING. Why do you think he couldn't blitz them despite being able to blitz Ryu who is comparable to them? Talking about Ryu now, for him scaling to the dismantles, as I just showed above, Sukuna scales relative to his own cleaves physically at the same amount of fingers... as for ryu vs cleaves...

I'd also like to point out what Sukuna says this by the way:

For even further proof that his dismantles can get stronger. Despite Kusakabe's Simple Domain being able to block MULTIPLE HAND SIGN AMPED dismantles with even less damage than Ryu took and even fully counter them back once Sukuna gets weaker (he was still stronger than everyone else here btw lmao), he still says a point-blank dismantle would not only deal damage but INSTANT DEATH that "no amount of cursed energy reinforcement, domain amplification, or simple domains" can stop.

So now I will ask if you think Sukuna can one shot himself with point blank dismantles and cleaves despite what u saw in the Gojo fight and you will then realise that Ryu isn't really a good example.

The gap between Gojo and Sukuna and the entire verse is indeed massive, and 15/16F Sukuna is ten times above everyone else quite easily.

someone who reads the manga thoroughly

 

[Sus]

I also don't think Dabura's KE while going sub-light should scale to his durability at all, which is where I have some friction with Dabura's indexing (unless that got rejected, I haven't been following). I think Sukuna, Dabura, and Gojo should all have similar physicals.

imo dabura and sukuna are slightly physically stronger than gojo but gojo compensates with blue

sukuna is frankly the slowest of the three since he doesn't have a speed boosting technique

 

[Sus]

I also don't think Dabura's KE while going sub-light should scale to his durability at all

this is a cross verse issue that i really dont care about, but i think it should scale

 

[Qurbonboev]

I also don't think Dabura's KE while going sub-light should scale to his durability at all, which is where I have some friction with Dabura's indexing (unless that got rejected, I haven't been following). I think Sukuna, Dabura, and Gojo should all have similar physicals.

Staff accepted that his durability would scale to hus KE, which is Island level.

Finally, verse have someone who isn't victim of town level explosion

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Megumi was nerfing his CE output. That includes his physicals, Sukuna was fighting on "10%" Physicals here as well (and he notes that it gets even worse everytime he tries to hurt Megumi's friends aka Maki and Yuji), it was affecting literally EVERYTHING.

He was affected in general, but he is specific about the CT output drop being the main thing. There's a reason Sukuna's individual Dismantles can't do much to Yuji despite him being physically superior still.

Why do you think he couldn't blitz them despite being able to blitz Ryu who is comparable to them? Talking about Ryu now, for him scaling to the dismantles, as I just showed above, Sukuna scales relative to his own cleaves physically at the same amount of fingers... as for ryu vs cleaves...

16F Sukuna is definitely stronger than Ryu, I never disagreed with that. All I'm saying is that Ryu's durability downscales from his FP Dismantle, which is certainly in the same weight class as his physicals, so it's illogical for 16F physicals to be 10x above someone relative to Ryu. Although that wouldn't be the case either way, cause again, Sukuna says it's below 10% at WORST. We don't know what his average CT output is.

I'd also like to point out what Sukuna says this by the way:

For even further proof that his dismantles can get stronger. Despite Kusakabe's Simple Domain being able to block MULTIPLE HAND SIGN AMPED dismantles with even less damage than Ryu took and even fully counter them back once Sukuna gets weaker (he was still stronger than everyone else here btw lmao), he still says a point-blank dismantle would not only deal damage but INSTANT DEATH that "no amount of cursed energy reinforcement, domain amplification, or simple domains" can stop.

So now I will ask if you think Sukuna can one shot himself with point blank dismantles and cleaves despite what u saw in the Gojo fight and you will then realise that Ryu isn't really a good example.

Uh, Ryu did take a point blank Dismantle so I'm not sure what the point of this whole tangent is. Sukuna saying he won't hold back is obviously in reference to him using his weaker slash attack when he was at a range to use Cleave.

The gap between Gojo and Sukuna and the entire verse is indeed massive, and 15/16F Sukuna is ten times above everyone else quite easily.

No

 

[Rodriiogo]

No, it's not. Dabura being thousands times stronger than Sukuna doesn't break story at all.

The narrative is still part of what the "story" is by the way, he can't be sukuna level and thousands of times stronger than Sukuna at the same time.

20F Sukuna being several times stronger than 16F Sukuna would call into question either Gojo intellect, or Six Eyes abilities(tf do you think Gojo would do against 16F Sukuna if he felt that he isn't relative to him?)
Why are you assuming that I believe in linear scaling of fingers at all? I am just saying that 16F Sukuna isn't intended to be massively weaker than 20F Sukuna or Gojo(with all potential problem that it would entail for scaling).

For the first part, It's called a character flaw, and for the second part of it, let's put our thinking caps on what I just said. Sukuna by eating 10 fingers got BARE MINIMUM EXTREMELY LOW BALLED 10x stronger according to the story and gege. Do you think the last 5 fingers decided to just not work anymore and only buffed him like 1.5x? Not even 5x? 5x would already make the character flaw evident btw.

 

[Zabazab]

You can only think one or the other as they contradict eachother.

They only contradict eachother if you believe that Dabura running around was a durability feat. Since I do not, there is no contradiction. That is all.

sukuna is frankly the slowest of the three since he doesn't have a speed boosting technique

I'd say this is accurate. But I also think Sukuna may be the fastest when excluding techniques. Naturally with techniques, both Gojo and Dabura can blitz him.

 

[Sus]

am i the only one whose the forum shuts down for?? like this happened at least 10 times today wtf

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

it does that for me too

 

[Qurbonboev]

They only contradict eachother if you believe that Dabura running around was a durability feat

But running around with high speed is Dura feat irl (aks any engineers who is making supersonic vehicles). And Gege knows about this. Curse Naoya making a binding vow to increase his durability to withstand Mach 3 speed for example.

he can't be sukuna level

Is there anybody who said he is Sukuna level in physicals? I only remember talks about him being Sukuna level threat, which is very different thing in our particular case.

Sukuna by eating 10 fingers got BARE MINIMUM EXTREMELY LOW BALLED 10x

Sukuna: At my worst I have 10% output
You: He is stronger than Maki at least 10x times.
Regardless, I really don't care about 16F scaling now. Maybe in another time, but rn I am more concerned about Sukuna to Dabura scaling

 

[Sus]

But running around with high speed is Dura feat irl (aks any engineers who is making supersonic vehicles). And Gege knows about this. Curse Naoya making a binding vow to increase his durability to withstand Mach 3 speed for example.


Is there anybody who said he is Sukuna level in physicals? I only remember talks about him being Sukuna level threat, which is very different thing in our particular case.


Sukuna: At my worst I have 10% output
You: He is stronger than Maki at least 10x times.
Regardless, I really don't care about 16F scaling now. Maybe in another time, but rn I am more concerned about Sukuna to Dabura scaling

this is genuinely a non issue in-verse

its only suddenly an issue because not everyone can downscale from tier 6

 

[Rodriiogo]

He was affected in general, but he is specific about the CT output drop being the main thing. There's a reason Sukuna's individual Dismantles can't do much to Yuji despite him being physically superior still.

His CT is being affected even more yes everytime he goes to hit them because megumi's resistance gets even stronger. But that doesn't change the fact that his cursed energy output is already at 10% even without him harming them and cursed energy output refers to everything and is, once again, why he can't blitz them despite being able to when at 100%. You're acting like one statement erases the other.

16F Sukuna is definitely stronger than Ryu, I never disagreed with that. All I'm saying is that Ryu's durability downscales from his FP Dismantle, which is certainly in the same weight class as his physicals, so it's illogical for 16F physicals to be 10x above someone relative to Ryu.

Except it logically (sadly for my fellow Jane Juliet enjoyers, I also believed in this before but dont anymore) can not be a FP dismantle. If you want even further proof of this:

• Heres a sukuna WAAAY weaker than his 16F self doing extreme damage to Shinjuku Awakened Maki with his dismantles from a long distance after a black flash (note that this literally takes maki out of the fight)

​

• Heres Shinjuku Yuji considering the dismantle rain from a Sukuna also way weaker than his 16F self as something that would have killed him if he didn't have RCT.

This not even touching on the fact that Sukuna was not interested in Ryu, which would affect his output to begin with.

Also we see that not even attacks 2.5x stronger than an opponent relative to you can one shot the other (Black Flash), if Sukuna scales to his cleave, which can one shot Ryu, it is indeed not crazy to say he can be that much stronger and the rest is stacked up to how he uses his attacks and his cursed energy wavering.

The other part was simply to prove to you that dismantles can get stronger.

 

[Rodriiogo]

They only contradict eachother if you believe that Dabura running around was a durability feat. Since I do not, there is no contradiction. That is all.

Weird but whatev ig

Is there anybody who said he is Sukuna level in physicals? I only remember talks about him being Sukuna level threat, which is very different thing in our particular case.

They are talking about his cursed energy output as that's what they can feel and measure. That relates to physicals/AP entirely, and even if you don't believe that, what the hell do you think they mean? Dabura never did a light-speed kick so they cant be talking about its DC unless someone there had future sight, they are talking about either dabura's physical, ce output or attacks, and if it is attacks then it doesnt matter regardless because as I said, CE output and Sukuna scales to his own attacks.

Sukuna: At my worst I have 10% output
You: He is stronger than Maki at least 10x times.

At his worst he was still dogwalking both of them together so yes, or did you forget the part where he was getting JUMPED by both?

Regardless, I really don't care about 16F scaling now. Maybe in another time, but rn I am more concerned about Sukuna to Dabura scaling

Then don't mention it? I just answered and told you that 20F Sukuna being hundred times stronger is indeed more probable than Dabura scaling thousands of times stronger than Sukuna (im not saying 20F IS hundreds of times stronger than his 15F self but it literally has more stuff supporting it and makes more sense than Dabura's headcanon galore)

 

[Mommyleona]

Btw, Staff already agreed to Dabura being thousands times stronger than Sukuna.

Staff are wrong very often

 

[Sus]

genuinely no one scales to sukuna at all except obviously gojo

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Btw, Staff already agreed to Dabura being thousands times stronger than Sukuna.

Staff thoughts can be countered

 

[Rodriiogo]

genuinely no one scales to sukuna at all except obviously gojo

Other than Gojo, 15F Sukuna puts the entire verse together (No Modulo) on a headlock even if they jump him at the same time.

 

[Sus]

sukuna does admit that he couldn't kill ryu without cleave, but you have to note that :

- sukuna wanted to go after yorozu, he wanted to finish ryu very fast (he even considered sparing him) so he obviously could slaughter ryu with a rain of dismantles but he chose the easier quicker route of cleave

- ryu is more durable than yuta and yuji according to sukuna

 

[Mommyleona]

Other than Gojo, 15F Sukuna puts the entire verse together (No Modulo) on a headlock even if they jump him at the same time.

Tengen + Takaba + Yuki highkey win

 

[Rodriiogo]

sukuna does admit that he couldn't kill ryu without cleave, but you have to note that :

- sukuna wanted to go after yorozu, he wanted to finish ryu very fast (he even considered sparing him) so he obviously could slaughter ryu with a rain of dismantles but he chose the easier quicker route of cleave

- ryu is more durable than yuta and yuji according to sukuna

The funniest part about it is Yuji himself thinking Sukuna is wrong considering he says the Dismantle Rain would have killed him if he didn't have RCT

Tengen + Takaba + Yuki highkey win

Fair enough, I should have clarified no suicide blackhole strats

 

[Sus]

how is this even a discussion?

how do you see ryu SHAKING AND SWEATING OF FEAR because of sukuna, and think he isn't far off from him in stats?