Pokemon: Infinity and gimmicks

[Arceus0x]

I updated my comment, Original Series Ash should now scale to High 6-A, though idk what other Pokemon of Ash's (Kanto and Johto) would scale to that Charizard feat of matching Moltres

Fine by me, but Charizard isn't some out of the ordinary mon for Ash. The strongest Pokemon he has like Pikachu should absolutely scale.

It just says 10 lightning strikes worth of energy. That would make it 16 billion joules which is very low, so I don't think that should be brought up if you're upgrading Pokemon that are above Tier 8

Even without that the fact that Mega Evo is supposed to be above evolution in general makes it consistent. Farigiraf is 10x stronger than it's pre-evolution Girafarig just as an example. Again, 10x difference. If we have 2 statements that support explicit 10x damage boosts and then the surpassing of evolution, it should count.

 

[Arceus0x]

You're just strawmanning now. At no point did I say Pikachu didn't scale.

I misunderstood cause that's what I got from what you were saying, SD suggesting Pikachu is High 6-A with volt tackle only threw me off.

I simply brought up context that could be added to Pikachu's profile. It would be misleading to say he just scales to Regice, without mentioning that the only thing that did meaningful damage was Volt Tackle.

It's explicitly mentioned that Pikachu's iron tail did do damage and was a noticeable hit. The thunderbolt also broke Pikachu out of the ice and clearly stopped Regice for a bit.

Otherwise people would think a Thunderbolt from Pikachu would be equal in power to the Regis

Other than Regigigas, I think it's at least comparable, especially considering what I brought up about Torkoal

Regice's main High 6-A justification is scaling to Regigigas actually. The Groudon and Kyogre thing is fine

Weird, gotta change that. It was supposed to be that they can hold back the power of the two fighting.

 

[SomebodyData]

The fact that there's 2 already suggests that that's the standard

No, that is definitely not enough to establish a standard.

Except that's literally the way he attacks in his mega.
Anytime he uses a physical move he relies specifically on his mega evovled jaws

Completely irrelevant - the pokedex entry is comparing it to his own jaws, not his pre-mega jaws. It is completely unrelated.

Literally unrelated to the mega scaling dawg, please re-read this

Although, re-reading the justification, it really makes no sense to argue the 20x multiplier applies to all other Z-Moves and (2) it isn't even a 20x AP boost in this example, attacking someone 20x over in one move is not 20x an AP boost.

Which suggests that it shoots out, you know, 10x more electricity with attacks like Thunder and thunderbolt, which again, you know, are singular electric attacks.
This disproves nothing.

Due to a genetic feature not present in any other Mega Pokemon - that is actually proof that Mega evolution is not inherently a one and done multiplier.

 

[Arceus0x]

No, that is definitely not enough to establish a standard.

It's a very clear multiplier used twice whilst others just don't have a multiplier at all. I don't see why this is an issue.

Completely irrelevant - the pokedex entry is comparing it to his own jaws, not his pre-mega jaws. It is completely unrelated.

No, it's absolutely not irrelevant. He only unleashes these attacks with his fake jaws and not his real ones, meaning that regardless his attack would increase 10x as his main form of attack is biting. You're fully ignoring Mega Elektross too. His 10x electric output isn't related to his new limbs at all, it just something he inherently has. If we ignored this multiplier we'd basically be suggesting that 2 random megas are 10x above the other megas, which is wrong.

Although, re-reading the justification, it really makes no sense to argue the 20x multiplier applies to all other Z-Moves and (2) it isn't even a 20x AP boost in this example, attacking someone 20x over in one move is not 20x an AP boost.

You're gonna have to re-read it again because I literally explain that the attack isn't just 20x the same attack, it is 20x the arrows hitting the opponent AND THEN exploding simultaneously, the part that deals the damage.
Additionally, most Z-moves are depicted to be around equal unless they're done by a stronger opponent or a legendary. In this case, we have a z-move that is used by a Pokemon that is a starter, so he'd be comparable to other Pokemon.

Due to a genetic feature not present in any other Mega Pokemon - that is actually proof that Mega evolution is not inherently a one and done multiplier.

What are you even on about? Generating electricity is present in just Elektross??? No??
Raichu outright has electricity build up inside him
"When its electricity builds, its muscles are stimulated, and it becomes more aggressive than usual."
And Elektross' electric buildup is not related to the physical changes he experiences.
"It now generates 10 times the electricity it did before Mega Evolving. It discharges this electricity from its false Eelektrik, which are made of mucus."

They're very clearly separate things. The fact that we have two mega Pokemon that have an inherent 10x multiplier in attack power is a clear indicator of overall power increase and capability for energy release, unless you're suggesting Elektross is the one electric type mega that just one-shots everyone.

 

[SomebodyData]

It's a very clear multiplier used twice whilst others just don't have a multiplier at all. I don't see why this is an issue.

It appeared twice but in wildly different contexts; both of which are exclusive to each mega evolution.

No, it's absolutely not irrelevant. He only unleashes these attacks with his fake jaws and not his real ones, meaning that regardless his attack would increase 10x as his main form of attack is biting. You're fully ignoring Mega Elektross too. His 10x electric output isn't related to his new limbs at all, it just something he inherently has. If we ignored this multiplier we'd basically be suggesting that 2 random megas are 10x above the other megas, which is wrong.

Again, it is 10x as his own Mega form, not his base Feraligator form.

It literally says it comes from its new limbs "It now generates 10 times the electricity it did before Mega Evolving. It discharges this electricity from its false Eelektrik, which are made of mucus."

You're gonna have to re-read it again because I literally explain that the attack isn't just 20x the same attack, it is 20x the arrows hitting the opponent AND THEN exploding simultaneously, the part that deals the damage.
Additionally, most Z-moves are depicted to be around equal unless they're done by a stronger opponent or a legendary. In this case, we have a z-move that is used by a Pokemon that is a starter, so he'd be comparable to other Pokemon.

The 20x the same attack debacle is just semantics atp

You cannot base the multiplier for a whole subset of moves based on one example- it's just not done in this wiki, unless it was specifically stated to be the standard.

What are you even on about? Generating electricity is present in just Elektross??? No??
Raichu outright has electricity build up inside him
"When its electricity builds, its muscles are stimulated, and it becomes more aggressive than usual."
And Elektross' electric buildup is not related to the physical changes he experiences.
"It now generates 10 times the electricity it did before Mega Evolving. It discharges this electricity from its false Eelektrik, which are made of mucus."

I'm confused on how you don't see the contradiction in these two statements right here.

They're very clearly separate things. The fact that we have two mega Pokemon that have an inherent 10x multiplier in attack power is a clear indicator of overall power increase and capability for energy release, unless you're suggesting Elektross is the one electric type mega that just one-shots everyone.

No, I'm just saying we don't have a definitive multiplier. It's not that deep.

 

[Arceus0x]

It appeared twice but in wildly different contexts; both of which are exclusive to each mega evolution.

Sure, but mega evos should be generally equal to each other if they are done by fully evolved Pokemon. This is further supported by Mega Pokemon and +Moves (which are powered by mega energy) being the only thing that can do notable damage to Rouge Mega Pokemon in Z-A

Again, it is 10x as his own Mega form, not his base Feraligator form.

Which he uses to unleash Moves, something he doesn't do with his normal Jaws in this form at all.

It literally says it comes from its new limbs "It now generates 10 times the electricity it did before Mega Evolving. It discharges this electricity from its false Eelektrik, which are made of mucus."

No it doesn't? It DISCHARGES this electricity, not GENERATES. Wildly different things.

The 20x the same attack debacle is just semantics atp

No it's not at all. It's 20 arrows hitting and then all simultaneously exploding, not 20 arrows just hitting 1 by 1.

You cannot base the multiplier for a whole subset of moves based on one example- it's just not done in this wiki, unless it was specifically stated to be the standard.

It at the very least should scale to other Starter Pokemon's signature z-moves since they're meant to be equal

I'm confused on how you don't see the contradiction in these two statements right here.

I don't see how you see a contradiction in the first place when 10x is a different sentence altogether and talks about electricity GENERATION whilst the mucus limbs are literally just extra cannons with no indication that they affect anything at all.

No, I'm just saying we don't have a definitive multiplier. It's not that deep.

And I think you're misunderstanding something that should otherwise be rather obvious

 

[SomebodyData]

Sure, but mega evos should be generally equal to each other if they are done by fully evolved Pokemon. This is further supported by Mega Pokemon and +Moves (which are powered by mega energy) being the only thing that can do notable damage to Rouge Mega Pokemon in Z-A

I swear there was a recent thread talking about how we shouldn't immediately assume something applies to all users of a certain form / physiology, unless specifically stated to be so. I'll see if I can find it since it'll put this to rest hopefully.

Which he uses to unleash Moves, something he doesn't do with his normal Jaws in this form at all.

I understand that, but you have to read the dex entry, this isn't a comparison to his normal jaws in his base form. You cannot use this multiplier to compare to his regular form because it is not mentioned here.

No it doesn't? It DISCHARGES this electricity, not GENERATES. Wildly different things.

He attacks through discharging the energy. His AP would be based on this discharge. Which is done through the limbs.

No it's not at all. It's 20 arrows hitting and then all simultaneously exploding, not 20 arrows just hitting 1 by 1.

To get my point across more clearly, what is the AP of the individual arrow in the Z-Move?

It at the very least should scale to other Starter Pokemon's signature z-moves since they're meant to be equal

You haven't provided this scan yet, but again taking you at your word. You're arguing that Z-Moves provide a 20x multiplier based on an attack that only gets that multiplier because it basically combines 20 attacks into one. The nature of the attack of the attack is just not comparable to other Z-Moves.

I don't see how you see a contradiction in the first place when 10x is a different sentence altogether and talks about electricity GENERATION whilst the mucus limbs are literally just extra cannons with no indication that they affect anything at all.

And I think you're misunderstanding something that should otherwise be rather obvious

How does it attack? Through the generation of electricity or it is by discharging its electricity?

 

[Arceus0x]

I swear there was a recent thread talking about how we shouldn't immediately assume something applies to all users of a certain form / physiology, unless specifically stated to be so. I'll see if I can find it since it'll put this to rest hopefully.

The difference here is that this transformation is inherently necessary to deal with similar transformations

Meaning they are relative in power, especially considering +moves (which use mega energy) also have a similar effect

I understand that, but you have to read the dex entry, this isn't a comparison to his normal jaws in his base form. You cannot use this multiplier to compare to his regular form because it is not mentioned here.

It's simple. His base form uses his mouth to use bite attacks. His mega evolution gives up on that and uses the giant mouth to bite instead. The important thing here isn't what part of the body scales to what but what he uses to unleash moves as moves are the thing Pokemon use to attack 95% of the time

He attacks through discharging the energy. His AP would be based on this discharge. Which is done through the limbs.

And? Nothing is said about his limbs. If I expelled water out of my mouth but then grew a hose on my arm to shoot water, it would not affect the generation of water inside of me. The same goes here. They're not related at all.

To get my point across more clearly, what is the AP of the individual arrow in the Z-Move?

6-C. It is Decidueye's signature move and deals damage specifically when it explodes

You haven't provided this scan yet, but again taking you at your word. You're arguing that Z-Moves provide a 20x multiplier based on an attack that only gets that multiplier because it basically combines 20 attacks into one. The nature of the attack of the attack is just not comparable to other Z-Moves.

The nature of the attack is based on the fact that it relies on z energy that all z-moves use. The same energy can be used to power up existing moves instead as well. Sinister arrow raid's energy source would be the same if Decidueye used any other z-move available to it.

Z-Move

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

How does it attack? Through the generation of electricity or it is by discharging its electricity?

It generates electricity and then it discharges it at the opponents with moves like...you know...discharge.
The mucus limbs are there to facilitate the release of electricity, nothing suggests that they are responsible for increasing the output.
Other Pokemon like Elektrike and its evolution Manectric also store electricity and then discharge it
"It stores static electricity in its fur for discharging. This Pokémon's whole body gives off sparks if a storm approaches."
"It discharges electricity from its mane. The Pokémon creates a thundercloud overhead from which to drop lightning bolts."
"Mega Evolution fills its body with a tremendous amount of electricity, but it's too much for Manectric to fully control."

 

[SomebodyData]

The difference here is that this transformation is inherently necessary to deal with similar transformations

Meaning they are relative in power, especially considering +moves (which use mega energy) also have a similar effect

I'm not disagreeing they're relatively close to each other, but to have an exact multiplier requires different standards to be fulfilled, that's all.

It's simple. His base form uses his mouth to use bite attacks. His mega evolution gives up on that and uses the giant mouth to bite instead. The important thing here isn't what part of the body scales to what but what he uses to unleash moves as moves are the thing Pokemon use to attack 95% of the time

I know that- again, the issue is the 10x multiplier specifically does not mention regular Feraligator. To make this more clear, please look at the scaling:

Mega Feraligator Artificial Jaws >10x> Mega Feraligator Normal Jaws > Normal Feraligator Jaws

This isn't even mentioning the fact that the multiplier only applies to his artificial jaws and not to Mega Feraligator's regular AP.

And? Nothing is said about his limbs. If I expelled water out of my mouth but then grew a hose on my arm to shoot water, it would not affect the generation of water inside of me. The same goes here. They're not related at all.

If you had an arm hose, I'm pretty sure the AP of the arm hose would be significantly different than just spitting at people.

6-C. It is Decidueye's signature move and deals damage specifically when it explodes

The nature of the attack is based on the fact that it relies on z energy that all z-moves use. The same energy can be used to power up existing moves instead as well. Sinister arrow raid's energy source would be the same if Decidueye used any other z-move available to it.

Z-Move

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

The nature of the attack is attacking with multiple arrows exploding at once. That's the point. This is not the same for most Z-Moves. The AP of the individual arrow is not 20x. That's the point I'm making.

It generates electricity and then it discharges it at the opponents with moves like...you know...discharge.
The mucus limbs are there to facilitate the release of electricity, nothing suggests that they are responsible for increasing the output.
Other Pokemon like Elektrike and its evolution Manectric also store electricity and then discharge it
"It stores static electricity in its fur for discharging. This Pokémon's whole body gives off sparks if a storm approaches."
"It discharges electricity from its mane. The Pokémon creates a thundercloud overhead from which to drop lightning bolts."
"Mega Evolution fills its body with a tremendous amount of electricity, but it's too much for Manectric to fully control."

Your AP is not based on how much energy you can generate and store, but on how much you can discharge / use at once. That's it. Otherwise, we would have High 3-A DBZ androids for example.

 

[Arceus0x]

I'm not disagreeing they're relatively close to each other, but to have an exact multiplier requires different standards to be fulfilled, that's all.

They should still be comparable regardless. I do agree that they aren't inherently the exact same but it's clearly meant to be around 10x with either a bit more or a bit less, otherwise one mega would be stomping the rest.

I know that- again, the issue is the 10x multiplier specifically does not mention regular Feraligator. To make this more clear, please look at the scaling:

Mega Feraligator Artificial Jaws >10x> Mega Feraligator Normal Jaws > Normal Feraligator Jaws

This isn't even mentioning the fact that the multiplier only applies to his artificial jaws and not to Mega Feraligator's regular AP.

This is where you're losing the point. See, I get the scaling, but you're not getting the main thing - these jaws are used to unleash moves, not the regular jaws. The only thing that matters here is what the regular jaws can do if they are no longer used to unleash moves, and moves are the basis of the whole scaling.

If you had an arm hose, I'm pretty sure the AP of the arm hose would be significantly different than just spitting at people.

Not a fact at all, maybe I spit hard, Elektross certainly does.

The nature of the attack is attacking with multiple arrows exploding at once. That's the point. This is not the same for most Z-Moves. The AP of the individual arrow is not 20x. That's the point I'm making.

I agree, but I am not trying to say that the individual arrow is 20x, rather that since the energy of the z-move can create and explode 20 arrows, it should be similar to other z-moves as well.

Your AP is not based on how much energy you can generate and store, but on how much you can discharge / use at once. That's it. Otherwise, we would have High 3-A DBZ androids for example.

The point is, there's no indication he stores it. He generates electricity and then immediately discharges it, similarly to how Mega Manetric does. This is further supported by the fact that it has a specific move made to store electricity for the next attack - Charge, which is separate from the generated electricity it uses.

 

[Mr._Propeller_Hat]

I suppose these is fine, Low 1-C Pikachu is quite a surprise though

 

[SlendVeny]

Which suggests that it shoots out, you know, 10x more electricity with attacks like Thunder and thunderbolt, which again, you know, are singular electric attacks.
This disproves nothing.

You would have to willfully misinterpret what I am saying to not get it. I am obviously saying all of the megas do not have huge mucus arms.

 

[SlendVeny]

But let's look into your reasoning. "It's saying Mega Feraligatr Big Jaws = 10x Mega Feraligatr Small Jaws, so everything about every Mega's AP is 10x."

Unless your argument is that they each only have 1 aspect enhanced that much, I don't see any statements about Mega Feraligatr punching 10x harder, for instance, or Mega Eelektross' Flamethrower or Knock Off hitting 10x harder.

 

[Arceus0x]

But let's look into your reasoning. "It's saying Mega Feraligatr Big Jaws = 10x Mega Feraligatr Small Jaws, so everything about every Mega's AP is 10x."

Unless your argument is that they each only have 1 aspect enhanced that much, I don't see any statements about Mega Feraligatr punching 10x harder, for instance, or Mega Eelektross' Flamethrower or Knock Off hitting 10x harder.

You again ignore my point. What matters here is what they use to unleash moves. Feraligatr uses his fake jaws to unleash moves and mega Elektross uses his built up electricity to discharge opponents. Both have attacks they specify in and can fight each other with those moves and tank those moves. We also know from Z-A that mega moves are all boosted to a similar extent as all function like +moves in battle.
In short, what matters here is the moves.

 

[SlendVeny]

You again ignore my point. What matters here is what they use to unleash moves. Feraligatr uses his fake jaws to unleash moves and mega Elektross uses his built up electricity to discharge opponents. Both have attacks they specify in and can fight each other with those moves and tank those moves. We also know from Z-A that mega moves are all boosted to a similar extent as all function like +moves in battle.
In short, what matters here is the moves.

Yes, but if we're using game mechanics as the primary argument, it's important to note that the games don't use a 10x amp.

 

[Arceus0x]

Yes, but if we're using game mechanics as the primary argument, it's important to note that the games don't use a 10x amp.

I am absolutely not talking about game mechanics here.

Plus Move

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Plus moves are used by gathering out and unleashing mega energy, all mega moves being powered by mega energy. Mega Power is a canonical part of the game.
Plus moves are also acknowledged in canon.

 

[Arceus0x]

Anyways I've said my piece. Idk what restrictions my country's putting up again but shit's been loading way too slow today so I think I'm just gonna hit the bed and hope I can still open the wiki tomorrow lmao.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think SomebodyData is making sense.

 

[Arceus0x]

I think SomebodyData is making sense.

I'll be remaking the thread later down the line with more evidence. Since nobody disagreed with High 3-A and Pikachu changes, is it okay if I apply them?

 

[SlendVeny]

I am absolutely not talking about game mechanics here.

Plus Move

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Plus moves are used by gathering out and unleashing mega energy, all mega moves being powered by mega energy. Mega Power is a canonical part of the game.
Plus moves are also acknowledged in canon.

So are they canonically a 10x amp or what

 

[Arceus0x]

So are they canonically a 10x amp or what

Yes. Mega evolutions are a 10x amp as seen through the pokedex entries and Plus Moves use the same energy as Mega Evolution to deliver blows on a similar level (Like how mega slowbro's defenses are so high we are told that we need plus moves and mega evolution to go through them).

Either way I will probably just remake the thread with more properly organized evidence.

I suppose these is fine, Low 1-C Pikachu is quite a surprise though

since nobody disagrees with the anime scaling and the high 3-A stuff, would it be fine for me to apply that?

 

[SlendVeny]

Yes. Mega evolutions are a 10x amp as seen through the pokedex entries and Plus Moves use the same energy as Mega Evolution to deliver blows on a similar level (Like how mega slowbro's defenses are so high we are told that we need plus moves and mega evolution to go through them).

Either way I will probably just remake the thread with more properly organized evidence.

This would be good to do. I think more evidence is necessary, but yeah, you can throw in a lot of support stuff. Obviously we already have the >2x amps we give for upscaling off mons with Thick Club, Huge Power, Pure Power, etc, and 10 IS more than 2. Obviously there's also "Evolution that transcends evolution" bit I suppose.

A bunch of support info of dubious quality for the sheer degree of Mega Evolution's amp that might be helpful(I have nothing else to do):

Spoiler

-That bit from the manga where it takes an active toll on the body to use that much power or whatever(something that only happened previously with the use of the
link with the Regi trio)
-Mega Venusaur can take "just about any attack" indicating a significant durability amp.
-Mega Charizard X has "overwhelming power" that's the reason behind the active altering of its "entire body" and its flames are, yknow, a different kind of flame
because they burn so much hotter.
-Mega Charizard Y is "in a league of its own" in flight capabilities, but that's not a huge deal idk.
-Mega Blastoise has a possible implication that regular Blastoise couldn't handle the recoil from the big cannon. The big cannon is also both of the regular ones fused
together and further enhanced by the ability to fire "Mega Energy"(This might be Mega Launcher but it's from the LGPE site so there were no abilities in the game,
could just be the lore reason it has the ability tho idk), so it has the >2x amp plus the 2 lil hand cannons. One could also use the fact that its range goes from "over
160ft" to "Over 6 miles" as an example of the increased capabilities of its cannon.
-Alakazam is a special case. Ignore Alakazam. Alakazam's physical capabilities become dogshit and get converted into raw psychic power, so it's got 2 different amps in
there. But it is said to "end battles in a heartbeat."
-Mega Gengar was said to be "In the Top Tier of all Pokemon" on the XY website
-If someone brings up Mega Kangaskhan as a counterpoint, the mother does get a full-on amp, it's based on like emotional shit because she's so happy about her kid
idk.
-Mega Pinsir can lift an opponent 10x heavier than itself and still fly around easily. This is 5x more than its typical "easily lift an opponent 2x heavier than itself"
statements, despite its weight increase, and flying is, obviously, harder than walking.
-Mega Gyarados is taking damage from the burden the increased power places on its body.
-Aerodactyl, imagined to have been an ancient "King of the Skies" is incomplete in its base form. Its Mega Form is its true state, but with excess power that causes
active pain. It also gets hard. Freaky. Its attack is enough to "take control of a battle in a single blow".
-Mega Mewtwo Y's power has grown "phenomenally" and is seemingly also physically stronger despite the decrease in size. We also just have Mewtwo going from
like Tier 5 to Tier 3 on here already, so idfk. Mega Evolution also increases its "focus" and the site says "it will probably be unstoppable" lol.(bro didn't know what a
Restricted Format is."
-Mega Scizor sustains so much of a toll on its body from the energy that it's constantly overflowing, it grows weak quickly, and its body starts to melt. Despite this, an
enemy caught by it has "no hope of getting away."
-Heracross can effortlessly lift and throw 100x its own weight. Mega Heracross can lift 500x its own weight by gripping them with its two horns. It also, on Mega
Evolving, experiences a "tremendous influx of energy" that's enough to deplete its stamina after the Mega Evolution is done, partially because it has to develop vents
due to how much heat it produces internally.
-Mega Houndoom's flames go from "Causing burns that will hurt forever due to the toxins" implying a person can survive it to "turning its opponents to charcoal." It
also has such significant heat that even Houndoom ITSELF is taking damage from its internal temperature, causing its claws and tail to literally melt.
-Mega Tyranitar received so much power its back got ripped open, no one knows if it can even hear, and it powers itself through sheer hate. It can also further increase
its power with energy from those red bits.
-Blaziken has the "Sharpness of its moves" doubled and subdues opponents in the blink of an eye. A blitz amp? Perhaps. X and Y site refers to it as an "awe-inspiring
opponent," ORAS site says it's "unstoppable" when it starts ramping up.
-Mega Gardevoir had a pretty similar amp to Mega Charizard X in the anime iirc, being like pretty comparable to Base Greninja in base and comparable to Ash-Greninja
in Mega, I forget tho.
-Mawile goes from "chewing through iron beams" to "crushing boulders into dust"
-Mega Medicham's mental power is referred to as "limitless" so it's more than nothing. It's also referred to as a "force of devastating power."
-Mega Manectric's got too much electricity to control, which irritates it.
-Mega Banette gets so much more powerful that it can't contain it with the zipper it and curses its own trainer.
-Mega Absol's aura becomes so strong that it instantly kills fainthearted people who look at it, and it can "snatch up victory in a heartbeat."
-Mega Latios is "among the top tier of all Pokémon in terms of aerial combat capability."
-Mega Garchomp is "a Pokemon whose every blow you can count on." It goes crazy but that's because it's mad about its arms being stupid now.
-Mega Lucario has "Previously unimaginable power." The power also actively affects its psychology, making it ruthless. An example can be seen when Korrina's Lucario
goes berserk off raw power in the anime, a common condition for Mega Pokemon. Korrina's Lucario also often grows incredibly exhausted from the strain of the
power, and is still able to fight like 3 of Ash's (slightly damaged iirc) team in a row despite not having a type advantage against any of them(Fighting/Steel vs
Fire/Flying, Fighting/Flying, and then Electric). Ash's Mega Lucario is, from what I see, consistently on par with Dynamax/Gigantamax pokemon who were previously
base-to-base with it.
-Mega Abomasnow was pretty comparable to Ash-Greninja.

-Mega Pidgeot can "pummel opponents in no time flat" as its "body grows much stronger" especially the wings.
-Mega Slowbro's armor is so durable that "nothing and no one can scratch it"
-Mega Sceptile can "be on its opponent in a flash" indicating a possible blitz amp.
-Mega Steelix has similar durability statements, "impervious to damage" and able to "lash out without flinching" after taking hits.
-Mega Sableye's jewel also has a "can't be scratched" statement apparently and "can turn back any attack."
-Mega Glalie's energy is strong enough that it broke its jaw.
-"Anyone" in Mega Salamence's path is sliced in half and it doesn't get slowed down at all. Mega Evolution melted its two wings into a ******-up thing that drives it
insane.
-Mega Metagross can be the combined form of a Metagross, Metang, and 2 Beldum.
-Mega Rayquaza is seemingly superior to a combination of Primal Groudon and Kyogre, but to be honest I think regular Rayquaza isn't far off from them. We've already
had it going up from Tier 5 to Tier 3 on here too idk.

-Mega Skarmory's travel speed goes from 180mph to over 767mph.
-Mega Excadrill can destroy "anything"
-Mega Eelektross swims almost twice as fast
-Mega Chesnaught's armor is "absurdly strong", as is its will. It is "confident it can withstand any sort of attack."
-Mega Delphox can combine its branch flames and its own flames into a single fireball
-Mega Greninja is so confident that it no longer bothers using stealth. One could also keep in mind that it combines like 5 Water Shurikens into one I believe.
-Mega Pyroar goes from spitting fire "over 10,000 degrees" to "over 18,000 degrees"
-Having 4 flowers means Mega Meganium can store way more energy in the flowers than its base form's 1.
-Mega Hawlucha can "take hit after hit" then defeat the opponent with a Flying Press, idk
-Mega Feraligatr DOES have a statement that its big jaw thing that combines its arms and dorsal fin is at least 10x stronger than its base form's jaws.
-Mega Zygarde's got a move that's a Z-Move level amp on top of the existing boost
-Mega Falinks uses the "ultimate battle formation"

-Mega Raichu X discharges 50 MILLION Volts vs regular Raichu's 100k.
-Mega Absol Z "Cuts down foes with a single blow"
-Mega Staraptor goes from "can easily fly while gripping a small Pokemon" to "can easily fly while gripping a Steelix"
-Mega Lucario Z "far outshines an average Lucario," can deliver "powerful blows that wouldn't seem possible based on appearance," and can "parry all manner of
attacks."
-Heatran's base form has no heat statements other than comparisons to magma. Magma maxes out below 3,000 Farenheit iirc. In Mega form, it can superheat its body
to nearly 2 million farenheit(Significantly hotter than the surface of the sun).
-Mega Darkrai was out of control and made Hyperspace Lumiose, idk.
-Mega Golurk has so much energy it might just ******* explode.
-Mega Meowstic can use its psychic powers to destroy "anything."
-Mega Zeraora stores "10 lightning strikes"

Idk tho

 

[SomebodyData]

Yes. Mega evolutions are a 10x amp as seen through the pokedex entries and Plus Moves use the same energy as Mega Evolution to deliver blows on a similar level (Like how mega slowbro's defenses are so high we are told that we need plus moves and mega evolution to go through them).

Either way I will probably just remake the thread with more properly organized evidence.

since nobody disagrees with the anime scaling and the high 3-A stuff, would it be fine for me to apply that?

Yeah that's fine I think, there's been 3 staff on the thread right? So even though Pikachu is tier 1, it's not an issue.

 

[Arceus0x]

Yeah that's fine I think, there's been 3 staff on the thread right? So even though Pikachu is tier 1, it's not an issue.

I've made the revision.

I'll be working on gathering more scans for Mega Evolution as it seems there's more to it than I thought (even a potential Energy system).

I did mess up a little. Whenever I linked the CRT I was accidentally linking my Sandbox version of the CRT and not the actual one. I have no clue what to do now but I did mess up.

Overall, you can close this. Mega stuff will take time.