A Revision About A World of Slimes — Conclusions (Final Part)

[Astral_Trinity439]

Introduction​

Hello everyone, hope everything's going fine. This CRT is to make the conclusions of the previously concluded two staff CRTs. This CRT is for assigning tiers to each character.

Permission to post was granted by our favorite mod @FinePoint on discord!

Important Notes
Before posting, note a few things. Ignoring these may get you reported or get in trouble:

• Do not bring up the argument that Other Worlds are planets, as that was addressed in the 1st CRT.
• Do not bring up arguments that Other Worlds are smaller than Universes/not significant in size, as that was addressed in the 1st CRT.
• Do not bring up the thing with Cardinal World's durability as it was already addressed in the 1st CRT.
• Do not bring up the argument that Worlds = Dimensions as it was already addressed in the 2nd CRT.
• Do not bring up the argument that Zalario did not destroy Dimensions and instead conquered them, as that was addressed in the 1st CRT.

As always, kindly avoid any derailing or toxic behavior, and keep on topic. And if you have contentions, summarize your arguments in a single post instead of many.

Table of Contents​

New Wording
So per the previously accepted CRTs, here' the new wording for the cosmology aspects:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Astral_Trinity439/Implementation

A new section named Otherworld is added. And the "Strength of the World" would be a sub-point in properties of the World.

Scaling to Dimensions

Spoiler: Zalario

Zalario has been stated to have destroyed many dimensions.

The Otherworld had order. A semi material world that exists as if overlapping with spiritual worlds such as the Spirit World and the Demon World.
Worlds that never intersect. There, broadly divided, three forces were competing for supremacy.

The Phantom race, which plots the invasion of other worlds.
The Insecter race, which aims to expand its place of peaceful settlement.
And the Cryptid race, which spends its time in battle and destruction.

There were also forces that came visiting from other dimensions, but they were destroyed, along with their original dimensions, by one of these three forces.
To that extent, these three forces boasted unparalleled martial might.
Source
V16 Prologue

The demon named Charys had splendid strength. Even from Zalario's perspective, who had destroyed numerous dimensions, he could be called a rarely seen talent. The demon who possessed the Spirit King named Treyni was also quite something, but not to the extent of Charys. In her case, high power magic was a threat, but it did not work on Zalario, so it was not a problem.
Source
Note: Zarior was changed to Zalario as the latter is the localized name. Charis was changed to Charys for the same reason.

Zalario isn't someone who specializes in destructive capacity (his Ultimate Skill literally focuses on Matter Manipulation instead), so all those comparable or superior should scale to this if they don't have their own feats. That includes:

• Rimuru
• Dino (With Ultimate Skill; Scales to Zalario)
• Ramiris (True Form)
• Guy Crimson (Scales comparable/above True Dragons)
• Milim (Scales comparable to Guy)
• Dagruel (Comparable to Veldora)
• True Dragons (Veldora & Velgrynd; Above Zalario)
• Chloe (Scale comparable/above True Dragons)
• Diablo (Scales above or comparable to Zegion)
• Zegion (Scales to Vega (no profile) post-Zelanus absorption who scales above Zalario; also scales above Ultimate Dino)
• Shion (Could harm Dagruel)
• Devil Lords (Car, Ul and Tes; per this thread)

Spoiler: Nihility Magic

So Nihility Magic/Abyss Magic when unleashed can destroy the Cardinal World (environmental destruction) whereas Cardinal World scales above normal Dimensions:

It was a well-known fact that the most powerful holy magic was Disintegration, the ultimate antipersonnel spell. Only a few people could use it, a fact also widely known, and its power was well documented. No one, it was said, could possibly survive a hit. But there were some drawbacks to it, most vitally its narrow range. Against a human being, it was the strongest out there, but it couldn’t be used against a military force—that was just not how it worked. But there also existed a dark magic version of Disintegration, its counterpart of sorts—a fact known only to a very limited number of people. This was Nihilistic Vanish, a spell of the type Ultima and her demon cohort specialized in. A truly terrifying magic, it consumed its targets using the emptiness welling up from the underworld—and what was more, this magic worked in a wider range than Disintegration.

In this case, Gadora had worked the spell so its area of influence expanded across the entire battlefield. Pouring all his magical power into Nihilistic Vanish, he managed to turn it into Nihilistic Parade, a new and wide-area annihilation magic .Just as the caster intended, an extremely large magic circle appeared on the ground and in the sky. Then, as if connecting heaven and earth, bolts of dark electricity raced between them, releasing countless black spots in the air—the fangs of darkness, the devourer of all matter. Gadora was releasing dark magic that manipulated emptiness itself, a forbidden skill if there ever was one. These voids, released into the world like this, did not disappear until the EP of their effects was reduced to zero. They filled the space between the magic circles, erasing all that existed inside. Any mistake in controlling this spell would result in this ultimate magic destroying the world. As soon as the spell activated, Gadora burst into laughter.

“Wah-ha-ha-ha-ha! How do you like it? Isn’t it tremendous?!”

He looked so innocently happy about it. But Adalmann was having none of it.

“You damned fool!” he snapped. “What are you thinking?!What’ll we do if this dangerous magic becomes too much for you and goes out of control?!”
OTL V20C3

Magic invoking the voids of hell should have been known only to demonic royalty. Who would spread those spells around? Out of the seven people who came to mind, Ultima feltlike the prime suspect. Or maybe Raine. Mizeri was too sober minded to do anything like that, and Guy, Diablo, and Testarossa were too sensible, so they could be ruled out.

Carrera? Maybe, but Daggrull reasoned her lack of teaching ability would rule her out. So the main suspects were Ultima and Raine. And between those two, Ultima was on much better terms with Adalmann and his undead friend. Thus, Daggrull assumed Ultima was the culprit—and he was correct, although that wouldn’t have made him any happier about it. It wasn’t the time to point fingers anyway.
OTL V20C3

“What a ridiculous thing to say!” he almost blurted out. But then he remembered this was a life-or-death battle. No matter what means were used, might made right. But somehow, Diablo didn’t seem to be straining at all. Unlike before, his body actually seemed to be accepting void energy. Feldway trembled at the thought. It couldn’t have been possible. This void energy was a destructive force that could very well destroy the world.

Neither he nor Testarossa should have been able to work it so easily. For one, it was difficult to bring up to the surface. It could be manifested through magic, but there were limits to that as well—and even if you summoned this energy, it’d be quickly neutralized if left alone, restoring the balance like nothing had ever happened. It was impossible to release an unchecked torrent of void energy large enough to destroy the world unless you could open a gate directly to the depths of Hell itself.

Or maybe this meant Testarossa and Diablo had opened that door. Feldway, of course, was actively seeking to destroy the world. If those two couldn’t control this energy, then good for him—he’d achieve his goal without having to destroy the Sacred Tree.

But Diablo was circulating that void energy around his own body. This was beyond suicide—or it should have been. But he had complete control over it, which was unbelievable. It’d be one thing if Veldanava himself had given Diablo that body, but no—it had to have been just a collection of unknown, random materials cobbled together. There was no way he could withstand such unprecedented power.
OTL V22C3

Nihility Magic users would include:

• Guy Crimson
• Diablo
• Carrera
• Adalman

And any other Primordial Demon which has a profile in the future.

Spoiler: Disintegration

Disintegration can harm True Dragons, and it isn't just metaphysical hax as it also erases/destroys physical matter:

“Let me provide you a prayer to the divine. I hope and desire for the power of the holy spirits. Listen to my appeal and overcome all in your way! Disintegration!!”

The request, delivered in Hinata’s beautiful voice, was granted. The resulting show of force was literally divine, enough to crush all physical and spiritual presences within its defined space. It was the ultimate in targeted, destructive magic, emitting flashes of white light as it poured from Hinata’s hands to the circle. It sped out at thousands of miles per hour, almost at light speed, as its holy power made cells and souls vanish without a trace. It was more than enough to make the Glutton disappear, not affecting the space around it at all.
OTL V5C3

Now that I thought about it more, actively damaging Veldora’s body seemed like a non-starter. Maybe clocking him on the head a few times, like I did before, was kind of scarily dangerous. I came in thinking it’d be hard to damagehim, much less defeat him, and now he seemed like this fragile figurine to me.

Of course, a bolt or two of magic wouldn’t even scratch him, and a random punch or kick would achieve little as well. Only when you add the effects of an ultimate skill to these attacks does the damage become more substantial. Even Disintegration, the most powerful of holy magic, could only do a little bit of damage against Veldora’s gigantic frame. The durability of these True Dragons was no joke—it’s what made them True Dragons. So, yeah, I think some attacking is safe enough, but you never know what’ll happen if you hit someone in the wrong place. That was doubly true now that Veldora didn’t have control over his own body. There was just no telling what he would do.
OTL V15C2
______________
Looking at it this way, damaging him was out of the question. In fact, I was a little scared now when I thought about the beating I just gave him… It was difficult to think of Veldora as so fragile as I had thought he would be difficult to defeat or even damage. A shot or two of magic would not even scratch him and punching and kicking would be useless. Only by adding the effects of an Ultimate Skill to the various attacks would I be able to do any real damage at all. Even the most powerful holy magic, ‘Disintegration,’ could only do insignificant damage to Veldora’s massive body.

This showed that the high durability of the True Dragon race was not a fluke. That’s why he should have been able to withstand a few attacks, but there was always a chance. Especially now, Veldora was in a state of rampage without will. There was no telling what he would do, which was the sad thing about being controlled.
Slimereader
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A shot or two of magic won’t even result in a scratch, and things like punching or kicking are meaningless. Only when the effects of an Ultimate Skill are added on top of various attacks do they finally become capable of dealing proper damage.
Even the strongest holy magic, Disintegration, would probably only be able to inflict a slight amount of damage when faced with Veldora’s gigantic body.
In other words, the high durability that makes the Dragon Species the strongest is no exaggeration.
VSBW Translation

This refers to when they are in dragon form (big), cuz otherwise:

This isn’t going to work, the demon lord Luminus Valentine thought, and she meant it. Her plan was to dispose of Daggrull on the first shot, even if it meant breaking out her most powerful secret techniques. If that didn’t work, defeat was inevitable. Disintegration could turn any opponent into dust; it could kill Daggrull just as well. Even a True Dragon would have no choice but to be reborn later. And yet the results were a disaster.

Daggrull’s cheat-level Cancel Magic had completely destroyed any chance of victory. Luminus had half-expected this to happen, and now it had come true.
OTL V20C3
______________
Her plan had been to kill Dagruel by using her most powerful secret technique on the first attack. The moment it did not work, defeat was inevitable. ‘Disintegration,’ which could turn any opponent to dust, should have killed Dagruel. Even the True Dragons would have needed to be reborn in this life. And yet, the result was disastrous. Dagruel’s ‘Magic Nullification,’ a cheat of a trait, had completely ruined her chances of winning. At that point, Luminas was able to foresee what would happen.
Slimereader

Disintegration users include:

• Luminous
• Hinata
• Granbell
• Shuna
• Diablo
• Adalman

Disintegration should however have a note, like:

Range is extremely limited as its an anti-individual Magic, and designed for Human-sized targets, not Giants like True Dragons in their Dragon Form. It works insofar as that it erases anything within its scope of influence, however does nothing to anything outside its range.

Spoiler: Ultimate Skills

Ultimate Skills when used in overlap with Magic can harm even a True Dragon. They can also be infused in one's physical moves like punches or kicks:

Now that I thought about it more, actively damaging Veldora’s body seemed like a non-starter. Maybe clocking him on the head a few times, like I did before, was kind of scarily dangerous. I came in thinking it’d be hard to damage him, much less defeat him, and now he seemed like this fragile figurine to me.

Of course, a bolt or two of magic wouldn’t even scratch him, and a random punch or kick would achieve little as well. Only when you add the effects of an ultimate skill to these attacks does the damage become more substantial. Even Disintegration, the most powerful of holy magic, could only do a little bit of damage against Veldora’s gigantic frame. The durability of these True Dragons was no joke—it’s what made them True Dragons. So, yeah, I think some attacking is safe enough, but you never know what’ll happen if you hit someone in the wrong place. That was doubly true now that Veldora didn’t have control over his own body. There was just no telling what he would do.
OTL V15C2
_________________
Looking at it this way, damaging him was out of the question. In fact, I was a little scared now when I thought about the beating I just gave him… It was difficult to think of Veldora as so fragile as I had thought he would be difficult to defeat or even damage. A shot or two of magic would not even scratch him and punching and kicking would be useless. Only by adding the effects of an Ultimate Skill to the various attacks would I be able to do any real damage at all. Even the most powerful holy magic, ‘Disintegration,’ could only do insignificant damage to Veldora’s massive body.

This showed that the high durability of the True Dragon race was not a fluke. That’s why he should have been able to withstand a few attacks, but there was always a chance. Especially now, Veldora was in a state of rampage without will. There was no telling what he would do, which was the sad thing about being controlled.
Slimereader

A vast assortment of magic circles appeared around her, the work of several partially summoned replications.

“Take this!”

Eleven rays of light—each one the work of the skill Nuclear Cannon—shot toward Veldora. After a moment’s consideration, he decided to neutralize them all with Magic Barrier. There were too many rays to dodge—and thanks to dismissing them as mere magic attacks, he had lost precious time. He sensed the danger these cannon shots posed for him, and so he put up the barrier.

“Yeow!”

Veldora felt a searing pain. He had failed to neutralize the attack.“Oh, you really are smarter now, aren’t you? I’m a little impressed that you only took that much damage.”

“Nnngh… I didn’t realize you were putting your ultimate skill into your magic as well… If I took a full hit, I wouldn’t be alive.”
OTL V15C2
_______________
A myriad of magic circles appeared around Velgrynd. It was a simultaneous activation of magic by a partial ‘Split Body.’

“Eat this!”

Eleven light rays—Nuclear Attack Magic: Nuclear Canon attacked Veldora. After a moment’s judgment, Veldora decided to neutralize the magic with a magic barrier. There were too many rays to evade. Besided, he thought it was just simple magic and planned to just ignore it, which caused him to be a bit late in responding. Veldora had put up a magic barrier because he sensed the danger of Velgrynd’s ‘Nuclear Cannon.’

“Gyabaa!”

Veldora felt searing pain. He had failed to neutralize Velgrynd’s magic, and he had been hit.

“Oh, you really have gotten clever, haven’t you? I’m a little surprised that you only took that much damage.”

“Gununununu, I didn’t think that even magic could be granted the power of an Ultimate Skill as well… If I had taken it head-on, I would not have been able to escape unscathed.”
_________________
Gnnnn/grrr… to think that you have even bestowed the authority of an Ultimate Skill upon magic… If I had taken it head on, even I would not have gotten off unharmed.
VSBW Translation

Abyss Annihilation, like I just mentioned, was destructive enough to affect the very future of this planet, so it was pretty much off the table to start with. I bring it up because it’s one of the strongest skills out there in terms of sheer power…but I really couldn’t think of anything stronger than that which targets individuals. Disintegration could compare to it, albeit barely, but otherwise the writing was on the wall. Nuclear Cannon and other handy single-target nuclear magic couldn’t hold a candle to Disintegration anyway. And I could enhance any strike with an ultimate skill of mine, but if my opponent had an ultimate, too, he could deal with that. Really, I wasn’t sure I had anything against this guy.
OTL V19C1
________________
The ‘Abyss Annihilation’ that I just mentioned had a destructive power that could affect the entire planet, so it couldn’t be used anyway. However, I used it as an example because it was one the highest classes of magic in terms of power. When it came to anti-personnel magic, I couldn’t really think of anything that could surpass it. ‘Disintegration’ was barely comparable to it, and anything else would just be guessing. The simple anti-personnel nuclear magic: Nuclear Cannon, was not nearly as powerful as Disintegration…Even if an ultimate skill was used to increase the power, it could be dealt with if the opponent also had an ultimate skill. Even without it, there was no way to make it hit.
Slimereader

Ultimate Skill users include:

• Octagram
• All present True Dragons
• All Guardian Lords
• Yuuki
• Beretta
• Chloe

Scaling to Worlds

Spoiler: Phantoms

Well, you see, there's this statement. If the Phantoms invading unleashed their true strength, they would end up destroying the world itself that they are in:

And so, Velgrynd made her judgment while recalling the shock she had felt at her fingertips. It was a power equivalent to Rank A in her homeland. She was impressed that a weapon of Rare grade could achieve such a level. Now then, from that, one could also imagine the enemy’s strength.

(Probably, Heavenly Demon class would be somewhere from upper B Rank to around A Rank. And Dragon Ogre class would finally be around above A Rank? If that’s the case, then the Youma are indeed likely the Phantom race.)

The Phantom race (Youma) is an invader species, an Aggressor of semi spiritual lifeforms. In the material world, they were supposed to only be able to act for a short time unless they materialized. Especially in this world where magicules are scarce, it would be far too inefficient unless they possessed humans. Because of that, if they exert their true power, a human body would not be able to withstand it.

(So they are weakened. Well, this world is not protected by magicules, so if they use too much power, it would likely destroy it. If their goal is conquest rather than destruction, they must be controlling their power? That’s probably why even Kondo’s current strength was enough to fight them…)

If the Phantom race were to become serious, the inhabitants of this world would have no chance of winning. Velgrynd reached that conclusion and smiled at the fortune of her being here at this moment.
VSBW Translation
V17C2

(Also use this evidence as demons in V17 = actually Phantoms/Specters)

Also, it's not referring to their physical body as explained by our translation helper:

Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)

Hello, can someone please confirm if this translation is correct?? Yes, it is correct, but you need to replace specter with Phantom

vsbattles.com

As you can see, phantoms alone can destroy a weak world if they give it their all instead of holding back. It is also in context to "If they're wanting to destroy/annihilate it, that's fine, but they're invading", meaning it's not in the context of "conquering" either.

Now, a few things that might be brought up

Why Universe and not a Planet?
Well, it's not a planet cuz that defeats the entire plot of the phantoms/mystics finding it inconvenient to destroy a world BECAUSE they are invading it. If it was just a planet they are referring to, they can very well just move to another planet. After all, they literally live in the Otherworld originally, where they simply used condensed magicule surfaces as base, living a life in what is akin to Outer Space:

In this other world, there was no such thing as gravity. There was no concept of “earth” or of “heaven,” making it quite similar to outer space in a way. All that existed in this empty space were objects composed of condensed magicules. These objects were as strong as magisteel—strong enough to generate their own powerful gravitational force, which was why they were turned into bases. The mystics, as former angels, used these bases for habitation—so they could live as they did in their key world and not forget what life under the force of gravity was like. Obela’s base, comparable in size to an asteroid, was the stronghold for their anti-Ivalage efforts; its strength was unrivaled, and it was one of the most important parts of the mystics’ overall living space.
OTL V19 Prologue
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In the Otherworld, there is no such thing as gravity. It is similar to outer space in that there is no concept of earth and sky. There are only objects made of condensed magicules scattered throughout the empty space. Such objects were as strong as magisteel, and generated powerful gravitational forces, so they were processed to be used as ‘bases’. The former angels, the Phantoms, used such bases to live a life similar to one in the Cardinal World, so as not to forget their lives in a gravitational field. The base of Obera, which was comparable in size to an asteroid, was the frontline base against Ivarage. Its strength was unrivaled by any other bases and was one of the most important facilities for the Phantoms.
Slimereader
________
In the Otherworld, things like gravity do not exist. In the sense that there is also no concept of heaven and earth, it can be said to resemble outer space.
In an empty space, only objects formed by the condensation of magicules are scattered about. Such objects have strength comparable to magic steel and, moreover, generate strong gravitational pull, so by processing them, they are used as bases.
VSBW Translation

So that means the "world" isn't planet in this context, at least. There's another proof of this, but for that let's move to the next point and address both at once

Why Low 2-C and not 3-A?
Well, cuz it's explicitly called a Space-Time, and even that, in context to it being a Universe:

The universe is vast, but not as vast as the Otherworld.
Having obtained vessels and incarnated, we believed that complete conquest of this spacetime could be achieved within several thousand to several tens of thousands of years. In parallel, we were developing the Underworld Gates that connect to other dimensions, keeping further invasions in mind.However, an unexpected situation occurred.
V17C2

So to say, "World", by all means, refers to a Space-Time in that context to Velgrynd's statement about phantoms.

What exactly scales to it?
First off, the ranks Velgrynd talked about were upper B-rank and A+ rank. Here's the thing; when Phantoms invaded this world, they couldn't use their full power without destroying it as a result, which was because this world wasn't protected by Magicules. So they nerfed themselves and held back, making them at the upper-limit of B rank. When they "exert full power" without holding back, it's equivalent of an A+ rank.

And so, Velgrynd made her judgment while recalling the shock she had felt at her fingertips. It was a power equivalent to Rank A in her homeland. She was impressed that a weapon of Rare grade could achieve such a level. Now then, from that, one could also imagine the enemy’s strength.

(Probably, Heavenly Demon class would be somewhere from upper B Rank to around A Rank. And Dragon Ogre class would finally be around above A Rank? If that’s the case, then the Youma are indeed likely the Phantom race.)

The Phantom race (Youma) is an invader species, an Aggressor of semi spiritual lifeforms. In the material world, they were supposed to only be able to act for a short time unless they materialized. Especially in this world where magicules are scarce, it would be far too inefficient unless they possessed humans. Because of that, if they exert their true power, a human body would not be able to withstand it.

(So they are weakened. Well, this world is not protected by magicules, so if they use too much power, it would likely destroy it. If their goal is conquest rather than destruction, they must be controlling their power? That’s probably why even Kondo’s current strength was enough to fight them…)

If the Phantom race were to become serious, the inhabitants of this world would have no chance of winning. Velgrynd reached that conclusion and smiled at the fortune of her being here at this moment.
VSBW Translation
V17C2

The minister wasn’t shocked by Velgrynd making fun of him. If even the enemy’s lowliest ground troops could transform into a ten’yo-class menace, the situation was beyond hopeless. It was almost sad, how unaffected Velgrynd acted compared to him, and nobody in the audience could laugh ateither of them. They all felt the same way.

“What’s the big surprise? Even Gensei over there can beat someone at that level. The ‘commanders’ leading these privates might give him more of a challenge, but they wouldn’t be insurmountable for him.”

These “commanders,” the higher-ranked among the lower classes of mystics, would rate an A rank in other worlds…but until their bodily assimilation was complete, they could only unleash power equivalent to just over a B. Once the process was done, though, and they became a kiryu-class creature, fighting them would be tough. Tough, yes, but Velgrynd thought Gensei could beat them.
V17C2

This is backed up by the fact that the ones that can
enter right now have an EP range anywhere from 100K to 600K, basically equivalent to Demon Lord Seeds:

Prisoners were lined up in front of this Gate, their minds fully dominated, and one by one, they were possessed by yohma. Taking on physical forms this way had one key advantage for the mystics—it let them seize the name granted to the body they took. As half-spiritual life-forms, they were inherently unstable, but taking on a physical body and name allowed them to establish a clear, unbreakable sense of self. The influx of knowledge they gained from the jump would turn them into decently useful pawns in war—even for the low-ranked “privates” among them.

“I’m not sure there’s that much need for urgency, Mr. Amari. Everything’s going according to plan. We’ve thoroughly investigated the war-waging power of this planet, but there is hardly anyone that would pose a threat to us.”

Amari was being advised by David Reagan, who was possessed by a “general”-class mystic—almost as powerful as potential demon lords. Like Amari, he had fully completed his physical manifestation, giving him an EP north of six hundred thousand. It was little wonder Kondo couldn’t beat him.

“Come on,” protested Li Jinlong alongside him. “How many times do I have to remind you? We still have Xienhua, the Holy Fist, on our side. Andin my memories, at least, that girl could defeat our staff officers easily.”

By “staff officer,” he was referring to upper-middle-ranked mystics. In other worlds that would’ve made them as powerful as demon lord seeds. They had leadership roles here, overseeing regiments of a thousand or so and playing a key part of the invasion. Unlike the lower ranks, they were too powerful to trifle with, and losing any of them would put a major dentin their operations.
V17C2 OTL
___________

The mental-controlled captives were lined up in front of the Underworld Gate. One by one, they are possessed by demons. The greatest advantage to the incarnation is that the phantoms can take their names. As half-mental life forms, they are unstable beings. By acquiring a body and a name, they established a strong sense of self. As a result of the knowledge they gain from the body they possess, even the lowest-ranking soldier had become useful in their own right.

“There’s no need to be so hasty Masahiko-sama. Our plan is on track. I’ve surveyed our world’s strength and found few who pose a threat.”

It was David Reagan who advised Masahiko to use the demon lord’s powers. The demon that possessed him was of the rank of General, one of the highest-ranking Demon Lord Seeds. He is one of the strongest demons to achieve full manifestation, with an existence value of up to six hundred thousand. No wonder Kondou couldn’t win. David’s opponent, Li Jinlong, is the one to complain about this.

“I told you many times. Do you remember, Fist Saint Xianhua is still here? The way I remember her, she’s as good a match as any officer could have.”

An ‘officer’ is a mid-range phantom rank. In the Otherworld, they are as powerful as Demon Lord Seeds and were the leaders of a thousand-man regiment that was the key to the invasion. Unlike the lower-ranked ones, they were a formidable force, and losing them would seriously affect their plans. Li Jinlong’s advice was right. But David laughs.
Slimereader
______________
The raws say "World", not "Planet" (OTL):

Lady Tenri, there is no need to be in such a hurry. The plan is proceeding smoothly. We also investigated this world’s combat strength, but there were hardly any individuals who could become a threat.

Clearly, then, this mystic approach to world invasion had its pluses and minuses. But if they could expand the size of the Underworld Gate, this separate body could return to the mystic’s original world with its physical form intact, simplifying the process for full assimilation. And thanks to a constant construction effort, this Gate was now much larger than Velgrynd had predicted. Its EP rating was at around a hundred thousand, allowing mystics at the “staff officer” level to fully manifest themselves without any problems.
V17C2 OTL
_____________
There were advantages, but the disadvantages were greater. By expanding the ‘Underworld Gate,’ they could return to another world even if they are incarnated, so the phantoms were aiming for complete manifestation. The ‘Underworld Gate’ was expanding day by day, and it was expanding faster than Velgrynd had expected. It was about 100,000 in existence value, so a low-intermediate level ‘lieutenant’ would be able to fully manifest without any problems.
Slimereader

By the way, in Tempest, existence values are also associated with the Freedom Association hierarchy.

Less than 1,000 is E Class.

D Class is from 1,000 to less than 3,000.

C Class is from 3,000 to less than 6,000.

B Class is from 6,000 to less than 8,000.

B-plus Class is from 8,000 to less than 9,000.

A-minus Class is from 9,000 to less than 10,000.

From here, there is a huge high wall, and if one can surpass it, they would join the first-class ranks (Over A rank).

An existence value of over 10,000 is A Class, which is considered Hazard-class.

More than 100,000 is judged to be Special A Class, which is considered Calamity-class.

For those who have obtained the Demon Lord Seed, the minimum value is 200,000. Rimuru’s feeling is that Clayman and Frey, before their pseudo-awakening, would have had an existence value of around 400,000.

Judging from that, the Disaster-class, which is equivalent to S Class, was defined as having an existence value greater than 400,000. The S Class in Tempest does not refer to demon lords. After all, there is a large number of executives with strength equivalent to the old demon lords, so for the sake of convenience and understanding, all of the people at this level were defined as S Class.

From here on out, the standards are only used in the Jura Tempest Federation. The Catastrophe class is a designation limited to ‘true dragon species’ and Guy, so the Jura Tempest Federation uses the Special S Class to define the other awakened transcendents.

The pseudo-awakened Clayman was said to have had an unstable amount of magicules, but since Rimuru had once remarked that ‘he was about 700,000 to 800,000, right?.’ Having an existence value of 800,000 or more was defined as Special S Class, according to Rimuru’s statement. Furthermore, because some of them had existence values exceeding one million, it was decided that they would be called the ‘Million-class’ for ease of understanding.

As a special mention for reference, the existence value of an archdemon is only 140,000 no matter who summons it. It is a uniform number, as if there is a fixed upper limit. Even Testarossa and the others were recorded to have had an initial existence value of 140,000. There was no way to confirm whether this was true or not, but Ramiris and the others had no doubt.
Slimereader V17C2

(Note: Special A = A+ rank; different names)

Do note that the Million-class or being like Zalario or strong beings below them can't enter, because they cannot pass through the Underworld Gate at all due to how powerful they are:

And, in fact, it was exactly as Velgrynd predicted. The invaders of this world were a vanguard force of mystics under the command of Cornu, one of the Three Mystic Leaders. The Underworld Gate that had naturally manifested in this world was small, too small for Cornu himself to emerge through. Work to enlarge it was underway, but the world still had a little more time before it could be fully conquered. And while Velgrynd hadn’t inferred all these facts yet, what she had now was sufficient.
V17C2 OTL
_________________

In fact, it was just as Velgrynd had predicted. The men who were invading this world were an advance force of monsters under Cornu’s command. Also, the size of the Underworld Gate that spontaneously appeared in this world was so small that it was impossible for Cornu’s main body to appear. It was currently in the process of expansion, giving them a little more time to take over the world. She hadn’t been able to see that accurately, but it was enough for Velgrynd.
Slimereader

“Hurry up with the expansion work. This Gate is far too small for Cornu to fit through.”

Normally, a visitor from another world could only fully manifest themselves if their magicule count fit within the size of the Underworld Gate. If they couldn’t, they’d have to keep their main body in their original world, send over a separate body connected by a soul corridor, and gradually build up their powers on the other side.

This, however, didn’t apply to the Three Mystic Leaders. So power laden were their souls that your average Underworld Gate meant little to them. You’d need a Gate rated for an EP of at least a million to even manifest them at all. If you left your main body in the other world, by the way, you could revive your separate body even if it died—but since it had never fully manifested, it would lose a great deal of its strength, perhaps over half. The only things passed on to the new manifestation were its memories and experiences, and you’d need to find another physical body to possess.
OTL V17C2
_____________
“Hurry up with the expansion work. The gate is too small for Cornu-sama to descend.”

Originally, only those who had a magicule amount less than the size of the ‘Underworld Gate’ could fully manifest from the Otherworld. Those who did not had to leave their main body in the Otherworld and send out ‘split bodies’ linked by a ‘Soul Corridor’ to gradually regain their power. But…

The only ones who do not apply to this description are the Three Demons. The power of the three demons is so great that an Underworld Gate wouldn’t do them justice. It must be at least a million-level gate to make them appear. Incidentally, as long as the main body remained in the otherworld, they could be resurrected even if the alter ego died! However, because that gate hasn’t fully manifested, they can only display a weakened power of less than half at most. Also, even if they were revived, only memories and experiences are inherited, and it is necessary to find another possessor.
Slimereader

So we can take out the possibility of high-tiers out of the question. And since Velgrynd thought of what she did while focusing on the upper-B to A+ rank, we can assume she refers to phantoms of those ranks (B) that can exert power at A+ when at full power.

However, an important thing to note is that the 600K EP beings were introduced much later (page 116~) compared to Velgrynd's statement (page 88~), so there's no proof via which we can assume that Velgrynd was basing the statement off of them. Therefore, it it's same to assume she is referring to those that are AII+ rank (100K+ EP), but the 600K+ EP ones (which would instead be S-class)

So everyone that is A+ rank (or specifically those with 100K EP or more) gets a Low 2-C rating. Do note, that the reason they cannot perform this same feat in the Cardinal World is already explained in the 1st CRT with all the "Cardinal World is superior/that strong" stuff, so please do not bring that topic here.

Those that scale to it are:

• Rimuru (Slime key)
• Hinata (Both keys)
• Granbell (Both keys)
• Kenya (With Light Spirit)
• Gobuta (Post Harvest; With Unification)
• Souei (Post-Harvest)
• Hakuro (Post-harvest festival)
• Treyni (Base key)
• Shion (Post-Harvest)
• Carrion (Base key)
• Clayman
• Laplace
• Footman
• Glenda
• Saare
• Reynald
• Orc Lord
• Valentine
• Gazel
• Shizue/Ifrit
• Yuuki (First key)
• Charybdis
• Mariabell
• Razul

Summary​

TL;DR

1. Worlds are Low 2-C
2. Otherworlds/Dimensions are 2-C
3. Cardinal World is 2-C Dura wise for upscaling from Dimensions

As for wording, should be like:

Low Multiverse level (Comparable/Superior to Zalario, who has destroyed many dimensions)

Low Multiverse level with Ultimate Skill (Ultimate Skills combined with Magic or other attacks can harm True Dragons)

Low Multiverse level via <Disintegration> (Disintegration can harm a True Dragon)

Low Multiverse level via <Nihility Magic> (Nihility Magic summons the Gates to the Abyss of Hell, which if let run amok, can destroy the Cardinal World)

Universal level+ (Those with an Existence Value of over a Hundred Thousand can destroy a World if they don't hold back)

Verse Rule Addition​

Well, we all know how tiring this series has been, from this decently long CRT to this EXTREMELY LONG CRT to then this (this topic was removed from it later, but for a full page it was discussed), to then this and finally this one you're reading right now. It's been a really, really tiring journey, so I propose a rule addition, much like many other. Here's the initial draft:

Do not attempt to downgrade the characters' tier nor the cosmology below Tier 2 based on the premise that Worlds and/or Dimensions are not Tier 2 in size, as this topic has been repeatedly discussed, and in great detail, and received its final conclusion here.

I think having 4 CRTs with a total accumulated pages amounting to ~40 pages is, in every way you see it, really excessive. So creating a verse-specific rule should be very feasible. On the other hand, reaching a unanimous vote on a staff thread should also be enough to ential a rule stating that its conclusion should not be attempted to be overturned. Of course, exceptions always exist, such as the new information coming out in newer volumes (side stories) or other source material, but inside the main story novel itself which has been completed, these conclusions have been reached.

Also, feel free to suggest an edit in the wording of said rule, as this is still merely a draft. Though if no one suggests anything else, this wording would be added to the rule page unchanged.

Votes​

Agree: Random-Helper323, Planck69 and SomebodyData (Everything except Discussion rule), Elizhaa and DarkDragonMedus (Everything),

Disagree: Planck69, SomebodyData and Antvasima (Discussion Rule)

Neutral/Miscellaneous: Random-Helper323 (Discussion Rule)

____________________________________________________
Hope you had a good time reading~

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Also, just like last time, I'd like to request unlimited post perm for the following members to keep the discussion alive and not prolonged on asking permission:
Supporter side:
@Ciel_Trinity439 @PrimeHydra64 and @Cipher72
Opposition side:
@EldemadeDityjon and someone he choses (As he's the only contributive opposition from the first thread)

 

[Antvasima]

Since @EldemadeDityjon does not seem willing to help out during these discussions, if I remember correctly, it seems very onesided to only allow them to participate from the opposing side here.

Is there no other articulate and rational member who has a differing opinion from you about this?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Since @EldemadeDityjon does not seem willing to help out during these discussions, if I remember correctly, it seems very onesided to only allow them to participate from the opposing side here.

Is there no other articulate and rational member who has a differing opinion from you about this?

I don't recall anyone active at the moment who has an opposing opinion, and this topic (Low 2-C via Phantom feat) hasn't been brought up before in any CRT so I wouldn't even know

The rest were pre existing feats that are still present on profiles, just that their tiering is different and has been so for years now. However, as the tiers were changed in the previous staff threads, their effects are indexed here as well.

As for the lack of opposition, it is likely because the novel has been completed so there's no need to add assumptions against already established functioning.

I don't mind the users I mentioned not being able to post unless opposition arrives as well.

 

[FinePoint]

@SomebodyData @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @Planck69 @KingTempest @Random-Helper323

I was asked to ping y'all.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Since @EldemadeDityjon does not seem willing to help out during these discussions, if I remember correctly, it seems very onesided to only allow them to participate from the opposing side here.

Is there no other articulate and rational member who has a differing opinion from you about this?

I don't think the OP was saying he's "Unwilling to help," it's more so that he was the only one who tends to oppose revisions while giving elaborate and contributive reasons as to why.

Anyway, the premise of the OP looks well made for sure, but I need to make an fyi. Placing quotes within quotes kind of causes text to break off and it won't let me expand further. So you might wish to fix that in the future. But I was able to click edit button and toggle BB code to read the rest of the text then hit cancel when I was done reading. And from there, the proposals in the OP look good to go.

 

[Planck69]

The tier upgrades are fine. I do not think just 4 CRTs is enough for a discussion rule though.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't think the OP was saying he's "Unwilling to help," it's more so that he was the only one who tends to oppose revisions while giving elaborate and contributive reasons as to why.

From what I recall, EldemadeDityjon mentioned it in a private conversation with me and a Tensura supporter.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

From what I recall, EldemadeDityjon mentioned it in a private conversation with me and a Tensura supporter.

Fair enough

The tier upgrades are fine. I do not think just 4 CRTs is enough for a discussion rule though.

I suppose I am more neutral on the discussion rule part as well.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Anyway, the premise of the OP looks well made for sure, but I need to make an fyi. Placing quotes within quotes kind of causes text to break off and it won't let me expand further.

Ah, yes. It happens on PC for me too, and I usually just increase/decease my screen magnification and they get fixed.

So you might wish to fix that in the future. But I was able to click edit button and toggle BB code to read the rest of the text then hit cancel when I was done reading. And from there, the proposals in the OP look good to go.

Alr, I'll take that into account next time and link pictures to each scan :d

The tier upgrades are fine. I do not think just 4 CRTs is enough for a discussion rule though.

I suppose I am more neutral on the discussion rule part as well.

Well, I'd be fine with not include the "worlds and dimensions" rule since it's only based on 1 staff discussion, but for the "are not planets" rule, there are only 4 CRTs yeah, but their total page count is 40 pages, with one of the CRTs even reaching 18 pages alone. Another one reached 12 pages, and even the staff one reached 7 pages.

 

[Elizhaa]

The tiers looks fine. I am neutral about the discussion rules proposals, also.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Well, I'd be fine with not include the "worlds and dimensions" rule since it's only based on 1 staff discussion, but for the "are not planets" rule, there are only 4 CRTs yeah, but their total page count is 40 pages, with one of the CRTs even reaching 18 pages alone. Another one reached 12 pages, and even the staff one reached 7 pages.

So from this:

Do not attempt to downgrade the characters' tier nor the cosmology below Tier 2 based on the premise that Worlds and/or Dimensions are not Tier 2 in size, as this topic has been repeatedly discussed, and in great detail, and received its final conclusion here. Also do not attempt to downgrade Worlds and/or Dimensions based on the premise that "Worlds and Dimensions are the same thing, used interchangeably" as a staff thread has already been made to address that and a unanimous conclusion has been reached.

To this:

Do not attempt to downgrade the characters' tier nor the cosmology below Tier 2 based on the premise that Worlds and/or Dimensions are not Tier 2 in size, as this topic has been repeatedly discussed, and in great detail, and received its final conclusion here.

 

[Elizhaa]

Do not attempt to downgrade the characters' tier nor the cosmology below Tier 2 based on the premise that Worlds and/or Dimensions are not Tier 2 in size, as this topic has been repeatedly discussed, and in great detail, and received its final conclusion here.

I would be fine with the updated rule.

 

[Planck69]

Ah, yes. It happens on PC for me too, and I usually just increase/decease my screen magnification and they get fixed.

Alr, I'll take that into account next time and link pictures to each scan :d


Well, I'd be fine with not include the "worlds and dimensions" rule since it's only based on 1 staff discussion, but for the "are not planets" rule, there are only 4 CRTs yeah, but their total page count is 40 pages, with one of the CRTs even reaching 18 pages alone. Another one reached 12 pages, and even the staff one reached 7 pages.

Those aren't particularly shocking lengths for threads, especially for controversial changes. 40 pages total between four threads is honestly quite tame, since it means only 2 of those had more than 500 posts. That's not anywhere close to enough for a discussion rule.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Those aren't particularly shocking lengths for threads, especially for controversial changes. 40 pages total between four threads is honestly quite tame, since it means only 2 of those had more than 500 posts. That's not anywhere close to enough for a discussion rule.

There were 700~740 (page length: 18) in one and 440~480 (page length: 12) in another, for the most discussed ones. But a lot of them were fairly to very long posts, especially the final thread on it (part 1 on this series) which was filled with very long posts for the most part.

If that's not enough, could you inform me of the required amount of threads/post needed to create a discussion rule? For reference purposes.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

discussion

discussion

It’s not 4 topics, but 5 topics.
All of them were rejected.
And 4 of these topics are very long, and all the comments and replies are very long as well.

And people from TikTok or anywhere else will keep coming here and bringing up the same arguments over and over again without stopping, and this exhausts us as supporters!

Therefore, I believe that setting a discussion rule is necessary here!

Also
If you want to check the length of the replies/crt, I can send a link.

 

[Planck69]

There were 700~740 (page length: 18) in one and 440~480 (page length: 12) in another, for the most discussed ones. But a lot of them were fairly to very long posts, especially the final thread on it (part 1 on this series) which was filled with very long posts for the most part.

If that's not enough, could you inform me of the required amount of threads/post needed to create a discussion rule? For reference purposes.

There's no exact set amount but it is ultimately down to sheer exhaustion of the topic and frequency. Four threads spread across several months to a year shows the topic is controversial but otherwise still not an utterly exhausted topic in my eyes (other staff can give their own view on it). These blanket rules are usually for topics discussed in the order of 6+ threads in my experience.

It’s not 4 topics, but 5 topics.
All of them were rejected.
And 4 of these topics are very long, and all the comments and replies are very long as well.

And people from TikTok or anywhere else will keep coming here and bringing up the same arguments over and over again without stopping, and this exhausts us as supporters!

Therefore, I believe that setting a discussion rule is necessary here!

Also
If you want to check the length of the replies/crt, I can send a link.

See above. And we cannot do anything about what others off site say about our series or come to do here. A blanket discussion rule on downgrades below Tier 2 is a pretty big one and I don't quite think it's at that point. Maybe if one or two more threads like this popped up though.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

See above. And we cannot do anything about what others off site say about our series or come to do here. A blanket discussion rule on downgrades below Tier 2 is a pretty big one and I don't quite think it's at that point. Maybe if one or two more threads like this popped up though.

Ok, thank you
We will wait for more opinions on this.
Can you tag more staff?

 

[Elizhaa]

Looking back, the arguments for planet for worlds seems to have started earlier; there also was a case with a tiktok user who used arguments like with planets and similar for trolling.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

Looking back, the arguments for planet for worlds seems to have started earlier; there also was a case with a tiktok user who used arguments like with planets and similar for trolling.

Yes

And those arguments have been brought up repeatedly.

They have also been rejected repeatedly (no staff member agreed with those arguments).

This point was already discussed clearly here, where all opposing arguments were presented in detail:

A Revision about a World of Slimes - Back to Tier 2 (Cosmology)

Introduction Good morning/evening everyone, hope ya'll are doing fine. Considering Volume 22 has added some more context to what we thought before, I decided to try a revision to get the verse back to Tier 2 in general. As always, avoid any toxic behavior or derailing! Also, don't start...

vsbattles.com

A Revision about a World of Slimes - Back to Tier 2 (Cosmology)

My argument isnt world = planets, it's "other worlds" = planets. World and other worlds are separate concepts in the series. I'm aware of the distinction within the series I was speaking generally in my previous statement if that confused you, then I apologize for being unclear. And since so...

vsbattles.com

And yet, those arguments were debunked and rejected.

Despite that, people from TikTok and other places who hold bias against Tensura keep coming to VSBW to bring up the same arguments over and over again.

For example, this thread:

Thoughts on Reincarnated as slime MTL statement from vol23

So people bring the line from vol23 MTL to says how big the verse "Swimu originally swims between the stars of different worlds, vaster than thousands of universes. Their maximum battle speed reaches sublight speed, and they are a natural disaster that has destroyed countless interstellar...

vsbattles.com

So yes, I think establishing discussion rules here is necessary.

Sorry for the inconvenience, but do Eliza's words and mine change your opinion?

See

Looking back, the arguments for planet for worlds seems to have started earlier; there also was a case with a tiktok user who used arguments like with planets and similar for trolling.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Since @EldemadeDityjon does not seem willing to help out during these discussions, if I remember correctly, it seems very onesided to only allow them to participate from the opposing side here.

Is there no other articulate and rational member who has a differing opinion from you about this?

I'm busy IRL. I won't be able to check anything until 3rd of May. Still can't guarantee I'll be free to reply after that. So they can go ahead with the thread if no others has anything to say about it.

Anyway as for the discussion rule i don't think it's worth it. Planck already mentioned the reasons.

 

[Reiner04]

The tier upgrades are fine. I do not think just 4 CRTs is enough for a discussion rule though.

Additionally, one of those 4 threads, like this one, is simply a continuation of another from remaining 3, since the original CRT became heavily derailed. It’s also worth noting that each CRT introduces different or additional arguments, rather than repeating the same points from previous crts.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I suppose I agree with including a Discussion Rule then.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

I suppose I agree with including a Discussion Rule then.

Thank you for your help here

Can you tag :

@KingTempest
@Random-Helper323
@SomebodyData
@FinePoint
@Just a Random Butler
I wouldn't say no if there were more people as well.
Thank you!

 

[Community_Gamer]

While the topic of Worlds/Dimensions has been extensive but not entirely exhaustive in what's been said so far. So I'm neutral to the discussion rule but agree with everything else

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Thank you for your help here

Can you tag :

@KingTempest
@Random-Helper323
@SomebodyData
@FinePoint
@Just a Random Butler
I wouldn't say no if there were more people as well.
Thank you!

@KingTempest
@Random-Helper323
@SomebodyData
@FinePoint
@Just a Random Butler

Was asked to ping you all.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Scaling seems reasonable.

Given only four CRTs have discussed it but at the same time threads are unnecessarily lengthened by it, I'll have to be neutral on the discussion rule. I can see reasoning both ways on that part.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Scaling seems reasonable.

Given only four CRTs have discussed it but at the same time threads are unnecessarily lengthened by it, I'll have to be neutral on the discussion rule. I can see reasoning both ways on that part.

Would this change your mind?

Looking back, the arguments for planet for worlds seems to have started earlier; there also was a case with a tiktok user who used arguments like with planets and similar for trolling.

 

[SomebodyData]

Though I commented here and (Astral's dm) a while ago, but I guess my messages got ate up.

Regarding the scaling:

Don't have an issue here, this is more of an extension of the previous threads.

Regarding the discussion rule:

I disagree with the notion of a discussion rule unless we've got to the point where real harm has been done. This stance has bit me in the ass more than once but I stand by it here as well.

 

[Random-Helper323]

We typically try to avoid making such rules as much as possible. It's a drastic action, even if there tends to be a bit of leeway on those rules.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Planck69 and SomebodyData here.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Yes, as things currently stand, I think it's best to hold off on making a discussion rule. It's definitely a last resort, not the go-to move.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I'll wait for SomebodyData since I was discussing with them in dms and it was going in a positive direction, but they said they'll continue tomorrow

 

[Random-Helper323]

I would note however that if it continues to be an issue I'm not closed off to the idea of the discussion rule later.

 

[SomebodyData]

I'll wait for SomebodyData since I was discussing with them in dms and it was going in a positive direction, but they said they'll continue tomorrow

Having talked with Astral, I understand the situation a little better. I still don't think it is right to implement the rule yet. Should circumstances change, we can readdress the issue on a later date.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Having talked with Astral, I understand the situation a little better. I still don't think it is right to implement the rule yet. Should circumstances change, we can readdress the issue on a later date.

Alright. In that case this thread is pretty much finished. I'll start implementing the accepted changes (tiering changes)

 

[Antvasima]

Should we close this thread now then?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Should we close this thread now then?

The supporters are still implementing the changes in real time.
Tho if doing that doesn't require this thread to be opened, then yes it can be closed

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

Fight! Destroy! Battle Won! @Astral_Trinity439's wank couldn't be destroyed!

You can close the topic

 

[Antvasima]

Well, let's wait until all the changes have been properly applied.