because goku/beerus were able to nullify the blast meaning they scale to it, zephyro and welt have no evidence of scaling to the explosion + its conditional it gets circular if you say zephyro survived the blast because it goes back to welt clashing infinity/X is still infinity so you'll have 2-A physical welt which goes back to kevin
Can I have some examples? If they’re congruent enough, I can drop the point via standards.
Kevin jumpscare
im fine with it personally i think that naught and SoE are relative (zeroth specifically)
gonna precog goku vs beerus and jiren vs goku in the T.O.P
Because all your points brought up do not even debunk anything about welt contributing to the fight, u literally used separate analogies that have nothing to do with your actual point, and because of that i cant even understand what are you even downgrading or what are you keeping, im literally only disagreeing with welt not scaling to him because theres not a single part of context inside the trailer that said zephyro no diffed welt. not. a. single. one.
And supposed difference is the one has direct scaling and the other downscales cuz the former is stronger and the latter is weaker? is this some quantum physics level difficulty of understanding or is this type of argument only applicable in hoyoverse thread cuz this is first time im seeing anyone argue like you
If anyone debunks this powerscaling standards, and finds an in verse source that makes zephyro this much superior to welt, i will buy them a chocolate, this is how bad arguments come when i have to pull up actual scaling standards to explain to a person why his claim of no diffing and not scaling with 0 actual evidence provided is wrong
Btw, this makes sense for me
You: Welt contributes to 2-A attack
Brother, you just don’t get my point. I’m saying Welt is too weak to downscale. You have to provide proof that he is relative enough for this to be the case.
What does this have to do with the linked message? Do you agree that even Jehoda downscales to Rerir or something?
Because i dont know what kind of argument are u even positing anymore, you literally want zephyro to scale to 2-A via this feat, but also use the IX feat so i just assumed u want to keep IX feat instead while their clash is 3-C so whatever.
The point has been adressed several times
The proof is literally in the trailer, unless u believe terminus is straight up wrong, i dont think i need to repeat something 1000 times. There isnt a single source in the game proving zephyro can no diff welt in any sense and i mean any sense
wow so him having 2-A with SoE is not possible because its the only thing he can use to even clash with zephyro is that? wooow
Can you find a single instance of me agreeing to that, or do you just take me for some monkey who thinks that 1 second clash means something, there isnt even a proof the fight lasted that short that zephyro actually no diffed him
See how jahoda vs rerir is the only thing u believe is actually going against my logic when i never even agreed with jahoda case? in fact rerir has dozens of statements that he can just no diff anyone and everyone whoever comes at him which includes jahoda. What does Zephyro have. a literal explicit statement that fight against him and welt can rupture the cosmos and somehow this is just completely meaning zephyro is no diffing welt and many other nonsensical arguments i just saw.
So, this is just one of the case where Destructive Capacity feats is being conflated to the energy output. 24 planet's output here is through Chadwick's Imaginary Implosion Pulse, not the ones below in particular (Emanator):2) Scepter UES inconsistency
We have this statement of scepters:
Then we have this:
Which is referring to this:
Which um, is basically saying this "UES" construct has galaxy AP but an explicit 24 planets worth of durability. Hm. Very "UES", I know. So basically, UES shouldn't apply for Scepters since they have massive inconsistencies between AP and durability.
This is obviously because they're meant to mimic actual irl technology. Like, a nuke obviously doesn't have nuke-lvl durability. That's absurd.
I believe I don't have to explain (Scepter > Technology capable of capturing Imaginary Energy, in which they used it to capture Path power of a Pathstrider and they said it wasn't strong enough so they tried to capture the Path power of an Emanator instead LMAO)
Genuinely what part of my OP implied I wanted their clash to be 3-C? The entire IX thing was meant for narrative background.
The source is the scene shown, do you want me to like… go over what we literally visually see?
Having to use strongest attack against someone ≠ scaling to that someone
Beyond negative tracking at this point. Do you not know what an analogy is? I can explain it if you want.Can you find a single instance of me agreeing to that, or do you just take me for some monkey who thinks that 1 second clash means something, there isnt even a proof the fight lasted that short that zephyro actually no diffed him
I agree. I don’t wanna keep dealing with so much strawmanning.
Sounds extremely weird for DC not be relevant here, since the entire thing is posited as a bomb/nuke rather than some slash that a character has with arbitrary AP.
So, this is just one of the case where Destructive Capacity feats is being conflated to the energy output. 24 planet's output here is through Chadwick's Imaginary Implosion Pulse, not the ones below in particular (Emanator):
It was directly stated in particular that Emanators colliding would yield in a greater output than Chadwick's bombs that could destroy 24 planets, which is to say that this relates to Amphoreus itself as the previous discussion before this was talking about a Lord Ravager, I suggest watching to the end:
March 7th's statement to say in particular is untrustworthy in this scenario, because it's not just as simple as The Herta destroying the entirety of Amphoreus and preventing Irontomb's birth but rather if The Herta chose this. Well, the yield would be greater.
And finally, we have these:
I believe I don't have to explain (Scepter > Technology capable of capturing Imaginary Energy, in which they used it to capture Path power of a Pathstrider and they said it wasn't strong enough so they tried to capture the Path power of an Emanator instead LMAO)
Lastly, we have a confirmation that Amphoreus is an Emperor's Scepter, to be precise it's the first Scepter ever made by Rubert II:
This thread explains why Irontomb > Emperor's Scepter > Unworthy Scepters capable of annihilating a whole galaxy in the scan:
Basically: Irontomb is capable of wiping out the entire universe, Emperor's Scepter is capable of wiping out half of the universe and the Unworthy Scepters are capable of wiping out a whole galaxy. Emanators are "upscaled" from the Unworthy Scepters previously not only because of UES, but because the Unworthy Scepters are deemed the highest "Pathstrider" feat. Though one could argue the Emperor's Scepter that's capable of wiping out half the universe is also the highest Pathstrider feat since it was done by Rubert II, a Pathstrider of Erudition.Honkai: Star Rail — 3-B + Additions
This calculation is accepted. Scepters are technology created by Rubert II, the Pathstrider of Erudition, and are "poor imitations" of Nous for the unworthy scepters like the Emperor's sword. Scepter δ-me13, the first scepter, is directly part of Nous and destroyed the universe (1-B feat). The...vsbattles.com
So scene just shows zephyro winning? thats all? wheres the no diffing? wheres the statement white hole absolutely dominates black hole with 0 chance of fighting back? wheres the statement it lasted 1 second? where is the statement that zephyro is just no diffing him in any case?
maybe thats why hes only 2-A with SoE
or you think he just physically scales there you know AP is just separate stat too ?negative tracking but still didnt find actual reasoning to explain why is it no diff
crazyAnd? its not like this is a shot after he lost the fight its not like he can actually put up a fight and still job? did i not mention this before or what? why are we acting like character losing=no diffed? hoyoverse scalers are truly something i cant lie, especially when its case of hi3 and hsr stuff
“Nothing we can do” -> also shows Welt jobbing like the rest of AE and being posited as just as hopeless.
I already said that if The Herta were going to destroy Amphoreus, its output is literally stated to exceed the Chadwick Bomb. Like Amphoreus is the same place that has its own space-time continuum inside with their size being 4-A (Multi Solar System). Heck I could argue it to contain galaxies too when Khaslana destroyed multiple galaxies. Like you sometimes forget that Amphoreus contains a Lord Ravager, which is Irontomb.
What I am arguing here is the output of an Emanator is obviously galaxy, we see this when Acheron destroyed the dreamscape (or you can just read her justifications).
remember yall said to let staff handle this. Now yall are going in circlesSo scene just shows zephyro winning? thats all? wheres the no diffing? wheres the statement white hole absolutely dominates black hole with 0 chance of fighting back? wheres the statement it lasted 1 second? where is the statement that zephyro is just no diffing him in any case?
give me 10 actual reasons why would script imply anything else that isnt the power of 2 forces clashing causing all this
maybe thats why hes only 2-A with SoE
negative tracking but still didnt find actual reasoning to explain why is it no diff
And? its not like this is a shot after he lost the fight its not like he can actually put up a fight and still job? did i not mention this before or what? why are we acting like character losing=no diffed? hoyoverse scalers are truly something i cant lie, especially when its case of hi3 and hsr stuff
yeah i see that, guess its up to staff now
Nuke that shit. I was gonna nuke that myself if no one does
because it was silly and in ur example there was no symmetry of force and it was relying on wildly unequal contributions. anyhow, maybe there's more experienced mods that know how to categorize this
cuz the stuff aint ever do anything in those threads. they read only the first post, say "seems fine
" or ask for tldr, read only op's tldr and everything passes
Don't know what crossed your mind to include the Zephyro vs Welt too instead of just the Scepter and IX's NEP3 lol, I'm deadass precogging this shit bro
Sigh.because it was silly and in ur example there was no symmetry of force and it was relying on wildly unequal contributions. anyhow, maybe there's more experienced mods that know how to categorize this
cuz the stuff aint ever do anything in those threads. they read only the first post, say "seems fine
Cuz I thought we had some conclusions on those feats which we apparently don't have. So I was just gonna do all three at the same time. And I don't like making threads for very minor topic, js seems like a waste of energy.Don't know what crossed your mind to include the Zephyro vs Welt too instead of just the Scepter and IX's NEP3 lol, I'm deadass precogging this shit bro
Well, I guess I have to make this thread since apparently some things resolved last chainscale CRT weren't actually resolved. Luckily, they're pretty damn simple things so ts won't take a while (hopefully)
1) Zephyro Nuke
So we have Welt scale to High 1-C cuz of this:
What we saw:
What Welt bros saw:
If you don't see the problem, it's that for some reason, we are assuming that Welt even remotely scales to Zephyro here. And if you're too lazy to watch the vid, don't worry, I'll explain:
For some reason, we have this completely assymetrical showing of power somehow making Welt be equivalent to Zephyro, even though he's not only the one who effortlessly destroyed him, but also we know it's in general his power since we have Zephyro do the same feat (in another possible future) with IX:
- The vid starts off with the first scan posted here
- Almost immediately after, we have Zephyro's White Hole completely engulf that of Welt's, in which then does the universe rapture.
- We are also stated that this is the one future that is completely hopeless for us (facing Zephyro)
The thematic importance here is that Zephyro controlling White Holes, the antithesis to Black Holes, has the ability to make extremely violent attacks when reacting with such Black Holes. And in both cases, it is a feat propagated by him.
There is no reason for Welt to scale to this. Genuinely at all. It wouldn't even make sense anyhow.
For the holding back part, we know it to be the case because he did it clearly did it with Khaslana. There's nothing to say he won't do it again. Unless you wanna argue he didn't do it with him either(?), in which case we can disagree on that as well
The visuals given in regards to "devouring each other" just don't imply the same weight as the statement does (since they don't do that at all). Which really just implies a clash of sorts, which is what happens, but I js don't believe that clash is enough to downscale.
The entire scene last around 5 seconds~, in which neither character moves as the camera pans a bit to let us take in the scene almost in the form of a freeze-frame, before immediately cutting to Zephyro overtaking Welt in a few frames. Might seem nitpicky, tho, but ig the whole thread is based on interpretation.
(yes, it is vibescaling) Cuz like Hoyo lwk kinda does this a lot, wherein they allow some time in confrontations before getting the other party immediately jobbed
Fun fact Zephyro was specifically tasked to hold back against phainon by just testing his flames. now prove he was tasked to do the same against expres, literally castorice level argument holy shit
Ig terminus is less reliable then, since i didnt know that statement explicitly saying they clash with their power doesnt mean they actually do that, and its instead some random ass clash done just for whatever reason whwre zephyro no diffed or sum shit, this is what i see from the comment
The scene wasnt frozen, you can still see the effects of black hole and white hole actually clashing, the only ones that are still are zephyro and welt obviously showing us who are the mofos fighting.The entire scene last around 5 seconds~, in which neither character moves as the camera pans a bit to let us take in the scene almost in the form of a freeze-frame, before immediately cutting to Zephyro overtaking Welt in a few frames. Might seem nitpicky, tho, but ig the whole thread is based on interpretation.
Wait, whats the reason for Zephyro letting Phainon get WCB again...
Yeah I do, we see FireNon ignore Zephyro entirely and then destroy 3/4 galaxies by running past. If we assume Zephyro is galaxy-level, then a non-firenon being mid/low-diffed makes sense. I genuinely think FireNon > Zephyro and he couldn't stop him from getting the world cleansing blood.
That's fair but we can agree to disagree on that. Everyone will have their own differing opinions of if the visuals or the localisation is more important in this scene and it genuinely won't resolve because the two semi-contradict. It legitimately depends on the below, whether you believe it's a freeze-frame or not.
Cause you can argue it's not an actual freezeframe and the two are legitimately going equal in that moment, or you can argue that it's a freezeframe. We don't have enough info to even know how long the fight was going on for beforehand, etc. The scene is so up to interpretation that I genuinely do think a discussion rule could be made on it. This argument could easily continue until we get new material.The entire scene last around 5 seconds~, in which neither character moves as the camera pans a bit to let us take in the scene almost in the form of a freeze-frame, before immediately cutting to Zephyro overtaking Welt in a few frames. Might seem nitpicky, tho, but ig the whole thread is based on interpretation.
Personally sent by nanook to test if bro is tuff or not and await irontomb to wake up, as for phainon scratching nanook thats his own thing ig
I mean the intent was pretty clear tho... the entire situation spawned due to Khaslana. He's the one who pulled up to Nanook in Path Space and I doubt Nanook can't feel his energy levels...
Ye I'll js wait to heard what mods think. Especially debating whats a characters personality is pure slop...
I'ma do that too...
I still need your thoughts on that scan Broskie
If I have to talk about Irontomb mechanics one more time today Im ending it bro
Trust in the Irontomb > Khaslana meta
I still agrre eith this
The sky is blue ahhh meta brah
