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does this qualify for high godly regen...?
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regenerating from past, present, and future erasure
- Thread starter Robo432343
- Start date
- 11,450
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Isn't this Zamasu
- 14,997
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- Thread starter
- #4
@Hecky2222 is it???
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Did the character in question also get erased across past, present and future?
- 14,997
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- Thread starter
- #7
yes
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That is HGR indeed, unless there were another weird shit like soul or mind independent from history
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@Robo432343 leak it to LARPzerty now
- 14,997
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- Thread starter
- #10
but why are we assuming history contains the soul
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By default standards we don't assume, Info, Concept = Soul, Mind which is why destruction and regeneration from info or something only + body won't give you HGR by default. And how we are assuming Past-Present-Future contains your mind and soul? What makes History superior to other metaphysical aspects?
- 14,997
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- Thread starter
- #13
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It also tells
The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence.
Meaning it is at least one of other aspects. Not full mind and soul. Or else given by your link we should assume concept, plot, info nuking is soul and mind nuking too
- 14,997
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- Thread starter
- #15
yes
read carefully
High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Such an aspect could be their place in the narrative, their history, their information (Type 2), their concept, or something else along those lines.
read carefully
High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Such an aspect could be their place in the narrative, their history, their information (Type 2), their concept, or something else along those lines.
Tanin_iver
He/Him- 1,075
- 913
Honestly, the nomenclature is shit. Should just be Godly regen, no need of Low, Mid, or High, just Godly for regenning from complete erasure and elaborating on which aspects it regenned from.
- 14,997
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- Thread starter
- #17
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- Thread starter
- #18
we should nuke history regen
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???
1. If you get info 2 erased or conceptually erased, your soul, mind and consciousness are also considered to be erased as well unless proven otherwise
2. Bro, if you get erased across time, you are retroactively not even in exist in the first place. So if you didn't born, do you have body, soul or a mind?
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Seems like textbook History erasure here, unless some weird ***** happens
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I remember discussing it with MGK supporters. Agnaa already pointed out that. I dont disagree with idea we should assume metaphysical parts govern reality which includes soul and mind also. But we don't have proof about "Nuking Metaphysical Aspect nukes your soul and mind in return"
Otherwise Regeneration page would tell us "High Godly regen is erasure of body and metaphysical aspect" instead of Body, Soul, Mind + Metaphysical Aspect
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This is entirely depends on the contexts and feats anyway, if you have a statement such as A's very concept of existence was erases and dude was erased from existence, i think we can safely assume that A soul, mind and consciousness, body get erased as well. Like said concept made up his very existence which should include his body, soul, mind and consciousness.
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This somewhat implies metaphysical aspects govern soul and mind also
The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background.
If anything, it feels like regeneration page wording seems bit misleading if we by default assume Metaphysical and Body Erasure would be HGR, since Regeneration Page somewhat implies Soul, Mind + Metaphysical Aspect,in that case rewording page bit and pointing out some issues in my opinion would be better.
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Let be real, if metaphysical erasure do not lead to your existence getting erased then it isn't even existence erasure in the first place, which in turn no godly regen.
And actually not all metaphysical erasure actually erase your existence. Such as you can destroy a certain concept, does not mean existence of someone getting erased if said concept do not define and govern over said person existence
And actually not all metaphysical erasure actually erase your existence. Such as you can destroy a certain concept, does not mean existence of someone getting erased if said concept do not define and govern over said person existence
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The reason why history EE falls under high godly was already explained above, if you are unmade throughout time such that you were never born, then that's high godly by our standards unless the verse goes out of it's way to explain that the soul/mind/whatever other intangible aspect of self is timeless and thus not affected by your unmaking, but most verses will not do so anyways, and I could imagine or argue for those that the resulting regeneration would be an effective high godly anyways
The godly levels are as simply defined by degrees of complete erasure:
Following how the lower layers works, each degree is an escalation of the previous level in ways that are simply incapable of a lower level to perform (and still live)
If your body gets erased, that's low godly as all physical aspects of your existence have ceased to be, and thus to regenerate from that would require intervention on the part a non-physical aspect of your existence
If such an intervention typically comes from your spiritual aspects of being, and of which getting that + your body erased makes mid-godly (not high godly given most verses do not have the spiritual aspects govern or inform the physical body, and instead either are the consciousness or some ill defined ghost bullshit), the reason as to why it is greater than low godly, beyond simple intuition of "More things = better", is that fundamentally, someone with Low Godly cannot come back from that degree of erasure, even were the regeneration itself involuntary and not dependent upon the mind/soul/whatever else, whenever the body comes back, it wouldn't actually be able to act or do anything, as they have no consciousness with which to act, seeing as they lack the mind/soul. The reason why it asks for the complete destruction of the mind and soul is because we want a complete spiritual erasure, same as with low godly, if someone's entire body bar their heart or brain was erased, and they came back, we certainly wouldn't give them low godly, seeing as there is still something left over.
Beyond that is high godly, which is physical + spiritual + whatever grounds these aspects, not just the metaphysical ones (maybe, read on as to see why). This is both intuitively understandable, but has a further degree of logic present similar to mid godly, as to use the example already within the thread, if you are retrocausally unmade, your place in the timeline removed, fundamentally no lesser regeneration could bring you back, as speaking on the simply side of things, your birth never happened so that your spiritual and physical beings might come into existence, beyond that, if a verse clarified and explained how the spiritual world was timeless in one way or another, and you had a degree of low godly present, logically, you still couldn't come back into being as you still haven't "happened" yet, so to speak, similar principles apply to the other metaphysical aspects in the case of the existence of a spiritual aspect whose presence is independent of those fundamental aspects (though, if I am to be completely blunt for a moment, our dependence upon the preordained and ignorance of anything beyond such being equally metaphysical or foundational for regen and beyond is bullshit, if a soul can exist independently or superordinate of a concept, then it clearly isn't just a simple spiritual aspect anymore, is it? Same principle applies for whenever a verse actually defines their soul as being foundational to the body, and gods forbid people try and claim the concept of a person's own existence somehow isn't foundational enough for them to get high godly because it's "type 3".)
I'd also bring up and go into depth about what used to be true godly (the erasure of everything up to and including your cosmology), which worked by similar means, by to a greater extent, by erasing not just the totality of one's personal context, but the context of reality altogether, as that put simply is just more fundamental than any level of high godly, but the matter is wholly verse dependent and I'd rather not go into depth because I'd rather not have it be misconstrued by people who don't understand why it is that it's more fundamental before trying to apply such to their verse (along with the fact that True Godly no longer exists, but it would be to explain why the level works that way)
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Sure, the term 'metaphysical' is polysemous, but I don't think the VSBW definition is vague. Existence is composed of physical aspects and metaphysical aspects—the latter being beyond physics as we know it.
Let's take subject A: they would have Mid-Godly regeneration if their physical form (body) and their metaphysical part (soul or spirit) were erased. This could also be called essence, Dao, or even ether depending on the case ; regardless, it remains intrinsic and exclusive to subject A. Now, regarding the part where VSBW mentions 'another important metaphysical aspect'—like Type 2 Information, their concept, or their place in the narrative—that metaphysical aspect is essentially what precedes A's existence. It's not a metaphysical aspect that constitutes their being itself, but it is considered metaphysical since it stays beyond physics.
Now, concerning the feat here: erasing someone from the past, present, and future (essentially from the timeline) can signify an erasure from history, but it depends on the context, especially since Type 3 Acausality exists. You can erase someone from the timeline without necessarily erasing their place in history. However, in this context, I think we are talking about their place in history because the Grand Sage mentions right after that he will forget their place in history. So, yeah, if we assume the same thing happened with UEG, then why not
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Still High-Godly, damaging soul is a completely different thing that not related to history, erase history mean you make the dude never born thus of course including every about the dude.
Unless the verse establish that soul isn't a thing in the verse which make everyone have no soul, then we now have an issue.
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No like the soul just simply isn't mentioned anywhere. Like it's just a regular human verse
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well, by default we assume they will have soul, and no, please, don't ask me why, iirc there were a question like this in past, few years ago, someone asked a similar question
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It's probably verse equalization. Just like how we assume everyone has plot or information even though they aren't specified to exist.
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^
While it's a mite bit of a different reason, seeing as some verses are far more materialistic than others, the exact reason is so that soul powers, which are common in fiction, do not simply just cease to function in a verse wherein souls do not exist and the world can still function as normal, as all typical functions of what VSBW assumes the soul to be at a baseline can belong to purely physical processes, but in the case of like, someone not having a concept that dictates their existence, then the consequences become far more blantant as to how they'd lack them without issues popping up
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If that is in conjunction with their body and soul/mind, then yes.
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No.
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Then I suppose only statements about Past, Present and Future qualify for History? (And direct mentioning of History)
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Pretty much. Also Fate Erasure, due to erasing of their Future.
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Let's say there is a fundamental building block (information) that makes up fate (among much more) and some reality warping destructive force can supposedly "strip" this information, does this relate to manipulating/destroying history?
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"strip" in what way?
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