Murder Drones CRT: Black Hole Calculation Removal

[Starfall-Endowment]

That's what an easter egg is, for the record.

That aside, I'm obviously not ignoring evidence. The very fact that it is accounted for at all makes this obvious. But the evidence is weaker for the fact that it isn't given any actual credence in the show, and is presented by the showrunners as a joke than some hard-established rule of the verse.

Is Easter eggs invalid? Because Murder Drones storytelling most of the time is based on checking backgrounds details to properly understand the lore of it.

 

[Niko]

That's what an easter egg is, for the record.

That aside, I'm obviously not ignoring evidence. The very fact that it is accounted for at all makes this obvious. But the evidence is weaker for the fact that it isn't given any actual credence in the show, and is presented by the showrunners as a joke than some hard-established rule of the verse.

I'll clarify this. The equations and the drawings made by Nori in the storage room in episode 4, a dead lab subject drone in the wooden cabin in episode 4, and the notes in the board in episode 7, are all part of the lore and have lore context, they are like hidden clues like you see in video games when you collect the hidden notes, audios or description of a weapon from the past etc.

The easter eggs are just the memes like cool S drawing and grinning emoji with shades.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Is Easter eggs invalid? Because Murder Drones storytelling most of the time is based on checking backgrounds details to properly understand the lore of it.

I feel as though I'm not really being listened to, and this is going to be the same circles the thread was in before.

No. I've already said they're valid, but validity is a spectrum. Much like we would take direct feats from a book over its movie adaptation (if both were equally canon), so too are there stronger and weaker pieces of evidence. This falls into the "weaker" category.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'll clarify this. The equations and the drawings made by Nori in the storage room in episode 4, a dead lab subject drone in the wooden cabin in episode 4, and the notes in the board in episode 7, are all part of the lore and have lore context, they are like hidden clues like you see in video games when you collect the hidden notes, audios or description of a weapon from the past etc.

The easter eggs are just the memes like cool S drawing and grinning emoji with shades.

This isn't really true, in the very first piece of evidence presented before, the emoji and the text are inseparable, both are obviously meant to be humorous. Both are elements of the easter egg.

 

[Starfall-Endowment]

I feel as though I'm not really being listened to, and this is going to be the same circles the thread was in before.

No. I've already said they're valid, but validity is a spectrum. Much like we would take direct feats from a book over its movie adaptation (if both were equally canon), so too are there stronger and weaker pieces of evidence. This falls into the "weaker" category.

Oh, sorry i'm just normally checking this thread only now

Ah okay i understand now.

 

[FinePoint]

Anyway, I've already said that I don't think it's a real black hole, but following Bambu's input I think we should indeed find a replacement feat.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Even if they are not legitimate black holes, can't we still calculate the visible destruction they cause? I'm pretty much a NULL is used to blow a hole in a planet by Uzi at one point, that might yield something impressive methinks.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Even if they are not legitimate black holes, can't we still calculate the visible destruction they cause? I'm pretty much a NULL is used to blow a hole in a planet by Uzi at one point, that might yield something impressive methinks.

Yeah, you could probably do so.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Yeah, you could probably do so.

I'll see if I can get something done by the end of the week.

 

[Kirua29]

I don't really want to get into this, to lengthen this discussion unnecessarily. The thread is too long and has been in circles for a long time. So, I will post this one thing, and that will be that. I will then ask us to begin changing the verse to reflect the fact that we wouldn't consider these black holes.

1. Easter egg, already addressed, non-serious.
2. Tertiary piece of evidence, "singularity" has other meanings, and the AI singularity could reasonably apply, I believe.
3. Earth produces gravitational waves, this is just a nothing burger.
4. Lots of math there, vague evidence. Also not strictly connected to black holes.
5. Tertiary evidence, presented as an easter egg.
6. Tertiary evidence, the phrase "black hole" itself is so overused that it borders on irrelevance.
7. So they don't operate as black holes would. For this to work, it requires a very particular interpretation, which isn't strictly true.
8. Tertiary evidence, see point 6.
9. This is a property of sufficient gravity. Again, every trait you've been describing as a black hole having, Earth also has.

The counter evidence has no complications to it. I'm voting that these should be removed. I would like us to discuss what to do with the verse now that these are not regarded to be black holes. I have been told that the next best feats are probably Tier 5, now would be the time to conjure those for use.

Regarding every single point without exception, we are not facing isolated details, but a coherent succession of evidence. Separately, one might attempt to downplay them, but together, they form an undeniable constant. You know the expression: "Once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, three times is a constant." Here, we passed that stage a long time ago.

1 : They are not really "Easter eggs" in the sense of just being jokes or references, because Glitch called them "extra details" and confirmed their canonicity, encouraging people to look for these extra details. So, with this sentence, he once again confirms the canonicity of this.

This also answers what you said to Niko.

This isn't really true, in the very first piece of evidence presented before, the emoji and the text are inseparable, both are obviously meant to be humorous. Both are elements of the easter egg.

because just because there's an emoji doesn't mean it's not an important part of the lore, especially since Murder Drones is a horror-comedy series, and they already addressed one of those "memes" as actual part of the lore. The thing with the dog planet that strongly resembles a joke is canon and confirmed by the production team.

2: The "technological singularity" argument does not hold up. This is clearly foreshadowing the destruction of Earth seen in Episode 6. The note mentions a catastrophe related to a singularity; this is the only element of the lore that corresponds to that—the annihilation of the planet by the Null. The fact that this "Easter egg" exists well before the airing of Episode 6 proves that the black hole identity has been anchored in the script from the beginning. Furthermore, there is never any mention of an "AI singularity" in a way that would contradict the context of the show. Labeling it as anything other than a black hole creates a contradiction with the main plot line.

3: The counter-argument seems to be nitpicking. The standard gravitational wave process through the controlled collision of black holes is a known factor; we already know they can control gravitational force.

4: These calculations cannot be qualified as vague or be ignored. These are actual memory files from Nori’s mind (Uzi’s mother). Most of these memories were sent by the Absolute Solver itself. These pages are vital pieces of lore, not background noise. We know these files are objective because they allowed Nori to predict future events with absolute precision—such as the arrival of the disassembly drones on Copper 9 and the necessity of building the doors. If the Solver sent these files, the information they contain is fundamental.

5: Furthermore, the specific use of the Schwarzschild radius is not mere decoration: it is the precise mathematical equation that defines the event horizon of a black hole. It is not a random choice.

6: In the "short" showing the behind-the-scenes animation, every visual element is labeled to guide the animators. At the moment the Null appears, it is explicitly designated as a "black hole." This is direct, documented proof of the creators' intent. This concretely justifies why the Null must be considered as such.

7: I do not quite understand what you are trying to prove with this point, given that even if it does not correspond 100% to a black hole, it corresponds to at least 90%, with an addition related to the series' lore. In no case does the creation of a black hole require it to be 100% accurate; otherwise, we would have to remove all black hole features because no series has a 100% realistic black hole, not even Interstellar.

8: The authority of the author: Liam Vickers isn't just a staff member; he is the author and screenwriter of the series. If he draws the original concepts describing the administrators' cores as black holes, his authority is absolute. These points have already been extensively explained and validated by the source material.

9: Gravitational Physics: Comparing the Null to Earth's gravity is not relevant. If the Null is capable of producing gravitational lensing (bending light and space) visible to the naked eye at this scale, it implies a mass density infinitely superior to that of the Earth. This is a property exclusive to massive compact objects like black holes. and in episode 7 Yeva's visor and head on the otherside of Nori's Null get's bent which supports the general relativity estabilished in the verse as light follows the curvature of spacetime, hence when light passes around a massive object, it is bent. This means that the light from an object on the other side will be bent towards an observer's eye, just like an ordinary lens. this is called gravitational lensing. same thing happens to the core's. look at the gif.

Furthermore, I refuted the opposing evidence by proving that the null has an attraction that can be modified; in fiction, a black hole in a series should never be 100% realistic, like i already said and wanting to remove these proofs by labeling them "tertiary" or a "nothing burger" amounts to willfully ignoring a body of consistent evidence (mathematical, visual, and narrative). The quantity of evidence ultimately defines the nature of the object: it is a black hole by definition and by authorial intent.

 

[Kirua29]

Even if they are not legitimate black holes, can't we still calculate the visible destruction they cause? I'm pretty much a NULL is used to blow a hole in a planet by Uzi at one point, that might yield something impressive methinks.

I’ve already calculated the kinetic energy during that event, but so far I haven’t received any concrete verification from a CGM.

 

[Kirua29]

@Psychomaster35 We could really use your help on this thread if you’re available—it’s urgent and important. It’s about the 4-B rating of Murder Drones.

 

[AyOgUyS]

I’ve already calculated the kinetic energy during that event, but so far I haven’t received any concrete verification from a CGM.

Alright. I will hold off on calcing for now then.

 

[Kirua29]

Alright. I will hold off on calcing for now then.

here if you want : https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...the_null_throw_by_Uzi_on_cooper9_in_episode_8

 

[AyOgUyS]

here if you want : https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...the_null_throw_by_Uzi_on_cooper9_in_episode_8

have you put this in calc evaluations thread?

 

[Kirua29]

have you put this in calc evaluations thread?

Yes It's been more than a month, and I get a bump every 14 days., and I asked several CGMs directly; either they didn't answer, or they told me they don't do that kind of feats.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm not going to get into a big back and forth about this. Two staff members have evaluated the evidence separately, both have agreed that it is not sufficient to support Nulls being treated as black holes in our calculations. At this point, there is simply a disagreement in the strength of the evidence, and you are welcome to an opinion that differs from mine.

I'm going to leave this open a few days. In that time, I am hoping that @AyOgUyS does his calculation of a Null destroying part of a planet, since it is my understanding this would be the next best feat. Failing that, I will need to be provided the next best feat. This thread will not drag on for another eternity when it spent several months winding away already.

 

[Starfall-Endowment]

Alright. I will hold off on calcing for now then.

Which feat specifically?

 

[Starfall-Endowment]

I'm not going to get into a big back and forth about this. Two staff members have evaluated the evidence separately, both have agreed that it is not sufficient to support Nulls being treated as black holes in our calculations. At this point, there is simply a disagreement in the strength of the evidence, and you are welcome to an opinion that differs from mine.

I'm going to leave this open a few days. In that time, I am hoping that @AyOgUyS does his calculation of a Null destroying part of a planet, since it is my understanding this would be the next best feat. Failing that, I will need to be provided the next best feat. This thread will not drag on for another eternity when it spent several months winding away already.

I'm pretty sure Psychomaster calculated this already? It's the 701 Zetattons feat on the Murder Drones Page No?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Is it? My impression was that there was a hole blown in a planet or something to that effect, whereas this looks like it's a planet outright blowing up.

If that is it, then it is a good feat to fall back on. The verse would fall to 5-B. I'll still leave this open a bit to hear other opinions, possible other feats.

 

[Starfall-Endowment]

Is it? My impression was that there was a hole blown in a planet or something to that effect, whereas this looks like it's a planet outright blowing up.

If that is it, then it is a good feat to fall back on. The verse would fall to 5-B. I'll still leave this open a bit to hear other opinions, possible other feats.

Alright!

 

[Kirua29]

I'm not going to get into a big back and forth about this. Two staff members have evaluated the evidence separately, both have agreed that it is not sufficient to support Nulls being treated as black holes in our calculations. At this point, there is simply a disagreement in the strength of the evidence, and you are welcome to an opinion that differs from mine.

I'm going to leave this open a few days. In that time, I am hoping that @AyOgUyS does his calculation of a Null destroying part of a planet, since it is my understanding this would be the next best feat. Failing that, I will need to be provided the next best feat. This thread will not drag on for another eternity when it spent several months winding away already.

I have a power scaling question for you. If the lore establishes that Cyn has already destroyed the Proxyma Centauri system, can we make it a Solar System again, but not through calculation?

On a computer that tracks the damage caused by Cyn in the universe, including what it has destroyed, the Proxyma system is listed as destroyed.

What do you think ? Could it fit in a CRT ?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I have a power scaling question for you. If the lore establishes that Cyn has already destroyed the Proxyma Centauri system, can we make it a Solar System again, but not through calculation?

On a computer that tracks the damage caused by Cyn in the universe, including what it has destroyed, the Proxyma system is listed as destroyed.

What do you think ? Could it fit in a CRT ?

Is there any timeframe given for the feat? The statement itself is usable, but we couldn't call it 4-B unless there was some decent evidence it was done in one attack.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Is there any timeframe given for the feat? The statement itself is usable, but we couldn't call it 4-B unless there was some decent evidence it was done in one attack.

they do it 1 by 1 for each planet/star overtime, though even for just 1 it also takes some time to grow to be able to destroy the full planet. I gave further context on this other unconcluded thread here regarding specifics and scans.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Then yeah, no reason we'd ever give 4-B for that. We calculate feats as either one swift motion, or one second of an overtime process, as their AP.

 

[Kirua29]

Is there any timeframe given for the feat? The statement itself is usable, but we couldn't call it 4-B unless there was some decent evidence it was done in one attack.

Oh, sorry, I forgot. Basically, in episode 6 at 11:08, as already mentioned, we can see the computer of the Cooper 9 scientists cataloging the damage caused by Cyn in the universe. We know, for example, that she destroyed Earth, a flat binary system (which corresponds to Star Level), and Proxyma Centauri.

Since we know that Earth was destroyed, and that it's considered Planet Level for that reason, and that Earth and the Proxyma system are listed in the destruction list, Therefore, we can conclude, using semantic logic, that the Centauri system is destroyed, just like Earth.

The reason Cyn destroyed these places is because she's trying to commit genocide. In Murder Drones, which takes place in the year 3000, humans have created colonies in the universe, and Cyn wants to eradicate our species.

edit : If we use semantic logic and the Proxyma system is marked as destroyed, and not the names of the planets as with Earth, it means that the entire system is destroyed, not one by one as Amy says. Because if that were the case, the names of the planets of proxyma would be listed one by one, except that's not the case.

second edit : The destruction of the earth cannot be created in overtime either, because the creation of the null only lasted 07/30 seconds because it created the null which destroyed the earth in 7 frames.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't really think that's necessarily true? I believe that the system is destroyed, rather than the planet, but I don't agree that they would change how they listed destruction based on how long it took them to do it. That doesn't really track.

 

[Kirua29]

I don't really think that's necessarily true? I believe that the system is destroyed, rather than the planet,

Sorry, but I didn't understand this part.

but I don't agree that they would change how they listed destruction based on how long it took them to do it. That doesn't really track.

There's a slight misunderstanding; the 0,2s is for Earth, not Proxyma. For Proxyma, it's unknown, but it shouldn't be much longer. If it takes Cyn to create a null nucleus large enough to destroy Earth, then destroying Proxyma's system shouldn't take much longer, I think, but I haven't done the calculation.

edit : Proxima Centauri has a diameter of 214,500,000 meters, while the Null that destroyed Earth was calculated at 54,311,000 meters. To find the difference in scale, we divide the two, which gives a ratio of approximately 3.94. If we apply this to the timeframe, multiplying the 0.26 seconds (Earth's destruction) by 3.94, we get roughly 0,788 seconds. This timeframe is extremely short, which supports the feat being done in a single, nearly instantaneous attack rather than over a long period.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You're editing a lot, which is making it a bit hard to understand what it is you're trying to argue.

You want to argue that the Null that destroyed the Earth, also destroyed the solar system, and thus the Null that destroyed Proxyma Centauri would also be similarly low. But why would one Null have been used to do that? I would want pretty explicit evidence of that, beyond what you've provided; do you have that?

 

[Kirua29]

You're editing a lot, which is making it a bit hard to understand what it is you're trying to argue.

You want to argue that the Null that destroyed the Earth, also destroyed the solar system, and thus the Null that destroyed Proxyma Centauri would also be similarly low. But why would one Null have been used to do that? I would want pretty explicit evidence of that, beyond what you've provided; do you have that?

Oh no, not at all, sorry, I'll stop editing and I'll send a second message instead if I want to add something.

But basically the destruction of Earth and Proxyma are two separate feats, otherwise it would be Multi Solar and I don't have proof to say that it's the same feat, but what I mean is if it took Cyn 0.2 seconds to destroy Earth, it would then take 0.788 seconds for Proxyma, which is still short. thats all.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

No, I understood what you meant. I just don't really see why we'd come to that conclusion. Destroying Earth isn't the same as destroying Proxyma, destroying the planet isn't the same as destroying a system. I didn't understand at first what you were trying to argue above, about "Earth" being the entire Sol system, but I don't think that's correct. Even the video you use for this shows Earth, the planet, destroyed, with a very conspicuously undestroyed moon right there.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Oh no, not at all, sorry, I'll stop editing and I'll send a second message instead if I want to add something.

But basically the destruction of Earth and Proxyma are two separate feats, otherwise it would be Multi Solar and I don't have proof to say that it's the same feat, but what I mean is if it took Cyn 0.2 seconds to destroy Earth, it would then take 0.788 seconds for Proxyma, which is still short. thats all.

these time frames dont really make sense, considering cyn doesnt destroy copper 9 (another earth like planet humans previously lived in) with their null instantly after what they did in the end of episode 7 where theres a small time gap where uzi gets knocked out and pieces of the planet start slowly bursting off, and the entirely of episode 8 happens, and even after everything went down the entire like 20 minute episode, it wasnt near complete destruction as they were able to stop cyn. Its much more likely she makes these singularities that gradually get stronger and cause eventual global destruction overtime just like we see with copper 9, but she cant instantly whip out one of that capacity to instantly destroy a planet/star

 

[Kirua29]

You're editing a lot, which is making it a bit hard to understand what it is you're trying to argue.

You want to argue that the Null that destroyed the Earth, also destroyed the solar system, and thus the Null that destroyed Proxyma Centauri would also be similarly low. But why would one Null have been used to do that? I would want pretty explicit evidence of that, beyond what you've provided; do you have that?

I have an idea: what if I said in my CRT, at least large star, because the star of proxyma is a large star, If we consider it to be a one-by-one destruction, which I don't believe at all, it's at the very least a large star and possible solar system ?

 

[Kirua29]

these time frames dont really make sense, considering cyn doesnt destroy copper 9 (another earth like planet humans previously lived in) with their null instantly after what they did in the end of episode 7 where theres a small time gap where uzi gets knocked out and pieces of the planet start slowly bursting off, and the entirely of episode 8 happens, and even after everything went down the entire like 20 minute episode, it wasnt near complete destruction as they were able to stop cyn.

Cyn stopped the destruction of Cooper 9 to fight, so that's not an argument. Moreover, the Null that was supposed to destroy Copper 9 was also created very quickly, and it didn’t follow the same method of destruction. For Copper 9, it attacks from the center, whereas for Earth, it created the Null in space and then launched it toward the planet. This simply shows that the time it takes depends on Cyn’s intent. But if she wants it, it can be very quick; the only thing that might be frustrating is her personality. But if she wants to, it can be very fast; the only thing that nerfs it is her personality.

 

[Kirua29]

No, I understood what you meant. I just don't really see why we'd come to that conclusion. Destroying Earth isn't the same as destroying Proxyma, destroying the planet isn't the same as destroying a system. I didn't understand at first what you were trying to argue above, about "Earth" being the entire Sol system, but I don't think that's correct. Even the video you use for this shows Earth, the planet, destroyed, with a very conspicuously undestroyed moon right there.

That’s not what I said—I’ll explain it better in my CRT. Basically, Cyn destroyed Earth (the planet in our solar system), and it only took her about 0.2 seconds to create the Null that did it.

Second feat: she also destroyed Proxima using another Null, since there was a human colony there as well. She likely used a JcJenson company pod to get there, then destroyed the Proxima system, which would qualify as a solar system–level feat. I’ll provide all the evidence I have for this in my CRT, but I think I’ve already covered everything unless I missed something.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It doesn't make sense to say they destroyed a planet in 0.2 seconds by generating the Null, then saying that it would logically only require 1 second (give or take) to destroy an entire solar system.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Cyn stopped the destruction of Cooper 9 to fight,

headcanon and never suggested, we see the tentacles coming from the singularity still active much later, nothing suggesting that it actively stopped.

Moreover, the Null that was supposed to destroy Copper 9 was also created very quickly

You can't just ignore the fact that it gradually gets stronger and more ranged overtime, its quite literally shown that its no where near the scale of earths post destruction at the start.

For Copper 9, it attacks from the center, whereas for Earth, it created the Null in space and then launched it toward the planet.

We never see the destruction of earth with the singularity on screen so thats just not true or even suggested and the null is clearly coming from the earth of the core too. its very clearly the same case of destructive method, but for the case of earth no one was able to stop it as it grew overtime.

This simply shows that the time it takes depends on Cyn’s intent. But if she wants it, it can be very quick; the only thing that might be frustrating is her personality. But if she wants to, it can be very fast; the only thing that nerfs it is her personality.

no proof she can do it instantly to begin with, so you're relying on an big assumption that we directly see otherwise on screen for.

 

[Kirua29]

It doesn't make sense to say they destroyed a planet in 0.2 seconds by generating the Null, then saying that it would logically only require 1 second (give or take) to destroy an entire solar system.

The Null that destroyed Earth measured 54,311,000 meters and was created in 0.2 seconds. Proxima measures 214,500,000 meters, so it would take roughly 1 second to create a Null large enough to engulf everything.

 

[Camerontaylor07]

To clarify somewhat, I believe what he is referring to is the following scene, where the computer displays a series of circles labelled various solar systems and then marks them as destroyed. I don't remember if the computer provided dates

Also, I don't know if this monster of a thread has already been, but the storyboards directly call Nulls specifically black holes, and there's also an example of them being created by immense compression Story board screenshot Has the screenshot of the compression thing sorry for the Reddit posts but I don't know how to make a video open at a specific time

 

[Kirua29]

headcanon and never suggested, we see the tentacles coming from the singularity still active much later, nothing suggesting that it actively stopped.

Exactly, that shows that when she thought she had won, she resumed the destruction, and then it stopped again afterward. bc Uzi is finaly not dead, because we never see her do something similar before or after, so it proves what I said.

You can't just ignore the fact that it gradually gets stronger and more ranged overtime, its quite literally shown that its no where near the scale of earths post destruction at the start.

No, it was never shown that a Null can continue to grow after its creation; its final size is already seen at the beginning of episode 8. But I have to admit something: the one that’s supposed to destroy Copper 9 takes longer to be created than the one that destroyed Earth (even if it's not by much). So I’m withdrawing my argument that it would take about 1 second to destroy Proxima, since it just depends on the scene and there doesn’t seem to be a consistent logic to it. However, I’m not retracting the fact that it took 0.2 seconds for Earth based on my calculation.

We never see the destruction of earth with the singularity on screen so thats just not true or even suggested and the null is clearly coming from the earth of the core too. its very clearly the same case of destructive method, but for the case of earth no one was able to stop it as it grew overtime.

No, once again, in episode 4 we clearly see that the Null is in space. We also see it again in space in episode 8. Also, we see it in the short where Doll is playing Monopoly and she’s on Earth. Even if that scene is only half-canon since Doll has never actually been to Earth, the Null is still placed in space by Glitch, which shows that it’s at least partially canon.

no proof she can do it instantly to begin with, so you're relying on an big assumption that we directly see otherwise on screen for.

I already proved it—it took 7 frames to create the Null that destroyed Earth, which equals 0.2 seconds.