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How could Rimuru change Bill's nature? Also, Bill's ranged hax operates across 14D and is even mentioned in his profile, making this seem plausible.
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A Flying Doritos vs My old waifu
- Thread starter Thanganimator
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- 2,548
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Alter the very Type 1 Concept of either "Bill" or "Idea". The plausibility is in question due to the complexity of a cross-verse matchup
Yeah, "Range". They start in range of eachother and the first strike would be from Rimuru
Bill can't even interact with Rimuru, so the moment he runs away, it's a stalemate
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Isn't Info 2 > CM1 in Tensura?
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Depends on which CM1 you're talking about
There are 2 types of them
And, frankly, this doesn't matter in this matchup
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It does because technically it means that Bill can counter the CM 1 if it's beneath Info 2 in-universe.
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It doesn't. I participated in a thread about it a bit ago
NLF, Metaphysical aspects and hax
There some verses were certain fundamental aspects are two or more aspects on the wiki ,laws being conceptual are the most common examples, characters from the said verses have hax that are usually an application of the said aspects but in a versus scenario is it a NLF to assume that the...
Either way, the thing that the Tensura cast manipulates is the higher version
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Those random blue names mean nothing to me, I need a staff saying it.It doesn't. I participated in a thread about it a bit ago
NLF, Metaphysical aspects and hax
There some verses were certain fundamental aspects are two or more aspects on the wiki ,laws being conceptual are the most common examples, characters from the said verses have hax that are usually an application of the said aspects but in a versus scenario is it a NLF to assume that the...vsbattles.com
Either way, the thing that the Tensura cast manipulates is the higher version
The page itself is clear about this:
There is no default order to metaphysical aspects, meaning that if we have no additional information from the fiction a power comes from, we can not decide whether or not the ability to manipulate one aspect would be able to influence, overcome or be affected by another. For example, per default plot manipulation would not be able to manipulate concepts, but concept erasure can't necessarily be used to erase the plot either. In a vs-debate a clash between such powers may have an indeterminate outcome, unless at least one of the fictions involved clarifies how the interaction between the metaphysical aspects works.
Ergo, if in Tensura Info 2 is greater than CM 1, then said CM 1 would be countered by other verses' Info 2.
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No one came, you can ask DT to come since the MA page is one of his favourites
That's an extreme NLF considering that GF doesn't even have CM1, if anything - Tensura's IM2 will just be judged more potent than that of GF
And as I said before, there are 2 CM1 sources in the verse. The one that Magic and Skills manipulate is the higher one
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This absolutely isn't true, what stops me from arguing that the CM1 of Tensura is really crappy?
It's not even a NLF, it's just a matter of a verse treating a fundamental aspect as lesser than another.
You can ask him yourself tbf.
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Eikichi_Sensei
She/Her- 999
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Info 2 is superior to all metaphysical aspects in Tensura except for nep 2 (0).
It depends on each verse how it develops, but that doesn't mean that having Info 2 would allow you to manipulate things that another verse does have feats of.
Also, if Bill has level 1 haxes, why is this fight still active?
It depends on each verse how it develops, but that doesn't mean that having Info 2 would allow you to manipulate things that another verse does have feats of.
Also, if Bill has level 1 haxes, why is this fight still active?
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Bill need rage power to have 1 layer hax
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Concept has and the like cannot be a murder until 1-A
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It all depends on the hierarchy, I am not saying that Info 2 by default can manipulate CM 1, but that if X verse treats CM 1 as beneath Info 2, then Info 2 manipulators of Y verse can manipulate said CM 1 because of its nature being beneath Info 2. Otherwise, if in Z verse we have CM 1 > Info 2, then the Info 2 of Y verse is what gets countered.
There's no strict hierarchy, it all depends on the verse because otherwise we end up in endless debates about what's better between information of concepts vs concept of information.
Y'all stop twisting my words ffs.
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With this treasure, I summon... STRYMULTRA!!
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That was cringe asf imma ngl.
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Also ngl this matchup cannot be added regardless because of Bill's 1 layer in Immeasurable speed, meaning that if Rimuru wins via passives then it's invalid because nothing in Tensura is on that speed level.
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Isn't this matchup already balanced in terms of speed?
AppleMaker
Username Only- 3,835
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Voting Bill FRA
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That, BTW (even if we go by your word) still doesn't let Rimuru win. As I said before there are 2 CM1 sources in the verse
One is governed by IM2 - that's the CM on AE
The other governs IM2 - that's the CM on abilities
So Rimuru still can attack Bill freely and Bill cannot get through Rimuru's barriers
So I'm still for incon due to Bill going out of range
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Timestop
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Resists
And barriers are active even there
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Count
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My 90% pyramid and 10% Doritos still have a 1-layer hax when he gets angry.
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Doesn't matter. The resistance to Timestop comes from some perks of BDE1. He simply cannot be constrained by time flow
And I'm also starting to think about using Mind Manip or Madness on Bill
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NEP: (and also Bill have resistance to Madness type 2, 3)
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NEP interaction coming soon
The NEP itself is accepted, the only thing left is to accept interaction
Ah yeah, we didn't make layers for that yet
Resistance Negation from Deviant/Degenerate it is then
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Where it is?
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On the Cosmology page
Accepted for the place, characters (demons) would get Nature 1&3.
And simultaneously Magic gets interaction with ts
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That's Nature 1, not Nature 3.
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The characters would get Nature 3. Since existence/nonexistence at the same time stuff
Obviously not the place itself, it's rare to see a genuine NEP3 structure
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Bill FRA
Jepilstiltskin
He/Him- 674
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The idea that certain hax can counter other abilities simply because they are considered “lower in-verse” is (as per Strym's example), frankly, flawed and borders on NLF. If anything, that would only indicate that the higher hax in question is more potent within its own framework, not that the lower hax is suddenly getting overridens by another fiction who supposedly have the same higher hax in question.
If we follow that line of reasoning, then we would also have to grant abilities that are never explicitly defined or demonstrated in a given fiction, simply because another verse treats similar mechanics as weaker or counterable. That approach is inconsistent and undermines proper scaling standards.
Don't get me wrong, though. I do want Bill to win, just... not with that kind of reasoning.
If we follow that line of reasoning, then we would also have to grant abilities that are never explicitly defined or demonstrated in a given fiction, simply because another verse treats similar mechanics as weaker or counterable. That approach is inconsistent and undermines proper scaling standards.
Don't get me wrong, though. I do want Bill to win, just... not with that kind of reasoning.
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You're literally strawmanning here. I am saying that given that in that verse said metaphysical aspect is "less fundamental" than the other, then by verse equalization both users of said ability are assumed to be similar.
Unless you can quote me DT saying I am wrote here.
Jepilstiltskin
He/Him- 674
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Less fundamental within that specific fiction, not in others. Verse equalization doesn’t really apply here. At most, you could argue similarity if the verse treats those as equally fundamental (without hierarchy being involved), but that doesn’t seem to be the case with Tensura (or I might be missing something).
Which is why I said:
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Hierarchies are indeed kept between cross-verse tho:
Assuming that CM1 must "boost" Info 2 is not how the wiki operates, as there's not a real hierarchy between these things unless a verse says otherwise. I was literally there with @DontTalkDT talking about it, anf if you don't like it, talk to him given he's the one who made the page lol.
Jepilstiltskin
He/Him- 674
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That refers to interactions between equally (symmetrically) fundamental aspects, not hierarchies.
In the same page it says:
A clear difference in power already implies the existence of a hierarchy. That’s basic common sense.
Also, why are you bringing up DT in literally every reply? I get it, you're there when he said that, but I'm not. So, I don't see any relevance whatsoever on DT saying anything.
Jepilstiltskin
He/Him- 674
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Putting words in my mouth, I never said or argued that.
Within that fiction, this already implies that there is a hierarchy between them. And judging by your response, you agree with that notion.
And… he’s not even putting that into the page, how the hell would I know. You assumed I knew, when I genuinely had no idea those discussions even existed.
Even so, I don’t think it really changes anything, since there is clearly a hierarchy between them.
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