The Boys discussion thread

[Reyne]

I honestly do not see the point in trying to come up with reasoning behind two scenes that are wildly in congruent.

A-Train arrived to the camp without prior knowledge of what was going on. Even when he gets a look at what is happening, he decides to jog. His normal speed is way faster than everyone else.

A-Train and Homelander are nearly even, with Homelander having taken off a bit after A-Train and lagging behind based on how long it took for him to get to A-Train after the crash. His heat vision could catch him if Homelander's aim was true. A-Train is literally running for him life and couldn't lose him for some time.

These are not compatible scenes.

 

[Tapkmiz]

I do agree that Season 1 kind of set up a fun premise that they quickly diverged from.

To play devil's advocate: I think the show diverges from the comic in a lot of bad ways in general. Homelander being a paper tiger brought to importance by status (while his personal impotence is made a point of) and Butcher's personal grievance, as well as the real villain being the faceless company encroaching its tentacles in the whole of society through popular culture were very important parts of the comic.

Especially Homelander is an issue. Homelander isn't the Plutonian or Omni-Man, or Kid Miracleman or any of the really dangerous threats of any superhero comic, and the show turning him into an invulnerable threat cheapens him. Of course pelting him with enough heavy artillery would do him in. Power was never the issue with him in a practical sense, it's the instability that is introduced by his existence; a lot of the comic flirts with the idea of how long it takes for a volatile element to find out he is being duped to bring a carefully planned operation down.

 

[Just_Butchering]

Spoiler: Kimiko feat from S5E1

So, Kimiko already has Immortality type 3 via he regeneration. However, her being fine for a while without her lower half and her insides hanging out, would that count as Type 2 as well? I know she eventually regenerated, but she seemed fine for that time while not healed.

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

Soldier Boy being the second strongest character in the verse but having the running speed of a regular person is so funny to me

 

[Queen_Dasania]

I want to to put forth a couple important things regarding A-Train’s speed. First, in the newest episode, Starlight teases him about being slower as he’s getting older. Also, in the recent AMA, Homelander says A-Train isn’t in his prime, and is slower than he was a couple years ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBoys/s/eUtMlCowC6

So it seems likely the heart transplant didn’t really make him faster, just brought back some of his old speed, and stopped the heart attacks

 

[Dalesean027]

I want to to put forth a couple important things regarding A-Train’s speed. First, in the newest episode, Starlight teases him about being slower as he’s getting older. Also, in the recent AMA, Homelander says A-Train isn’t in his prime, and is slower than he was a couple years ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBoys/s/eUtMlCowC6

So it seems likely the heart transplant didn’t really make him faster, just brought back some of his old speed, and stopped the heart attacks

🗣🗣they said I was a mad man, they said there's no way homelander was slower and treated him getting to mach speeds was casual for him (especially when its his flight speed after extended flight and pressing himself to find translucent), "burst speed" meta

but anyways yeah thanks Homelander

 

[Queen_Dasania]

🗣🗣they said I was a mad man, they said there's no way homelander was slower and treated him getting to mach speeds was casual for him (especially when its his flight speed after extended flight and pressing himself to find translucent), "burst speed" meta

but anyways yeah thanks Homelander

Yeah lol. So honestly, that places both Homelander and A-Train’s speed in weird situations.

A-Train’s speed in the newest episode is in the high hypersonic to massively hypersonic+ ranges for sure

And homelander has a hypersonic+ feat

But going off statements… they’re nowhere near that. They both seem to be transonic to supersonic

Homelander was said to break the sound barrier as a kid. He catches up to a plane that was moving at about Mach 0.67

He was shown moving at Mach 1.51 when looking for translucent

He said he flew with the blue angels, which move at Mach 1.6

A train was said to regularly move at 1,000 mph, or Mach 1.3

He moved at 371 m/s in the race, or about Mach 1, and this is treated as record breaking

He ran a few consecutive 400 meter dashes, doing this in less than a second if I remember right

Was said to be able to cover all the borough of nyc in 3 hours, and Manhattan in 30 minutes, both being around supersonic (with room for interpretation)

So very consistent transonic to supersonic statements. We see Homelander and a train seem to be relative in speed, and Homelander in the AMA seems to imply so as well


So honestly, anything hypersonic or above seem to just be massive outliers imo

 

[Dalesean027]

A-Train’s speed in the newest episode is in the high hypersonic to massively hypersonic+ ranges for sure

Its an outlier but this just ignores the narrative intent of scene as simply just showing him be massively faster than the others

And homelander has a hypersonic+ feat

That feat is bunk and I'll tackle that during my downgrade, its also an outlier anyways considering every other showing

Homelander was said to break the sound barrier as a kid. He catches up to a plane that was moving at about Mach 0.67

He was shown moving at Mach 1.51 when looking for translucent

He said he flew with the blue angels, which move at Mach 1.6

This are good but its just flight speed and not combat and reactions anyways


But yeah you're corrct anything above Supersonic maybe super+ tops is outlier territory

 

[Queen_Dasania]

Its an outlier but this just ignores the narrative intent of scene as simply just showing him be massively faster than the others

That feat is bunk and I'll tackle that during my downgrade, its also an outlier anyways considering every other showing


This are good but its just flight speed and not combat and reactions anyways


But yeah you're corrct anything above Supersonic maybe super+ tops is outlier territory

Oh yeah, I agree with Homelander’s speed just being flight speed. I think he’s really just superhuman combat speed wise. If you need more evidence of that, look to the Boys: Diabolical, where he sees the world in slow motion, but a normal human is still somewhat able to track him with their eye

Seems he’s just shy of being subsonic in terms of combat speed

 

[Queen_Dasania]

For flight speed though, homelander is pretty explicitly supersonic, and A-Train is somewhere from Transonic to Supersonic when not suffering from heart issues (as for where exactly, that’s up for debate, I just know it has to be within that range)

 

[Katipax]

I'd say that Homelander would be Supersonic based on various showings. And sunce Homelander was bloodlusted he'd probably be flying a lot faster than usual in the scene since he had intent to kill A-train for a long time. Although A-train is faster by comparison. But then there's the Transonic stuff wit A-train and him being the fastest man alive, and if Homelander were faster or just as fast then there wouldn't be a need for A-train... The speed scaling is just very inconsistent.

 

[Queen_Dasania]

I'd say that Homelander would be Supersonic based on various showings. And sunce Homelander was bloodlusted he'd probably be flying a lot faster than usual in the scene since he had intent to kill A-train for a long time. Although A-train is faster by comparison. But then there's the Transonic stuff wit A-train and him being the fastest man alive, and if Homelander were faster or just as fast then there wouldn't be a need for A-train... The speed scaling is just very inconsistent.

Yeah, it’s very inconsistent. So it’s our job to just find the most sensible ratings to give

 

[Dalesean027]

I'd say that Homelander would be Supersonic based on various showings

In flight speed for sure, for combat and reactions no

 

[Katipax]

In flight speed for sure, for combat and reactions no

I mean there'a no evidence to suggest his C/R speed scales to his flight speed, so i'm not against that. But if we want to take speed value statements literal, Homelander would be faster than A-train since Homelander has his own speed feats. So it's either A-train's speed is inconsistent or the verse's speed is inconsistent (I'd argue the former)

 

[Queen_Dasania]

I mean there'a no evidence to suggest his C/R speed scales to his flight speed, so i'm not against that. But if we want to take speed value statements literal, Homelander would be faster than A-train since Homelander has his own speed feats. So it's either A-train's speed is inconsistent or the verse's speed is inconsistent (I'd argue the former)

While I do think the verse is super inconsistent, I do think A-Train is a special case. Even in just statements. He has an explicit transonic cap, then a bunch of supersonic statements and implications. Then a massively hypersonic+ feat immediately followed by being chased by homelander. Then an earlier scene where the Deep dodged his punch

 

[Katipax]

Yeah, it’s very inconsistent. So it’s our job to just find the most sensible

While I do think the verse is super inconsistent, I do think A-Train is a special case. Even in just statements. He has an explicit transonic cap, then a bunch of supersonic statements and implications. Then a massively hypersonic+ feat immediately followed by being chased by homelander. Then an earlier scene where the Deep dodged his punch

I feel like we should go off showings instead of statements because there are so many contradictions. We can obviously deduce that anything above Supersonic is an outlier as there is only a tiny amount of Hypersonic showings that only show in certain situations. And with things such as A-train being the fastest man alive (therefore faster than Homelander), it would already contradict his transonic statements. So I would scale the speed in the verse to Supersonic (Apparently there's Supersonic+ stuff too..?) and just rule out anything higher as an outlier. For flight speed, travel speed, and C/R speed depending on the person (e.g. it's established that Homelander's C/R don't scale to his flight speed).

 

[Dalesean027]

I feel like we should go off showings i stead of statements because there are so many contradictions. We can obviously deduce that anything above Supersonic is an outlier as there is only a tiny amount of Hypersonic showings that only show in certain situations. And with things such as A-train being the fastest man alive (therefore faster than Homelander), it would already contradict his transonic statements. So I would scale the speed in the verse to Supersonic (Apparently there's Supersonic+ stuff too..?) and just rule out anytjing hugher as an outlier. For flight speed, travel speed, and C/R speed depending on the person (e.g. it's established that Homelander's C/R don't scale to his flight speed).

The statements are more consistent than not to his actual on screen showings. The only two instances where they have contradicted were with the Deep dodging a punch and A-Train being MHS for a single scene otherwise there's no reason to discard them since they've remained entirely consistent the entire series

But if we want to take speed value statements literal, Homelander would be faster than A-train since Homelander has his own speed feats.

He has his own "flight speed" feats sure but each instance of "Supersonic" flight for Homelander we have no idea how long it took for him to accelerate to said speeds, even in the chase scene with A-Train he had a no mach cones and visibly both were moving at around subsonic+~transonic speeds during their chase as well. We could always just assume A-Train regardless of anything else is always < Homelanders top flight which is fine but that's not an inconsistency

 

[Katipax]

The statements are more consistent than not to his actual on screen showings. The only two instances where they have contradicted were with the Deep dodging a punch and A-Train being MHS for a single scene otherwise there's no reason to discard them since they've remained entirely consistent the entire series



He has his own "flight speed" feats sure but each instance of "Supersonic" flight for Homelander we have no idea how long it took for him to accelerate to said speeds, even in the chase scene with A-Train he had a no mach cones and visibly both were moving at around subsonic+~transonic speeds during their chase as well. We could always just assume A-Train regardless of anything else is always < Homelanders top flight which is fine but that's not an inconsistency

That last part confuses me like hell, but anyway.. We see that in the chase scene that Homelander's speed is basically immediate. As well as other scene's where we see him take off like Hughie's close call in Season 4, and in Season 4 after the scene where he has The Deep, A-train and New Noir beat their biggest supporters to death in order to frame the Starlighters. So his speed seems pretty immediate from my perspective. And I once again ask you to clarify that final statement in your text because that just confused the hell out of me

 

[Dalesean027]

That last part confuses me like hell, but anyway.. We see that in the chase scene that Homelander's speed is basically immediate. As well as other scene's where we see him take off like Hughie's close call in Season 4, and in Season 4 after the scene where he has The Deep, A-train and New Noir beat their biggest supporters to death in order to frame the Starlighters. So his speed seems pretty immediate from my perspective. And I once again ask you to clarify that final statement in your text because that just confused the hell out of me

Not really sure whats confusing to you about to clarify but otherwise yeah his take-offs are immediately i'm not saying that they aren't, I'm saying that they might not be immediately his top speeds but regardless its whether it is or isn't its safe to say A-Train is generally faster regardless

 

[Katipax]

Not really sure whats confusing to you about to clarify but otherwise yeah his take-offs are immediately i'm not saying that they aren't, I'm saying that they might not be immediately his top speeds but regardless its whether it is or isn't its safe to say A-Train is generally faster regardless

VSBW has a history of accepting speed feats regardless of if they immediately reach their top speeds or not so I doubt that really matters

 

[Dalesean027]

VSBW has a history of accepting speed feats regardless of if they immediately reach their top speeds or not so I doubt that really matters

Not to what's on a profile but in a case to case context in a scene regarding scaling that kinda thing matters

 

[Katipax]

Not to what's on a profile but in a case to case context in a scene regarding scaling that kinda thing matters

Very well then. I feel like if we aren't going to fully accept Supersonic at their baseline speeds, we can do something like "<base-speed>, <top-speed> at their top speed" as a compromise because of showings and what we know. OR we can do "<base-speed>, possibly <other-speed-here>". Both of which account for either top speeds and their neutral speeds, or their stated speeds vs their actual feats. But if you were to ask me, I'd just give Supersonic

 

[Dalesean027]

Very well then. I feel like if we aren't going to fully accept Supersonic at their baseline speeds, we can do something like "<base-speed>, <top-speed> at their top speed" as a compromise because of showings and what we know. OR we can do "<base-speed>, possibly <other-speed-here>". Both of which account for either top speeds and their neutral speeds, or their stated speeds vs their actual feats. But if you were to ask me, I'd just give Supersonic

I think you're still confused a bit here? A-Train is already going to be Supersonic still and so will Homelander with Flight speed on thier profiles

 

[57Dev]

The sheer inconsistency of A Train's scene is staggering. It's like writers couldn't decide if A Train is massively faster than Homelander or barely fast enough to keep distance.

Well the Deep did show up to France like it was nothing so I guess no one in the writers room gave a shit about consistency.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Soldier Boy being the second strongest character in the verse but having the running speed of a regular person is so funny to me

We also learn in this episode that Soldier Boy is not the only Supe in the verse to be almost as strong physically as Homelander; Rock Hard was too (according to Butcher).

 

[Phirse]

We also learn in this episode that Soldier Boy is not the only Supe in the verse to be almost as strong physically as Homelander; Rock Hard was too (according to Butcher).

Maeve wasn't too far off either. She performed pretty well against Homelander.

 

[ByArrow]

Homelander managed to make two sharp turns while chasing the A-Tran. Isn’t that enough to scale his flight speed to his reactions?

 

[ShionAH]

They said A Train was FTL, which fits his feats but due to how unreliable some stuff are in the show due to propoganda it's probably not gonna work right?

 

[Tapkmiz]

He has his own "flight speed" feats sure but each instance of "Supersonic" flight for Homelander we have no idea how long it took for him to accelerate to said speeds,

Do we have any reason to believe Homelander meaningfully accelerates over time? If anything his ability to make sudden changes in direction without a visual "loss" in speed means he can completely decelerate then accelerate to his previous speed in a negligible amount of time.

 

[Just_Butchering]

I want to to put forth a couple important things regarding A-Train’s speed. First, in the newest episode, Starlight teases him about being slower as he’s getting older. Also, in the recent AMA, Homelander says A-Train isn’t in his prime, and is slower than he was a couple years ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBoys/s/eUtMlCowC6

So it seems likely the heart transplant didn’t really make him faster, just brought back some of his old speed, and stopped the heart attacks

When I saw this comments, for Homelander, I thought he meant in general and ignored the whole transplant situation. While Starlight meant it that he could ran forever because he will eventually get deteriorated by age again.

 

[Just_Butchering]

Homelander managed to make two sharp turns while chasing the A-Tran. Isn’t that enough to scale his flight speed to his reactions?

It wouldn't work because of his depiction in fighting. Otherwise his back and forth with SB has Starlight and MM talking at Supersonic speeds.

And Idk, I personally think that having A-Train post heart transplant be faster than his previous keys makes sense. Age was a matter on his speed, sure, but he also was chugging V like gatorade.

It's inconsistent regardless.

 

[ShionAH]

It's inconsistent regardless.

Would A Train stay at that low speed, be MHS or Light Speed (It has 2 "feats" and 1 "statement") you reckon?

 

[Just_Butchering]

Would A Train stay at that low speed, be MHS or Light Speed (It has 2 "feats" and 1 "statement") you reckon?

Transonic to Supersonic. Anything above is an outlier.

 

[Dinozxd]

Its buns brother and and wholly inconsistent to his other showings

I agree that it's a bad calc now that I read it for the first time but I don't think Hyper+ for Homelander would be inconsistent. He doesn't really have a cap for speed.

Wouldn't call that casual he was definitely very much intending to try and track down translucent and didn't want to let him die

He's searching for him though, not chasing him like he did with A Train. Also, he'd need to go slower than his max speed to be able to spot stuff better from a distance so Mach 1.5 could easily be his casual speed. This dude broke the sound barrier at 8 yo. Theres no way his top speed now is Mach 1.5.

regardless thats flight speed not combat and reactions

Ummmm... yeah? I said A Train's travel speed should scale to Homelander's Flight Speed as he pretty much outran Homie's flight.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Maeve wasn't too far off either. She performed pretty well against Homelander.

Maeve just needed a training arc

 

[Just_Butchering]

Ummmm... yeah? I said A Train's travel speed should scale to Homelander's Flight Speed as he pretty much outran Homie's flight.

What he meant was that it doesn't scale to HL's combat speed, but it's fine for A-Train's.

 

[Spinoirr]

Okay but I'm curious as to what the exact number for the speed feat (Mainly for Alt-Battle Wiki where it's more consistent because I throw a feat merchant into the verse lol)

 

[Queen_Dasania]

I agree that it's a bad calc now that I read it for the first time but I don't think Hyper+ for Homelander would be inconsistent. He doesn't really have a cap for speed.

He's searching for him though, not chasing him like he did with A Train. Also, he'd need to go slower than his max speed to be able to spot stuff better from a distance so Mach 1.5 could easily be his casual speed. This dude broke the sound barrier at 8 yo. Theres no way his top speed now is Mach 1.5.

I’m not sure. A-Train at his peak seem to be canonically faster than Homelander flies based off statements and feats. And even he only seems to have transonic to supersonic statements. I’d argue we can maybe apply the calc to both of them if it isn’t too much above once it’s recalced. But it all depends, really

It’s gonna be hard to argue above supersonic for them imo

 

[Queen_Dasania]

They’re not extremely significant characters, but what do we think of the scaling of some of the diabolical characters? Like Nubian Prince, Queen Nubia, and groundhawk. I know we have a small building level calc for groundhawk, and the other two scale to him. Queen Nubia can make storms, but that’s likely only applicable to that right, not her normal power level?

And what about speed? I know they dodge lightning, which could be in the hypersonic range. But A-Train is said to be the fastest, so I doubt they’d be above him and homelander

Just curious what yall think

 

[Jropzone1]

Spoiler: A Train Burst Speed

A-Train isn't particularly known for his stamina either to be honest though. Like, we've seen him get winded before from running at top speed. Considering the urgency of the situation, it's very possible that he was booking it to that camp as fast as he could and was still pushing himself right up to when he got hit by Homelander's laser. Combine both factors, it's not unbelievable that he'd be moving slower than before. Like, if you shot Usain Bolt in the shoulder or cut his shoulder with a burning piece of metal, do we really expect him to be performing at his best?

Hell, we blatantly see that he had way more control over his momentum when he was ripping off Quicksilver; still moving at top speed even when he's standing still and interacting with people. Then during his escape from Homelander, he's suddenly unable to react to a civilian in the street without tripping over his feet and sending himself flying through trees?

Tbf he was looking behind himself to see where homelander was just before it.