Aeons are not a victim to Sunday + Quick Irontomb hotfix (Honkai: Star Rail)

[Voidnether]

I just happen to know that this change months ago made it so that Aeon Physiology doesn't even have Resistance to Sunday's tuning hax, despite it being something that all Emanators could resist casually which we have accepted on all Emanators profiles rn.

• Curse Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Information Manipulation (Type 2), Illusion Creation & Sound Manipulation (As an Emanator, Herta was able to effortlessly dispel Sunday's Harmony powers with just her subconscious mind)

Even the likes of Yaoguang, which we still vaguely know for sure whether she's an Emanator or not is able to literally walk out of Sunday's tuning ability as shown when Yaoguang is not affected by it anymore.

Basically the changes for Irontomb, why would we even put this on the Completed key?

• Enhanced Fusionism (Upon reaching its Complete Form, Irontomb becomes capable of merging with Nous, the Aeon of Erudition, through Self-Coronation)

Completed key meant it's already on its Complete Form, so yeah I propose all of the abilities in their Completed key to be changed in the Incomplete one with the Completed key just having all access to Path of Erudition and Nous. I feel like it's a misunderstanding that Irontomb could be completed without Nous head when this isn't the case as you know obviously there won't be any The Herta in matchups to prevent this from happening, which is to say that non-materialized (Scepter) Irontomb and materialized Irontomb that we fought that actively tried self-coronation is still Incomplete. Also yeah, in the Incomplete key, there'd be a section differentiating non-materialized Irontomb and materialized Irontomb as explained in the English Pre-War II that we would be powerless if it's materialized form descends into the universe in which you know, destroyed the cosmos. Also I wanted to say that non-materialized Irontomb here is already comparable to a fully-fledged Lord Ravager for the Scepter ones and the materialized one that we fought and had Infinite HP is the one that exceeds Emanators whilst I'm assuming its first phase albeit materialized, doesn't have it's Path Energy exceeding that of Emanators yet.

I believe these only requires 1/2 staff votes though since this is a straightforward addition.

New Additions (0 Staff Vote)​

So currently somehow, Star of Eden is superior to the Emanator of Nihility Acheron's naught. There are several issues with this as of now.

Acheron stated to the Astral Express that she will interfere with the fight if she believes the Astral Express isn't capable of beating Aventurine of Stratagems. This is true for the entire fight as she believed they are capable of beating him since she refused to interfere after Aventurine used his entire arsenal on the express. However, the moment Aventurine gambled everything he has into an all-out final attack, things changed. In response to Aventurine's final attack, Welt in return decided to retaliate with Star of Eden's Gravitational Disintegration. However, Acheron interrupted both of them and one shotted Aventurine and his attack to protect the Astral Express. This means that Acheron did not believe Star of Eden is capable of taking down Aventurine's final attack since she believed her strength was required to interfere and that they can't stop the attack.

"But, she said his Star of Eden is more dangerous than her sword Naught" At face value, she did say this. In context though, it was never actually dangerous. You'd think I'd debunk this with some ordinary larping argument over semantics but it's really that simple. She simply lied to Welt. Welt in his first encounter with Acheron was really warry and uncomfortable with Acheron. She had that much information on the entire express while they had barely any information on her other than what she did with the Annihilation gang. Welt believed Acheron was a genuine threat to him and the Astral Express that he threatened Acheron with Gravitational Disintegrational on the spot if she did say anything. Keep in mind, Acheron wasn't terrified of the threat at all or didn't bat an eye to it. To ease Welt's worries, she told him her true intentions and who she is. This also includes lying to Welt and downplaying her own strength and sword by picturing Welt as actually being the more dangerous threat than herself in order to ease his worries. She basically said, "You wield an entire blackhole as a weapon man, surely its way more dangerous than the mere sword im holding". It's consistent with out after Acheron revealed her true power of Nihility and the true power of her sword, Welt afterwards was terrified of her powers and seeing Aventurine getting one shotted.

Anyways, Zephyro's keys should be separated which is "3-C, far higher with White Hole | 2-A when colliding its own White Hole against Welt's Black Hole (Star of Eden)”

Staff Votes
• Agree: Vietthai96
• Neutral:
• Disagree:

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

"Upon reaching its Complete Form"

Yeah this one needs to be changed into something like, "Upon descending onto the universe, Irontomb will attempt to begin Self-Coronation" or something like that

Incomplete Irontomb should get an Up To rating for Nigh Self Coronation completition since he was like 99% done in less than a minute, which was basically the one we fought

 

[Voidnether]

"Upon reaching its Complete Form"

Yeah this one needs to be changed into something like, "Upon descending onto the universe, Irontomb will attempt to begin Self-Coronation" or something like that

Incomplete Irontomb should get an Up To rating for Nigh Self Coronation completition since he was like 99% done in less than a minute, which was basically the one we fought

I'm more mad about Aeons being a victim to Sunday's tuning hax LMFAO

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Even the likes of Yaoguang, which we still vaguely know for sure whether she's an Emanator

She's an Arbiter General so it's 100% that she's an Emanator of the Hunt

 

[Voidnether]

She's an Arbiter General so it's 100% that she's an Emanator of the Hunt

Tbh this shit is complicated though we accepted Jing Yuan is an Emanator anyway which you know proves again that if Emanators are capable of resisting and even walking out from it casually then why aren't the Aeons also capable

 

[Mbpoops]

This is fine.

 

[Mbpoops]

Prolly for another crt but i thought i might add that you should probably remove irontomb’s resistance to qlipoth’s hammer. Not even aeons resist this and his complete form fuses with one so that doesnt make a whole lot of sense and i also think it was added without a crt

 

[Vietthai96]

Can someone get me a TLDR?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Can someone get me a TLDR?

Aeons resist the haxes of the pathstrider Sunday for that specific ability because every single emanator they blessed are capable of doing so and is stated in canon that Emanators resist it.

Irontomb's fusionism ability moves to Incomplete Key and the justification gets changed to "Upon descending onto the universe, Irontomb will attempt to begin Self-Coronation" because the current one is incorrect

Incomplete Irontomb gets an Up To rating with Nigh Self Coronation Completion because its the one we fought

 

[Vietthai96]

Aeons resist the haxes of the pathstrider Sunday for that specific ability because every single emanator they blessed are capable of doing so and is stated in canon that Emanators resist it.

Irontomb's fusionism ability moves to Incomplete Key and the justification gets changed to "Upon descending onto the universe, Irontomb will attempt to begin Self-Coronation" because the current one is incorrect

Incomplete Irontomb gets an Up To rating with Nigh Self Coronation Completion because its the one we fought

Disagree because i don't like English dub

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Disagree because i don't like English dub

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

This the reason why I listed all 4 dubs on her profile

 

[Vietthai96]

Disagree again because it is CN dub

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Disagree again because it is CN dub

 

[Voidnether]

Disagree again because it is CN dub

 

[Vietthai96]

Still disagree, somehow Japanese Dub wasn't the foremost language when it come to these anime game is crazy

Anyway, joke aside the thread is oke to me, unless someone post anti-feat

You understand me

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Still disagree, somehow Japanese Dub wasn't the foremost language when it come to these anime game is crazy

Anyway, joke aside the thread is oke to me, unless someone post anti-feat


You understand me

Tbf downloading the game auto forces you to start with English dub lol

 

[Vietthai96]

Tbf downloading the game auto forces you to start with English dub lol

It is auto-corresponding your voiceover with your game language setting, kind of normal with multi-language voiceover games these days

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

New Additions (0 Staff Vote)​

So currently somehow, we scale Welt relative to the Emanator of Destruction Zephyro and that Star of Eden is superior to the Emanator of Nihility Acheron's naught. There are several issues with this as of now.

Acheron stated to the Astral Express that she will interfere with the fight if she believes the Astral Express isn't capable of beating Aventurine of Stratagems. This is true for the entire fight as she believed they are capable of beating him since she refused to interfere after Aventurine used his entire arsenal on the express. However, the moment Aventurine gambled everything he has into an all-out final attack, things changed. In response to Aventurine's final attack, Welt in return decided to retaliate with Star of Eden's Zeroth power. However, Acheron interrupted both of them and one shotted Aventurine and his attack to protect the Astral Express. This means that Acheron did not believe Zeroth power is capable of taking down Aventurine's final attack since she believed her strength was required to interfere and that they can't stop the attack.

"But, she said his Star of Eden is more dangerous than her sword Naught" At face value, she did say this. In context though, it was never actually dangerous. You'd think I'd debunk this with some ordinary larping argument over semantics but it's really that simple. She simply lied to Welt. Welt in his first encounter with Acheron was really warry and uncomfortable with Acheron. She had that much information on the entire express while they had barely any information on her other than what she did with the Annihilation gang. Welt believed Acheron was a genuine threat to him and the Astral Express that he threatened Acheron with Gravitational Disintegrational on the spot if she did say anything. Keep in mind, Acheron wasn't terrified of the threat at all or didn't bat an eye to it. To ease Welt's worries, she told him her true intentions and who she is. This also includes lying to Welt and downplaying her own strength and sword by picturing Welt as actually being the more dangerous threat than herself in order to ease his worries. She basically said, "You wield an entire blackhole as a weapon man, surely its way more dangerous than the mere sword im holding". It's consistent with out after Acheron revealed her true power of Nihility and the true power of her sword, Welt afterwards was terrified of her powers and seeing Aventurine getting one shotted.

"But, he clashed with Zephyro. Surely it means he scales to Zephyro" Actually, it doesn't. It just means Zephyro simply just held back in order to allow the clash to even happen in the first place. We know that his Zeroth power is relative to Aventurine's final attack. The same final attack was completely obliterated by the true power of an Emanator. Taking into account previous fights, Zephyro simply just held back his output on the attack. There is also zero evidence that this was even Zephyro's full power in the clash and we can't arbitrary put a "Welt level" cap on him knowing what happened with his previous fights. We never even seen Zephyro's full power at all and it'll be weirder if Zephyro is somehow that much weaker than Acheron. It's also consistent with how Welt is inferior to False God Otto, who is Emanator level, and far inferior to Herrscher of Finality Kiana, who is directly stated to being comparable to Emanators.

Anyways, Zephyro's keys should be separated which is "3-C, far higher with White Hole | 2-A when colliding its own White Hole against Welt's Black Hole (Star of Eden)”

It's pretty weird to edit an already-existing CRT like this to add an unrelated argument. Just make a new one next time, it comes off as you trying to hide what you're doing.

Now, to start. The issue is that not that Welt is wanked or that he's upscaled beyond oblivion. The issue is that Zephyro is wanked and Acheron isn't. This means that as a consequence Welt scales higher than Acheron, which of course isn't right. You're just tackling the issue incorrectly.

It took Zephyro an Amber Era of unspecified length to destroy a single galaxy, and even if you argue this is not the case via the broadcast, we still don't have a concrete statement of 'oh this was done in one attack' or even a statement of how long it took. This is a massive anti-feat for the Lord Ravagers as a whole and the statement supporting that they can destroy galaxies. 'A single overlord of the Antimatter legion can destroy galaxies' is a statement contradicted by a feat. The feat should take precedent and Zephyro should be downscaled, or just chainscaled from other Lord Ravagers feats of devouring stars, until we see more concrete scaling for him. If you want to take away Welt's higher scaling with this, it'd be far more acceptable than just saying 'Zephyro was holding back' when it's out of character for him to do so. I'll touch on this later.

Onto Acheron.

Acheron stated to the Astral Express that she will interfere with the fight if she believes the Astral Express isn't capable of beating Aventurine of Stratagems.

Not that it's unbelievable, I just think the first paragraph is contingent on this so a scan should be provided.
No proof that Welt uses Zeroth Power there. Usually it's signalled in some way. It could just be standard gravity manip the SoE has anyways. In case you're going to rebute this with 'it looks like he's summoning a black hole in the animation' his skill 'Edge of the Void' looks pretty damn similar if you look at the cane.

Acheron never said the SoE was more dangerous than Naught. She said the SoE was just dangerous.
'Do they really think this sword is more dangerous than that black hole you're wielding?' The whole point is that she can see the SoE's true nature and that it is, simply put, dangerous. It also points out that The Family can't recognise the SoE's true nature like she can.

The main issue I have with this addition is that you've stated Zephyro was 'simply holding back' - This is a major mischaracterisation of Zephyro. The dude is a Lord Ravager, their very purpose is to destroy things and they do it via different ways for different reasons.

Now, read the first paragraph of Zephyro's description.

'He is obsessed with the final moment of annihilation - the beauty of absolute erasure. Yet some whisper that encountering him may be a mercy. Among all the Lord Ravagers, Zephyro alone offers a death without pain.'

So why would he hold back? There's no evidence he held back here either. The Astral Express are serious opposition against the Destruction. He should want rid of them. We don't even know if he was holding back against Phainon, let alone by how much. This addition to the CRT makes huge leaps in logic in an attempt to downscale Welt (with very little scans to back it up) when a more acceptable Zephyro downscale would solve this exact issue.

It's also consistent with how Welt is inferior to False God Otto, who is Emanator level, and far inferior to Herrscher of Finality Kiana, who is directly stated to being comparable to Emanators.

Don't speak on Hi3, you haven't played the game and evidently don't know the context of the scenes. When FG Otto was compared to the Herrscher of Finality it was when the timeline creation for Kallen occurred, this is why they discuss exchanging a life for a life and turning back time. This was stated to be comparable to the PE Final Herrscher's descent. We also know CE Diabolic Kevin is stronger than PE Finality thus Diabolic Kevin is far stronger and HoFin Kiana is much, much stronger than that.

This power of making a whole new timeline was what was compared to PE Finality.

Herrscher of Sentience: …Forget it. The jerk’s a world leader his whole life but the only thing he cares about is a girl that’s been dead for 500 years.

Herrscher of Sentience: Y’know, they say in the end it was a life for a life, all to save that one girl. Now tell me, what’s with that?

MEI: …So that’s why Prometheus detected such an energy spike large enough to affect the world even before the Final Herrscher’s descent.

MEI: But people can’t come back from the dead. To do that, he’d have to turn back time.

Also, Kiana was stated to be at least Emanator level. Her will alone passed through the Imaginary Intertidal Zones and made the Garden of Revelation's mirror react. The mirror reacts to anyone Emanator or above in strength. This shouldn't be used as a 'she is an Emanator' but an 'at least' or a ballpark estimate of Emanator status. She could be stronger, we don't know, so don't try chainscale with it.

In conclusion you're making massive assumptions to downscale Welt: Mainly about Zephyro's character (saying he was holding back against Welt), assuming Welt was going to use the SoE's Zeroth Power against Aventurine (something that might not be the case) and ballparking Hi3's power via unreliable statements - saying the higher tiers are 'just Emanator level' to downscale Welt when we don't know if that's the case.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

It took Zephyro an Amber Era of unspecified length to destroy a single galaxy, and even if you argue this is not the case via the broadcast, we still don't have a concrete statement of 'oh this was done in one attack' or even a statement of how long it took. This is a massive anti-feat for the Lord Ravagers as a whole and the statement supporting that they can destroy galaxies. 'A single overlord of the Antimatter legion can destroy galaxies' is a statement contradicted by a feat. The feat should take precedent and Zephyro should be downscaled, or just chainscaled from other Lord Ravagers feats of devouring stars, until we see more concrete scaling for him. If you want to take away Welt's higher scaling with this, it'd be far more acceptable than just saying 'Zephyro was holding back' when it's out of character for him to do so. I'll touch on this later.

Brother. Zephyro's destruction methods was literally

Creating cyclones to destroy a planet's ecosystem

Scorching a planet's surface and turning it into glass

Ramming into 4 planets

Instantly erupting a supernova and nuking everything

What anti feat is there. He clearly took his time because he loves destruction.

 

[Mbpoops]

I dont agree with the welt and zephyro bit

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Brother. Zephyro's destruction methods was literally

Creating cyclones to destroy a planet's ecosystem

Scorching a planet's surface and turning it into glass

Ramming into 4 planets

Instantly erupting a supernova and nuking everything

What anti feat is there. He clearly took his time because he loves destruction.

So you're NLF'ing this into being able to nuke a whole galaxy at once. It's just at that time he 'took his time because he loves destruction' also conveniently the only time we hear Zephyro destroying galaxies being mentioned.

Regardless it stands that it's out of character for him to hold back against the Astral Express and that it'd be odd to assume Zephyro is holding back without any proof.

 

[Voidnether]

It's pretty weird to edit an already-existing CRT like this to add an unrelated argument. Just make a new one next time, it comes off as you trying to hide what you're doing.

Which is why I said it has 0 staff votes.

Now, to start. The issue is that not that Welt is wanked or that he's upscaled beyond oblivion. The issue is that Zephyro is wanked and Acheron isn't. This means that as a consequence Welt scales higher than Acheron, which of course isn't right. You're just tackling the issue incorrectly.

Prove Zephyro is wanked.

It took Zephyro an Amber Era of unspecified length to destroy a single galaxy, and even if you argue this is not the case via the broadcast, we still don't have a concrete statement of 'oh this was done in one attack' or even a statement of how long it took. This is a massive anti-feat for the Lord Ravagers as a whole and the statement supporting that they can destroy galaxies. 'A single overlord of the Antimatter legion can destroy galaxies' is a statement contradicted by a feat. The feat should take precedent and Zephyro should be downscaled, or just chainscaled from other Lord Ravagers feats of devouring stars, until we see more concrete scaling for him. If you want to take away Welt's higher scaling with this, it'd be far more acceptable than just saying 'Zephyro was holding back' when it's out of character for him to do so. I'll touch on this later.

Unironically Zephyro requiring a whole Amber Era to destroy the Tia'nua Galaxy is purely headcanon when we clearly see Acheron is capable of affecting the entire Asdana Galaxy in just a single slash against Aventurine. Welt even stated further it affects the entire Dreamscape and we see her attack traveling.

Onto Acheron.

Not that it's unbelievable, I just think the first paragraph is contingent on this so a scan should be provided.
No proof that Welt uses Zeroth Power there. Usually it's signalled in some way. It could just be standard gravity manip the SoE has anyways. In case you're going to rebute this with 'it looks like he's summoning a black hole in the animation' his skill 'Edge of the Void' looks pretty damn similar if you look at the cane.

Gravitational Disintegration and Zeroth Power are different, the former is literally used by Welt on his ultimate lol.

Acheron never said the SoE was more dangerous than Naught. She said the SoE was just dangerous.
'Do they really think this sword is more dangerous than that black hole you're wielding?' The whole point is that she can see the SoE's true nature and that it is, simply put, dangerous. It also points out that The Family can't recognise the SoE's true nature like she can.

Which doesn't make it above Naught.

The main issue I have with this addition is that you've stated Zephyro was 'simply holding back' - This is a major mischaracterisation of Zephyro. The dude is a Lord Ravager, their very purpose is to destroy things and they do it via different ways for different reasons.

Now, read the first paragraph of Zephyro's description.

'He is obsessed with the final moment of annihilation - the beauty of absolute erasure. Yet some whisper that encountering him may be a mercy. Among all the Lord Ravagers, Zephyro alone offers a death without pain.'

So why would he hold back? There's no evidence he held back here either. The Astral Express are serious opposition against the Destruction. He should want rid of them. We don't even know if he was holding back against Phainon, let alone by how much. This addition to the CRT makes huge leaps in logic in an attempt to downscale Welt (with very little scans to back it up) when a more acceptable Zephyro downscale would solve this exact issue.

The only "opposition" as shown here is Welt, the Astral Express were turned into Sin Thirsters in the aftermath implying Zephyro is alive. Why would Zephyro be serious if this is the same person who completely overlapped Welt's black hole as shown in the visual?

Don't speak on Hi3, you haven't played the game and evidently don't know the context of the scenes. When FG Otto was compared to the Herrscher of Finality it was when the timeline creation for Kallen occurred, this is why they discuss exchanging a life for a life and turning back time. This was stated to be comparable to the PE Final Herrscher's descent. We also know CE Diabolic Kevin is stronger than PE Finality thus Diabolic Kevin is far stronger and HoFin Kiana is much, much stronger than that.

I love how you purposely remove the other context that it was because of FG Otto's Honkai Energy output being infinite.

This power of making a whole new timeline was what was compared to PE Finality.

No? It was the infinite Honkai Energy output.

Also, Kiana was stated to be at least Emanator level. Her will alone passed through the Imaginary Intertidal Zones and made the Garden of Revelation's mirror react. The mirror reacts to anyone Emanator or above in strength. This shouldn't be used as a 'she is an Emanator' but an 'at least' or a ballpark estimate of Emanator status. She could be stronger, we don't know, so don't try chainscale with it.

You could debate with the Mars scientist on this one honestly, I still find it funny that a random Memokeeper is capable of entering and disturbing Kiana in her coma.

In conclusion you're making massive assumptions to downscale Welt: Mainly about Zephyro's character (saying he was holding back against Welt), assuming Welt was going to use the SoE's Zeroth Power against Aventurine (something that might not be the case) and ballparking Hi3's power via unreliable statements - saying the higher tiers are 'just Emanator level' to downscale Welt when we don't know if that's the case.

Well I do know you managed to misinterpret Gravitational Disintegration used in his ultimate with Zeroth's power, it is what it is.

 

[Mbpoops]

It's pretty weird to edit an already-existing CRT like this to add an unrelated argument. Just make a new one next time, it comes off as you trying to hide what you're doing.

Now, to start. The issue is that not that Welt is wanked or that he's upscaled beyond oblivion. The issue is that Zephyro is wanked and Acheron isn't. This means that as a consequence Welt scales higher than Acheron, which of course isn't right. You're just tackling the issue incorrectly.

It took Zephyro an Amber Era of unspecified length to destroy a single galaxy, and even if you argue this is not the case via the broadcast, we still don't have a concrete statement of 'oh this was done in one attack' or even a statement of how long it took. This is a massive anti-feat for the Lord Ravagers as a whole and the statement supporting that they can destroy galaxies. 'A single overlord of the Antimatter legion can destroy galaxies' is a statement contradicted by a feat. The feat should take precedent and Zephyro should be downscaled, or just chainscaled from other Lord Ravagers feats of devouring stars, until we see more concrete scaling for him. If you want to take away Welt's higher scaling with this, it'd be far more acceptable than just saying 'Zephyro was holding back' when it's out of character for him to do so. I'll touch on this later.

Onto Acheron.

Not that it's unbelievable, I just think the first paragraph is contingent on this so a scan should be provided.
No proof that Welt uses Zeroth Power there. Usually it's signalled in some way. It could just be standard gravity manip the SoE has anyways. In case you're going to rebute this with 'it looks like he's summoning a black hole in the animation' his skill 'Edge of the Void' looks pretty damn similar if you look at the cane.

Acheron never said the SoE was more dangerous than Naught. She said the SoE was just dangerous.
'Do they really think this sword is more dangerous than that black hole you're wielding?' The whole point is that she can see the SoE's true nature and that it is, simply put, dangerous. It also points out that The Family can't recognise the SoE's true nature like she can.

The main issue I have with this addition is that you've stated Zephyro was 'simply holding back' - This is a major mischaracterisation of Zephyro. The dude is a Lord Ravager, their very purpose is to destroy things and they do it via different ways for different reasons.

Now, read the first paragraph of Zephyro's description.

'He is obsessed with the final moment of annihilation - the beauty of absolute erasure. Yet some whisper that encountering him may be a mercy. Among all the Lord Ravagers, Zephyro alone offers a death without pain.'

So why would he hold back? There's no evidence he held back here either. The Astral Express are serious opposition against the Destruction. He should want rid of them. We don't even know if he was holding back against Phainon, let alone by how much. This addition to the CRT makes huge leaps in logic in an attempt to downscale Welt (with very little scans to back it up) when a more acceptable Zephyro downscale would solve this exact issue.



Don't speak on Hi3, you haven't played the game and evidently don't know the context of the scenes. When FG Otto was compared to the Herrscher of Finality it was when the timeline creation for Kallen occurred, this is why they discuss exchanging a life for a life and turning back time. This was stated to be comparable to the PE Final Herrscher's descent. We also know CE Diabolic Kevin is stronger than PE Finality thus Diabolic Kevin is far stronger and HoFin Kiana is much, much stronger than that.

This power of making a whole new timeline was what was compared to PE Finality.



Also, Kiana was stated to be at least Emanator level. Her will alone passed through the Imaginary Intertidal Zones and made the Garden of Revelation's mirror react. The mirror reacts to anyone Emanator or above in strength. This shouldn't be used as a 'she is an Emanator' but an 'at least' or a ballpark estimate of Emanator status. She could be stronger, we don't know, so don't try chainscale with it.

In conclusion you're making massive assumptions to downscale Welt: Mainly about Zephyro's character (saying he was holding back against Welt), assuming Welt was going to use the SoE's Zeroth Power against Aventurine (something that might not be the case) and ballparking Hi3's power via unreliable statements - saying the higher tiers are 'just Emanator level' to downscale Welt when we don't know if that's the case.

Fully agrre with this. Well done

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

So you're NLF'ing this into being able to nuke a whole galaxy at once. It's just at that time he 'took his time because he loves destruction' also conveniently the only time we hear Zephyro destroying galaxies being mentioned.

Your entire argument for that paragraph is contingent on the guy doing random shit for the sake of destruction and calling it an anti-feat. Go send an actual anti-feat and not him trying to create weather cyclones for a single planet for the funnies.

 

[Mbpoops]

Your entire argument for that paragraph is contingent on the guy doing random shit for the sake of destruction and calling it an anti-feat. Go send an actual anti-feat and not him trying to create weather cyclones for a single planet for the funnies.

Is there any other scene where a lord ravanger has explicitly destroyed a galaxy in a single go? Remember these are philisophical concepts so the lord ravangers dont actually have to physically destroy galaxies destruction works in many ways and if you want a more in depth look at it i can find le garde’s message about it

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Is there any other scene where a lord ravanger has explicitly destroyed a galaxy in a single go? Remember these are philisophical concepts so the lord ravangers dont actually have to physically destroy galaxies destruction works in many ways and if you want a more in depth look at it i can find le garde’s message about it

We have multiple statements that they can destroy galaxies and we currently do not have an anti feat against the statements as of right now. Zephyro shouldn't be an anti feat because its obvious by his destruction methods he's doing it for the funny. (Weather cyclones of a single planet really)

 

[Mbpoops]

We have multiple statements that they can destroy galaxies and we currently do not have an anti feat against the statements as of right now. Zephyro shouldn't be an anti feat because its obvious by his destruction methods he's doing it for the funny. (Weather cyclones of a single planet really)

Destroying a galaxy doesnt always happen instantly like you can destroy a galaxy without doing it in one go like how zephyro did over time. You’d have to prove they can do this in one go which there actually isnt any proof of

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Which is why I said it has 0 staff votes.

And that's fine, it's just that people might want to be alerted to this unrelated addition. It'd be perfectly fine in a new CRT. Editing a pre-existing one makes you look like a coward, trying to hide a change because you know people would contest you on it.

Prove Zephyro is wanked.

Prove he can destroy a galaxy without it taking a whole AE.

Unironically Zephyro requiring a whole Amber Era to destroy the Tia'nua Galaxy is purely headcanon when we clearly see Acheron is capable of affecting the entire Asdana Galaxy in just a single slash against Aventurine. Welt even stated further it affects the entire Dreamscape and we see her attack traveling.

Chainscaling a Nihility Emanator to a Lord Ravager. Icky. We don't even know if Zepyro is a Nihility Emanator or just a pathstrider. Hold your horses, brodie. Furthermore the actual galaxy itself wasn't destroyed, it was a slash breaking the dream that encompassed the galaxy. In 3.8 it even has multiple layers which need to be disrupted, IIRC Acheron only breaks one, and she's heavily assisted in 3.2 by others (like the Galaxy Rangers) coming in to destabilise the dream. This shouldn't be taken as a galaxy level feat without a statement in HSR that destroying a destabilised gravity-sized dream is a galaxy level feat.

Gravitational Disintegration and Zeroth Power are different, the former is literally used by Welt on his ultimate lol.

The whole point is that he could've been using his gravity powers against Aventurine, not Zeroth Power's Quasi Black Hole. That's why I gave you the animation for him using his gravity powers in his animations and said it looks similar to what he was going to use on Aventurine. Therefore Acheron stepping in doesn't effect the AP of SoE. Also I asked you to supply a scan of Acheron saying she'd step in if Aventurine was more than they could handle. In good faith, please do it. Like I said, it's not that I believe it didn't happen but it's an important scan to have because this portion of the argument relies on it.

Which doesn't make it above Naught.

Never stated it should be above Naught. I'm just against removing Welt's scaling without also removing Zephyro's scaling. I gave my reasoning in the OP before posting it. You said Acheron was implying SoE wasn't dangerous which I'm saying is wrong. This point of contention is zilch though, it really means nothing if Acheron implied the SoE wasn't dangerous to her, because all that means is she's stronger than Welt and we haven't seen her FP yet.

The only "opposition" as shown here is Welt, the Astral Express were turned into Sin Thirsters in the aftermath implying Zephyro is alive. Why would Zephyro be serious if this is the same person who completely overlapped Welt's black hole as shown in the visual?

I gave you reasons why Zephyro would be serious. The AE being Sin Thirsters doesn't mean anything either. This just means they're dead and emerging from Nihility again. This is consistent with the combined two black holes destroying the universe, there's nothing to imply Zephyro is alive or dead. We don't know what happened to him.

I love how you purposely remove the other context that it was because of FG Otto's Honkai Energy output being infinite.

He doesn't have infinite output. He has infinite energy but can't express it all, hence why he was regenerating and unkillable, but not unharmable and couldn't no-diff his opponents. This was why Imaginary Renormalisation was needed, because they couldn't kill Otto any other way despite being able to physically overpower and beat him. Please play the game before contesting my viewpoints on Hi3. It'd save me needing to disprove them.

No? It was the infinite Honkai Energy output.

He can't output infinite Honkai Energy for the reasons above. He even needed to die to escape from being a slave of the Tree and make a new branch.

You could debate with the Mars scientist on this one honestly, I still find it funny that a random Memokeeper is capable of entering and disturbing Kiana in her coma.

Unrelated, lmao. She was in Kiana's mindspace, totally unable to take her memories by force, and was kicked out after a few moments. Black Swan entered Acheron's mind and got thrashed, the memokeeper proves nothing.

Well I do know you managed to misinterpret Gravitational Disintegration used in his ultimate with Zeroth's power, it is what it is.

For perfect clarity, the video clip I showed you was Welt's skill animation. Not his ultimate. This is obviously not Zeroth power and I never stated it was. My whole point was that it WASN'T zeroth power, yet this skill animation and the attack Welt was going to use to defend against Aventurine look similar. It's possible he was going to use something like his skill, not SoE's Zeroth Power. You can't argue he was going to use Zeroth Power for definite because we don't hear him activate Zeroth power and we don't see the Quasi Black Hole.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Destroying a galaxy doesnt always happen instantly like you can destroy a galaxy without doing it in one go like how zephyro did over time. You’d have to prove they can do this in one go which there actually isnt any proof of

Broskie wiki assume the former unless proven otherwise. As of right now there isn't a single anti feat against the statements.

 

[Mbpoops]

Broskie wiki assume the former unless proven otherwise. As of right now there isn't a single anti feat against the statements.

why would we assume that? its literally proven otherwise by the fact zephyro took X amount of YEARS to destroy the galaxy that itself is the anti feat

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

why would we assume that? its literally proven otherwise by the fact zephyro took X amount of YEARS to destroy the galaxy that itself is the anti feat

Oh brother
Creating cyclones to destroy a planet's ecosystem

Scorching a planet's surface and turning it into glass

Ramming into 4 planets

Instantly erupting a supernova and nuking everything

Why would he be doing single planet scale cyclones

This isn't an anti feat. This is him doing it for shit n giggles.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Wait wtf is this not Nova's thread LMAO

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Oh brother
Creating cyclones to destroy a planet's ecosystem

Scorching a planet's surface and turning it into glass

Ramming into 4 planets

Instantly erupting a supernova and nuking everything

Why would he be doing single planet scale cyclones

This isn't an anti feat. This is him doing it for shit n giggles.

How is erupting a supernova, one-shotting 4 planets and turning a planet's surface into glass '***** and giggles' - It also doesn't prove why he wouldn't take the Astral Express seriously, especially when they've already beaten a Lord Ravager (Phantylia) in this timeline. (They don't go to Irontomb). They're fairly serious issues the Lord Ravagers should want taken out.

 

[Voidnether]

It's also consistent with how Welt is inferior to False God Otto, who is Emanator level, and far inferior to Herrscher of Finality Kiana, who is directly stated to being comparable to Emanators.

I removed this part so you guys can continue debating without including this shit ffs

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Can yall move this naught vs Welt scaling to Nova’s thread which was about Welt’s scaling to begin with

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

How is erupting a supernova, one-shotting 4 planets and turning a planet's surface into glass '***** and giggles'

Because he's clearly not giving his all if here's literally doing weather cyclone ecosystem damage of a single planet feats. Is that his full power or capability? Obviously not.

 

[Mbpoops]

Because he's clearly not giving his all if here's literally doing weather cyclone ecosystem damage of a single planet feats. Is that his full power or capability? Obviously not.

i would address you back to plungin's message then because this is circular

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Because he's clearly not giving his all if here's literally doing weather cyclone ecosystem damage of a single planet feats. Is that his full power or capability? Obviously not.

I'm sorry for the misinterpretation but not constantly being at your full power isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying its out of character for him not to immediately destroy something as 'He is obsessed with the final moment of annihilation - the beauty of absolute erasure.' - He will do what it takes to achieve these things, regardless of if it's his FP or not. It's in character for him to annihilate everything, other characters put him as the most merciful Lord Ravager because he gives a death without pain.

Now, why would he hold back against Welt when he is trying to annihilate everything - 'Because Welt doesn't require his FP' - Then explain how their attacks clash and cause larger destruction than what Zepyhro is capable of alone. This destruction feat implies Welt's power IS significant and them clashing implies they are comparable. If Zephyro was holding back wouldn't it be in character for him to use his FP because he's 'obsessed with the final moment of annihilation' and 'the beauty of absolute erasure'?

These aren't statements for someone who would hold back because they enjoy being contested. That's why I'm saying it's out of character. Even if you don't believe all this, you'd need to prove he's holding back, which you can't do because there's no statements for him holding back against Welt here.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

i would address you back to plungin's message then because this is circular

Because going this route of Zephyro allegedly going all out on Tia Nua would unironically mean this mf has to go full power to create weather cyclones to destroy a planet’s ecosystem. Not even the planet itself, THE ECOSYSTEM, which is clearly not the case.