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Snyderman Speed revision
- Thread starter sageof8paths
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Helping with a Minor Bump
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Which knowledgeable members did you reach out to?
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Bump. This revision is still awaiting further input.
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Nc to see you again Hakan, I do recall this debate on discord although it was slightly different. I might throw in a few cents when I have the time.
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As for the Rock's LS statements I don't believe that they should be used as they are hyperbole.
I hate arguing semantics as much as the next guy: it's mostly subjective and is almost never definitive but I do think it's likely he's exaggerating for marketing and what not because in the second photo- right after he says both can move at light speed- he uses the same kind of hyperbolic language to refer to both Superman and Adam, stating they are both "unstoppable forces" which is obviously an hyperbole. So when he refers to them flying at the speed of light, in that context, he's clearly exaggerating to just show they are very fast.
And IIRC he has no ls feats his film.
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I wouldn't use this as there could be other explanations for the percieved timeframe such as time-dilation which would make the trip from the travelers perspective drastically shorter. There's also the fact that the stuff used in the special features whilst having some validity is self admittedly theoretical and an estimation so the distance could be much shorter.
We also know that they gave the time frame of 10 years to Earth when they were already far away from Krypton. Their distance from krypton at the time of the message is unknown.
We also don't know whether 10 years is referring to Earth Years or Krypton years which could be drastically different time frames. The special features does in fact suggest that they are different durations of time.
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Bro this is just not the case, Rock specificly said that his statements aren't hyporable and are meant to be taken seriously. Also these statements (light speed and unstoppable force) are just like, repeatedly stated.
There are probably a few more i missed but i think that these statements aren't meant to just say "he is powerful" or "he is fast".
They were going to sleep for the enitre duration so i don't think they would have been affected by time-dilation. This distance is also stated in another feature.
Ok, but like in order for the speed of the ship to not be ftl, they have to make that 10 years statement 20 years after they left krypton (assuming they were travelling at relativictis speeds) which i don't think its the case considering this whole leavnig krypton and this 10 years statement happens in a few panels and characters doesn't seem to have aged.
I don't think so consdiering they never make that distanction.
And scout ship is alse implied to be speed of light per this anyways.
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This is out of context. The context was when pressed on whether Black Adam was the most powerful superhero in every verse he believed he was and said without a doubt. That is what he was referring to when he said it wasn't a hyperbole and that obviously is one because why would DCEU Black Adam be above Darkseid in his verse talk about The Spectre from the DC Comics or Eternity from Marvel Comics or Infinity Ultron from MCU or the Unity. Him saying it's not a hyperbole doesn't automatically override literal definition and mean it's not. It wasn't even referring to the "unstoppable force" when saying it wasn't a hyperbole either.
Unstoppable force here is clearly a hyperbole to emphasise how he is above all supes on the planet, it would make no sense if both him and Superman were literally unstoppable forces only to get stopped by Kryptonite, Eterenium and Red Suns. So it cannot mean it is literally unstoppable and therefore shouldn't be taken as such. And he uses this phrase interchangeably with they both fly at light speed.
So I think these statements are not supposed to be taken literally and are just meant to show he is super duper powerful and also really fast.
They do in the promotional material. They specify the number of Earth Years it would take to get to Krypton. Which would imply Krypton years and Earth years are different. Also Earth Year is how long it takes for our planet to orbit the sun. The sun Krypton orbits is different from ours, the mass of krypton is different to that of earth, the distance from Krypton to it's sun is unknown but likely is not the same as Earth's. To put it into context 1 Earth year is 4.15 Mercury years and 1 earth year is 0.006 Neptune years and 0.53 Mars years.
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It's from the same feature. Special Editions. Literally all the same information down to the decimals but just not a video and rather on an interactive page
To further prove this, this is where all the further information is taken from.
- Planet Krypton
- Culture
- Krypton Resources
- Kryptonian text and speech
- Kryptonian tech which would include it's aviation section.
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They would still be affected physically. The ship itself will only experience 10 years and also there was a dude that was alive on the ship for said 10 years and did not sleep/go into stasis on it.
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I strongly disagree with the points you raised regarding "Cinematic Timing" and the "Hyperbole" of the nanosecond statement. If we strictly apply VSBW's own standards for visual feats and scaling, dismissing these points creates a massive double standard on the wiki.
Dismissing the Flash-time sequence as mere "cinematic timing" or an artistic choice goes directly against how we calculate speed for almost every other cinematic universe on this site, such as Fox Quicksilver or MCU speedsters. The narrative purpose of the scene is explicitly to show that Barry is operating in a timeframe where relativistic characters are completely frozen, and only Superman can perceive and react to him. As I demonstrated earlier with the frame-by-frame analysis, Wonder Woman—who is accepted at 0.59c—moves exactly 0 meters while Superman executes a complex, multi-meter leap. This isn't just a slow-motion artistic choice; it is a literal, quantifiable on-screen gap in speed. If a 0.59c character is fundamentally statued and unable to twitch a single muscle, Superman mathematically cannot remain in the exact same "Relativistic+" tier.
Furthermore, the argument that Cyborg's "dig up the grave in a nanosecond" line is hyperbolic fundamentally ignores his physiological nature. Cyborg is literally a living Apokoliptian supercomputer. When a supercomputer refers to a "nanosecond," it is a literal measurement of processing speed, not a casual human figure of speech; his brain processes information and acts on it in nanoseconds. Attempting to debunk this by pointing out the time it took him to interface with the Mother Boxes is a false equivalence. Hacking into a perpetual energy matrix and a world-destroying alien machine is a matter of complex data synchronization, not raw combat or movement speed. Just like a top-tier processor still needs time to decrypt a massively complex file, Cyborg taking a few seconds to interface with a highly advanced alien network does not invalidate his combat or reaction speed.
Ultimately, this comes down to wiki consistency. If we accept that magical and cosmic feats in other verses—like Khonshu moving stars—are entirely literal and freely scale them to characters who just punch hard like Gorr, then we must apply the exact same literal scrutiny to on-screen, quantifiable physical speed feats in the DCEU. The gap between a 0.59c character and Superman in that scene is visually and mathematically massive. Therefore, an upgrade to At least 3.3x FTL via the nanosecond scaling is the most consistent and logical route without breaking the site's scaling rules.
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woah woah woah dude. I had to time out in the 1st sentence as I never mentioned the nanosecond statement? I was talking about the Rock stating they were LS and how that was hyperbole. Never talked about cinematic timing whatsoever. Unless u replied to the wrong person of course.
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I meant that in a general sense to address the thread as a whole. Those specific points regarding cinematic timing and the nanosecond statement were actually directed at the arguments brought up by Legion350 and ByArrow earlier.
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Okay good to know. That means I can address this argument then.
Well first of Cyborg is still a cyborg. He is still human, has human nature, feels emotion, talks like a human and what not. So saying his statement or rather agreement of them dig up a grave in a nanosecond absolutely means he was referring to the literal definition of nano second just because he is made up of components of a super computer is false.
Nanosecond could also mean a very brief moment colloquially. And it's not like we've seen this not happen before especially when u look back to the super-heating arg I made which was eventually decided that it was not referring to it's scientific definition but rather it's colloquial one.
And it would make no sense as Cyborg says a nanosecond. Which would mean 1 nanosecond. Even if we limited this to only reflexes, ignoring the fact that they would have to move multiple meters and perform multiple actions in the frame of a nanosecond, according to vsbw this would allow them FTL scaling. Which would make no sense as flash and other characters have stated multiple times that he doesn't go faster than the speed of light.
There's also the fact we don't know how much cyborg contributed to this feat compared to flash. Who even when holding back statues the brakes of him.
Wouldn't it be calc stacking.
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He doesn't have any authority for other verses than the dceu, indeed. However, this absolutely doesn't make the statement a hyperbole for the DCEU itself, over which Johnson had narrative authority, and in which he, per his own words, made Adam/Supes the most powerful forces on the planet/in the universe, without any hyperbolic intent. Although he doesn't have a say over the MCU nor comics, he does have a say on the DCEU and got to execute his idea, having explicitly written the character that way in the movie, without any hyperbolic intent behind that.
Huge strawman, you are taking the "the most unstoppable" statement as "straight up totally unstoppable".
This also have no correlation to the light speed statements which are consistently given, over and over again.
Krypton doesn't even have a day night cycle so it is impossible for them to have thier own year cycle similar to other planets have so it is only natural that we just take whatever statement they gave as earth years. If Krypton did have a night day cycle i could have just calced it and compred it to our earth.
The special features are canonically kryptonian data decrypted by Starlab from the scout ship. Additionally, the BvS tie in comics state that Krypton was in galaxy-9, so a different galaxy than ours, which would make it thousands of light years away.
But anyway, time dilatation stuff isn't remotely implied to be happening with the scout ship, and if it does happen according to your assumptions, then we should also assume it happens with everything else in the DCEU, thus meaning all rela+ characters in the verse should get time manipulation, which obviously isn't the case besides Flash.
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The difference between this statement and superheating statement is, like i said a morbillion times the superheating statement gets contridicted by another superheating statement i'm not going to argue this, ***** annoying at this point. This statement doesn't gets contridicted, in fact in the theatrical version there is another nanosecond statement which also supports cyborg being able to react to nanoseconds.
Did you even read the op bro ? Like this whole thread is to adress flash being ftl doesn't cap the verse as not only he can probably slow down time around him, so even if he's going at rela speeds he can statue ftl characters, or he can straight up go ftl without reversing time cause thats what he litterally did in the final battle.
It doesn't matter how much he contributes, the fact is he is stated to be able to take action in a nanaosecond which would give him ftl reactions.
We aren't calculating anything using wonder woman's speed, but Supes has to be massively faster than 0.59c to statue and completetly blitz them.
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Yh I agree he doesn't however, that isn't my point. My point was him saying it's not hyperbolic wasn't referring to his unstoppability statement and rather him being more powerful that any other verse "without a doubt".
Not really a strawman. Unstoppable means incapable of being stopped and he refers to Black Adam and Superman as being unstoppable.
Citation needed
He uses both statements congruously
I am aware of that. That's what I said. What I was responding to however was the fact that u said the distance was stated in another feature. It was the same one from youtube, not a different one. and also if Krypton was thousdands of light years away, wouldn't that contradict the statement of it an being estimated to 27 light years.
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It doesn't get contradicted. He attempts to super heat the box. Which does not mean he did.
There's no point bringing this up when we don't use the Whedon cut anymore. And in no way does that statement imply he can react or perceive stuff on the nano second level.
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Regarding your argument that Cyborg is still human and therefore uses "nanosecond" as a colloquial figure of speech: This directly contradicts established DCEU canon regarding his physiology.
In Zack Snyder's Justice League, Silas Stone explicitly states that Victor's organic brain was completely rewritten by the Mother Box. He verbatim describes Victor's cognitive network as an "alien quantum computer" that is processing information at speeds they cannot comprehend. While he retains human emotions, his sensory input, data processing, and perception of time operate purely on a digital, quantum level. When a literal quantum computer calculates a timeframe like a "nanosecond" for an action, it is not using human hyperbole; it is outputting an exact, calculated metric.
Furthermore, as Ozcantabak pointed out, attempting to debunk the nanosecond statement ignores the massive elephant in the room: The Statue Feat. Even if we set aside the strict mathematical calculation of the 0.59c gap to avoid any concerns of "calc stacking," the narrative intent and visual portrayal of that scene remain undeniable. Wonder Woman is firmly established and accepted here in the Relativistic+ tier. In the Flash-time sequence, she is completely frozen while Superman performs complex macro-movements.
We don't need to mathematically stack a multiplier on her 0.59c speed to see the obvious: The sheer portrayal of statuing top-tier Relativistic+ characters to the point of absolute zero muscular movement serves as massive supporting evidence for a massive speed gap.
You cannot handwave the literal processing metrics of a quantum-computer character, ignore the WoG statements from the franchise's creative lead (The Rock) regarding FTL speeds, and dismiss the undeniable on-screen narrative of Relativistic+ characters being physically statued. When multiple distinct pieces of evidence—statements, WoG, and visual portrayal—all align perfectly, it's not hyperbole. They all point to the exact same conclusion: Superman operates at FTL speeds.
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No my arg was responding to you saying his unique physiology means he was being literal when he said the nano second. This was what I originally responded to.
I watched the video u sent me. It never states that it was "completely rewritten". And he still has human nature. Feeling human emotions and stuff. He is a cyborg for that reason. Hell even if he was a robot clone of himself, he would still retain human traits when it comes to speaking. I mean he literally refers to a ship as wanting to fly. It would make no sense when he refers to biological males as guys because he is a super computer right? Nanosecond can also be a short hand for a very brief moment.
And again, I already pointed how he doesn't necessarily use the strict scientific or mathematical definition of words in he super-heating thread.
I already explained why I did. Unless u think we should take Black Adam outscaling other verses at face value. Or them being literally unstoppable.
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Johnson's exact quote : "Black Adam, and it's not hyperbolic, because we made the movie, and we made him this powerful, he has powers that are rival that are rival to that of Superman, but the difference is, he's got an attitude, and if you try to hurt him or his people, well, there's a problem, he becomes the biggest threat, SO, I do believe Black Adam is the most powerful and unstoppable force on this planet". His entire monologue there was a justification to that last bit of him re-using the "most unstoppable and most powerful force on the planet", and he started this justification by calling it not hyperbolic. If anything, Johnson's entire answer was about in-verse rather than mentionning anything regarding the MCU or comics. And he makes it clear that everything he says going forward in his explanation (which, again, is all to justify the "most unstoppable" statement that is already accepted regardless) is not hyperbolic, and that they wrote the movie with this very intent
You are, again, going off topic. Johnson never said "straight up and totally unstoppable". Simply "THE MOST unstoppable", meaning more unstoppable (/more powerful) than any other force on the planet/in the universe. Johnson never ever said that Adam and Superman were completely unstoppable under any circumstances, just that their unstoppability and power outmatch the rest of the verse.
Even assuming the "most unstoppable" statements are hyperbolic (which isn't the case as Johnson himself said, not to mention they are already accepted on the wiki), they still have no correlation to the lightspeed statements, especially when he has used them several times without the "most unstoppable" statements. If anything, you have more instances of him using the lightspeed statements without the "most unstoppable" part than not. And again, why would Johnson be hyperbolic there, when his clear goal was to make Adam this powerful ? Not to mention his intents got carried over by the movie per his own words, making them by default a canon thing.
You yourself said that the special feature statements could be theoretical and an estimation, if you think 27 LY is completely valid then it would be a contridiction, but you don't.
Hmm i concede on this, looking back at it he is saying if a box is even a nanosecond slower than others it will harm them. But i'm not conceding on the sc statement.
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U were the one who used 27 light years first? That's what I was responding to.
It isn't. Ur ignoring the starting bit watch his video. Him justifying why it's not a hyperbole was in response to being asked whether he was the most powerful in every verse. Not whether him describing Adam as unstoppable and ls was hyperbolic
Thanks. But he says there is a chance that planets that sustain life from a red dwarf don't rotate on it's axis. He doesn't say it doesn't. This was him discussing the knowledge he learnt of irl red dwarfs when researching how it works.
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Is it even specified how far that galaxy is away from ours? 27 Light years is the only given distance for Krypton's distance from ours.
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I did, but both of the stated distance values help my point so i just lowballed. If you think special feature statement is an assumption than just use the galaxy statement.
"But I made sure to place our city in the sweet spot as a way to render Rao as large and reddish near the horizon, like a constant magic-hour look to the skies." I don't think he would have continued by saying this if planet did rotate.
And the monologue that follows is a further explanation of his non-hyperbolic take. See the problem with your own argument here. You are trying to say that Johnson is not hyperbolic when answering the DC/Marvel question, but suddenly becomes hyperbolic in the last part where he makes the "unstoppable" statement ? Come on now, don't be disingenuous. Not to mention that he directly says "I DO BELIEVE Black Adam is the most powerful and unstoppable force", being insistent on that, and being directly related to everything he said prior about the narrative intents he got into the movie. It's even absurd to consider for a single instance that Johnson would be remotely hyperbolic when his goal with Black Adam was explicitly to make him a top tier of the verse, second only to Superman on the heroes' side, which he re-affirmed himself multiple times. From that point on, there is absolutely no reason to believe any of those rehashed statements, that Johnson was very insistent on, to the point of affirming they made the movie with those intents in mind, were all just hyperboles.
No, but the distance from earth to edge of the mlikway galaxy is thousands of LY, so its at least that.
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First and foremost, I noticed you completely glossed over a massive elephant in the room from my previous post: the undeniable on-screen portrayal of Superman fundamentally statuing a top-tier Relativistic+ character. By entirely ignoring this, you are leaving a huge piece of narrative and visual supporting evidence completely unaddressed. You cannot selectively ignore the Wonder Woman statue sequence just because it is inconvenient to your stance. Even if we don't treat the exact 0.59c gap as the sole "core proof" to avoid strict calc-stacking, it remains a colossal supporting pillar that beautifully aligns with all the other FTL evidence.
Regarding Cyborg, you are fundamentally confusing linguistic syntax with cognitive processing metrics. Yes, Victor retains his human soul, emotions, and vocabulary—like calling people "guys" or personifying a ship. That is simply his communication style. However, Silas verbatim calls his cognitive network an "alien quantum computer." Saying "guys" is a social linguistic habit; calculating a "nanosecond" is a strict temporal metric for a machine that processes ones and zeroes. Just because a quantum computer uses human slang to communicate doesn't mean its internal perception of time isn't literal. Equating his casual vocabulary to an inability to accurately process and state micro-measurements is a blatant false equivalence.
The same selective logic applies to your dismissal of The Rock's Word of God (WoG) statements. There is a massive difference between obvious promotional hype—like saying "Black Adam is unstoppable" or "The hierarchy is changing"—and repeatedly stating a specific, quantifiable speed tier like "Light Speed" or "Faster than Light" across multiple different interviews to establish a character's literal power level. VSBW constantly filters WoG this exact way: we discard the obvious PR fluff, but we accept the specific stat-scaling intent when it perfectly aligns with the established high-tier narrative of the verse.
Ultimately, you are trying to handwave the literal processing metrics of a quantum-computer character, filtering out the specific WoG statements from the franchise's creative lead, and completely ignoring the visual narrative of a Relativistic+ character moving absolutely zero meters while Superman executes multi-stage macro-movements. When all these distinct pieces of supporting evidence are combined, they don't point to hyperbole; they point to FTL being the only consistent conclusion.
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