Silver Surfer Page Update + 1A Energy Manipulation Rating

[SuperNova55555]

FAQ>staff member

Bro would rather say this than admit 1-A atoms is bs

 

[StrymULTRA]

FAQ>staff member

It's literally the staff member that convinced Ultima (the guy who made the 1-A rules in the first place) to make that thread adding the FAQ lol. You can't just use death of the author here over literal rules.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Bro would rather say this than admit 1-A atoms is bs

No one said atoms are 1-A

 

[Rgerdeena]

It's literally the staff member that convinced Ultima (the guy who made the 1-A rules in the first place) to make that thread adding the FAQ lol. You can't just use death of the author here over literal rules.

I don’t care who made the rules, the rules are the rules, not what a staff member said

 

[SuperNova55555]

No one said atoms are 1-A

What do you think is the object that makes up someones physical body.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I don’t care who made the rules, the rules are the rules, not what a staff member said

Kindly quote me the specific quote where the FAQ says that a 1-A can punch with literal 1-A kinetic force and the debate will be done.

 

[Rgerdeena]

What do you think is the object that makes up someone’s physical body.

if your talking about silver surfer’s atoms, then those are powered by a 1-A force so they are able to be 1-A

 

[Rgerdeena]

Kindly quote me the specific quote where the FAQ says that a 1-A can punch with literal 1-A kinetic force and the debate will be done.

“A similar case, therefore, goes for Attack Potency. A character from a lower reality cannot "punch with 1-A force," because even if the higher reality has a concept of force, it is completely disconnected from that of the lower reality and therefore there is nothing that can bridge the two. They can, however, serve as a sort of conduit for power from a higher level, and thereby imitate qualitatively greater Attack Potency.” literally says a 1-A reality can have their own concept of force

 

[StrymULTRA]

“A similar case, therefore, goes for Attack Potency. A character from a lower reality cannot "punch with 1-A force," because even if the higher reality has a concept of force, it is completely disconnected from that of the lower reality and therefore there is nothing that can bridge the two. They can, however, serve as a sort of conduit for power from a higher level, and thereby imitate qualitatively greater Attack Potency.” literally says a 1-A reality can have their own concept of force

It literally says they literally can't punch with real 1-A force but can only emulate its effects through hax, lol.

 

[Rgerdeena]

It literally says they literally can't punch with real 1-A force but can only emulate its effects through hax, lol.

It doesn’t mention Hax when it says emulate

 

[StrymULTRA]

It doesn’t mention Hax when it says emulate

“A similar case, therefore, goes for Attack Potency. A character from a lower reality cannot "punch with 1-A force," because even if the higher reality has a concept of force, it is completely disconnected from that of the lower reality and therefore there is nothing that can bridge the two. They can, however, serve as a sort of conduit for power from a higher level, and thereby imitate qualitatively greater Attack Potency.” literally says a 1-A reality can have their own concept of force

You did not even read what you're copy-pasting lol.

 

[Rgerdeena]

You did not even read what you're copy-pasting lol.

yes, silver surfer can imitate 1-A attack potency because he is powered by the 1-A power cosmic, any more questions

 

[SuperNova55555]

Are these 1-A atoms the reason why Galactus goes from Low 1-C to 1-A after eating 4 planets

 

[Thermor]

Bro would rather say this than admit 1-A atoms is bs

I thought they scale higher.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Are these 1-A atoms the reason why Galactus goes from Low 1-C to 1-A after eating 4 planets

Power cosmic within planets or whatever, I’m not the most knowledgeable on galactus’s lore

 

[Rgerdeena]

I thought they scale higher.

Reality equilization negs

 

[StrymULTRA]

yes, silver surfer can imitate 1-A attack potency because he is powered by the 1-A power cosmic, any more questions

Imitating doesn't mean being the real deal, though. Did you skip a lesson about definitions or something?

 

[Rgerdeena]

Imitating doesn't mean being the real deal, though. Did you skip a lesson about definitions or something?

It isn’t the real deal but for practical combat purposes it is

 

[StrymULTRA]

It isn’t the real deal but for practical combat purposes it is

So you just admitted he's not really 1-A in physicals, cool.

 

[Rgerdeena]

So you just admitted he's not really 1-A in physicals, cool.

What would you call something that isn’t technically 1-A but for all practical intents and purposes functions the same as 1-A

 

[StrymULTRA]

What would you call something that isn’t technically 1-A but for all practical intents and purposes functions the same as 1-A

As already said from Agnaa, it'd be something like:

1. A 1-A character viewing a lower reality as a simulation, and them giving to one of the lower entities a code that makes them immune to all harm
2. A 1-A character giving to a lower entity a "blessing" that allows them to annihilate anything within said lower reality

They're not physically that strong, but they're emulating these effects through loopholes.

 

[Rgerdeena]

As already said from Agnaa, it'd be something like:

1. A 1-A character viewing a lower reality as a simulation, and them giving to one of the lower entities a code that makes them immune to all harm
2. A 1-A character giving to a lower entity a "blessing" that allows them to annihilate anything within said lower reality

They're not physically that strong, but they're emulating these effects through loopholes.

this doesn’t answer my question, at all

 

[StrymULTRA]

this doesn’t answer my question, at all

I literally did, you asked what's not 1-A yet can emulate its effects and I did so.

If you don't wanna get it, not my problem, have fun with your 1-A Captain America shield or whatever nonsense y'all Marvel goons have.

 

[Rgerdeena]

I literally did, you asked what's not 1-A yet can emulate its effects and I did so.

No you didn’t, you restated emulating 1-A in a longer explanation, not gave what to call it

If you don't wanna get it, not my problem, have fun having your 1-A Captain America shield or whatever nonsense y'all Marvel goons have.

We are literally downgrading captain America’s shield along with half of the 1-As in an ongoing thread

 

[Osemere]

Knull is gonna be Low 1-A after my revision, same with Mephisto, so Surfer will be Low 1-A at peak even if all this was accepted which I'm not sure it should be

All heralds of Galactus have to be 1-A at peak if Galactus is 1-A because of how the tiering system works. Any quantity of the Power Cosmic would have to be on the same qualitative level as the Power Cosmic itself. Even if Galactus gives infinitesimal amounts to each herald.

 

[Osemere]

“A similar case, therefore, goes for Attack Potency. A character from a lower reality cannot "punch with 1-A force," because even if the higher reality has a concept of force, it is completely disconnected from that of the lower reality and therefore there is nothing that can bridge the two. They can, however, serve as a sort of conduit for power from a higher level, and thereby imitate qualitatively greater Attack Potency.” literally says a 1-A reality can have their own concept of force

Right but this has to be in limited circumstances since any case of anything not 1-A affecting a given person/object with ‘1-A durability’ (or them being unable to affect someone without the same level of ‘qualitatively emanated plot-armor’) is an anti-feat which would nuke their rating. So you would have to say 1-A durability is only a limited thing activated in certain circumstances where the character is just completely invulnerable to anything not sourced from another 1-A character. But something like Captain America’s shield clearly doesn’t operate this way (since the claim is that it’s passive in 1-A durability as currently indexed, with no higher emanated mechanism, despite clearly being affected by non-1-A things [e.g., the smelting process with proto-adamantium producing it to begin with]).

(And Low 1-A is also completely incoherent in terms of how the physics of a material shield actually should work, but that’s another conversation).

 

[Thermor]

No you didn’t, you restated emulating 1-A in a longer explanation, not gave what to call it

We are literally downgrading captain America’s shield along with half of the 1-As in an ongoing thread

What's the thread?

 

[Rgerdeena]

All heralds of Galactus have to be 1-A at peak if Galactus is 1-A because of how the tiering system works. Any quantity of the Power Cosmic would have to be on the same qualitative level as the Power Cosmic itself. Even if Galactus gives infinitesimal amounts to each herald.

Not how that works, you can’t use quantity to split 1-A into non 1-A, a qualitive decrease can make 1-A non 1-A, and as galactus is a 1-A entity he can presumably split his power into qualitatively inferior amounts

 

[Rgerdeena]

Right but this has to be in limited circumstances since any case of anything not 1-A affecting a given person/object with ‘1-A durability’ (or them being unable to affect someone without the same level of ‘qualitatively emanated plot-armor’) is an anti-feat which would nuke their rating. So you would have to say 1-A durability is only a limited thing activated in certain circumstances where the character is just completely invulnerable to anything not sourced from another 1-A character. But something like Captain America’s shield clearly doesn’t operate this way (since the claim is that it’s passive in 1-A durability as currently indexed, with no higher emanated mechanism, despite clearly being affected by non-1-A things [e.g., the smelting process with proto-adamantium producing it to begin with]).

That’s the case in real life, in fiction making a fictional object a real object is an actual Hax, it’s literally in one of our P&A pages, so presumably making a fictional character have the power of a real being is also possible in fiction

 

[SuperNova55555]

Not how that works, you can’t use quantity to split 1-A into non 1-A, a qualitive decrease can make 1-A non 1-A, and as galactus is a 1-A entity he can presumably split his power into qualitatively inferior amounts

This is… exactly not how 1-A works lmfao

 

[Rgerdeena]

What's the thread?

Here

 

[Rgerdeena]

This is… exactly not how 1-A works lmfao

“However, there are ways to bypass this barrier. For example, a non-1-A can be empowered by a higher entity into being able to influence things on a qualitatively superior level. This can happen either by a straightforward power boost, or by means of some innate metaphysical potential rooted in something from a higher reality (This can include both characters who are converted into natives of higher planes and characters who are physically lower-dimensional but have 1-A statistics). In neither case is the capability to reach into the higher level something emergent from the structure of the lower level, and therefore they are acceptable ways to get around the above hurdles.” it is exactly how 1-A works

 

[SuperNova55555]

“However, there are ways to bypass this barrier. For example, a non-1-A can be empowered by a higher entity into being able to influence things on a qualitatively superior level. This can happen either by a straightforward power boost, or by means of some innate metaphysical potential rooted in something from a higher reality (This can include both characters who are converted into natives of higher planes and characters who are physically lower-dimensional but have 1-A statistics). In neither case is the capability to reach into the higher level something emergent from the structure of the lower level, and therefore they are acceptable ways to get around the above hurdles.” it is exactly how 1-A works

You said:

as galactus is a 1-A entity he can presumably split his power into qualitatively inferior amounts

If some whole can be divided into multiple constituents, then the whole is naturally the composition of the constituents.

1-A is defined by the fact it is not a composition of qualitatively inferior things. As such, it cannot be split up into varying inferior parts, since it does not possess those parts to begin with.

I.e 1-A cannot be split up into non-1-A things, otherwise it’d be the summation of those things, which 1-A definitionally cannot be.

 

[Osemere]

Not how that works, you can’t use quantity to split 1-A into non 1-A, a qualitive decrease can make 1-A non 1-A, and as galactus is a 1-A entity he can presumably split his power into qualitatively inferior amounts

It’s not that it’s impossible to make many ‘emanations’ of the same energy, it’s just that in this case (the idea that Galactus gives the 1-A emanation to Norrin, but only some Low 1-A separate version to Firelord) is not only totally headcanon, but it also contradicts the idea of Galactus just being a giant pool of cosmic energy which his heralds tap into based on his allowance, which is basically the colloquial explanation for how heralds work in canon.

That’s the case in real life, in fiction making a fictional object a real object is an actual Hax, it’s literally in one of our P&A pages, so presumably making a fictional character have the power of a real being is also possible in fiction

This is incoherent. 1-A standards don’t exist in real life; a fictional character can have the ‘proxy’ association with a qualitatively superior force which might look like AP or durability in the same way ‘plot-armored invulnerability’ is a thing, but the standards here are that this has to be explicit and limited in its scope. Like, you can say that a character might be empowered by a 1-A force only in this limited instance such that they could literally destroy anything in front of them with no effort (as a 1-A force ‘updates’ the lower reality from having that object to not having it), but if that’s the explanation, and they explicitly can’t just arbitrarily affect a character with no 1-A mechanism for plot-invulnerability, it’s an anti-feat and nukes the rating. Same with durability.

 

[StrymULTRA]

That’s the case in real life

• 1-A
• Real life

 

[Rgerdeena]

You said:

If some whole can be divided into multiple constituents, then the whole is naturally the composition of the constituents.

1-A is defined by the fact it is not a composition of qualitatively inferior things. As such, it cannot be split up into varying inferior parts, since it does not possess those parts to begin with.

oops, thought you were replying to a different comment, my bad internet is really messing me up

Anyways, it isn’t quantifiably made up of smaller parts, it can still be shrunk by a qualitive amount in the same way that a 1-A entity can make a non 1-A character qualitatively more powerful

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Norrin reconstructed the Heart of the Never Queen

Imgur's not working here. (Also wouldn't really make sense even in-verse)

First we have the manipulation of the Big Crunch

Or here.

---

To address the elephant in the room, though: Yeah, the opposition is correct that having 1-A stats as an extension of your lower-dimensional strength isn't really a thing. It basically follows tautologically from what the tier is: You can't add non-1-A with non-1-A to yield 1-A, therefore, etc. Whatever 1-A stats you have would need to be had through some other unorthodox mechanism. So most of these effects, even if legitimate, are prima facie just anti-feats against a 1-A rating.

I mean, personally I think a lot of the issues with that come from the Skyfather tiers being upgraded to 1-A, which they shouldn't have been. But even then there are stranger feats in here that'd need a closer look. (Like the Never Queen thing for example). So list me as disagreeing with this thread for the time being, I suppose.

 

[Rgerdeena]

It’s not that it’s impossible to make many ‘emanations’ of the same energy, it’s just that in this case (the idea that Galactus gives the 1-A emanation to Norrin, but only some Low 1-A separate version to Firelord) is not only totally headcanon, but it also contradicts the idea of Galactus just being a giant pool of cosmic energy which his heralds tap into based on his allowance, which is basically the colloquial explanation for how heralds work in canon.

It’s not headcannon, you would have to prove their being increased by a qualitative amount not the other way around, and galactus is not at all just a giant pool of cosmic energy that his heralds tap into, he is an actual entity that gives his heralds however much power he wants to

This is incoherent. 1-A standards don’t exist in real life; a fictional character can have the ‘proxy’ association with a qualitatively superior force which might look like AP or durability in the same way ‘plot-armored invulnerability’ is a thing, but the standards here are that this has to be explicit and limited in its scope. Like, you can say that a character might be empowered by a 1-A force only in this limited instance such that they could literally destroy anything in front of them with no effort (as a 1-A force ‘updates’ the lower reality from having that object to not having it), but if that’s the explanation, and they explicitly can’t do that to some character with no 1-A mechanism, it’s an anti-feat and nukes the rating. Same with durability.

All of this is just an argument against him being 1-A not that he can be 1-A, I never said silver surfer is 1-A, I said he can be 1-A

 

[Rgerdeena]

To address the elephant in the room, though: Yeah, the opposition is correct that having 1-A stats as an extension of your lower-dimensional strength isn't really a thing. It basically follows tautologically from what the tier is: You can't add non-1-A with non-1-A to yield 1-A, therefore, etc. Whatever 1-A stats you have would need to be had through some other unorthodox mechanism. So most of these effects, even if legitimate, are prima facie just anti-feats against a 1-A rating.

He doesn’t get his power from a non 1-A object or adding non 1-A objects, he gets his power from a 1-A source

 

[Agnaa]

FAQ>staff member

FAQ>staff member>your misunderstanding of the FAQ

It doesn’t mention Hax when it says emulate

In what world does "emulate" mean "just having it normally"?

I never said silver surfer is 1-A, I said he can be 1-A

Anyways, it isn’t quantifiably made up of smaller parts, it can still be shrunk by a qualitive amount in the same way that a 1-A entity can make a non 1-A character qualitatively more powerful

"Shrunk by a qualitative amount" is nonsense. The point of qualitative differences is that they're not sizelike. It has to be something different, with a different quality, not merely something of a different size.

1-As can grant lower amounts of power, but I don't think they can do so by imparting any amount of their 1-A power source.

Although I do think it'd be possible for @Ultima_Reality to convince me otherwise on this.