- 1,231
- 568
Respond to that here
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Rematch: The Perfect Human vs The Greatest Boxer (10-16-0) *GRACE*
- Thread starter DeltaStriker22
- Start date
- Status
- 1,555
- 720
- Thread starter
- #82
Counted.
azontr
Any/All- 42,007
- 51,072
I'm not saying these aren't good stamina feats, but it isn't constantly getting pelted in your most vulnerable points from somebody who can effortlessly dodge your every attack. There's a huge difference from enduring a general beating and getting hit with practically microscopic precision. I can believe that Kouji can endure for a decently long time, but it's not like Yu passes out instantly in prolonged exchanges and his senses remain at their peak and grow sharper even when severely injured, so eventually the damage will just add up.
- 7,083
- 1,955
As for skill..
He has some major increases imo
Manabu is a 4th dan and 5th dan in aikido and karate respectively, Koji's instructors are the bests of the world in their field and also made clear they are geniuses, so they are max level in these given Koji learnt it in the WR, Koji no diffs world class instructors at age 9
There is also more MA he learnt
Moreover he also learnt self defense techniques which covers these, a shit ton of MA and weapons
This is also supported with a statement saying the white room was having trouble keeping up with Koji's development rate and that he had a life time worth of knowledge
So like, Koji is now several no diffs above world class levels at age of 14 considering he was evolving each day
He has some major increases imo
Manabu is a 4th dan and 5th dan in aikido and karate respectively, Koji's instructors are the bests of the world in their field and also made clear they are geniuses, so they are max level in these given Koji learnt it in the WR, Koji no diffs world class instructors at age 9
There is also more MA he learnt
Moreover he also learnt self defense techniques which covers these, a shit ton of MA and weapons
This is also supported with a statement saying the white room was having trouble keeping up with Koji's development rate and that he had a life time worth of knowledge
So like, Koji is now several no diffs above world class levels at age of 14 considering he was evolving each day
azontr
Any/All- 42,007
- 51,072
That's impressive but like the average genius in the The Boxer is on that level. With zero training they start off being on a world-class level of skill and can make great strides in skill with little effort. The average genius is leagues above nearly any professional boxer from the get-go— even the growth of someone who has trained so hard that they've surpassed the limits of their talent and grow in skill and stats by the second doesn't grow as fast as Yu. He was the most skilled in the verse from when he was pre-pubescent (his talent bloomed when he was getting abused as a child).
- 7,083
- 1,955
I dunno man, getting beat up by adults as a kid when your body barely has any resistence seems almost just as bad as that (again, almost)
And besides, Yu's opponents were not as durable as Koji
Zefra said Yu's max is 3 minutes too, Koji is lasting way WAY longer than this
azontr
Any/All- 42,007
- 51,072
@Zefra3011 explain yourself??
- 7,083
- 1,955
I mean, Koji is a fast learner too, in 3 minutes he can go from losing to close the gap on a much more skilled opponent and the gap will widen from there
But in Yu's case, i believe Koji will take time to reach him, and when he does, Yu copies his improved version, where Koji will adapt, Yu copies again rinse and repeat
Thats the funny part, Koji never reached his limit and is still evolving
It's a standard boxing round, he said it tooI don't know where exactly he's getting that number?? That's literally a magic mystery time made up from nothing
- 1,580
- 578
I don't recall saying it's the maximum, if I did my bad. But I was referring to his fight against Josh, Yu started sweating after a single round, where he just dodged, which is like 3 min.
azontr
Any/All- 42,007
- 51,072
I mean you're assuming Yu isn't also growing, but that's not true. He grows constantly without even needing to apply himself. Outside of dura neg, he never trained technique, but he got sharper even after winning effortlessly when not being pushed. Once he actually needs to try a bit he grows much more consistently, so the gap will never be closed.
That doesn't prove anything though because Yu is already more talented than someone who was talentless but surpassed their limits to become talented and could grow by the moment. He was already limitless from the get-go.
He did start sweating but it was like a singular drop of sweat. He wasn't collapsing on his knees gasping for air.
- 1,580
- 578
Indeed, i didnt mean Yu becomes unconscious the moment the clock hits 3 minutes. That would be below average.
At the same time he clearly isn't build to fight many rounds mantaining his performance up.
- 7,083
- 1,955
I will try to present stamina feats;
- He doesn't react having his palm striked by a knife
- As a 4 year old up until 9 years world was beaten by instructors who had no qualms about sending children and woman to the hospital and had to get up despite vomiting and spitting blood every single day to the point thinking about the pain was a waste of time and still had to get up to continue and afterwards have another 3 sparring section with the other WR subjects
- Endured and didn't react to the pain of staying in a highly heated elevator for more than half an hour despite stating that he was on the brink of death by heatstroke
- Upscales Ichika who can fight normally (and stomp) 2 people while on the verge of losing consciousness and in a state where she normally shouldn't be able to walk
- Is able to remain active for 14 days non-stop of traveling with the island being stated that the terrain of the island was able to exhaust even those most athletic students in Japan in a few minutes while dehydrated, tired and hungry while still being able to fight without getting hit once even against 2 people on his level with knowledge of all of his achievements and preparation to take him down under a scorching hot sun
- 23,382
- 21,119
Don't know who Manabu is, but I know enough to be certain that he's an Itagaki Manabu victim
- 7,083
- 1,955
I love his fighting style man, it's so peak
azontr
Any/All- 42,007
- 51,072
That's because this key of Yu barely has any fights, and it's not like we need to see it in the story for it to be a valid tactic. He just keeps punching until his enemy goes down. And I acknowledge the stamina feats but the ones that are most integral to this, that being the feats involving them taking blows, aren't really enough here.
1. The first one about the knife doesn't really mean much for stamina unless we see him suffering severe blood loss. It's good pain tolerance but that's not really useful here, the pain would have had to be so severe that it would cause shock or physical damage, and this isn't Alice Arachnid.
2. The second one is good but the point is to knock him out without needing to beat him to that extent; Unless kouji violates human biology in some way, no matter how much stamina he has, he's not going to just keep going completely fine. Being hit constantly in the head is different from any injury. His durability is the only real factor here unless we've seen his WR training and he's constantly getting soccer kicked in the head by grown men.
3. Heatstroke and getting punched are two different kinds of injury. Being able to withstand heatstroke wouldn't mean you could survive getting beat in the head over and over and remain unscathed. So, again, durability is all that really matters here.
4. This is again vague. How did she nearly lose consciousness? Was it from physical trauma, was she poisoned, what happened? There's not really much to go off from this.
5. This, again, speaks to his ability to endure physical labor while not being damaged by outside sources. But there's a huge difference between being able to operate for long periods of time outside a fight and inside a fight. The only way this works is if you assume Kouji takes basically near zero damage from Yu's attacks, which would be silly.
Good for pain tolerance, but still vague. What did the torture entail?
- 7,083
- 1,955
She got beaten up basically
- 7,083
- 1,955
Basically these 2 are the same, difference is is that the 3 years old were not as bad as the fourth generation
Idk if this helps, but for the 3 year kids, they basically got beaten up so much they were like Yu LOL (emotionless and like machines)
- 1,580
- 578
More than the tactical aspect I was referring to the actual damage done by hitting PP. We don't see Yu efficiently damaging opponents more durable than him, so we can't really know what gap in stats he can overcome with PP,
Yu had to train a specific technique to overcome Aaron's durable body, not that Ayanokouji is Aaron, but still.
The damage dealt to Ayanokouji will likely be very low. At least that's what I think.
azontr
Any/All- 42,007
- 51,072
Aaron was capable of no-selling Yu's attacks, Kouji isn't even at a one-shot gap with Yu so it's not like he's hitting an iron wall. And like ik his pressure points haven't specifically overcome higher durability and I'm not saying Yu is one-shotting Kouji, but to say that being able to target the specific weakest point in someone's bones through a boxing glove without even putting in that much force doesn't significantly add to the effectiveness of Yu's punches, especially if he hits somewhere like the liver over and over, is just silly. And it's not like Kouji can consistently hit Yu, so Yu isn't racing against the clock or anything.
- 7,083
- 1,955
He can block or dodge still either with reaction or with IA
- 1,555
- 720
- Thread starter
- #110
- 52,631
- 46,883
Yu FRA
- 1,555
- 720
- Thread starter
- #112
Counted.
- 23,382
- 21,119
I'll vote Yu. His speed and perception are far too potent for Koji to do anything meaningful in this match. While Koji does have a substantial durability advantage, Yu has ways around them such as pressure points and having feats of taking down durable characters by hitting their weakest areas. Koji's stamina is solid, but his actual feats aren't the type that make it easy to compare to the beating that Yu would be dealing to him. There's also no real proof that Yu has the stamina issues that others have mentioned above, which means that thanks to his speed advantages, he can wail on Koji for as longs as he wants with virtually no resistance.
- 283
- 199
12x by using perception is just wrong. 20% faster is 1.2x not 12 don't try to add a 10x to that bro. Perception speed DOES NOT translate into any kind of movement speed here. It literally just means he can see faster, and with that kind of gap he can see MUCH faster than even he can move.
So when we consider the REAL speed difference, not the fake one you insinuate, yes Yu is faster but not by enough to claim he can blitz Koji by any means.
Looking at his profile the justification for his resistance to Analytical Prediction seems very light but leaving that for a second Koji certainly has better ANPR than Yu's resistance plus his Information Analysis. There is no reason to think Koji can't read his moves and analyze them.
So Yu's Speed advantage is 1.2x which as I said is nowhere close to enough to blitz and the idea that "he can even read his shadow" is just fancy language since that doesn't help him because Yu can't nearly move fast enough to fully utilize this information.
- 1,555
- 720
- Thread starter
- #116
- 1,555
- 720
- Thread starter
- #117
I do want to point out that Ayanokoji isn't completely helpless against Yu's perception & speed advantage.
One look at Yu's stance and koji will instantly know he's a boxer through his Information Analysis and with his Extraordinary Genius intelligence he'll have calculated absolutely everything Yu can use against him and have countermeasures ready for every single boxing technique there is.
With his better ANPR he will be able to predict all of Yu's moves and more than likely evade them despite the 20% speed disadvantage and anytime his ANPR gets overwhelmed by Yu's speed his Instinctive Action will kick in making it possible to dodge even attacks he was caught off guard by.
The times he does get hit, he should be able to endure a decent amount Yu's dura neg hits with his durability and Supernatural Willpower.
Not to mention, every single punch Yu throws will get analyzed by koji for habits/timings he can exploit so every single punch Yu lands or misses will be one punch closer to Ayanokoji completely adapting to him and becoming practically untouchable (this will happen within 2-3 minutes).
Also, I tried to use chatGPT for some info on how many boxing-rounds an average person can last.
From what I found the answer is 3 rounds or 9 minutes.
This is the absolute maximum Yu will last in the fight before becoming too tired to continue for two reasons:
- The three rounds include 1 minute breaks in between that Ayanokoji will not let Yu have.
- Yu at this point in the story is almost malnourished so his stamina should be lower than the average person.
Pyro9278
He/Him- 1,626
- 502
If Koji uses any technique or makes any significant display of skill and misses, he won't just fail to attack, leaving his defense exposed to Yu, but he'll also allow Yu to copy the slightest movement that he fancies and use against Koji. I also don't see how Koji is dealing with attacks any faster than he can perceive at the start of the fight; casual blocking will only be a matter of time before Yu hits and stuns him with Dura Neg.
- 1,231
- 568
OP said that Koji's perceptions are at baseline superhuman, this would make Yu's perceptions at least 12x.
Reading error from your end, I said "20% physically faster with his perceptions (literally 12x) and techs being even higher". His attacks are at a baseline 20% superior to that of Koji's, and his perceptions are 12x, not sure how you thought I was saying his attack speed was 12x.
Who said it translated to any kind of movement speed? It matters because having a 12x advantage in perceptions would allow for Yu to know where Koji is blocking/dodging to and adjust where he would need to attack
Again, this dudes arguing shit that nobody claimed
. Please reply directly to where I insinuate that Yu would blitz Koji because he's 20% faster? "Yu will land precision shots to his chin and liver repeatedly" does not at all imply that there's a blitz, it means that he can go through his guard with his dura neg and strike directly into him.Not sure how that's "light" as if we're aren't talking about 2 low tier characters with shitty abilities.
Incapable of proving this btw.
- 7,083
- 1,955
Yu is not blitzing Koji with a negligable difference of a 1.19x
- Status
Similar threads
