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Ayanokouji vs Light


Same rules as this match

A friend of mine disagreed with the results and would like a rematch, so here we are

Ayanokouji: Pyro9278, TheHuntsman1001

Light:
 
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Ayanokoji vs Light

Takes place in the Death Note world. Ayanokoji takes the position of L with the mission to catch Kira and is equipped with all the resources L was equipped with. Will Ayanokoji be able to catch Kira or would Light remain hidden?



Ayanokoji's win condition: Proving that Light is Kira.

Light's win condition: Staying hidden as Kira
.
 
I will leave this here;

The match takes place at the beginning of the series, before Lind L. Tailor, and Ayanokouji has access to L’s resources, which means Interpol.

Light starts off by killing criminals, as we saw in the anime. This will make him start developing his god complex and will make himself known to the world. From here, Ayanokouji would need to deduce the following:
  • The time when Light kills (after school hours)
  • His location
  • How he is killing the criminals
Here, Ayanokōji, with the Zodiac Exam feat, will easily identify the pattern of the killings. For the location, he can infer from the first victim that it was in the Kanto region, as that is where the first recorded death occurred.

Light will begin by using irregular heart attack deaths and later manipulate criminals into leaving messages and performing rituals in order to make himself known. However, this will eventually become suspicious, as Ayanokōji will notice that only criminals are dying. Not to mention, he would also realize that the deaths consistently align with criminals who are publicly reported in the news, leading him to conclude that Kira is selecting targets based on accessible public information—meaning Kira requires both a face and a name.

Next we move to the suspect list..

From here, Ayanokōji would psychoanalyze the perpetrator, concluding they possess a warped sense of justice. Given that the killings only occur after school hours, he would deduce that the culprit must be a student. He would also infer that Kira must be among the most intelligent students, as the killings are highly meticulous and are accompanied by a deliberate message warning that criminals must die. This level of control and intent would further lead Ayanokōji to conclude that the perpetrator is developing a god complex.

He would narrow it down to Light and begin investigating his public records. He would immediately discover that his father is a police officer, which makes it more plausible why Kira has a strong sense of justice, as it could stem from admiration or influence from his father.

Next we move to what Ayanokouji would do from here;

Obviously, given Ayanokōji’s personality, he would not reveal himself or operate publicly, since he lacks L’s competitive need for direct confrontation—one of L’s key weaknesses. Instead, Ayanokōji would prioritize indirect observation, gathering information on Light from a distance: his social dynamics with his family, his behavior patterns, and any meaningful public records related to them.

This approach also avoids the mistake made by Raye Penber, who maintained close physical proximity to Light and inadvertently drew Ryuk’s attention. Ayanokōji would not create any such observable linkage, keeping himself entirely outside of Kira’s awareness.

As a result, Ryuk has no practical means of identifying or reacting to him. Unlike human investigators who leave behavioral patterns, Ayanokōji operates in a way that produces no meaningful signal for observation. In this context, Ryuk’s limited perception and lack of investigative focus make him effectively irrelevant to detecting Ayanokōji’s presence.

Next we move to the traps;

Ayanokōji would wait for Light to leave for school and then use agents to install cameras throughout his house. This works because neither Ryuk nor Light is aware that they are being followed or investigated.

Ayanokōji would immediately notice Light opening his drawer in an unusual way—using the inside of a pen to interact with a small hole in the drawer. This would lead him to suspect it is a trap against intruders, where opening it incorrectly could cause harm.

From there, Ayanokōji would observe Light turning on the news while simultaneously checking it on his own TV or PC. He would then see Light writing the names of criminals. After writing their names, Light typically looks at his watch and waits around 40 seconds before the criminal dies.

As this pattern repeats over a long period, with Ayanokōji observing everything, he would logically infer that Kira kills by writing the names of his victims.

Ayanokōji would then get his hands on the notebook after replicating the exact same mechanism Light used to access the drawer.

From here what happens;

Ayanokōji would see Ryuk, but due to his extreme emotional control, he would not flinch—only briefly register confusion. However, after Ryuk explains that anyone who touches the notebook can see him, this would significantly reinforce the hypothesis that Light is the culprit. The existence of a shared, observable phenomenon tied to the object would serve as strong evidentiary support.

Light would then be detained immediately. Upon reaching court and Light pleading innocent (despite the supernatural nature of the Death Note), Ayanokōji would present footage obtained from the hidden cameras.

At first, the court might attempt to dismiss this as coincidence or misinterpretation of events. However, this argument would collapse under scrutiny if Ayanokōji demonstrates the notebook’s properties directly—either by having the judge touch it and perceive Ryuk, or in a more extreme scenario, by conclusively proving the notebook’s causal connection to the deaths in a controlled demonstration.
 
Who?

Also, I don't think that's how we do rematchs. Like, "My friend disagrees, let's do it again" type of thing isn't enough to create a rematch for a match that was already done not long ago.
  • An important piece of information or context was missed entirely or excluded from the debate.
Fits this

Edit: Because some of the voters thought the match was post Lind L. Taylor and voted upon that misunderstanding
 
For this rematch there were several points that were brought up in favor of Light in the prior match that need to be addressed. These points were all used in arguing that Light should win, however none of these points actually hold weight. Many votes in the prior match used this reasoning and much of this was discussed in the later pages of the prior match and thus ignored by people who voted.

1. Even if Ayanokouji can deduce likely suspects for Kira or even that Light is likely Kira, he won’t be able to prove it or convict him.
2. Koji has no feats dealing with the supernatural and such he won’t be able to deduce the truth behind the Notebook.
3. Misa or Rem's involvement would make it impossible to catch Light.

So, I will address each of these points at the beginning here as to why they will not stop Ayanokouji from deducing Light is Kira and eventually convicting him.

Firstly, Ayanokouji’s ability to prove Light is Kira even if he could deduce it. The primary argument in the prior thread was that Light could stay hidden indefinitely by just not making a mistake for Ayanokouji to capitalize on. If he never gives him critical information, then proving Light is Kira would be outright impossible. However, this is a meaningless argument because Light is completely guaranteed to make such a critical mistake.

Light avoiding critical mistakes is perhaps his WEAKEST area of intelligence and was constantly making critical mistakes that L could have used if L were smart enough to realize. Light’s ego and God complex won’t allow him to just ignore the investigation and avoid critical mistakes. Some examples would be Light saying to L in the coffee shop that he knew L was presenting him with “incorrect” non-public info to try and get him to admit something only Kira would know. However, since only Kira would the information was incorrect by saying so he admits he is Kira accidentally. Or Light blurting out that Raye Pember was the FBI agent following him despite L never mentioning this to Light.

Now that we can clearly establish that it would be impossible for Light to not make a critical mistake, Ayanokouji will not miss this or fail to take full advantage like L did. Many of Ayanokouji's strategies involve a very similar setup where he uses a single piece of information or a single flaw of an opponent’s strategy to completely turn the situation against them. Examples would be Ryuuen staying on the island as the Leader during the first island exam, using Kushida’s betrayal against her during paper shuffle to force Ryuuen to betray her, he turned Nagumo’s communication with other teams during the Y2 UIE against him to force 3rd year groups into the bottom 5 and get expelled, or using Arisu’s desire to challenge him against her during the Y2 EoY exam to force her to lose intentionally. There are more examples, but these showcase similar examples of Koji taking a single piece of information or a single mistake and exploiting it to the fullest.

Then we can also just look at what Koji would have access to in order to prove Kira’s guilt. He has L’s resources which include the identities of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd best detectives in the world. He has control over world police agencies, he has access to Watari and his financial resources, he has knowledge and access to Whammy’s House. As soon as Ayanokouji deduces Light is Kira he has the reach to set traps for him to prove his guilt. He can predict the future via calculation so he could interact with the media and their releasing of criminal names/faces and either misspell some names or change some pictures around. Or similar to what Koji did during his Rumor Mail strategy he could spread fake information about Kira via his connections in order to destabilize him or force him to take specific actions. Koji really has plenty of options here. His much stronger foresight and Extraordinary Genius nature will certainly overcome Light here.

Secondly is addressing Koji’s ability to deduce information about Kira despite the supernatural elements of the Notebook and the case. Reggor covered some of this in the prior thread toward the end after most everyone had already voted so I will reference some of what he wrote here.

In Year 2 Volume 3, Kiyotaka regards the possibility of Nanase being possessed as one of the FIRST things. In fact, he doesn't disregard it or simply discard it due to it being supernatural, but he finds actual visual and behavioral cues of her expressions and body language to rule out her being possessed. So, here we have Kiyotaka, allegedly almost a non-believer of supernatural stuff, actively regard a supernatural possibility as one of the first lines into his reasoning, and him discarding it only because some details in the premises didn't line up with his definition of the said supernatural thing.

So, this means,

  • Kiyotaka isn't like a character who just, as in this case, doesn't "ridiculously" take out the possibility of the thing being supernatural by its nature itself.
  • Kiyotaka actively regards supernatural stuff as a possibility and takes actual information and connects it with his own knowledge to see if something actually is supernatural.
So, this cleanly highlights that while Ayanokouji is not a believer in the supernatural, it isn’t something he would discard in his reasoning. As we see with Nanase if he truly were someone who discarded supernatural explanations he wouldn’t have considered it or worked to use empirical evidence to disprove the supernatural explanation first.

Regarding the Kira case Ayanokouji would try to do a similar thing here, he would attempt to rule out the supernatural but would be unable to do so. Also, as a given, the supernatural elements of the Kira case are semi-public knowledge. There are internet forums praising Kira as a supernatural God, the premise of his killings involves him not needing to be there in person, and this would be the very first thing Koji would investigate. So, he would very early on conclude that a supernatural explanation isn’t just possible but likely. This completely defeats the argument that the supernatural elements of the case would make it impossible for Koji to solve.

Thirdly, there is the argument that with Misa and Rem’s involvement Light’s victory becomes a sure thing, when in reality their involvement is almost a non-factor. Misa was only an asset to Light because he had been introduced to L face to face and only needed his real name to kill him. Similarly with Rem he could identity the person called “L” and she could see his real name and kill him. Ayanokouji would never take this kind of strategy and introduce himself to Light under a fake name as part of an investigation. He is far more cautious and would never get face to face with Light unless he is 100% certain that doing so will end with Light’s arrest and proven guilt and that it won’t end with Ayanokouji’s death. Without a name, face, or anyway to point out who Ayanokouji is Misa will have no way to kill him, and Rem would have no way to identify him either. Therefore, their presence is a non-factor.

The purpose of all this yap wasn’t to showcase why Ayanokouji can catch Light, I will do that separately, but rather to disprove the main arguments of the prior thread on why Light should win. This is to highlight that the prior match was based on many incorrect arguments which is why this rematch is taking place.
 
For this rematch there were several points that were brought up in favor of Light in the prior match that need to be addressed. These points were all used in arguing that Light should win, however none of these points actually hold weight. Many votes in the prior match used this reasoning and much of this was discussed in the later pages of the prior match and thus ignored by people who voted.

1. Even if Ayanokouji can deduce likely suspects for Kira or even that Light is likely Kira, he won’t be able to prove it or convict him.
2. Koji has no feats dealing with the supernatural and such he won’t be able to deduce the truth behind the Notebook.
3. Misa or Rem's involvement would make it impossible to catch Light.

So, I will address each of these points at the beginning here as to why they will not stop Ayanokouji from deducing Light is Kira and eventually convicting him.

Firstly, Ayanokouji’s ability to prove Light is Kira even if he could deduce it. The primary argument in the prior thread was that Light could stay hidden indefinitely by just not making a mistake for Ayanokouji to capitalize on. If he never gives him critical information, then proving Light is Kira would be outright impossible. However, this is a meaningless argument because Light is completely guaranteed to make such a critical mistake.

Light avoiding critical mistakes is perhaps his WEAKEST area of intelligence and was constantly making critical mistakes that L could have used if L were smart enough to realize. Light’s ego and God complex won’t allow him to just ignore the investigation and avoid critical mistakes. Some examples would be Light saying to L in the coffee shop that he knew L was presenting him with “incorrect” non-public info to try and get him to admit something only Kira would know. However, since only Kira would the information was incorrect by saying so he admits he is Kira accidentally. Or Light blurting out that Raye Pember was the FBI agent following him despite L never mentioning this to Light.

Now that we can clearly establish that it would be impossible for Light to not make a critical mistake, Ayanokouji will not miss this or fail to take full advantage like L did. Many of Ayanokouji's strategies involve a very similar setup where he uses a single piece of information or a single flaw of an opponent’s strategy to completely turn the situation against them. Examples would be Ryuuen staying on the island as the Leader during the first island exam, using Kushida’s betrayal against her during paper shuffle to force Ryuuen to betray her, he turned Nagumo’s communication with other teams during the Y2 UIE against him to force 3rd year groups into the bottom 5 and get expelled, or using Arisu’s desire to challenge him against her during the Y2 EoY exam to force her to lose intentionally. There are more examples, but these showcase similar examples of Koji taking a single piece of information or a single mistake and exploiting it to the fullest.

Then we can also just look at what Koji would have access to in order to prove Kira’s guilt. He has L’s resources which include the identities of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd best detectives in the world. He has control over world police agencies, he has access to Watari and his financial resources, he has knowledge and access to Whammy’s House. As soon as Ayanokouji deduces Light is Kira he has the reach to set traps for him to prove his guilt. He can predict the future via calculation so he could interact with the media and their releasing of criminal names/faces and either misspell some names or change some pictures around. Or similar to what Koji did during his Rumor Mail strategy he could spread fake information about Kira via his connections in order to destabilize him or force him to take specific actions. Koji really has plenty of options here. His much stronger foresight and Extraordinary Genius nature will certainly overcome Light here.

Secondly is addressing Koji’s ability to deduce information about Kira despite the supernatural elements of the Notebook and the case. Reggor covered some of this in the prior thread toward the end after most everyone had already voted so I will reference some of what he wrote here.


So, this cleanly highlights that while Ayanokouji is not a believer in the supernatural, it isn’t something he would discard in his reasoning. As we see with Nanase if he truly were someone who discarded supernatural explanations he wouldn’t have considered it or worked to use empirical evidence to disprove the supernatural explanation first.

Regarding the Kira case Ayanokouji would try to do a similar thing here, he would attempt to rule out the supernatural but would be unable to do so. Also, as a given, the supernatural elements of the Kira case are semi-public knowledge. There are internet forums praising Kira as a supernatural God, the premise of his killings involves him not needing to be there in person, and this would be the very first thing Koji would investigate. So, he would very early on conclude that a supernatural explanation isn’t just possible but likely. This completely defeats the argument that the supernatural elements of the case would make it impossible for Koji to solve.

Thirdly, there is the argument that with Misa and Rem’s involvement Light’s victory becomes a sure thing, when in reality their involvement is almost a non-factor. Misa was only an asset to Light because he had been introduced to L face to face and only needed his real name to kill him. Similarly with Rem he could identity the person called “L” and she could see his real name and kill him. Ayanokouji would never take this kind of strategy and introduce himself to Light under a fake name as part of an investigation. He is far more cautious and would never get face to face with Light unless he is 100% certain that doing so will end with Light’s arrest and proven guilt and that it won’t end with Ayanokouji’s death. Without a name, face, or anyway to point out who Ayanokouji is Misa will have no way to kill him, and Rem would have no way to identify him either. Therefore, their presence is a non-factor.

The purpose of all this yap wasn’t to showcase why Ayanokouji can catch Light, I will do that separately, but rather to disprove the main arguments of the prior thread on why Light should win. This is to highlight that the prior match was based on many incorrect arguments which is why this rematch is taking place.
Which one here is a new important argument that wasn't presented in the previous thread?
 
Which one here is a new important argument that wasn't presented in the previous thread?
All 3

The middle point about supernatural was presented in the prior match but only after everyone had voted and the argument wasn't considered before the match ended. The other 2 were just not addressed in the prior match.
 
Which one here is a new important argument that wasn't presented in the previous thread?
In my case, it's because people thought it was after Lind L. Taylor when it's supposed to be before it

Some arguments for Light were also wrong, like, an example of it being Ryuk being a shinigami who can see things that humans cant (numbers above their head which means their death date), and this feat being used to justify him being able to sense and see Koji who can kill his presence so good that people who stand next to him needs some seconds to notice him despite having zero feats in perception/observation or any investigative curiosity
 
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In my case, it's because people thought it was after Lind L. Taylor when it's supposed to be before it

Some arguments for Light were also wrong, like, an example of it being Ryuk being a shinigami who can see things that humans cant (numbers above their head which means their death date), and this feat being used to justify him being able to sense and see Koji who can kill his presence so good that people who stand next to him needs some seconds to notice him
So this adds 2 more arguments for 5 total?
 
Now that it's been established why the rematch is taking place I'll go ahead and share my thought on how this match will play out. My stance isn't really a surprise which is that Ayanokouji can and will deduce Light is Kira and find a way to prove it in order to convict him.

Before getting into the specifics of how Ayanokouji will catch Kira, it's worth addressing the most important foundation of this argument. This is that Koji massively outscales Light in every relevant form of intelligence. In VSBW terms he is an Extraordinary Genius vs a Normal Genius and in SCD terms he surpasses Light in every relevant subcategory of Intelligence by a comfortable margin. These include Cognitive Ability, Emotional Intelligence, Manipulation & Deception, Strategy & Planning, Reasoning, and Foresight. In every one of these subcategories Ayanokouji has showcased feats well beyond anything Light is capable of and this is obviously very relevant to this match.

Then in terms of skills that will help ensure Ayanokouji's victory here is his aforementioned foresight. Ayanokouji can do better than just make strong predictions since he is also capable of predicting future events via sheer mental calculation. In a battle of wits having this kind of advantage will be a critical advantage Light is incapable of overcoming. By considering every possible outcome of a certain situation he can determine the exact outcomes before they happen. Furthermore, since his ability to calculate is well beyond Light's ability to plan/strategize (e.g. Koji can think of more possible outcome than Light can think of possible strategies) Koji can be certain to consider whatever plan Light does end up using. This would make it essentially impossible for Light to surprise Koji or catch him off guard.

The next advantage Ayanokouji has here is his reasoning skills which far outstrip Light or even L. We see the strength of his reasoning during the Zodiac exam where Ayanokouji not only solved the hidden pattern behind the VIPs within just a few minutes but he did so before learning ANY specific VIP names. From only the information the school provided on the exam and his ability to connect the dots with why they presented the information in specific ways he way able to conclude what the pattern was and used it to determine that Kei was the VIP of his rabbit group. He did this right after receiving the email from the school which announced to each person whether they were the VIP or not. This was before the first group meeting. With this information he mentioned to Suzune that he had a plan to win his own group which was the Sim Card Swap he used on the final day. This induction is far more advanced than anything we see Light do and more than showcases how Koji can connect the information about deaths from Heart Attacks to a single source. He would also connect the pattern of those deaths that they all included a subjects name and face being publicly broadcasted.

From here he would notice the pattern in time of death and that the deaths are concentrated in Japan. Along with the first death being in the Kanto region he would similarly conclude this is the most likely location for Kira to be based from. Given that Ayanokouji has showcased multiple feats of reasoning which either match and many surpass the feats shown from L, it is reasonable to claim he could follow a similar process to L here. Along with Koji's EG rating this shouldn't pose any kind of challenge.

However, unlike L Koji would not reveal his existence to Light by means of the Lind L Taylor trap. He would instead work from the shadows and continue to collect information. He would consider possible supernatural elements of the Kira case and work to try and disprove them. That being said as the case continues he won't be able to disprove the supernatural and such will continue to consider that as a possible solution.
2. Koji has no feats dealing with the supernatural and such he won’t be able to deduce the truth behind the Notebook.
Secondly is addressing Koji’s ability to deduce information about Kira despite the supernatural elements of the Notebook and the case. Reggor covered some of this in the prior thread toward the end after most everyone had already voted so I will reference some of what he wrote here.
Ayanokouji would use the information gathered by the NPA and Interpol to inform his reasoning but since he prefers to work alone he likely wouldn't take steps to lead them as L did. He would work the case himself and would only take action himself once he is sure it will lead to his victory. Ayanokouji is far more cautious than even L was in this regard. The only actions he would use them for would be traps in regarding the information about criminals which would help him discover Kira's true identity and later prove his guilt. Given that Koji would have deduced Kira needs a name and face he could have the NPA alter this data as it is publicly released to test this. If mispelling certain criminal's names leads to Kira not killing them he can confirm this. Then if Light uses his father's credentials to access police data and get their real names this would only give Koji the further information that Kira is connected to the police force.

The investigation would continue as Koji narrows his focus over time. The times of death would indicate someone killing during the time school is out, so either a student or faculty and someone who is connected to a member of the NPA with high level access to information. This would lead to a relatively small pool of suspects which would include Light who is the son of the Police Chief. However, since Koji isn't working alongside the NPA the fact that Light is a suspect isn't something he can learn via his father's computer.

With just a few suspects Koji can focus all his attention on them one at a time and he could even bug their houses using Watari's influence instead of the police. It would be likely that even the person Watari sends (likely Wedy) wouldn't notice the door handle and piece of lead Light left. So Light would be able to conclude his room is bugged. Despite this, Ayanokouji would still be able to conclude Light is Kira by watching him through the cameras. In the sequence during the Y2V12 EoY special Exam, Ayanokouji was watching a group of 14 students "through a camera" having an unrelated conversation. Most of these students are not from his class and 2 of them were given the role of "honor students". Then over a 5 min session of them talking amongst themselves he watched through the camera and determined who the 2 honor students were. So he can discern information about people without talking to them/asking them questions, without them talking about even anything related to what Koji wants to learn, or even being in the same room. Additionally in Y1V3, despite having never interacted with Ibuki before Koji could not only tell she was lying immeditaly, but he could also pinpoint her specific "tell" she does when she lies. So even through a camera Ayanokouji could pick up on Light's tells and microexpressions and become certain of his guilt.

Once Ayanokouji has concluded Light is Kira, proving it is actually quite easy. He could just follow Light himself if he really wants to and even not knowing about Ryuk he would not be noticed due to his Stealth Mastery which Ryuk cannot overcome. Even if he doesn't do this himself he could also just move to arrest Light during the middle of the day and isolate him. Since the killings would stop with Light in custody he would be able to prove Light was the cause. Something as simple as approaching Light while wearing a mask would prevent Light from seeing his face and he wouldn't know his name to begin with.

Alternatively, he could go back to maniopulating the broadcast and only broadcast certain information to Light. For example, he could create a fake broadcast where criminal names are being given and make it seem like a normal news program while in reality it only plays on Light's TV. Using NPA and L's resources this shouldn't be too difficult to pull off and Ayanokouji would be more than willing to let Kira kill people only broadcast to him in order for Koji to prove his guilt.

In conclusion, Ayanokouji's superior intelligence is more than enough for him to deduce the supernatural elements of case, realize Light is Kira, and ultimately prove it. The difference between a Genius and Extraordinary Genius is just too much to overcome even with the situational advantages Light has. Ayanokouji would take advantage of Light's mistakes and it is certain that Light will make mistakes since he is prone to doing so.
 
Leaning Koji for now, but I'll hold off on voting until I see a few more arguments from both sides.Gonna wait and see how the rest of the thread plays out before voting.
 
hen we can also just look at what Koji would have access to in order to prove Kira’s guilt. He has L’s resources which include the identities of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd best detectives in the world. He has control over world police agencies, he has access to Watari and his financial resources, he has knowledge and access to Whammy’s House. As soon as Ayanokouji deduces Light is Kira he has the reach to set traps for him to prove his guilt. He can predict the future via calculation so he could interact with the media and their releasing of criminal names/faces and either misspell some names or change some pictures around. Or similar to what Koji did during his Rumor Mail strategy he could spread fake information about Kira via his connections in order to destabilize him or force him to take specific actions. Koji really has plenty of options here. His much stronger foresight and Extraordinary Genius nature will certainly overcome Light here.
This is an issue I have with this match. We are just giving stuff and knowledge that Koji never has, which is just insane. I think it would be better if the scenario were Koji using his father's resources instead of taking over L's place, which is more in line with canon, or if Light had already caught wind of the White Room and is trying to uncover it. In both cases, we avoid giving a character advantages they otherwise would not have because giving Koji L's stuff is the equivalent of Goku suddenly being given Kryptonite in a match against Superman. The fact that we are also using an inexperienced Light who does have his peak resources (L's resources, Misa, Mikami, and Takaba) just makes it even more unfair. L's resources are something he gained over time, and Koji suddenly having them is like giving Naruto Ki and suddenly making him on par with Cell Saga Gohan, but pitting him against Kid Goku.

It also makes no sense in lore. Why would Watari suddenly follow Koji? Why is the actual L giving his spot to some lab rat? Furthermore, L vs Light was at least fair because both combatants are aware of each other. In the scenario you proposed, Ligth does not know he is being hunted, and he is facing an E.G with more resources than him. Do you not realize how badly the situation leans towards Koji in such an unfair manner?

Before getting into the specifics of how Ayanokouji will catch Kira, it's worth addressing the most important foundation of this argument. This is that Koji massively outscales Light in every relevant form of intelligence. In VSBW terms he is an Extraordinary Genius vs a Normal Genius and in SCD terms he surpasses Light in every relevant subcategory of Intelligence by a comfortable margin. These include Cognitive Ability, Emotional Intelligence, Manipulation & Deception, Strategy & Planning, Reasoning, and Foresight. In every one of these subcategories Ayanokouji has showcased feats well beyond anything Light is capable of and this is obviously very relevant to this match.
First off, the current Intelligence Tier system we have only accounts for cognitive feats. You most especially see this in the explanations for E.G:

Extraordinary Genius: Individuals whose knowledge spreads over multiple fields of science and who vastly surpass the real world's upper human limits. At this level, many are capable of creating extremely advanced futuristic technology, executing complex strategies even under high pressure, outperforming supercomputers,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Intelligence#cite_note-1"><span>[</span>Note 1<span>]</span></a> and even accurately predicting the future through sheer mental calculations. This is where super scientists of exceptional scientific knowledge begin to appear.
It does not reflect how good a character is at outsmarting, so you can't say Koji would easily outsmart Light due to a higher rating. It's common in fiction for a Genius, heck even a Gifted character, to outsmart an E.G. Light literally outsmarted L, who is currently rated E.G

So the E.G>Genius argument does not work out

Also, you cannot just say Koji>Light in SCD. Everyone in SCD knows Light vs Koji is a highly contested matchup, with multiple people having opposing opinions. It's been memed on for being the Goku vs Superman for smart characters, so I am not just gonna accept "Koji>Light in SCD" when people also have Light winning while others have Koji winning. Unless we do a full-on breakdown comparison, this argument is just weak.


Then in terms of skills that will help ensure Ayanokouji's victory here is his aforementioned foresight. Ayanokouji can do better than just make strong predictions since he is also capable of predicting future events via sheer mental calculation. In a battle of wits having this kind of advantage will be a critical advantage Light is incapable of overcoming. By considering every possible outcome of a certain situation he can determine the exact outcomes before they happen. Furthermore, since his ability to calculate is well beyond Light's ability to plan/strategize (e.g. Koji can think of more possible outcome than Light can think of possible strategies) Koji can be certain to consider whatever plan Light does end up using. This would make it essentially impossible for Light to surprise Koji or catch him off guard.
This is too vague to be considered a good foresight feat. I would have agreed with this if you had used the other Forsight feats as Koji's main foresight feats. But simply saying "predicts the future via calculations" is not much when you also have Light predicting everyone's actions during Memory Loss, which I argue are better prediction feats than what Koji has.


Anyway, I call into question the conditions of this match as I previously said. We are giving Koji resources (L's money, name, and connections) and knowledge (Whammy House), which he just does not have nor realistically should (Because why would the competitive L miss out on the chance on chanlleging Kira just to give his place to some lab rat and why would Watari be following him) while making Light unaware he is being chased by an E.G with more resources while he is on his weakest state (No experience, no Misa, no Mikami, and no Takaba). This is the equivalent of Goku vs Naruto, but we give Naruto God Ki and make him on par with Beerus while pitting him against Kid Goku, who is unaware Naruto is gonna assassinate him from behind.
 
This is an issue I have with this match. We are just giving stuff and knowledge that Koji never has, which is just insane. I think it would be better if the scenario were Koji using his father's resources instead of taking over L's place, which is more in line with canon, or if Light had already caught wind of the White Room and is trying to uncover it.
You didn't seem to care about this last match though.. because by this logic, the match up should be removed
 
ou didn't seem to care about this last match though.. because by this logic, the match up should be removed
Because that match did not specify that it was before Lind L Taylor, which at least made Light aware of who he is facing, like L. Here, Light is being ignorant about the opposition, whihc makes giving Koji L's position questionable. Either make this Post-Lind L Taylor or change the conditions entirely
 
Because that match did not specify that it was before Lind L Taylor, which at least made Light aware of who he is facing, like L. Here, Light is being ignorant about the opposition, whihc makes giving Koji L's position questionable. Either make this Post-Lind L Taylor or change the conditions entirely
Just delete the match atp then
 
Light avoiding critical mistakes is perhaps his WEAKEST area of intelligence and was constantly making critical mistakes that L could have used if L were smart enough to realize. Light’s ego and God complex won’t allow him to just ignore the investigation and avoid critical mistakes. Some examples would be Light saying to L in the coffee shop that he knew L was presenting him with “incorrect” non-public info to try and get him to admit something only Kira would know. However, since only Kira would the information was incorrect by saying so he admits he is Kira accidentally. Or Light blurting out that Raye Pember was the FBI agent following him despite L never mentioning this to Light.
It doesn’t seem to me that Light is making any mistake there. He is simply showing that he deduced L was suspecting him and was deliberately feeding him incorrect information. We know that Light’s primary goal was never to appear dumb, but rather to ensure that L could never obtain any evidence proving that he was Kira.

As for Raye Penber, I’m fairly sure Light had lost his memories during that period and had been working alongside L, so he was likely already informed about those events by him. That would explain why L did not become suspicious in that instance. Even if L had never told him about Penber, Light could still have realized that he was being suspected, something he himself acknowledges as being fairly obvious.

The other points were brought in the previous thread and main poibt of previous thread wasn't if Light is smarter than Koji, but that Koji will never be able to deduce that Light is Kira. I don't think this thread addresses those points any differently.
 
To support Reiner's point, L, Near, and Mello knew Light was Kira. It was a matter of proving he is Kira, not deducing. Ayanokoji is certainly an expert in making psychological traps, like what he did to Ryuen and Takuya, but L himself was also setting traps against Light, like when he revealed himself to Light, setting up cameras in Light's house, and even the coffee shop scene. Light's reaction? He countered every single trap set by L, with the sole exception of Lind L Taylor (where he was inexperienced).

Let's go over L's traps and how Light responded:
Planting 64 cameras in Light's room? Light countered with magazines and potato chips.
L's face reveal? Light controlled his facial expressions, analyzed the situation, and made a convincing response.
The coffee shop trap? Same thing, he controlled himself and gave a convincing response.

Heck, I should mention the Yotsuba arc. L and Rem had Light cornered. L had captured Misa under the suspicion that she was the 2nd Kira, and was going to torture a confession out of her. If Misa confesses, Light is screwed. Rem further pressures Light by threatening to kill him should Misa get captured. Light was absolutely screwed from every single angle. His counter? Memory Loss. He erased his and Misa's memories, making a confession impossible, willingly got himself captured for multiple weeks, and established a fake 13-Day rule to make himself innocent, made a 3rd Kira to divert attention away, regained his memories, and then manipulated Rem into killing herself to murder L, killing his two biggest threats in one go.

I don't think Ayanokoji's traps are doing much when this is the stuff Light is playing.
 
The main issue that everyone arguing for Light doesn't seem to be addressing is that this is pre-Lind L. Taylor.

Ayanokōji has not been revealed to Light, and Ayanokōji would not reveal himself. Since Light is unaware of him, he would be far less cautious than he was against L.

Second, how would Light even know he is being investigated or stalked? Ryuk would not be aware of Ayanokōji due to his stealth. Ayanokōji has repeatedly demonstrated the ability to erase his presence, avoid being noticed by people standing right next to him, and follow others without detection. Ryuk has virtually no notable observation, perception, or investigative feats, nor does he show much curiosity about such things.

How exactly would Light counter cameras in his room when he hasn't yet set up the doorknob and paper-trap precautions that he only created after realizing he was under investigation?

Not only are we talking about an inexperienced Light, but we're also talking about a version of Light who is completely unaware that he is being investigated due to Ayanokōji's methods and way of operating.
 
The main issue that everyone arguing for Light doesn't seem to be addressing is that this is pre-Lind L. Taylor.

Ayanokōji has not been revealed to Light, and Ayanokōji would not reveal himself. Since Light is unaware of him, he would be far less cautious than he was against L.

Second, how would Light even know he is being investigated or stalked? Ryuk would not be aware of Ayanokōji due to his stealth. Ayanokōji has repeatedly demonstrated the ability to erase his presence, avoid being noticed by people standing right next to him, and follow others without detection. Ryuk has virtually no notable observation, perception, or investigative feats, nor does he show much curiosity about such things.

How exactly would Light counter cameras in his room when he hasn't yet set up the doorknob and paper-trap precautions that he only created after realizing he was under investigation?

Not only are we talking about an inexperienced Light, but we're also talking about a version of Light who is completely unaware that he is being investigated due to Ayanokōji's methods and way of operating.
This is why I find an issue with the conditions as I previously elaborated.

Mind you:
-We are giving Koji resources and knowledge he never had in canon
-Light does not know he is being hunted
-We are using Light at his weakest, no experience, and no Misa and Mikami. Neither is his cult that big yet.
 
This is why I find an issue with the conditions as I previously elaborated.

Mind you:
-We are giving Koji resources and knowledge he never had in canon
-Light does not know he is being hunted
-We are using Light at his weakest, no experience, and no Misa and Mikami. Neither is his cult that big yet.
I am down for removing this match if Reiner and Twillight are down

Because i agree that giving Ayanokouji something he doesn't have in canon, kinda invalidates the match and should be regarded as fun and games
 
I am down for removing this match if Reiner and Twillight are down

Because i agree that giving Ayanokouji something he doesn't have in canon, kinda invalidates the match and should be regarded as fun and games
As i said in previous match up too, it appears to me as stomp since Ayano doesnt have any feat of dealing with supnat stuff. So im and was fine with it.
 
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