5-B Planet Tiersetter Tournament Semi Finals Match 1: Mira Yoo vs Primal Groudon (9-10-0) INCON GG FINISHED

[Shadowslash125]

The Beginning Of The End.​

Arena

• Via SBA, Central Park.

• Starting Distance will be based on SBA. In this case 4 kilometers due to Primal Groudon's attacks being planetary.

Match Conditions

• Speed is equalized by default, but may remain unequalized if one character can mitigate the speed gap (e.g., through passives, resistances, durability advantages, etc.).
• Matches will use SBA unless specified otherwise.
• Rules are subject to changes on a per-match basis to make them fairer or more interesting
• Wincon is via incapacitation or death
• Combatants are now allowed to magically view the other previous matches in-universe (except for the initial tiersetter match)

Match Rules

• 2 days are given to both participating users to debate. Regardless of circumstances, I will decree the outcome of the match after the 2 days for the sake of the tourney's pacing. While they may/may not be added to the profiles, further votes can be given so that these matches are eligible to be added to the respective character's profiles
  
  • An exception can be made should the participating user notify everyone in this thread that they'd be inactive for a bit or some other situation. A further 1 day will be given for such exception
  • If you no longer have any reason or motivation to continue participating in this tournament, notify in the thread to have your combatant removed (and depending on the tourney time, a replacement can be issued)
• Inconclusive matches are also subject to the above rule, but I will issue a coin flip to decide who advances (unless the votes have a 3-4 vote difference, at which it is completely subject to the first rule instead)

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Music!!!​

Combatants viewing this match can hear the song as well.

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Mira Yoo (76.36 ZT)	Primal Groudon (896.53 ZT)	Zinnia
9 (@DavidTPPM, @M2u12, @DemonicDude, @Thunderman101, @Soul_Nitro_Deluxe, @Black-san112, @Qurbonboev, @Kirua29, @Delusionaltx2)	10 (@DaReaperMan, @Bruhtelho, @Niko, @Friedoil11, @Psychomaster35, @koopa3144, @Arceus0x, @GlaceonGamez471, @VladimirMakarov317, @ArrestedForRobbery)	-

 

[Friedoil11]

I'll wait someone that brings up Mira Yoo's wincons before bringing up Groudon's ones.

 

[Thunderman101]

groudon punch really hard

 

[Delusionaltx2]

This'll be fun

following

 

[Psychomaster35]

Unless Mira can negate Groudon's durability immediately as soon as the fight starts, Groudon really only needs one hit to win, and luckily for it, it has plenty of AoE moves to use.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

We gotta love how groudon has been carried by AP and AOE

it's such a simple its kinda funny tbh (i didn't expect it to get this far either)

 

[DavidTPPM]

Okay so here's some initial thoughts:
Why is Groudon scaling to the full 900 Zettatons? His profile says he can take care of the 900 zetta meteor WITH Kyogres help, with the manga panels even mentioning how his and Kyogres attacks will be necessary. If there's something I'm missing I'm glad to hear it out, but from what I'm looking at it seems Groudons 900 value is a misunderstanding of what's actually accepted for him.

Secondly, Mira scales to her 76 Zettatons value much earlier in the story and has gotten far stronger since then. This doesn't give her any specific higher value but it should be noted she's actually far superior to that value which is already a lowball to begin with. Combined with her borrowed power which is such an AP boost she can straight up OHKO barehanded people she previously couldn't even scratch with a sword, if Groudons AP is actually just 450ish Zettatons the AP gap should be close to negligible and something Mira would almost immediately adapt to through AD.

Thirdly, heat is a bigger problem. Not because Mira doesn't resist heat but because when I tried indexing it I was told I should only index it as NPI so I removed it even tho now retroactively it seems like it was just a misunderstanding. Mira can be completely covered in and slice through flames that are potent enough to burn through concrete stadiums instantly, which should be at least around 1200 °C but this Mira massively upscales from that and has arguments for far higher resistances.
How you take this is up to you, I won't force you to accept it since I haven't had time to readd the resistances specifically to Miras profile, all I'm really trying to say here is that Mira has at least decent heat res that's not on the profile for a silly reason. (I also completely forgot about it before this tournament but didn't have time to make a CRT for it)


As for win cons Mira is pretty simple. She's an extremely intelligent and skilled sword user, she'll try to dodge (and slice through if necessary) anything thrown at her and then either slice through or dura neg the opponent. Given a big part of her fighting style is outsmarting and outadapting the opponent what she actually does depends on the person she's fight and what they're doing. Given she has access to the previous rounds footage she should also know how strong Groudon is and how to avoid him.

 

[Friedoil11]

Why is Groudon scaling to the full 900 Zettatons? His profile says he can take care of the 900 zetta meteor WITH Kyogres help, with the manga panels even mentioning how his and Kyogres attacks will be necessary. If there's something I'm missing I'm glad to hear it out, but from what I'm looking at it seems Groudons 900 value is a misunderstanding of what's actually accepted for him.

Yeah, on this you are right.

As for win cons Mira is pretty simple. She's an extremely intelligent and skilled sword user, she'll try to dodge (and slice through if necessary) anything thrown at her and then either slice through or dura neg the opponent. Given a big part of her fighting style is outsmarting and outadapting the opponent what she actually does depends on the person she's fight and what they're doing. Given she has access to the previous rounds footage she should also know how strong Groudon is and how to avoid him.

Instead, Groudon's wincons are:

• Mostly his range, allowing him to attack Mira even at great distances.
• His attack, which should guarantee him the victory if he get a hit on her.
• His BFR, which, unless summons Red Hare and hops on him in time since it's just Groudon opening a fissure on the ground, should be effective on her.
• Groudon's healing, which he already has a passive healing thanks to Hot Blooded, but also it's given by Groudon's Rest (only weakness of this is that he falls asleep, which opens him to attacks).

Yes, this are the main reasons Groudon wins (in my opinion).

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Honestly we need poke supporters to clarify groudons value

dividing his value by 2 this would make his exact value about 448.265 ZT (@Shadowslash125 ur probably gonna have to add this to OP btw)

that said we need someone experienced to clarify if he scales to the full meteor or not

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Thirdly, heat is a bigger problem. Not because Mira doesn't resist heat but because when I tried indexing it I was told I should only index it as NPI so I removed it even tho now retroactively it seems like it was just a misunderstanding. Mira can be completely covered in and slice through flames that are potent enough to burn through concrete stadiums instantly, which should be at least around 1200 °C but this Mira massively upscales from that and has arguments for far higher resistances.
How you take this is up to you, I won't force you to accept it since I haven't had time to readd the resistances specifically to Miras profile, all I'm really trying to say here is that Mira has at least decent heat res that's not on the profile for a silly reason. (I also completely forgot about it before this tournament but didn't have time to make a CRT for it)

I will say regarding heat, groudons heat upscales from wild pokemon like camerupt who has magma that burns at 18,000F which translates to 9982.2222°C

​

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yeah, on this you are right.

Instead, Groudon's wincons are:

• Mostly his range, allowing him to attack Mira even at great distances.

Could he actually tag Mira before she closes the distance? Especially give that if she assumes Groudon is too difficult to reach she can speed boost with BP.

Plus Toma allows her to fly fast enough to dodge attacks from an extremely skilled sniper who's even physically at least twice as fast as Mira, given she could keep up with Mira when her speed was doubled.

• His attack, which should guarantee him the victory if he get a hit on her.

Which attack and why? I only play the games so idk much about PGs attacks in lore

• His BFR, which, unless summons Red Hare and hops on him in time since it's just Groudon opening a fissure on the ground, should be effective on her.

Mira can actually summon the horse anywhere in her nearby area including directly under her.

• Groudon's healing, which he already has a passive healing thanks to Hot Blooded, but also it's given by Groudon's Rest (only weakness of this is that he falls asleep, which opens him to attacks).

To what level is this exactly? The profile doesn't really specify. It also only mentioned Rest which, iirc from the games, puts Groudon to sleep for a bit which isn't super good in a fight.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I will say regarding heat, groudons heat upscales from wild pokemon like camerupt who has magma that burns at 18,000F which translates to 9982.2222°C

If it's inside its body it's fine ig.

For Mira it's kinda hard to say. The most straightforward feats are burning through concrete but there's a ton of lightning (28,000 °C) feats (Mori, Jegal, and Jeons grandson took prolonged lightning spam on the ground and Daewi took a lightning bolt that instantly burned trees into the back with no damage) and even feats of characters taking 1 million volt electricity, all of which Mira should outscale. Plus for characters like Bishops nuclear bombs (100 million °C) are completely useless against and while Mira is not yet bishop level here, she's at least close enough to intercept and stagger one. So it's not like she should be astronomically inferior.

But like I said, since I didn't cover heat res for this level of characters yet I can't force you to accept anything from this so I'll leave it to others to interpret it.

In case we ignore all of this Mira should at least be able to slice through his attacks and body using shockwaves to avoid direct contact

 

[Friedoil11]

Which attack and why? I only play the games so idk much about PGs attacks in lore

I meant attacks in general, I forgot and s. Btw, if you want some examples, we have either this one (which I don't know its name) or his signature move, Precipice Blades, which he could use like this. If this is not enough, there's a star (which isn't enough, but its cool)

 

[DavidTPPM]

I meant attacks in general, I forgot and s. Btw, if you want some examples, we have either this one (which I don't know its name) or his signature move, Precipice Blades, which he could use like this.

Those seem cool but very dodgeable. And once Mira closes the AP gap completely even cutable. Does he have anything to make up for the ginormous skill gap?

If this is not enough, there's a star (which isn't enough, but its cool)

Lmao real

 

[Friedoil11]

Those seem cool but very dodgeable. And once Mira closes the AP gap completely even cutable. Does he have anything to make up for the ginormous skill gap?

Well, first of all he isn't stupid (in combat terms), since he should be superior to pokemon like Machamp who mastered all martial arts (even though he doesn't show any skills of his own). Also, he already fighted with smaller foes (other than big foes of equal strength), and this might not sound much, but this shows us that he is more precise than one can initially think.

If it's inside its body it's fine ig.

Nope. Its not inside.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Well, first of all he isn't stupid (in combat terms), since he should be superior to pokemon like Machamp who mastered all martial arts (even though he doesn't show any skills of his own). Also, he already fighted with smaller foes (other than big foes of equal strength), and this might not sound much, but this shows us that he is more precise than one can initially think.

I mean that's cool but that pales in comparison even to like, Mira's first key who this key absolutely skill slams.

Nope. Its not inside.

"intense heat emitting from its magmatic body" doesn't necessarily mean the heat around his body is the same as inside of Camerupts body. Especially given the same scene shows him in a forest and he's not instantly burning it down through his sheer presence.

Unlike the lightning bolts that Mira scales to which burned down an entrance nearby forest even without directly hitting most of it

 

[Friedoil11]

I mean that's cool but that pales in comparison even to like, Mira's first key who this key absolutely skill slams.

"intense heat emitting from its magmatic body" doesn't necessarily mean the heat around his body is the same as inside of Camerupts body. Especially given the same scene shows him in a forest and he's not instantly burning it down through his sheer presence.

Unlike the lightning bolts that Mira scales to which burned down an entrance nearby forest even without directly hitting most of it

Honestly, I kind of expected it. Groudon doesn't have either the outside corporeal temperature neither the skills to give even the slight advantage in both fields.

 

[Bruhtelho]

The only reason I can see them fully scaling to the Meteor is cause they can fight with Rayquaza who easily destroyed the meteor and fought the person who was controlling it... but scaling them to Rayquaza is kind of dubious since he is seen as above them.

but if we cut the AP in half then Groudon has an advantage of 5.8x which can be further increased with his stat increase moves and stat decreasing moves he can use on Mira

How does Mira's Yeopo Bongseon and Direct Contract work? they don't have a given value just "they're stronger" so i'm not sure they can really cover Groudon constantly increasing his own stats well decreasing her own

as for the heat thing, Groudon's existence itself caused the suns heat to increase drastically which threatened to end all life on earth and should be vastly superior to any other regular heat based mon like Magcargo or Camerupt, both of whom have statements of heat that just sits within them at 18,000 degrees fahrenheit. as for the Range thing, he has statements of being able to expand his heat on almost a Continental to Planetary scale "Said to have expanded the lands by evaporating water with raging heat. It battled titanically with Kyogre." and that him simply existing caused the heat for the entire world to increase drastically, to the point it'd kill everything.

Mira has no heat resistance on the profile (at the moment) so its not something that can be used, meaning Groudon's passive heat is gonna slow her down either way.

all of Groudon's attacks have massive AOE to them and against Mira who is gonna be standing on the ground, all of his ground moves are gonna be far more deadly than usual like PB or Earthquake. Groudon isn't stupid, Pokemon are incredibly smart in combat esp those that are fully evolved like Machamp or Alakazam, Mons who Groudon should be superior to. as for Groudon's moves, Precipice Blades spikes up outta the ground trapping the opponent before exploding in their face, he can create dozens of PB's all at once and the large AOE explosions, even a single one can make and all of Groundon's Beams based moves have the same byproduct. so Mira is gonna have to hyper focus on avoiding a MASSIVE amount of projectiles being thrown at her from Thousands of Kilometers away all well getting her Stats decreased by moves like Scary Face or Mud Shot, well also increasing his own stats with Bulk Up which increases his strength and Ancient Power can boost all the users stats.

Groudon also has passive healing due to its ability meaning he'll constantly recover his HP while standing on lava/magma, soil, or sand. lava and magma being things hes constantly creating from his body and standing on means he'll be recovering from any damage he could take.

---

Thats not to doubt Mira, Groudon isn't stupid but Mira is a combatant Genius and similar foes have dodged PB before i.e Alain's Mega Charizard tho even that eventually got caught off guard by one.

her Supernatural Willpower and Extreme Tolerance to Pain means she could likely likely fight through the pain tho eventually that 5.8x difference is gonna be hard to ignore esp when it grows through Groudon using certain moves.

her Analytical Prediction and information analysis that comes from fighting means she could make up for having her speed being lowered and possibly help her dodge Groudon's onslaught of attacks.

but i'm currently leaning towards Groudon tbh his ap advantage is gonna be hard to cover esp given his onslaught of projectiles he'll be throwing out which could take even the most mobile of pokemon off guard and trap them before exploding in their face, she also has to worry about his passive heat emitting which should be above that of other mons who casually sit at 18,000 degrees fahrenheit and his heat does emit since his main way of drying out the oceans was through his own heat or increasing the sun's own heat simply by existing.

I'll wait to see what David says about Mira tho since I know nothing about this character beyond what her profile says.

 

[DavidTPPM]

The only reason I can see them fully scaling to the Meteor is cause they can fight with Rayquaza who easily destroyed the meteor and fought the person who was controlling it... but scaling them to Rayquaza is kind of dubious since he is seen as above them.

From what I'm understanding Rauquaza is far above them enough to 2v1 them. The 5B value itself also comes from Deoxys who Rauquaza supposedly vaporized so they definitely shouldn't scale.

but if we cut the AP in half then Groudon has an advantage of 5.8x which can be further increased with his stat increase moves and stat decreasing moves he can use on Mira

How does Mira's Yeopo Bongseon and Direct Contract work? they don't have a given value just "they're stronger" so i'm not sure they can really cover Groudon constantly increasing his own stats well decreasing her own

Miras BP can be a pretty massive boost. It made her go from not even scratching her opponent with swordsmanship to threatening to one shot him with just her bare hands.

Similarly with speed, Mira was slower than Mori in base and Mori was getting perception blitzed by Ilpyo but with BP Mira could somewhat keep up and fight Ilpyo pretty much equally.

There's also her AD which should let her close the gap in stats if necessary. Mira grows passively in general at a not so impressive pace in this key but the more desperate she gets the faster she grows. By the time she's about to collapse she can straight up jump by perception blitz and one shot level gaps

as for the heat thing, Groudon's existence itself caused the suns heat to increase drastically which threatened to end all life on earth and should be vastly superior to any other regular heat based mon like Magcargo or Camerupt, both of whom have statements of heat that just sits within them at 18,000 degrees fahrenheit. as for the Range thing, he has statements of being able to expand his heat on almost a Continental to Planetary scale "Said to have expanded the lands by evaporating water with raging heat. It battled titanically with Kyogre." and that him simply existing caused the heat for the entire world to increase drastically, to the point it'd kill everything.

Mira has no heat resistance on the profile (at the moment) so its not something that can be used, meaning Groudon's passive heat is gonna slow her down either way.

Okay now here's where I'll draw the line. Yeah Miras heat resistance isn't in the profile and like I said, I won't force you to trust me that it should be.

But yk what else isn't in the profiles? Groudon having passive 18,000°C heat with planetary range. Hell Groudon has literally no heat value in the profile so going by profiles Groudon just has baseline fire and Mira can cut through baseline fire even with a wooden sword.

all of Groudon's attacks have massive AOE to them and against Mira who is gonna be standing on the ground, all of his ground moves are gonna be far more deadly than usual like PB or Earthquake.

The thing about AOE is, the further an explosion gets from its start the weaker it gets per m³. If Groudon uses AOE too large she casually slices through it.

Groudon isn't stupid, Pokemon are incredibly smart in combat esp those that are fully evolved like Machamp or Alakazam, Mons who Groudon should be superior to.

Never said they are. But Mira isn't just a kidna decent sword user. She's absurdly skilled.

as for Groudon's moves, Precipice Blades spikes up outta the ground trapping the opponent before exploding in their face, he can create dozens of PB's all at once and the large AOE explosions, even a single one can make and all of Groundon's Beams based moves have the same byproduct. so Mira is gonna have to hyper focus on avoiding a MASSIVE amount of projectiles being thrown at her from Thousands of Kilometers away all well getting her Stats decreased by moves like Scary Face or Mud Shot, well also increasing his own stats with Bulk Up which increases his strength and Ancient Power can boost all the users stats.

Lowkey that's Mira's average Tuesday in GoH. At the start of the world comp arc first thing Mira had to do was fight off a horde of like 50 extremely skilled fighters physically relative to her while also protecting her unconscious friend and another friend who's blind in one eye and can't fight properly with it yet

I think she should be good enough in terms of multi tasking.

Also scary face is not working. Mira can overcome fear so intense it makes you see hallucinations and completely paralyzes you and scary face works off of scaring people so it shouldn't work on Mira.

Groudon also has passive healing due to its ability meaning he'll constantly recover his HP while standing on lava/magma, soil, or sand. lava and magma being things hes constantly creating from his body and standing on means he'll be recovering from any damage he could take.

To what level / how fast is it?

but i'm currently leaning towards Groudon tbh his ap advantage is gonna be hard to cover esp given his onslaught of projectiles he'll be throwing out which could take even the most mobile of pokemon off guard and trap them before exploding in their face

I honestly doubt Groudon has faced anyone even close to Mira's skill or intelligence level.

she also has to worry about his passive heat emitting which should be above that of other mons who casually sit at 18,000 degrees fahrenheit and his heat does emit since his main way of drying out the oceans was through his own heat or increasing the sun's own heat simply by existing.

I'll wait to see what David says about Mira tho since I know nothing about this character beyond what her profile says.

Honestly the only way I see Groudon winning is if his heat is high enough to instantly one shot Mira by his attacks even just being close to her.

But I'd say that's a bit controversial and unsure since while Miras resistance to it isn't in the profile, Groudon also doesn't have heat on those levels in his

 

[Bruhtelho]

Snip

that is true, the heat value isn't on the profile but it just comes from the fact the its naturally above everything on the planet in terms of heat to the point it was going to kill them from that alone, including those mons.

as for its healing, no idea how fast, i've never played conquest nor seen gameplay of it.

i read the "cut through his explosions" and just became 100x more confused tbh so i'm not really gonna question it since GoH is just another verse i know nothing about nor care about.

lemme ask smth, how does her Durability Negation with marionette work? she has the skill from the sounds of things to get up close and use it to end the fight and given she'll have knowledge on Groudon's previous matches, where he also used spamming to win, she'll likely open with it upon clearing the gap.

 

[DavidTPPM]

that is true, the heat value isn't on the profile but it just comes from the fact the its naturally above everything on the planet in terms of heat to the point it was going to kill them from that alone, including those mons.

I mean sure but if we're not giving Mira heat res for showering in fire and lightning then I can't really just grant Groudon whatever.

I hope you understand what I mean - either we're going strictly off of the profile for both or for neither.

as for its healing, no idea how fast, i've never played conquest nor seen gameplay of it.

Isn't there an anime or manga scene? Kinda hard to account for an ability without any real info

i read the "cut through his explosions" and just became 100x more confused tbh so i'm not really gonna question it since GoH is just another verse i know nothing about nor care about.

I mean that's just NPI tbh.

lemme ask smth, how does her Durability Negation with marionette work? she has the skill from the sounds of things to get up close and use it to end the fight and given she'll have knowledge on Groudon's previous matches, where he also used spamming to win, she'll likely open with it upon clearing the gap.

Marionette has 2 ways of working. The first is this one, where Mira hits you with a single sword and forces you to dance with delayed strikes (in this scene she made them dance for like, an hour or something iirc).

The second is the more explicitly dura neg one. Mira clanks her swords against each other to send vibrations through your body which breaks you down from the inside. Mira specifically invented this version mid fight when her opponent was so durable she couldn't hurt them, so she attached a sword into their shoulder plate and hit it with her second sword.

(btw Mira at this point has like gajillion swords so she can afford to waste them. During the tournament she was breaking like 10 per match lol)

 

[Bruhtelho]

Isn't there an anime or manga scene? Kinda hard to account for an ability without any real info

it comes from being "hot blooded" in conquest, so the game. it doesn't have an anime apperance

Marionette has 2 ways of working. The first is this one, where Mira hits you with a single sword and forces you to dance with delayed strikes (in this scene she made them dance for like, an hour or something iirc).

The second is the more explicitly dura neg one. Mira clanks her swords against each other to send vibrations through your body which breaks you down from the inside. Mira specifically invented this version mid fight when her opponent was so durable she couldn't hurt them, so she attached a sword into their shoulder plate and hit it with her second sword.

(btw Mira at this point has like gajillion swords so she can afford to waste them. During the tournament she was breaking like 10 per match lol)

then she probably just wins through skill slop and durability negation tbh, she can deal with his onslaught of projectiles quick enough to close the distance and land said blow

i'll wait to see what koopa says but leaning towards Mira for now.

 

[Qurbonboev]

The most straightforward feats are burning through concrete but there's a ton of lightning (28,000 °C) feats (Mori, Jegal, and Jeons grandson took prolonged lightning spam on the ground and Daewi took a lightning bolt that instantly burned trees into the back with no damage) and even feats of characters taking 1 million volt electricity, all of which Mira should outscale.

Can you give links for them surviving prolonged lightning bolts and give reasoning for why she should upscale in fire resistance for them?

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

as for its healing, no idea how fast, i've never played conquest nor seen gameplay of it.

At the end of each of Groudon's turns, for ⅛ of Groudon's max health

 

[DavidTPPM]

Can you give links for them surviving prolonged lightning bolts

Jegal 1 - extremely long
Mori 1 - similar thing to Jegal but slightly shorter and against stronger lightning
Jegal 2 - extremely long
Mori 2 - long and strong enough to wipe out the city and create a massive crater below the targets
Daewi - mid air and lightning was hot enough to set the entire nearby forest on fire and leave electricity visibly pulsing through the ground even several seconds later
Sunny - mostly a compilation of multiple feats of various levels.

give reasoning for why she should upscale in fire resistance for them?

For Jegal 1 and both Mori examples as well as Sunny's examples they're all characters explicitly below "executive level". Similar thing to Daewi - he admits inferiority to Mira literally in the exact same fight as the feat happens while Mira beats an executive level character. Mira in this key is even stronger than this, basically fighting someone who perception blitzed 2 executives at once.

As for Jegal 2, that's more debatable because he's specifically said to be "on the level of a high ranking priest" but he's also absorbed lesser gods which should grant him their physiological attributes and gods generally have nuke level heat resistance accepted.
So I'd say it's worth mentioning but not conclusive for Mira specifically due to this version of Jegal now possessing a weird physiology.

 

[DavidTPPM]

At the end of each of Groudon's turns, for ⅛ of Groudon's max health

Do we have any established interpretation for vs threads for this? Ingame regen is hard to apply as is but it's especially hard for turn based games

 

[Kellex]

Why is Groudon scaling to the full 900 Zettatons? His profile says he can take care of the 900 zetta meteor WITH Kyogres help, with the manga panels even mentioning how his and Kyogres attacks will be necessary. If there's something I'm missing I'm glad to hear it out, but from what I'm looking at it seems Groudons 900 value is a misunderstanding of what's actually accepted for him.

Yeah that's the first thing I brought up during the Batter vs Groudon matchup although I never got a direct answer. Groudon would still win against the batter even with the AP divided, but still it's odd.

Also there's something that I should mention about the rule:

• Combatants are now allowed to magically view the other previous matches in-universe (except for the initial tiersetter match)

This is going to benefit Mira Yoo A LOT because she displayed little effort when she mopped the floor with Jenny Wakeman and the submitter for Hope forfeited, meanwhile there's quite plenty of info pickup on Groudon especially their fight against the Roaring Knight. Groudon has no idea about Mira Yoo's other powers.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

If it's inside its body it's fine ig.

but the fire inside its body is also what it shoots out

For Mira it's kinda hard to say. The most straightforward feats are burning through concrete but there's a ton of lightning (28,000 °C) feats (Mori, Jegal, and Jeons grandson took prolonged lightning spam on the ground and Daewi took a lightning bolt that instantly burned trees into the back with no damage) and even feats of characters taking 1 million volt electricity, all of which Mira should outscale. Plus for characters like Bishops nuclear bombs (100 million °C) are completely useless against and while Mira is not yet bishop level here, she's at least close enough to intercept and stagger one. So it's not like she should be astronomically inferior.

But like I said, since I didn't cover heat res for this level of characters yet I can't force you to accept anything from this so I'll leave it to others to interpret it.

In case we ignore all of this Mira should at least be able to slice through his attacks and body using shockwaves to avoid direct contact

I don't wanna be the "if its not on the profile it dosen't exist!" guy but the resistance clearly seems too ambiguous to properly speak on, which makes me confused on how we should treat her heat resistance here.

Again i don't want to just hand wave stuff like this but I really have no idea how we would approch this otherwise

 

[Delusionaltx2]

This is going to benefit Mira Yoo A LOT because she displayed little effort when she mopped the floor with Jenny Wakeman and the submitter for Hope forfeited, meanwhile there's quite plenty of info pickup on Groudon especially their fight against the Roaring Knight. Groudon has no idea about Mira Yoo's other powers.

Tbf most of groudons matchups have boiled down to

"Groudon is stronger and can just nuke his opponent with enormous AOE"

She'll know that much for sure, but I don't think she'll know about the other things like his healing, stat amps and such

 

[Thunderman101]

Tbf most of groudons matchups have boiled down to

"Groudon is stronger and can just nuke his opponent with enormous AOE"

She'll know that much sure but i don't think she'll know about the other things like his healing, stat amps and such

groudon is much stronger and can burn his opponents

 

[DavidTPPM]

but the fire inside its body is also what it shoots out

Yeah but that much is fine I'd say. Groudon isn't hitting Mira directly and if she wants to slice through the attack she'd use shockwaves anyway so she wouldn't interact with it.

I don't wanna be the "if its not on the profile it dosen't exist!" guy but the resistance clearly seems too ambiguous to properly speak on, which makes me confused on how we should treat her heat resistance here.

Again i don't want to just hand wave stuff like this but I really have no idea how we would approch this otherwise

That's fair. In my opinion the fact that characters just 1 in-universe level above Mira and characters of different race even weaker than can no-sell 100 MILLION degrees, and Mira herself has countless lightning related feats she scales above, should be at least similarly solid as Groudon scaling above Macargo or Camerupt.

However I'm perfectly fine with just going strictly off of the profiles. In which case Groudon just has baseline fire/magma heat which Mira can't survive, but can be close to and cut through it. Making heat still a viable win con in case of direct blows but still counterable.


The only thing where I personally draw the line is allowing off-profile heat scaling for one side and disallowing it for the other.

Tbf most of groudons matchups have boiled down to

"Groudon is stronger and can just nuke his opponent with enormous AOE"

She'll know that much for sure, but I don't think she'll know about the other things like his healing, stat amps and such

This is also true. The only real thing I'd say the prior knowledge truly helps is
1. Predict surprise attacks since she knows they exist
2. Avoid one shots (since she should be aware of Groudon having higher AP and high heat)
3. General opening moves


Definitely helpful but not like a massive advantage or anything

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yeah but that much is fine I'd say. Groudon isn't hitting Mira directly and if she wants to slice through the attack she'd use shockwaves anyway so she wouldn't interact with it.

oh, cause she has NPI for fire right?

yeah thats fair

That's fair. In my opinion the fact that characters just 1 in-universe level above Mira and characters of different race even weaker than can no-sell 100 MILLION degrees, and Mira herself has countless lightning related feats she scales above, should be at least similarly solid as Groudon scaling above Macargo or Camerupt.

However I'm perfectly fine with just going strictly off of the profiles. In which case Groudon just has baseline fire/magma heat which Mira can't survive, but can be close to and cut through it. Making heat still a viable win con in case of direct blows but still counterable.


The only thing where I personally draw the line is allowing off-profile heat scaling for one side and disallowing it for the other.

this is also fair

 

[Friedoil11]

Btw, the thing that I find funny is that everybody thinks that Groudon is some sort of gigantic dude or smth (like shown in this scene), but in reality, in his profile it says that he is 3.5 meters tall.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Btw, the thing that I find funny is that everybody thinks that Groudon is some sort of gigantic dude or smth (like shown in this scene), but in reality, in his profile it says that he is 3.5 meters tall.

They be writing anything in the Pokedex.
Alain Charizard is at least 3 m based on comparison to Ash Greninja. Primal Groudon easily dwarfs it, it def is at least 10 meters tall

 

[Delusionaltx2]

They be writing anything in the Pokedex.
Alain Charizard is at least 3 m based on comparison to Ash Greninja. Primal Groudon easily dwarfs it, it def is at least 10 meters tall

I think thats because the pokedex mainly goes off the games for sizes

 

[DavidTPPM]

Charizard being shorter than me was a hilarious realization ngl

 

[DavidTPPM]

Since the thread kidna died off I think it's fine if I vote Mira now.

Her amps and AD should be good enough to make up for Groudons debuffs and close the stat gap while her skill should help her avoid getting fatally wounded.

Given she can dura neg Groudon if necessary pretty much the moment she gets at close range I think she should definitely win this as long as Groudon doesn't passively vaporize her

 

[M2u12]

Mira fra

 

[Friedoil11]

After a deep evaluation, this matchup seems a lot like physical strenght vs skill. Both of them can amplify their strenght and speed (Mira with Borrowed Power and Groudon with Bulk Up). Mira could win with her Dura Neg, but from the shown feat, it requires her sword to hit the opponent before doing so. Groudon can oneshot Mira with most of his attacks (except the sun attack) but needs to hit Mira, which won't be an easy job. After all this, I decided that Groudon might have a higher chance of victory due to him having higher strenght and regeneration. Other than that, Groudon can actually BFR Mira, but that can be negated with her Red Horse. In the case Mira decides to run around him and attack him until he dies, Groudon could use Lava Plume, which deals damage to everyone around him. One problem with Groudon (in general, not only here) is that with Desolate Land it reduces his own Thunder attack accuracy.

 

[DavidTPPM]

After a deep evaluation, this matchup seems a lot like physical strenght vs skill. Both of them can amplify their strenght and speed (Mira with Borrowed Power and Groudon with Bulk Up). Mira could win with her Dura Neg, but from the shown feat, it requires her sword to hit the opponent before doing so. Groudon can oneshot Mira with most of his attacks (except the sun attack) but needs to hit Mira, which won't be an easy job. After all this, I decided that Groudon might have a higher chance of victory due to him having higher strenght and regeneration. Other than that, Groudon can actually BFR Mira, but that can be negated with her Red Horse. In the case Mira decides to run around him and attack him until he dies, Groudon could use Lava Plume, which deals damage to everyone around him. One problem with Groudon (in general, not only here) is that with Desolate Land it reduces his own Thunder attack accuracy.

I'll just point out one thing you didn't mention and that's that Mira grows stronger mid-fight. Especially reactively. When faced with a far more powerful opponent. From an in-universe perspective Mira went from being incapable of even slightly scratching her opponent to matching someone capable of one-shotting the same opponent even at half power over the course of a single fight.

Combined with the fact her amps seem better than Groudons, she will definitely catch up to Groudons AP eventually throughout the fight.