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grace was reached last page
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The Sun God Nika vs The Six Paths Sage (Luffy vs Naruto).
- Thread starter Maitreya12
- Start date
- Status
Trihexa102
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yea apparently from checking the last pages.
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And how many of these votes come from Haki/Chakra equalization
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Flampe hit him before he fully utilized future sight. He was just then at that point getting the ability. He didn't solidly have it. It was stated that he "infrequently" saw the same future Katakuri did.
Because Luffy had no reason to use future sight in this instance.
Why would Luffy use future sight to sense someone he isn't expecting to be there
Kizaru, who also has kenbunshoku haki, who blinded Luffy and accelerated beyond his basic speed.
Getting hit by an attack you don't know how to dodge is not an antifeat
Hears your voice and tells others their thoughts.
Interval of 1-5 seconds is headcanon.
Hyperfocuses is cap.
Dishonest as hell
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- Thread starter
- #965
How long does grace last?
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supposed to be 24h but if it's based off of bad reasoning then it can't be counted
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24h
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Who did you vote for again? What reasons?
Trihexa102
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No Flampe hit him was he used FS, we literally see the motion which is why Katakuri missed.
That's the point am saying Luffy's future sight cannot perceive all threats, which will apply to Naruto and his clones.
Kizaru blitzed them cause of his light speed irc stated by Oda.
He can literally precog Apo man, you are making up excuses.
He can feel and sense their intent NOT read their thoughts man.
I am merely using that as consrvative end as no-one approaches Shanks level of FS.
Hyperfocuses is not cap it's literally in the show.
I am not saying Sharingan is future sight, but to it's opponent it gives that feeling...
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He said Naruto FRA
Trihexa102
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what bad reason lmao? man this thread arguing for luffy is gold from claiming naruto supporters are using Popularity and now it's bad reasoning. Net literally gave the best reasonings here but it was ignored for a FRA train.
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Also people saying resisting cellular damage = resisting phasing
Also people denying the abilities that observation Haki has
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Cool. I'm asking what reasons because for a majority of this thread people were scaling based off of vibes and nothing solid. His "FRA" could very well be from Trihexa saying that observation Haki can't read minds
- 3,888
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- Thread starter
- #974
Just wanna tackle this point. Sharingan cannot be compared to future sight.
As you can see here, there are things the Sharingan cannot predict and this is what allows Naruto to be able to catch these people off guard.
This would not be the case with future sight. Luffy would see Naruto’s chakra arm extend out unlike Sasuke.
Edit: forgot to add in the link lol.
Trihexa102
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bruh they are similar enough?
resisting cellular damage and energy overall is also a valid argument, Naruto's cloak would prevent it from phasing or passing through him.
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because I found kaydee's reasons convincing
I watched the whole discussion and I still think that Naruto wins more times than not personally
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Incorrect. He was not using future sight.
If Naruto spawns a thousand clones and Luffy sees him spawn a thousand clones he will account for them all.
Never stated by Oda.
He can sense Apoo but he doesn't know how to avoid his technique.
This is why Luffy got hit, because he didn't know how to avoid the technique.
Telepathy (Can read the minds of others, hearing their voices and thoughts[11])
Luffy sensed entire motions and combos and sequence of attacks.
Kachon sent you multiple scans of people seeing the environment around them.
Which is dishonest.
Trihexa102
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Like what? the sharingan can literally almost predict and counter anything, they are just hampered by the Individuals speed. which is why Naruto still hit.
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The Sharingan can predict movements based strictly and solely on predictable muscle movements. I twitch my arm upwards, they see it going upwards.
This is not the same as seeing the objective future.
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Sure.
Does Naruto have any counter to 85% of his techniques being turned into rubber? Also, sorry if it seems I'm picking on you specifically, it's just that the same people have been debating for many pages and I'd like the extended opinions of people who haven't inputted much beyond dropping their vote.
- 3,888
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- Thread starter
- #981
Sorry forgot to add the link in. You can clearly see here the Sharingan failing to predict Naruto’s chakra arm is what trips Sasuke up.
Trihexa102
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He still couldn't sense it man, are you saying his Obvs haki only works when he concentrates like i said.
Luffy will not see all the clones based on his fight with kaido and Kat, i disagree.
Yet he still can't precog and dodge Apo.
Telepathy can read intent not mind, never once have i seen a one piece character read thoughts or know everything someone is thinking
He sensed motion and combo sequences between characters he has fought Kizaru is the craziest he fought and he only had 5 clones.
Trihexa102
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you are proving my point speed? he only accounted for Naruto's physical body not his cloak as an extension, but we know the sharingan can literally perceive chakra up to a microscopic level.
Trihexa102
He/Him- 1,207
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easily clones spam, wear luffy out till his haki and G5 drains and wins with AOE and pressure attacks, better Range, LS, Ap, versatility and BIQ.
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I said that AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME, LUFFY WAS STILL AWAKENING FUTURE SIGHT, HE DID NOT FULLY HAVE IT.
"Based on his fight with kaido and kat" What????
Because Luffy did not know how to dodge apoo's attack.
When he knew how to avoid it, he never got hit by it again
The wiki disagrees
"5 clones"
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This means that the sharingan can see chakra
The sharingan can not predict the movements of chakra
This is a clear limitation.
This is like saying someone can see spirits but their precog doesn't work on spirits
Trihexa102
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Then you have to choose one, he has to concentrate to activate future sight which is why he got tagged in that instant.
based on his fight with Kaido, he couldn't see the CP0 AGAIN which i keep repeating, neither could he dodge APo's attack.
The wiki doesn't disagree cause the telepathy link comes from Enel.
ok 20 clones to 2000? how is that remotely close?
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You don't listen.
How can Luffy concentrate to activate an ability HE DIDN'T FULLY HAVE
CP0, the enemy he didn't know existed
Vs Naruto, the 1 dude he's fighting
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So I doubt my words will matter here anyways because I am not usually on this site and when I am i mostly stick to Nasuverse stuff which was its own mess until recently but I read every single page and argument posted and I am giving this to Naruto.
I understand Luffy’s win-cons being Speed, Dura-Neg via Advanced Conquerors Haki, and Future Sight apso with his stats boosting via laughing and reactive evolution.
But from the arguments, the speed gap isn’t big enough to blitz so Naruto will be able to keep up, Conquerors will not really do much since not only can Naruto’s clones which have a far higher AP and Durability but they can also be replaced easily by Naruto, and from all I have read and seen in both the arguments so far and what I have read and watched in One Piece; Future Sight will be overwhelmed by the Clones.
Seeing the future doesn’t mean you can avoid it especially from multiple angles and different timing. Not to mention Naruto has more than enough sensory abilities to keep up with those attacks even if they can be seen. Also Future Sight’s range of time is not enough to deal with over 1000+ attacks, because according to my knowledge which could be wrong and i am willing to be corrected it doesn’t go past 10 seconds and that will be more than enough for Naruto to disguise stuff around him like how he did against Pain. Not to mention that Luffy has shown his inability to keep up with lesser amounts of Clones even with Future sight from Kizaru, and yes I know that Kizaru is also using Future Sight but Naruto’s sensory abilities and amount of Clones can in my eyes make up the gap easily.
Now leaving the Future Sight stuff, I also feel the moment TSO’s get introduced into the fight it becomes an instant loss upon contact. And yes with future sight he could see it and its potential effects but if he rubberizes it that still doesn’t take away its Existence Erasure Properties.
Finally, I have seen no argument that proves that Luffy can last long enough in G5 to outlast Naruto, and Luffy instantly loses the moment he leaves that form if you ask me because he not only becomes drained of energy but his stats in G4 and lower cannot keep up. On the other hand Naruto can constantly refill himself with both Kurama and using clones to amass Nature energy from Kilometres away, Luffy will always tire out before Naruto.
I dont plan to comment anymore on this except if I can see an argument that doesn’t narrow down both fighters to be one dimensional in combat and can actually deal with my earlier mentioned points or corrects me on an assumption that I have made with Luffy’s Future Sight.
In short, I got Naruto.
I understand Luffy’s win-cons being Speed, Dura-Neg via Advanced Conquerors Haki, and Future Sight apso with his stats boosting via laughing and reactive evolution.
But from the arguments, the speed gap isn’t big enough to blitz so Naruto will be able to keep up, Conquerors will not really do much since not only can Naruto’s clones which have a far higher AP and Durability but they can also be replaced easily by Naruto, and from all I have read and seen in both the arguments so far and what I have read and watched in One Piece; Future Sight will be overwhelmed by the Clones.
Seeing the future doesn’t mean you can avoid it especially from multiple angles and different timing. Not to mention Naruto has more than enough sensory abilities to keep up with those attacks even if they can be seen. Also Future Sight’s range of time is not enough to deal with over 1000+ attacks, because according to my knowledge which could be wrong and i am willing to be corrected it doesn’t go past 10 seconds and that will be more than enough for Naruto to disguise stuff around him like how he did against Pain. Not to mention that Luffy has shown his inability to keep up with lesser amounts of Clones even with Future sight from Kizaru, and yes I know that Kizaru is also using Future Sight but Naruto’s sensory abilities and amount of Clones can in my eyes make up the gap easily.
Now leaving the Future Sight stuff, I also feel the moment TSO’s get introduced into the fight it becomes an instant loss upon contact. And yes with future sight he could see it and its potential effects but if he rubberizes it that still doesn’t take away its Existence Erasure Properties.
Finally, I have seen no argument that proves that Luffy can last long enough in G5 to outlast Naruto, and Luffy instantly loses the moment he leaves that form if you ask me because he not only becomes drained of energy but his stats in G4 and lower cannot keep up. On the other hand Naruto can constantly refill himself with both Kurama and using clones to amass Nature energy from Kilometres away, Luffy will always tire out before Naruto.
I dont plan to comment anymore on this except if I can see an argument that doesn’t narrow down both fighters to be one dimensional in combat and can actually deal with my earlier mentioned points or corrects me on an assumption that I have made with Luffy’s Future Sight.
In short, I got Naruto.
Trihexa102
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He did have FS, like Katakuri already said luffy was approaching his level of FS mastery which is why he needed to end it quick.
That is the point man? if a cp0 Can do that in his 1v1 fight against kaido, imagine Naruto who is vastly more versatile and has 100 times the clones kizaru has.
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What does "he can INFREQUENTLY see the same future" mean to you?
CP0, the dude who wasn't even in the vicinity, vs Naruto, the dude he's fighting
Do you hear yourself?
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It's explicitly used subconsciously. Try again.
Basic Kenbunshoku can sense numbers throughout entire islands. Try again.
Except he can. Try again.
Laughable. Try again.
Here is Luffy giving an old man a play-by-play on how to dodge bullets and KO somebody with simple movements by using Future Sight. Try again.
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Trihexa102
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kat is not implying that in this scan man, he is literally saying luffy's FS is becoming as accurate as his, to the point he needs to end it quick.
That's the point, the volume of Naruto's attacks and clones would completely overwhelm his FS, luffy would still lose has there would be an Opening which we have seen with the CP0.
Man.
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because in my opinion Naruto has a huge advantage thanks to the clones and in an attrition fight Naruto for me can do it until Luffy reaches the retired old man mode for me Naruto is extremely more versatile, more intelligent and with a superior offensive power even if not in a clear way and the TSO trivially I find them really broken.
I could say more and argue much better but at this moment I find myself reading these discussione between all of this guys also to avoid thinking about certain problems that I currently have and I don't feel like it at this moment sorry
Trihexa102
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How does that refute anything i said, katakuri OUTRIGHT compares his mastery to his, to the point he needed to end the fight quick. meaning it's close enough.
unquantifiable numbers, show me obvs or FS being able to sense or see 2000+
That is not mind reading my god? he is sending his consciousness to luffy to hear him
bruh he still got hit by Apo.
None of thaose sequences even compare to Naruto AOE's and Numbers and you should know that.
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You don't understand One Piece and it's annoying.
The mechanic of how haki works is that it advances drastically when fighting superior users.
Katakuri is scared that if Luffy keeps fighting, he will get a hook on future sight.
He is not on his level, he couldn't even consciously activate it at that time.
Far after this point in time he had to sit still and focus in order to use future sight, he was not on his level.
Yall don't even know how the hell Naruto fights.
Naruto NEVER makes thousands of clones and throws thousands of differently timed attacks from varying directions.
Naruto with clones fights as a group of people hitting you at once.
Naruto fights in union, throwing 1 combined attack.
When he does this
Fireworks.
Storm.
Whatever tf
Luffy will clean them all up.
The CP0 example is shit because the CP0 example is Luffy getting offguarded while in another fight. Luffy will not be surprised by HIS OWN OPPONENT
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You keep talking about the same shit and you don't understand anything of one piece yet you make objective claims based on ignorance and googled scans
First you said mind reading was a enel devil fruit application
Then you said that mantra is a different type of kenbun
Then you said future sight doesn't actually see the future
Then you said that it's never said that kenbun reads minds
You see things, you disagree, you make up what you want, then you say we're overhyping luffy's capabilities.
Then you compare it to naruto fighting a dude who predicts movements through muscle movements and you think it's the same as future sight and it's aggravating cause
1. You don't know what you're talking about
2. You talk like you do
3. Everyone who doesn't read One Piece agrees for your terrible reasons
First you said mind reading was a enel devil fruit application
Then you said that mantra is a different type of kenbun
Then you said future sight doesn't actually see the future
Then you said that it's never said that kenbun reads minds
You see things, you disagree, you make up what you want, then you say we're overhyping luffy's capabilities.
Then you compare it to naruto fighting a dude who predicts movements through muscle movements and you think it's the same as future sight and it's aggravating cause
1. You don't know what you're talking about
2. You talk like you do
3. Everyone who doesn't read One Piece agrees for your terrible reasons
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Katakuri seeing the future from multiple angles.
Luffy seeing the future from multiple angles.
Shanks seeing the future from multiple angles.
Need I say more?
You need to look at the profiles. Naruto's durability is 59 Zettatons. His clones are lower than that, but still around that 59 Zettatons value. Gear 5th Luffy's physicals are 59 Zettatons. Luffy's Armament Haki is far above that, and his Conqueror's Haki several times stronger than Armament Haki. There is no universe where they have higher durability, let alone "far higher"
The speed gap is 4x. As @Nierre mentioned, Luffy can use any of his other gears on top of Gear 5th, which includes Gear 2nd, which allows Luffy to blitz other blitz amps such as Soru. At Luffy's peak he absolutely can blitz Naruto. All it takes is for you to look at his profile.
Kizaru is far faster than Naruto so he had advantages that Luffy does not. Kizaru literally turned each of his Danmaku bullets into clones so I'm unsure how you can say with full confidence that he had lesser clones than Naruto. And even if he did, the gap is made up by speed that Naruto does not have.
Except it does. When Luffy turns something into rubber, he completely takes away their other properties. For example, when he used his powers on Kaidou's Bolo Breath, instead of melting through rock and detonating as it did a chapter before, it bounced back as rubber ball and didn't detonate until it left his range of influence.
Similarly, Luffy hit away nukes that explode on contact by with Subjective Reality simply because he believed they were poison balls instead.
Trihexa102
He/Him- 1,207
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man, he literally says it on panel that luffy is getting as accurate as him. i can't keep repeating myself. Why would Katakuri want to end it quickly if luffy can't still consciouly activate it?
He probably rivaled Kat's FS by the end of whole cake but that's my opinion.
Now you are arguing i don't know how Naruto fights?
Naruto attacks from different directions, regardless of thousands of aimed attacks. This same clones could fight madara's Limbo.
Naruto adapts and is very versatile, he can throw Nine different rasenshurken while which other clones are attacking as well, I just don't find it to be true that luffy can deal with all that unfortunately.
CP0 instance IS there as an example of FS drawbacks like i keep saying.
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