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Yixuan(Zenless Zone Zero)-7
Makoto Misumi(Pre-Destruction of Rotsgard{Restricted})-1
Inconclusive-2
Distance: 10 meters
Speed Equalized
SBA for the rest
Last edited:
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High Preceptor vs Magic Archer(Yixuan{Zenless Zone Zero} vs Makoto Misumi{Tsuki ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu}) 7-1-2(Grace)
- Thread starter MysticBrawler
- Start date
Yixuan(Zenless Zone Zero)-7
Makoto Misumi(Pre-Destruction of Rotsgard{Restricted})-1
Inconclusive-2
Distance: 10 meters
Speed Equalized
SBA for the rest
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ok i'm gonna do my best to give an "analysis" of sorts but i'ma be honest not only do i not know anything about this guy or the series he's from but his profile is also a mess
for starters, stats wise, yixuan's at the usual upscaling from 10.68 KT and 1,313 tons. only issue is, i have no clue where makoto scales. there aren't any calcs on his profile or his verse's page as a whole that i can rely on. he scales to town level for being stronger than superior dragons, but both of the superior dragon's pages also just state that they scale to or are stronger than other characters who also don't have calcs supporting their AP values. for all i know he could be anywhere from like, 5KT to 100KT which obviously can drastically affect how this MU goes. his profile also just lists him as superhuman for LS, not sure how accurate that is but it just means that yixuan has a ridiculous LS advantage, so there's that i guess. if he has specific values he scales to feel free to inform me but i genuinely could not find anything on his page at all
as far as abilities go, they seem to match each other in a lot of aspects, with yixuan having things makoto doesn't and vice versa. something that jumped out to me immediately is the fact that makoto does seem to resist a majority of the effects of ether corruption (transmutation, perception manip, mind manip, and fear manip) so that's good for him, it means that if the fight progresses long enough he can keep fighting even while suffering under the effects of ether corruption. both seem to be able to fly, both have enhanced senses, both have danmaku, both can power null, both can create forcefields, both can teleport, both can purify stuff, etc etc. makoto's abilities seem to be a lot trickier as he apparently has stuff like various elemental manips, limited law manip, portal creation and BFR, probability negation and limited reality warping, so that's stuff that all seems capable of tripping up yixuan. only issue is that again, there aren't really any links or anything showing a lot of these abilities in action, so i have no idea what exactly they do or how good a lot of them are. going through the listed abilities on his profile though :
asora - so from my understanding this is his home domain that he can willingly open portals to, and i'm guessing this is where his portal creation/BFR comes from. i don't know how in character it is for him to just open a portal here and trap people here, but it could be an option that yixuan doesn't have an answer for. obviously he'd have to surprise her with a portal and somehow either force her into it or catch her off guard to go into it, but it at least is an option. he also seems to get some of his specific abilities here, namely the reality warping and summoning. i also don't know if he'd just transport himself and yixuan there just to give him a home field advantage (i would imagine maybe since he does get more abilities within the dimension but idk)
brid - kinda just seems like a basic attack spell. assuming AP is just relative for now (to make things easier because again, idk where exactly his AP's at), yixuan can either just block it with a forcefield/her ink, counter it with one of her own energy based attacks, or just dodge it
mist gate - it seems like this is the aforementioned portal creation that lets him travel to and from asora. it does say nulling it with magic techniques doesn't work, but 1. ether techniques aren't really "magic" per say, and 2. yixuan's power null is able to work against ethereals, who's abilities are tied to their very biology, so probably worth noting. she might be able to power null the portals regardless but i guess that's up to interpretation
fire arrow - seems similar to brid, although the fire properties, higher piercing power and explosion upon contact will be more dangerous. still though, yixuan can probably either just counter it or dodge it
field - this seems really strong. assuming "sealing all use of magic" applies to yixuan's ether techniques, that limits a lot of her options and it'd make her way easier to deal with. not sure of it's range though, so yixuan might just be able to play keep away considering she's not opposed to spamming attacks from a distance
water arrow - basically the same thoughts as fire arrows, although freezing on contact is also nifty to have
friend of the moon god + owner of unconventional luck - so both of these seem to grant makoto favorability and make him lucky, although from the description of BAD, this luck seems to be more of a gradual thing that has events play out before proceeding to benefit him rather than something that can actively benefit him mid fight. not sure how much of a factor it'll actually have within the fight, but if it works differently feel free to correct me
death needle and moon element seem to be tied to his later keys so i won't talk about those. but just going off of abilities, i would probably say yixuan can handle or deal with a lot of the stuff makoto has, the tricky things are mainly just the potential of getting BFR'd the magic nullifying field. i just don't know what makoto's AP is looking like. if he's weaker than yixuan then i think she's just pretty easily overpowering all of his attacks, and coupled with the massive LS disparity, that's probably enough to pummel him. if he's stronger than her, then it's a lot trickier for her because then she likely can't rely on things like her forcefields and is probably going to have to rely on vital view and her mobility to avoid taking lethal hits. i can't really side with anyone atm because i just need to know more about makoto's stuff, but that's my two cents for now at least
for starters, stats wise, yixuan's at the usual upscaling from 10.68 KT and 1,313 tons. only issue is, i have no clue where makoto scales. there aren't any calcs on his profile or his verse's page as a whole that i can rely on. he scales to town level for being stronger than superior dragons, but both of the superior dragon's pages also just state that they scale to or are stronger than other characters who also don't have calcs supporting their AP values. for all i know he could be anywhere from like, 5KT to 100KT which obviously can drastically affect how this MU goes. his profile also just lists him as superhuman for LS, not sure how accurate that is but it just means that yixuan has a ridiculous LS advantage, so there's that i guess. if he has specific values he scales to feel free to inform me but i genuinely could not find anything on his page at all
as far as abilities go, they seem to match each other in a lot of aspects, with yixuan having things makoto doesn't and vice versa. something that jumped out to me immediately is the fact that makoto does seem to resist a majority of the effects of ether corruption (transmutation, perception manip, mind manip, and fear manip) so that's good for him, it means that if the fight progresses long enough he can keep fighting even while suffering under the effects of ether corruption. both seem to be able to fly, both have enhanced senses, both have danmaku, both can power null, both can create forcefields, both can teleport, both can purify stuff, etc etc. makoto's abilities seem to be a lot trickier as he apparently has stuff like various elemental manips, limited law manip, portal creation and BFR, probability negation and limited reality warping, so that's stuff that all seems capable of tripping up yixuan. only issue is that again, there aren't really any links or anything showing a lot of these abilities in action, so i have no idea what exactly they do or how good a lot of them are. going through the listed abilities on his profile though :
asora - so from my understanding this is his home domain that he can willingly open portals to, and i'm guessing this is where his portal creation/BFR comes from. i don't know how in character it is for him to just open a portal here and trap people here, but it could be an option that yixuan doesn't have an answer for. obviously he'd have to surprise her with a portal and somehow either force her into it or catch her off guard to go into it, but it at least is an option. he also seems to get some of his specific abilities here, namely the reality warping and summoning. i also don't know if he'd just transport himself and yixuan there just to give him a home field advantage (i would imagine maybe since he does get more abilities within the dimension but idk)
brid - kinda just seems like a basic attack spell. assuming AP is just relative for now (to make things easier because again, idk where exactly his AP's at), yixuan can either just block it with a forcefield/her ink, counter it with one of her own energy based attacks, or just dodge it
mist gate - it seems like this is the aforementioned portal creation that lets him travel to and from asora. it does say nulling it with magic techniques doesn't work, but 1. ether techniques aren't really "magic" per say, and 2. yixuan's power null is able to work against ethereals, who's abilities are tied to their very biology, so probably worth noting. she might be able to power null the portals regardless but i guess that's up to interpretation
fire arrow - seems similar to brid, although the fire properties, higher piercing power and explosion upon contact will be more dangerous. still though, yixuan can probably either just counter it or dodge it
field - this seems really strong. assuming "sealing all use of magic" applies to yixuan's ether techniques, that limits a lot of her options and it'd make her way easier to deal with. not sure of it's range though, so yixuan might just be able to play keep away considering she's not opposed to spamming attacks from a distance
water arrow - basically the same thoughts as fire arrows, although freezing on contact is also nifty to have
friend of the moon god + owner of unconventional luck - so both of these seem to grant makoto favorability and make him lucky, although from the description of BAD, this luck seems to be more of a gradual thing that has events play out before proceeding to benefit him rather than something that can actively benefit him mid fight. not sure how much of a factor it'll actually have within the fight, but if it works differently feel free to correct me
death needle and moon element seem to be tied to his later keys so i won't talk about those. but just going off of abilities, i would probably say yixuan can handle or deal with a lot of the stuff makoto has, the tricky things are mainly just the potential of getting BFR'd the magic nullifying field. i just don't know what makoto's AP is looking like. if he's weaker than yixuan then i think she's just pretty easily overpowering all of his attacks, and coupled with the massive LS disparity, that's probably enough to pummel him. if he's stronger than her, then it's a lot trickier for her because then she likely can't rely on things like her forcefields and is probably going to have to rely on vital view and her mobility to avoid taking lethal hits. i can't really side with anyone atm because i just need to know more about makoto's stuff, but that's my two cents for now at least
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Regarding AP it seems that they scale Tomoki Iwahashi's strongest attack which according to his AP description has been compared to the bombs dropped on Japan during WW2, while having links to the Little Boy and Fat Man bombs. So that would mean Makoto's AP would be around 15-21 tons.
Portal Creation and BFR comes from his mist gates but he doesn't normally use that for combat., while limited Reality Warping comes from being able to manipulate his pocket dimension.
He doesn't normally use Asora for combat purposes so I don't think that will be a problem here.
Makoto's AP seems to be around 15-21 tons so I think Yizuan can block it.
As I said above he doesn't normally use the mist gate for combat.
Yeah that is true.
I'm not sure if Ether and Mana can be equalized here.
Yeah, but he doesn't pull this out right away.
When it comes to combat it seems his good luck and bad luck just ends up cancelling each other out which results in no advantage or disadvantage.
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it's admittedly something that probably warrants it's own verse-specific page (been wanting to get more ZZZ pages out but i've been busy with school/work and i wanna focus on getting character profiles out first) but essentially in lore, ether is a naturally occurring substance found within hollows that can corrupt and consume both organic and inorganic matter/beings, gradually corrupting them and transforming them into ethereals. although dangerous, people within new eridu have found ways to utilize etheric energy from hollows and use it as a power source, most notably with the shiyu pillars, as well as things such as ether plating agents. a lot of agents within lore also use etheric energy/materials made out of ether to enhance their attacks. for example, zhu yuan uses ether buckshots, and astra has a specialized instrument that enhances her voice and resonates it with ether frequencies, launching out sound waves that damage enemies. yixuan, and by extension the rest of yunkui summit, utilize mystic arts techniques, which allow them to resonate with ether frequencies in the air and use it to enhance themselves and perform designated techniques, such as the perception techniques listed on her profile.
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ok so 15-21 KT, noted. that means makoto should have the general AP advantage here (ranging anywhere from 1.4x to 1.9x), though it's worth noting that yixuan should upscale from her AP value and that she also has ways to boost her damage, so the AP gap shouldn't be tooooo big of an issue for her
okay, noted. so i assume he's probably not gonna try either BFRing her or taking the fight to his home dimension then?
fair enough, i assume mana is something that's kind of innate within makoto as a power source, whereas ether is something yixuan manipulates via her surrounding environment
also fair
what are his standard tactics looking like? i assume he prefers to fight in range just going off a lot of his abilities, which yixuan can match, but i think it's also very possible she just gets in close and pummels him considering he doesn't seem to be able to match her martial arts skill. the AP gap being kinda negligible and her having a ridiculous LS advantage also helps yixuan a lot, since it means she can just forcibly pull him into her attacks and just beat him down more.
it definitely seems like yixuan has the edge here imo. as aforementioned a lot of makoto's ranged options can be either blocked with forcefields/ink, countered with yixuan's own ranged attacks, or just dodged. he does resist a lot of ether corruption's effects which is good for him, but i also just don't think he can avoid getting forcibly pulled into a lot of yixuan's attacks before being beaten down in CQC, which he doesn't seem to have any answers for. his range doesn't really help him since yixuan can either just A. also fight from ranged since they have the same range, or B. again, just forcibly pull him towards her to mitigate the range. considering the starting distance though, i don't think makoto will really have time to get himself in range before yixuan just pulls him in and starts beating him down. even if he could, again, yixuan could just close the distance with teleportation or forcibly pull him towards her, or worst comes to worst, just fight from ranged herself, since she's comfortable with doing both.
i think that's probably enough for me to just cast a vote for yixuan imo, although i'm still open to hearing counterargs if anyone has any
AlipheeseXIV
He/Him- 3,297
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Ngl, have always wondered why it didn't have it's own page. Should prioritize doing that over the individual character pages tbh as you'd probably end up having to edit their pages slightly to remove general ether abilities later down the line regardless, anyways, ngl I think Makoto might take this just because of the AP advantage (however slight it is) but not only that, he just has far higher endurance feats (I haven't played a shit ton of ZZZ story) but I don't think Yixuan has endurance/stamina feats of fighting on after being badly injured and punctured through and stuff. Also it's not on his profile but he should have accelerated development (it's listed as stats amp, but it's not a temporary boost it is a permanent increase to his magic)
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fair enough
idk if the AP advantage is significant enough to where i'd say he should straight up win because of it, especially considering yixuan has ways of boosting her damage anyways + dura neg and limited resistance neg. the endurance/stamina point is fair, but i honestly don't think this fight is gonna get dragged out long enough for that to really matter, especially when yixuan is capable of just forcibly pulling makoto in towards her and beating his ass in CQC. given the aforementioned dura neg + resistance neg, idk how much punishment makoto can take from yixuan wailing on him before he either dies or gets KO'd
AlipheeseXIV
He/Him- 3,297
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Sorry, I thought I made it clear that his AP advantage was only slight, also he has ways of increasing his stats as well
I mean...idk why he'd just stand there and let that happen? Makoto is a very aggressive fighter, and would just create a massive fire aura around himself as shown here which he literally does when being grabbed btw. Doesn't help Yixuan has zero heat resistance, and even then he could just shoot arrows at her which she would have to dodge or risk getting burned or frozen. His magic is thought based btw, like he doesn't have to even use hand gestures to create volleys as shown here. So I don't think this would happen at all, if anything it would just make the match easier for Makoto
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i understood what you meant, my bad if i didn't make that clear lol. but regardless, i still kinda think the AP advantage is rendered moot by yixuan's dura neg/resistance neg
i mean, considering the ridiculous LS advantage, it's not like he's going to stand there and let it happen (obviously), more like there's quite literally nothing he can do to stop himself from getting forcibly pulled into yixuan's attacks if she so chooses
ok this is a pretty good point, and yeah yixuan's lack of heat resistance means this would probably mess her up pretty bad if she got caught in it. although it does seem to have a brief windup before the massive explosion goes off, so i'd imagine yixuan would probably just be able to teleport away if she realizes she's in immediate danger
she could just counter the arrows with her own danmaku, or she can also just put up a forcefield to block them, or just defend herself with her ink. the danmaku and ink don't require hand gestures, and even with her abilities that do, unless the arrows basically fire instantly at their targets, i don't see why she wouldn't just be fast enough to put up a gesture to summon a forcefield or something like that. she was able to react fast enough to do so when miyabi was literally inches away from stabbing her through the face
AlipheeseXIV
He/Him- 3,297
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Oh, you mean from a purely AP perspective? Yeah sure. I just meant that his AP advantage being slightly higher means he can deal slightly more damage to her, not that she gets outdone in the AP department or something
Yeah I wasn't trying to say he could out LS her, I was saying that if she does grab him she will be forced to let him go and he can consistently use that to counter the LS advantage from grabs, holds, or really any close quarters encounter. Even if she just pulled him into the range of her attacks, he could still do this, though does Yixuan even do these things all that often in character?
Yeah this is fair, the way I see it, in the same vein that Yixuan has the advantage in H2H combat, Makoto has the advantage in long range combat. Personally I think Makoto has a more realistic chance of winning because just one hit from one of his fire based attacks is doing enough damage to permanently shift the fight in his favor, his ranged attacks can be fired forever in a constant stream (so long as he has mana) and he has a move that can basically one shot her (as the fire aura explosion thing could rip limbs from Mio who was relative to him and in fact, slightly stronger) she only survived because of regen. Meanwhile, even though Yixuan's abilities are dura neg, Makoto has shown consistently that he can continue fighting on with serious injuries at a relatively high level
AlipheeseXIV
He/Him- 3,297
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So, I'm leaning towards him personally. Can put my vote on him for now
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that's fair, yeah. for whether or not she does it in-character, the suction properties are tied into a lot of her moves (her alternative basic attack + both of her ultimates), so i think it's not unreasonable to assume it's something she'd go for at some point during the fight. although if you want to look at her fighting style more within cutscenes/lore, she's more of a counterattacker. both of these are good examples, but she focuses more on evasion/countering opponents, examining their fighting styles, and promptly counterattacking when she sees an opening. given that you described makoto as being an aggressive fighter here, i think she can definitely leverage that to see what he's capable of and strategize accordingly, especially given her general intelligence and battle IQ
to be fair, makoto does have better stamina, but yixuan technically doesn't have like, a limited amount of ether for her techniques either. she draws ether from the environment around her, so she essentially has an infinite surplus of it at her disposal. she doesn't need to worry about running out of ether or anything like that, moreso just losing a general battle of attrition if she can't put him down fast enough.
i do still side with yixuan winning though, personally. i still think the LS gap is a big advantage even if makoto has ways to force her away from him. she has ways to counter and deal with most of his attacks, and her intelligence means that she can figure out everything he can do as he does them and formulate strategies to counter accordingly. if any of his abilities prove particularly hard to deal with, she could always just teleport in and slap a talisman on him to forcibly power-null him, and in the event that she gets caught by an attack without her defenses, she can either teleport away or just use vital view which gives her a massive perception amp and plenty of time to either reposition herself or counterattack. if she realizes getting hit by a fire arrow or by the massive fire aura AOE would be dangerous she'd switch tactics and focus more on just whittling him down with her dura neg attacks, meanwhile it'd be really hard for makoto to land a decisive blow on her thanks to her mobility and multiple defensive options
AlipheeseXIV
He/Him- 3,297
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I have her in game, so I at least am familiar with her general moveset, I moreso meant lore yeah. These are all fair points
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Yixuan with Sooshirohl reason
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Counted, and thanks for joining in.
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don't forget to count my vote and ali's vote for yixuan and makoto respectively also
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Oh right,
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Counted, and thanks for joining in.
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Counted, and thanks for joining in.
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Bump
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Bump
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Can I just vote incon? Both arguments are really strong so I dunno which one I can decide lel
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Ok then, counted and thanks for joining in.
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So have you decided on which one you want to vote for?
AthelChan
They/Them- 3,168
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I'm gonna go incon for now if no args can be added since its tricky for both combatants.
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Counted, and thanks for joining in.
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Voting Yixuan FRA
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Counted, and thanks for joining in.
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