The Sun God Nika vs The Six Paths Sage (Luffy vs Naruto).

[Aytugsss]

İm voting naruto in this

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Problem with this is that Luffy becomes faster the more he fights when laughing and due to acceleration. At his peak, he's able to statue 35c characters like Kizaru, so he's similar to Naruto in that regard.

this is overtime so it wont be too big of a problem initially

3 tomoe Sharingan is more similar to basic Kenbunshoku Haki, which sees glimpses of the future among other sensory abilities. Luffy in Dressrosa already showed the ability to precog stomp other Kenbunshoku Haki users, and this was far before advancing it into Future Sight. Future Sight is consistently portrayed as far superior to regular Kenbunshoku Haki. It also grants Luffy a perception and reaction speed amp that allows him to view relative fighters in slowed time.

Sharingan not only provieds Kenbunshoku Haki type reaction it also allows its users to flawlessly counter everything and a danmulu of attacks at any given time. I want to emphasize that the sharingan can counter flawlessly which already makes it better than normal Kenbunshoku Haki and naruto was outskilling this in base. He than goes on to fight charaters that have three different forms of sensory (sharingan, byakugan and sage mode), having his mind read while he does any physical contact all the while the shrinagn provieds perfect counters. Keep mind that his opponets can keep up with him as well, a naruto that knows where you are at all times via clairvoyance and his two other sensory abilities.

these sensory ablities are so good that he can outperform aformentioned three sensory abilities while also getting blitz, so i have hard time seeing how Luffy with his inferior inteligence and standard future sight to be outpredicting nard

Clones get taken out by characters of relative AP, which Luffy's Conqueror's Haki falls under. It gets stronger the longer the fight goes on as well, which makes it a feasible option for Luffy to take them all out.

As key mentioned they are inconsistant and can sometimes take large hits while not dispersing

Luffy is actually the person with better reactions and senses here, so hitting clones wouldn't be an issue for him, especially since he can see the future. Them trying to find out Luffy's fighting style would be naught considering what Gear 5th is and how his creativity and unpredictability is enhanced by his Subjective Reality Manipulation.

Luffy can grow in size to several kilometers, so even if he's being held down by several clones, it would not take much for him to grow to a size so big to where holding him would become an issue.

As i mentioned above nards not getting hit via luffys future sight as he would just addapt to all the changes made by luffy via future sight and even outperform. as for creativity and predictablity, these dont hold any wieght when naruto himself is known for such and can fool those with advance prediction abilities with unorthodox tatctics. It doesnt help that luffy is also inferior to naruto in intelligence.

Growing in size just makes him easier to hit with TSO or Rasenshuriken, its less of a win con and more of a adventage for naruto

Getting barraged by Rasenshuriken and Bijuu Bombs means very little, as does their AoE. Luffy's attack reflection worked on Kaidou's Blast Breath, which is big enough to shoot all the way through Onigashima and cause explosions that destroy mountain ranges. Luffy's attack reflection also returns attacks with 8x the force, so if Naruto's ever hit with one of those it would be an instant win for Luffy. Rasenshuriken's cellular damage wouldn't touch Luffy due to Armament Haki Emission allowing Luffy to hit people without making physical contact. He can also turn it to rubber with his Subjective Reality Manipulation to completely negate its effects.

Six paths folks are resistant to the TSO which has subjective reality so Luffys SR working is very unlikely.

As for attack reflection that can be worked around by large number of clones spaming abilities from all directions, luffy cant reflect all the ablities at the same time and while he is busy reflecting those that come his way nard can sneak up and EE his ass with TSO. But for argument sake i say nard gets hit , it wont matter as he would just substitution jutsu out of it so in all cases naruto is coming out on top.

I'll be voting Luffy due to his superior speed and durability negation giving him the ability to land several fatal blows on Naruto without him being able to properly react. His Subjective Reality Manipulation, Future Sight, Conqueror's Haki also gives him answers to most of Naruto's kit such as Rasenshuriken, clones, and tsos. Luffy only getting faster and stronger as the fight goes on doesn't help Naruto here.

Luffy FRA based on Kachon reasonings

Gear 5's Transmutation range is pretty busted (combined even with Haki), it can probably make any Naruto attack ineffective

On the point of Haki, Naruto has invulnarbility to ninjutsu which is made from chakra. Chakra contains the soul, mind and genetic data of its living host, this means naruto is invul to all spiritual energy which would include Haki as it is made from spiritual energy. So all of luffys Haki attacks would be null, layers or not.

moving on Naruto resists the effects of hashirama cells that transmute them into trees, this resistance also extends to his attacks as his chakra would be resistant too. Hence akk of luffys transmutation is also null.

Hmm. Tough match up but I'd give it to Luffy

Naruto has 6x AP advantage while Luffy is about 2-4x faster, Naruto has way more abilities he can throw at Luffy but there's only a few that Luffy can't just Haki-diff out of like the TSO (potentially since it's also noted as Subjective Reality which Luffy can interact with but it's also listed as EE which he can't), just general AP stomp or some of his signature moves like the Rasenshuriken or clone-dog piling Luffy. In terms of their respective ESP's, they seem pretty similar with reading emotions and sensing energy but Kenbun seems to take the edge given that it provides a 360 degrees view, full-on mind reading and also flat out Future Sight, plus Kenbun should be able to work through Genjutsu. Skillwise they're also pretty even imo, both of them are Genius combatants who have a habit of just skill-diffing and improvising against highly trained opponents, so I don't see a skillstomp happening either.

Naruto fought kaguya and as i mentioned above to Kachon, nard can go head to head with three forms of prediction abllites simultanously and that includes the byakugan which has 360 degrees vision. Furthermore skilled shinboi are abled to read the minds of those they come in contact with so nard also has experiance with all of that and more.

As for skill Naruto and luffy are not equal in any shape or form, Nard has martial arts that are considered perfect in both offence and defence so much so that its classifies as stright up attack reflection. As mentioned before the sharingan provides perfect counters and skilled shinboi read each others minds when fighting, these fighters are literally fighting with perfect martial arts while having prediction abilities that also give perfect counters while reading eachothers minds.

They are not even comparable, not to mention nards EG inteligence which puts luffy super behind.

Naruto's wincons: Clone spam detain Luffy with higher LS -> hit him with a Biju Bomb, TSO, Rasenshuriken, or Gamabunta summon to water-diff him / Maybe possession through Kurama / Get close and try to AP stomp

Luffys wincon's: Haki-diff internal destruction GG / Reactive Powerlevel growth to match Naruto's stats and potentially speedblitz / G5 to reflect most if not all of Naruto's kit back at him

I think Luffy's wincons are easier to achieve since he'd only need to land one rush of punches with his go-to battle strategy of G5 ACOC Internal Destruction compared to Naruto who needs way more moving parts to work out in his favor. Luffy's Future Sight also really helps him here since it'd mean Naruto couldn't sneak attack him or hit him with a technique Luffy wouldn't know would hurt him (they don't have prior knowledge), and G5's passive rubberization of everything means most if not all of Naruto's kit would just be redirected. Luffy's Reactive Powerlevel is also way better, meaning that if Naruto doesn't end the fight quickly, he risks Luffy eventually outpacing him. Naruto's go-to is Shadow Clone spam so if he goes all out at the start he could dog-pile Luffy and nuke him from a safe distance, but Luffy is still faster and would only grow increasingly faster the moment the fight starts due to how G5 works, and the moment he goes giant he's full-on speedblitzing.

once again nard has invul so more than half of luffy wincons get slashed

voting Naruto

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yeah honestly reading this nothing really makes me think Luffy has an effective way of even tagging a single Naruto, not to mention hundreds of clones within a time limit all while avoiding things like sealing AND avoiding Narutos crazy strategies.

You can mark me down as voting Nard

 

[Foriaa]

Is this grace now?

Kaydee, David, Alt, Karo, Aytugsss, Wrath_Of_Itachi, Foriaa

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Yeah honestly reading this nothing really makes me think Luffy has an effective way of even tagging a single Naruto, not to mention hundreds of clones within a time limit all while avoiding things like sealing AND avoiding Narutos crazy strategies.

You can mark me down as voting Nard

forgor that gear 5 has a timer like bum Baryon mode

 

[R81handman]

I can’t see Luffy be able to last long enough to do significant damage to Naruto with gear 5.

Naruto has TSO which can erase and nullify Haki which Luffy had not shown any resistance energy erasure or Existence Erasure.

As for Luffy Durabilty Negation Naruto has shown huge resistance to them via gentle fist Taijustu and can easily regenerate his organs with ease.

And what’s stopping Naruto from spamming huge amounts of Rasenshuriken which will shred luffy with dura neg.

As for precog from Observation Haki it’s shown that it’s not unlimited, as luffy will get tired and then blitzed when Gear 5 runout.

No solid evidence that Conqeror Haki can dispel shadow clones as they can take significant damage and still exist before dispelling.

Not to mention Naruto has acess to water release in Six Paths Sage Mode which he can nullify Luffy devil Fruit powers

 

[R81handman]

Voting Naruto for the reasons I stated above

 

[Foriaa]

Naruto : Kaydee, David, Alt, Karo, Aytugsss, Wrath_Of_Itachi, Foriaa
Luffy : Kachon123, Arkansalter2, IbukiDoujisGiantTail, MonkeyOfLife, EtherealCrater, Yoh_Asakura8

 

[Kaydee1648]

Is this grace now?

Kaydee, David, Alt, Karo, Aytugsss, Wrath_Of_Itachi, Foriaa

It’s 8–6 now.

There needs to be a minimum difference of 3 for grace to start.

 

[Robo432343]

Yeah honestly reading this nothing really makes me think Luffy has an effective way of even tagging a single Naruto, not to mention hundreds of clones within a time limit all while avoiding things like sealing AND avoiding Narutos crazy strategies.

You can mark me down as voting Nard

isn't it the other way around? luffy is many times faster than nard here

 

[Bruhtelho]

The King of the Pirates FRA

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

isn't it the other way around? luffy is many times faster than nard here

That’s overtime while nard has a higher AP, invul which negates his Haki, clones that can spam attacks which are thousands of kilometers in range, don’t resist nards EE, can’t sense nard if he goes stealth, better precog, speed amps, etc.

Luffy has realistically no real way to get rid of Naruto while nard can spam clones with water jutsu to just null gear, or hid until gear 5 timer is finish or hide in TSO as luffy doesn’t resist EE

 

[DavidTPPM]

isn't it the other way around? luffy is many times faster than nard here

Luffy's giant form is 40 c compared to Narutos 28 c reaction speed. That's a very dismissable gap in speed even without accounting how Naruto should realistically upscale above this value and has other speed boosts like shunshin and the kyubi avatar. Especially considering Luffy being giant makes his attacks a lot easier to follow and makes Luffy himself a much larger target.

 

[Ozcantabak]

Voting Naruto

 

[R81handman]

It’s now Naruto (10) - Luffy(7)

Naruto : Kaydee, David, Alt, Karo, Aytugsss, Wrath_Of_Itachi, Foriaa, R81handman, Ozcantabak, Robo432343

Luffy : Kachon123, Arkansalter2, IbukiDoujisGiantTail, MonkeyOfLife, EtherealCrater, Yoh_Asakura8, Bruhtelho

 

[Robo432343]

Luffy's giant form is 40 c compared to Narutos 28 c reaction speed. That's a very dismissable gap in speed even without accounting how Naruto should realistically upscale above this value and has other speed boosts like shunshin and the kyubi avatar. Especially considering Luffy being giant makes his attacks a lot easier to follow and makes Luffy himself a much larger target.

hmm ok then voting naruto

 

[R81handman]

We got a three vote difference grace starts now?

 

[Aytugsss]

We got a three vote difference grace starts now?

İts could be better if we wait for 1.2 hours before close this.
For me atleast

 

[Maitreya12]

Is this grace now?

Kaydee, David, Alt, Karo, Aytugsss, Wrath_Of_Itachi, Foriaa

Actually it’s 7-7 since Nierre is also voting Luffy. So it’s even on both sides.

Very convincing arguments on either side tho.

 

[Foriaa]

Actually it’s 7-7 since Nierre is also voting Luffy. So it’s even on both sides.

Very convincing arguments on either side tho.

Naruto : Kaydee, David, Alt, Karo, Aytugsss, Wrath_Of_Itachi, Foriaa, R81handman, Ozcantabak, Robo432343

I think it's 10-8

 

[Maitreya12]

Sorry my bad.

Votes are 10 (Naruto) and 8 (Luffy).

So no Grace yet. Will update OP now

 

[Jaynic1]

Naruto fra

 

[Purgy]

Naruto FRA

 

[Maitreya12]

To give my opinions on the battle:

I could see it going either way but I lean towards Luffy at the moment so that’s who I’ll be voting for.

Some of Naruto’s biggest advantages include his range and his AP advantages. However I think Kachon brought up a good point about Luffy’s accelerated development helping to close the AP difference between them. And while I don’t believe it would quite close the 6x AP difference between them, I do think Luffy will get strong enough to the point where the AP difference doesn’t become as worrying for Luffy. That along with Luffy’s further resistances helping him reduce the damage of Naruto’s attacks such as his great blunt force resistance making physically strikes practically useless against him and his high heat resistance helps mitigate the AP difference between them to the point of being very manageable for Luffy.

A good point was raised about how Naruto may be invulnerable to Luffy’s haki due to the spiritual nature of haki but I’m not too positive if that’s true or not. If it is then it would be a significant advantage for Naruto.

I also think Luffy has a good answer for Biju bombs since he’s able to reflect them back at Naruto like how he did with Kaido. Clones would also not be too useful against Luffy because of the 2-4x speed advantage Luffy has along with his danmaku giving him an easy chance to take out a mass number of clones without too much issue. And Luffy having superior precog than Naruto due to having future sight is also massively helpful for him in this fight. It’s going to be very hard for Naruto to be able to trip up Luffy while Luffy has durability negation abilities to help deal critical damage to Naruto. Luffy having regeneration negation also takes away a vital ability for Naruto.

While I could see it going either way, I’ll be voting for Luffy for the reasons I listed.

 

[Maitreya12]

Vote is currently 9-Luffy to 12-Naruto

Grace has officially started.

 

[Robo432343]

To give my opinions on the battle:

I could see it going either way but I lean towards Luffy at the moment so that’s who I’ll be voting for.

Some of Naruto’s biggest advantages include his range and his AP advantages. However I think Kachon brought up a good point about Luffy’s accelerated development helping to close the AP difference between them. And while I don’t believe it would quite close the 6x AP difference between them, I do think Luffy will get strong enough to the point where the AP difference doesn’t become as worrying for Luffy. That along with Luffy’s further resistances helping him reduce the damage of Naruto’s attacks such as his great blunt force resistance making physically strikes practically useless against him and his high heat resistance helps mitigate the AP difference between them to the point of being very manageable for Luffy.

A good point was raised about how Naruto may be invulnerable to Luffy’s haki due to the spiritual nature of haki but I’m not too positive if that’s true or not. If it is then it would be a significant advantage for Naruto.

I also think Luffy has a good answer for Biju bombs since he’s able to reflect them back at Naruto like how he did with Kaido. Clones would also not be too useful against Luffy because of the 2-4x speed advantage Luffy has along with his danmaku giving him an easy chance to take out a mass number of clones without too much issue. And Luffy having superior precog than Naruto due to having future sight is also massively helpful for him in this fight. It’s going to be very hard for Naruto to be able to trip up Luffy while Luffy has durability negation abilities to help deal critical damage to Naruto. Luffy having regeneration negation also takes away a vital ability for Naruto.

While I could see it going either way, I’ll be voting for Luffy for the reasons I listed.

I mean most of this is explaining how Luffy is gonna defend against Naruto, not how he's actually gonna win

 

[Maitreya12]

I mean most of this is explaining how Luffy is gonna defend against Naruto, not how he's actually gonna win

If Luffy has the better defenses against Naruto, then that’s how I think he’s gonna win.

As in, he’s better suited in handling Naruto’s kit than Naruto is at dealing with Luffy’s which is why I think Luffy will ultimately prevail in the fight.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

To give my opinions on the battle:

I could see it going either way but I lean towards Luffy at the moment so that’s who I’ll be voting for.

Some of Naruto’s biggest advantages include his range and his AP advantages. However I think Kachon brought up a good point about Luffy’s accelerated development helping to close the AP difference between them. And while I don’t believe it would quite close the 6x AP difference between them, I do think Luffy will get strong enough to the point where the AP difference doesn’t become as worrying for Luffy. That along with Luffy’s further resistances helping him reduce the damage of Naruto’s attacks such as his great blunt force resistance making physically strikes practically useless against him and his high heat resistance helps mitigate the AP difference between them to the point of being very manageable for Luffy.

A good point was raised about how Naruto may be invulnerable to Luffy’s haki due to the spiritual nature of haki but I’m not too positive if that’s true or not. If it is then it would be a significant advantage for Naruto.

I also think Luffy has a good answer for Biju bombs since he’s able to reflect them back at Naruto like how he did with Kaido. Clones would also not be too useful against Luffy because of the 2-4x speed advantage Luffy has along with his danmaku giving him an easy chance to take out a mass number of clones without too much issue. And Luffy having superior precog than Naruto due to having future sight is also massively helpful for him in this fight. It’s going to be very hard for Naruto to be able to trip up Luffy while Luffy has durability negation abilities to help deal critical damage to Naruto. Luffy having regeneration negation also takes away a vital ability for Naruto.

While I could see it going either way, I’ll be voting for Luffy for the reasons I listed.

You forgot that Naruto has water style which would incapacitate Luffy instantly and that Naruto can just sit in a sphere made of TSO and EE luffy when ever he touch the TSO.

Also I like to mention that Naruto also has steam release that would amp his AP if luffy ever catches up

 

[Aytugsss]

If Luffy has the better defenses against Naruto, then that’s how I think he’s gonna win.

As in, he’s better suited in handling Naruto’s kit than Naruto is at dealing with Luffy’s which is why I think Luffy will ultimately prevail in the fight.

But tso is just gives naruto heaviy defenxe that luffy cant touch also i dont know if it can be any effect in battle but dont forget that naruto has creation of all things

 

[Maitreya12]

You forgot that Naruto has water style which would incapacitate Luffy instantly and that Naruto can just sit in a sphere made of TSO and EE luffy when ever he touch the TSO.

Also I like to mention that Naruto also has steam release that would amp his AP if luffy ever catches up

Water wouldn’t incapacitate Luffy. It’s only when Luffy’s submerged in water does he get incapacitated by something.

And while truth seeking orbs are very useful for Naruto, Luffy’s future sight helps him to avoid any critical blows or accidental touches.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Water wouldn’t incapacitate Luffy. It’s only when Luffy’s submerged in water does he get incapacitated by something.

With Naruto’s chakra reserves he can probly throw an ocean at luffy but that’s a stretch, so atleast nards clones can surround luffy and shoot water jets from all direction effectively submerging him.

And while truth seeking orbs are very useful for Naruto, Luffy’s future sight helps him to avoid any critical blows or accidental touches.

My point is that Naruto doesn’t even need to fight, he can just sit in a TSO sphere and wait until gear 5 runs out and than jump luffy. Nard has passive clairvoyance so he would be able to see luffy 24/7 inside TSO and know exactly when his timer runs out if his other two sensory abilities didn’t pick it up by than. Luffy can’t do anything because if he touches TSO he gets EE

 

[DavidTPPM]

If Luffy has the better defenses against Naruto, then that’s how I think he’s gonna win.

As in, he’s better suited in handling Naruto’s kit than Naruto is at dealing with Luffy’s which is why I think Luffy will ultimately prevail in the fight.

This could work if Naruto didn't have such a large stamina advantage and defensive capabilities. Luffy needs to find, tag, and take down Narutos real body among hundreds if not thousands of clones while avoiding the attacks BEFORE his timer runs out. Meanwhile Naruto not only already has absurdly high stamina but can actually further regenerate it through nature energy and even use it to further amp his stats.

And while truth seeking orbs are very useful for Naruto, Luffy’s future sight helps him to avoid any critical blows or accidental touches.

Which is also fine but Luffy is a giant target here being swarmed by a bunch of flies with huge AP advantages and sealing.

Luffy is a target that's like 50x bigger than Naruto and has to not only avoid fist sized balls while getting jumped from all sides by cutting attacks with large AOE, sealing, and general punches and scratches with AP superiority. Even if Luffy manages to avoid it all, he's not touching real Naruto while doing so before his stamina runs out.

 

[Maitreya12]

With Naruto’s chakra reserves he can probly throw an ocean at luffy but that’s a stretch, so atleast nards clones can surround luffy and shoot water jets from all direction effectively submerging him.

Naruto’s clones wouldn’t know to do that though? He doesn’t know Luffy’s weakness is being submerged. Also I don’t think being hit by water jets from all sides classifies as submerging. And Luffy has a speed advantage so he wouldn’t just sit and let that happen of course.

My point is that Naruto doesn’t even need to fight, he can just sit in a TSO sphere and wait until gear 5 runs out and than jump luffy. Nard has passive clairvoyance so he would be able to see luffy 24/7 inside TSO and know exactly when his timer runs out if his other two sensory abilities didn’t pick it up by than. Luffy can’t do anything because if he touches TSO he gets EE

Luffy can still attack even without touching. He has conqueror’s coating which can hit you without needing to make contact so that strategy wouldn’t work at all for Naruto.

 

[Maitreya12]

This could work if Naruto didn't have such a large stamina advantage and defensive capabilities. Luffy needs to find, tag, and take down Narutos real body among hundreds if not thousands of clones while avoiding the attacks BEFORE his timer runs out. Meanwhile Naruto not only already has absurdly high stamina but can actually further regenerate it through nature energy and even use it to further amp his stats.

The stamina point is fair. The large stamina difference is a troubling thing for Luffy.

Which is also fine but Luffy is a giant target here being swarmed by a bunch of flies with huge AP advantages and sealing.

Luffy is a target that's like 50x bigger than Naruto and has to not only avoid fist sized balls while getting jumped from all sides by cutting attacks with large AOE, sealing, and general punches and scratches with AP superiority. Even if Luffy manages to avoid it all, he's not touching real Naruto while doing so before his stamina runs out.

Luffy doesn’t need to stay in giant form. He can easily shift sizes at will.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Naruto’s clones wouldn’t know to do that though? He doesn’t know Luffy’s weakness is being submerged. Also I don’t think being hit by water jets from all sides classifies as submerging. And Luffy has a speed advantage so he wouldn’t just sit and let that happen of course.

Your not wrong but after spamming attacks nard would notice luffys weakness to water. A couple of Jonin can conjure up so much water that it’s acts a sea wave and nard is so above them that they look insignificant. nards definitely drowning luffy.

Luffy can still attack even without touching. He has conqueror’s coating which can hit you without needing to make contact so that strategy wouldn’t work at all for Naruto.

Doesn’t matter as the conquerors haki will also get erased By TSO and than luffy himself

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Isn't Luffy's AP value super outdated right now?

 

[Steve1775]

Naruto FRA above, the clones are really busted as hell

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Isn't Luffy's AP value super outdated right now?

Don’t worry nards gonna get an upgrade to L1A so we all good

 

[DavidTPPM]

The stamina point is fair. The large stamina difference is a troubling thing for Luffy.

Luffy doesn’t need to stay in giant form. He can easily shift sizes at will.

According to his profile Luffy is only 40 c in his giant form. Without it he'd be about equal to Narutos combat speed and more than 2x slower than his reaction speed.

So without the giant he's gonna have o chance of actually hitting even a Naruto clone while still being an easy target, now because of his decreased speed

 

[Thunderman101]

goofy luffy fra