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Adding Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 to Instant Death
- Thread starter Azertyhuuh
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What is this? Don’t you see? Well, I said what I had to say, and also, my words weren’t directed at you. Besides, this reply really proves that what I said is correct.
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I am pulling whole images from scan. Nothing there tells his dreaming is "definition of world" to begin with. Textbook subjective reality.
Your claim
From Q&A Author :
So yes I disagree.
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What Azerty sees: The Great Sage’s Dream can never be reached or attained; it is completely independent of the entire world. Even if the entire world were destroyed, one would not reach its essence. The Great Sage’s Dream is the foundation of everything in the world; it is what makes the world exist. Destroying the Great Sage’s Dream would cause the destruction of the entire world.
What the scan actually says:
What the scan actually says:
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- #47
The Great Sage’s Dream is what makes the world exist, and thus it is the foundation of the world, because without the Great Sage’s Dream, the world would be destroyed, as I told you.
I am pulling whole images from scan. Nothing there tells his dreaming is "definition of world" to begin with. Textbook subjective reality.
The author here says that the Great Sage’s Dream does not include the entire Final Ensemble.
However, his dream works on any world within the Final Ensemble, regardless of the type of world. The Heavenly Institution is entirely a dream, and any world it contains can encompass many worlds, but it cannot encompass the entire Final Ensemble.
I have said what I had to say, and everything is clear. And once again, the question was not directed at you.
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so literally ignore Fujitaka words? Ironic cuz you said "ignoring author words is dumb" before
I am done there.
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- #49
the translation into English is wrong. Even I know that. I don’t know why the translator doesn’t want to translate the sentence correctly, and I’m actually angry about this. I tried to translate it correctly, but it was useless.
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Mitsuki's dream is localized and does not affect the whole picture.
Translated rn by MTL
Beside THIS IS SAME Q/A FROM YOU SENT US ABOUT "CONCEPT OF DIMENSIONS" meaning you have to disagree with their translation about concept of dimensions also
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- #51
No, that's not the case. I have just edited the response now
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- #53
No, the translator translates the meaning differently, and I have edited the response and rephrased the wording to preserve the meaning in English.
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- #55
A fan asked the author whether the Great Sage’s Dream could affect the entire Final Ensemble, and the author answered that it could not, and that his dream is limited.
The Great Sage’s Dream can affect any world within the Final Ensemble, regardless of its type, and it can even affect many worlds—even countless worlds—but it cannot affect the entire Final Ensemble. And that is all.
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My man.... The dream part has already been rejected.... (How many times now?)
And the destroying concepts stuff is already accepted, but CM 3 destruction, not anywhere close to 2, much less one...
So yeah.... I currently agree with @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless
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- #57
Rejected?? What does the 1A topic have to do with this? The one who rejected it is the Great Sage’s 1A, and that argument has nothing to do with this. So enough of these conclusions.
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- #58
The message was directed to @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless , so I don’t know why everyone is replying in his place and why you are all trying to flood the thread with comments to bury the discussion.
That’s enough. Everyone has already said what they had to say, and I will also wait for his opinion on this matter, as well as the rest of the staff.
That’s enough. Everyone has already said what they had to say, and I will also wait for his opinion on this matter, as well as the rest of the staff.
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You do realize that by Discussion Rules and general regulations of the site, members are encouraged to discuss matters before Staff evaluate?
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I have the same opinion as Oblivion
And again, his power have nothing to do with conceptual manipulation
This is again just subjective reality. And of course of he is dead the world is dream will ceases to exist, that judt your basic subjective reality feat
It isn't, being able to use your power on other worlds =/= your power is the foundation of the entire cosmology, you are making a huge leap in logic. It is literally show that Mutsuki power is localized and while he can uses his power on other worlds, it is still localized
And again, his power have nothing to do with conceptual manipulation
You can't stop people from making their points just because you direct your reply to one person, it is within their very right to comment. Of course you can ask them to not clogging up the thread with comment so the one who you directed your comment to could have easier time to see your replies, but again ASK them nicely, politely and not post a comment that very much commanding them to stop posting
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- #61
The dream of the Great Sage can encompass countless numbers—indeed, a number that defies counting—of worlds, and it can affect any world regardless of its place in the Ultimate Set. However, his dream cannot influence the entire Ultimate Set. Also, review the question carefully: to understand these matters, one must be familiar with the work itself and have knowledge of cosmology.
The Ultimate Set: This is the world that contains all of cosmology. It is a world that contains everything: all universes, dimensions, parallel worlds, higher universes, possible and unknown worlds, and so on.
The influence of the Great Sage’s dream spans billions, indeed an uncountable number—a number that defies counting—of universes, all of which are merely part of his dream. Even if all universes and worlds were destroyed, if he wished for them to return, they would naturally return, for everything is part of his dream.
A fan once asked the author if the Great Sage’s dream could affect the entire Ultimate Set, and the author replied that his dream is limited and does not encompass the entire world. This means that the Great Sage’s dream does not include everything—i.e., all universes and everything in cosmology—but is limited; it can only encompass countless numbers—a number that defies counting—of worlds and universes, and so on, but not everything. And that is everything. Moreover, his dream does not act at a single point; it includes a number of universes that defies counting, all of which are part of his dream.
Also, before you say this, why not review the question first? Apart from that, if you had followed the work, you would have known this even without seeing the question. That is why I said that this work requires staff experienced in the work itself.
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- #62
I am currently gathering all the arguments, so when I finish, I will come back.
Astral_Trinity439
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- This is just blatant CM3
- What is the translation source if I may ask?
This would be CM2, but I'll see if others have anything to say. Currently I lean to agreeing with CM2 for it
Existing on a conceptual level sis osmfving all concepts do. Being the vessel of the entire world is also something CM2 can do. Type 2 concepts serves as the foundation of reality as well.
What you need to show is whether said conceptual foundation exists in such a way that even if physical reality is destroyed, the foundation governing it wouldn't be affected.
Astral_Trinity439
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Putting aside if your description matches thr scans or not, this is subjective reality and dream Manipulation, not conceptual manipulation. Dreams are not concepts
Also even under the assumption that they are somehow concepts, as Hecky pointed out earlier, the dreaming process is localized and doesn't encompass the entire world, so it's still actually just CM3, not even CM2 (that is under the assumption that it is CM to begin with, which it is not)
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Astral_Trinity439
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True. And now that I see the full context, it seems they are effected by the World Observer in some way or another
Re5yh
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This is deffently type 2.
sukuna171
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There’s also the part where Yogiri eliminates concepts like gravity.
So, making up his mind, Yogiri opened the second gate. He only wanted
to stop falling, but if he wasn’t careful, he could erase gravity from the entire
world as well. When erasing a particular phenomenon or concept, limiting the
area of effect was incredibly difficult. That was why he had hesitated to try killing the “space” back in the Garula Canyon tower.
Furthermore, he wasn’t sure if he could really call the force that brought
objects down to the ground “gravity” in this world. And even back home,
people weren’t yet sure if gravity operated based on some physical particle
like a graviton. Would killing something so vague be safe? And besides all of
that, even if he killed “gravity,” he would simply continue to fall at a uniform
speed instead of accelerating.
After a brief hesitation, he gave up. It was something he had done
unconsciously before, so thinking about it too much was a waste of time.
“Man, this is annoying. I’ll just kill my momentum.”
It was practically playing with words at that point, but for Yogiri, once he
had reached Phase Two, such a thing was possible. In an instant, he
eliminated the energy causing him to fall. It didn’t matter what precise force
was at work...what “died,” and the resulting phenomenon, was all dependent
on his own perception.
to stop falling, but if he wasn’t careful, he could erase gravity from the entire
world as well. When erasing a particular phenomenon or concept, limiting the
area of effect was incredibly difficult. That was why he had hesitated to try killing the “space” back in the Garula Canyon tower.
Furthermore, he wasn’t sure if he could really call the force that brought
objects down to the ground “gravity” in this world. And even back home,
people weren’t yet sure if gravity operated based on some physical particle
like a graviton. Would killing something so vague be safe? And besides all of
that, even if he killed “gravity,” he would simply continue to fall at a uniform
speed instead of accelerating.
After a brief hesitation, he gave up. It was something he had done
unconsciously before, so thinking about it too much was a waste of time.
“Man, this is annoying. I’ll just kill my momentum.”
It was practically playing with words at that point, but for Yogiri, once he
had reached Phase Two, such a thing was possible. In an instant, he
eliminated the energy causing him to fall. It didn’t matter what precise force
was at work...what “died,” and the resulting phenomenon, was all dependent
on his own perception.
The concept of death is also based on Yogiri's perception.
“I’m the one who decides what death is. If it moves, it’s alive. If it dies, it
stops. Your opinion doesn’t matter.”
stops. Your opinion doesn’t matter.”
“Ha, haha! This is the end! Yama has no concept of death! There’s no
way you can —”
“Die.”
Yama immediately went limp. Falling into a puddle of blackness, she
quickly dispersed, leaving nothing behind.
“You know, all the people who’ve said they can’t die, or that they’re
already dead, or that they have no concept of death...all of them have died so
far.”
way you can —”
“Die.”
Yama immediately went limp. Falling into a puddle of blackness, she
quickly dispersed, leaving nothing behind.
“You know, all the people who’ve said they can’t die, or that they’re
already dead, or that they have no concept of death...all of them have died so
far.”
“Surely those other weaklings who call themselves gods would be killed
once their core is destroyed. But a true god has no weaknesses. Even the
concept of death does not apply to us.”
once their core is destroyed. But a true god has no weaknesses. Even the
concept of death does not apply to us.”
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The concept of death is entirely independent of reality. It is Yogiri alone who decides what death is. Even things that are already dead, and characters who are unaffected by the concept of death, who exist outside the concept of death and are incapable of dying—none of this affects the concept of death itself, because only Yogiri defines what death is. Therefore, the concept of death is completely independent of all reality and is determined solely by Yogiri. Even if all people die and everything ceases to exist, the concept of death will still exist, because Yogiri defines what death is and decides it. Whether you are dead, soulless, or whatever you may be, you will die, because Yogiri is the one who determines what death is.
Based on this, Yogiri will possess Conceptual Manipulation Type 1, and nothing has changed.
Based on this, Yogiri will possess Conceptual Manipulation Type 1, and nothing has changed.
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I was just downplaying. This is blatant Cm5
sukuna171
He/Him- 485
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Not an expert on CM, but since Yogiri’s perception defines the UEW and all phenomena, shouldn’t that at least be CM type 2?
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He will already possess Conceptual Manipulation Type 2, and he will also possess Type 3, as well as Type 1.
The concept of death is entirely independent of reality, and Yuugiri is the only one who defines the nature of death and what death is. Even if everyone dies and all existence ceases, the concept of death will never be affected, because Yuugiri determines what death is. Even characters who are already dead, who exist outside the concept of death, who are not alive, and to whom death does not apply, will die because Yuugiri decides what death is. Even those who were already dead will die when Yuugiri wills it. Any being that moves will die—regardless of whether it is dead or anything else, once it moves, it will die.
The concept of death is completely independent, and Yuugiri is the only one who defines what death is. Therefore, he will also possess Conceptual Manipulation Type 1.
Currently, he has Type 3, and because of the Celestial Basis and those concepts, he will possess Type 2. Due to the concept of death and what I just explained, he will also possess Type 1. And that is everything.
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what that supposed to mean even
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I disagree and agree with oblivion decision
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- #76
Anyone who disagrees has the duty to justify it; other than that, I do not want comments that are unrelated to the topic.
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Yogiri transcends such things as time, so his profile can have descriptions from the future and past at the same time.
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They did justify their opinion - they agree with @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless
Such votes are allowed and counted by the rules
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The topic is still in its early stages, and so far no one has voted. We are discussing, and none of the employees have voted yet. In fact, none of the employees have come to evaluate the current arguments. Also, I will miss you a lot in the coming days.
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Interesting Fun & Games thread ngl
Anyways
Now the Death stuff is more or less subjective reality however considering he can directly affect beings that aren't affected by the concept of death via redefining the concept of death or imposing the concept of death on Gravity (another concept which is type-2) I would assume that yes he has solid grounds for CM-2 however since I lack context and my understanding isn't that great I will tag UMR to check and also Viet because it's fun to bother him
Anyways
I think there can be a good argument for such yes. I will go through the stuff one by one
From my meagre understanding the Heavenly world is a conceptual foundation serving as a record for things, typically I would say something like History would be a better fit rather than CM but yes I can see CM but for CM you need to manipulate the concept and I am not seeing that here (gonna wait for that)
Maybe something like
'''[[Conceptual Manipulation|Conceptual Destruction]]''' (Type 2; Is capable of erasing gravity from the world)I believe this fulfills the necessary criterion to be more precise the latter
So yes
Now the Death stuff is more or less subjective reality however considering he can directly affect beings that aren't affected by the concept of death via redefining the concept of death or imposing the concept of death on Gravity (another concept which is type-2) I would assume that yes he has solid grounds for CM-2 however since I lack context and my understanding isn't that great I will tag UMR to check and also Viet because it's fun to bother him
Also can someone get Dragon was it ? That downgraded Eugiri's CM from 2 to 3 to hear his side of the argument.
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