Preceding reality gets you NEP 2?

[Tony_di_bugalu]

So I have a character who fused with the source of reality and upon doing so he became nonexistent

Would this qualify for NEP type 2 as the source of reality would obviously precede reality?

Idealistic Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a sense further beyond conventional nonexistence. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence. These characters often have some form of Paraconsistent Physiology due to their lack of binary existence. Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

No. NEP1 opposes existence already considered binary of "existence" and "nonexistence". Preceding existence or opposing existence isn't qualifiers for NEP2 but something it might demonstrate.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

So NEP 2 is being more nonexistent than nonexistence and is further emphasized by preceding existence?

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

So NEP 2 is being more nonexistent than nonexistence and is further emphasized by preceding existence?

Being more nonexistent is just a layer into NEP1 afaik

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

you are just as lost as me I swear lol

So looking at some profiles they get NEP 2 by:

* being nonexistent to nonexistence

* being a void that "existed" (not existed?) before existence

* Being beyond nonexistence

I didn't check every single profile so there may be other reasons, I'll keep checking.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

you are just as lost as me I swear lol

So looking at some profiles they get NEP 2 by:

* being nonexistent to nonexistence

* being a void that "existed" (not existed?) before existence

* Being beyond nonexistence

I didn't check every single profile so there may be other reasons, I'll keep checking.

its confusing and perhaps not consistently applied

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

its confusing and perhaps not consistently applied

Brother if only you saw some of the profiles I was checking... lmao

I'll keep looking and compiling those and wait for staff here to see what happens but a straight answer would be good.

 

[Fixxed]

you are just as lost as me I swear lol

So looking at some profiles they get NEP 2 by:

* being nonexistent to nonexistence

* being a void that "existed" (not existed?) before existence

* Being beyond nonexistence

I didn't check every single profile so there may be other reasons, I'll keep checking.

Well if only that, their NEP 2 must get removed

Being nonexistence to nonexistence without further context just count as layer to NEP 1. Something must being nonexistence to the idea/essence of nonexistence it self (well you can know that by just read the name IDEALISTIC nonexistence), mean you nonexistence to the whole nonexistence it self

Being void that predate existence also just a normal nonexistence

Being beyond nonexistence doesnt even count as NEP, NEP like it name must be in nonexistence state, beyond that alone doesnt count as one

 

[Le'garde273]

Type 2 just simply you're neither classified as "existence" Nor "nonexistence"

Being nonexistence to nonexistence just simply deeper "nonexistence", not outside existence and nonexistence itself

 

[Fixxed]

Type 2 just simply you're neither classified as "existence" Nor "nonexistence"

No, it not like that. Being neither doesnt even get you a NEP. You must be in the state of nonexistence for get NEP, the page talk of it self

Idealistic Nonexistence:
The character doesn't exist in a sense further beyond conventional nonexistence. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence. These characters often have some form of Paraconsistent Physiology due to their lack of binary existence. Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Well if only that, their NEP 2 must get removed

Being nonexistence to nonexistence without further context just count as layer to NEP 1. Something must being nonexistence to the idea/essence of nonexistence it self (well you can know that by just read the name IDEALISTIC nonexistence), mean you nonexistence to the whole nonexistence it self

Being void that predate existence also just a normal nonexistence

Being beyond nonexistence doesnt even count as NEP, NEP like it name must be in nonexistence state, beyond that alone doesnt count as one

not according to at least a dozen profiles I got

No, it not like that. Being neither doesnt even get you a NEP. You must be in the state of nonexistence for get NEP, the page talk of it self

Idealistic Nonexistence:
The character doesn't exist in a sense further beyond conventional nonexistence. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence. These characters often have some form of Paraconsistent Physiology due to their lack of binary existence. Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence.

nah characters like those from Maou Gakuin got NEP 2 because they were erased as nonexistent

the page says that in binary terms they aren't 1 or 0 but Graham would count as 0 erased into more 0



But like I said above, I was checking a ton of pages and some have what I think are the best arguments for NEP 2 in the whole wiki as dumb as the explanation sounds

 

[Fixxed]

not according to at least a dozen profiles I got

Make a downgrade then

nah characters like those from Maou Gakuin got NEP 2 because they were erased as nonexistent

the page says that in binary terms they aren't 1 or 0 but Graham would count as 0 erased into more 0

No, graham have it because he is nonexistence after his concept of nonexistence getting erased

Nah, if you literally erase the concept or idea, you erase the 0 as whole, so it cannot become more 0

But like I said above, I was checking a ton of pages and some have what I think are the best arguments for NEP 2 in the whole wiki as dumb as the explanation sounds

NEP 2 are not that hard to get, you literally doesnt need to state something like "binary 1 and 0"

All you need is being nonexistence to the idea of nonexistence. Well i think you must read what DT say

I guess one can argue that if the source is accepted as concept then the source of nothingness is the concept of nothingness... well, in that case Nature Type 2 is fine instead of Type 1, I suppose.

Existing as anything doesn't grant NEP. Not existing as something grants NEP.

Generally, conceptual nonexistence alone doesn't justify Nature Type 2. Nothingness/nonexistence itself has to be the thing that was (conceptually) erased.
Now, Yogiri is a higher state of nonexistence than what UEG can tank, but that could likewise be a state of regular nothingness where even what remains of the UEG doesn't exist

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Make a downgrade then

?

No, graham have it because he is nonexistence after his concept of nonexistence getting erased

Nah, if you literally erase the concept or idea, you erase the 0 as whole, so it cannot become more 0

not what the profile says hell some scan even implies he isn't even true nothingness wanked ass profiles

not what the NEP page says

NEP 2 are not that hard to get, you literally doesnt need to state something like "binary 1 and 0"

Honkai is literally getting downgraded because of that lol

All you need is being nonexistence to the idea of nonexistence. Well i think you must read what DT say

So looking at some profiles they get NEP 2 by:

* Being beyond nonexistence

you are just as lost as the others lol



Anyways, looking at all those profiles I got a good idea of what qualifies for NEP 2 and what can be wanked to NEP 2

 

[Bahaha]

The fact that so many NEP 2 characters have the most absurd and contradictory justification in regards to what the forum members believe NEP 2 is ..
I still feel right in saying NEP 1 layer is bullshit and shouldn't even exist. Either you're NEP 1, or you're outside its framework, therefore NEP 2.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

The fact that so many NEP 2 characters have the most absurd and contradictory justification in regards to what the forum members believe NEP 2 is ..
I still feel right in saying NEP 1 layer is bullshit and shouldn't even exist. Either you're NEP 1, or you're outside its framework, therefore NEP 2.

Some do, I agree but others have excellent justifications (mostly the chinese verses).

From what I could find, being beyond nonexistence, more nonexistent than nonexistence itself, being the nonexistence that predates existence are some of the biggest reasons for NEP 2

Others like Fate and chinese novels have some really wacky explanations that fit what NEP 2 tries to be

 

[Lilixa]

Some do, I agree but others have excellent justifications (mostly the chinese verses).

From what I could find, being beyond nonexistence, more nonexistent than nonexistence itself, being the nonexistence that predates existence are some of the biggest reasons for NEP 2

Others like Fate and chinese novels have some really wacky explanations that fit what NEP 2 tries to be

Btw can you give profile link or blog explanation ? i'm interested to read it

 

[Fixxed]

?
not what the profile says hell some scan even implies he isn't even true nothingness wanked ass profiles

not what the NEP page says

Bruh make a downgrade if you find they should't get that ability

The profile literally say that, just look at the upgrade thread

Honkai is literally getting downgraded because of that lol

Then it was a false downgrade

you are just as lost as the others lol



Anyways, looking at all those profiles I got a good idea of what qualifies for NEP 2 and what can be wanked to NEP 2

Bruh we doesnt change the standard because of some poor valuation of some threads

If it doesnt meet the standard just downgrade that, if it meet then upgrade it. The standard never change since 2022

 

[ROZAN-U]

* being nonexistent to nonexistence

* being a void that "existed" (not existed?) before existence

* Being beyond nonexistence

1 and 3 do qualify if it is a fundamentally different nonexistent to the NEP1.

as for 2, I think the case here is some series has all that exists(everything) and the opposite(nothingness) together be considered "existence", existence here doesn't refer to "something that exist" but the totality of reality. In that specific case a void that existed before existence can be NEP2

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Btw can you give profile link or blog explanation ? i'm interested to read it

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cultivation_Realms_(Dragon_Talisman)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Abigail_Williams_(Fate)#Yog-Sothoth

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Beyonder#Matured_Beyonder

Those 3 are by far the ones that have the best explanations (of the ones I have seen so far cuz I got lazy mid research)

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Bruh make a downgrade if you find they should't get that ability

The profile literally say that, just look at the upgrade thread

no lol

bad profiles aren't my problem otherwise I would be downgrading half the NEP characters because they suck, the people who follow those verses and update them regularly should be the ones to do it but most just wank their own stuff and leave it at that yes me too but this isn't about my stuff

Bruh we doesnt change the standard because of some poor valuation of some threads

If it doesnt meet the standard just downgrade that, if it meet then upgrade it. The standard never change since 2022

I never said change the standards tho, now staff evaluated and accepted stuff that's what matters because it sets a precedent on what qualifies for NEP 2

refer to my first comment

 

[Bahaha]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cultivation_Realms_(Dragon_Talisman)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Abigail_Williams_(Fate)#Yog-Sothoth

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Beyonder#Matured_Beyonder

Those 3 are by far the ones that have the best explanations (of the ones I have seen so far cuz I got lazy mid research)

HOW did Beyonder get NEP 2 with THAT justification?? It doesn't even state that they're nonexistent.

Abigail is the typical NEP 2 character, nothingness beyond nothingness. Apparently she shouldn't be NEP 2 but NEP 1 layered hmm

Dragon Talisman does have the best justification so far but would this be NEP type 3 too?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

HOW did Beyonder get NEP 2 with THAT justification?? It doesn't even state that they're nonexistent.

I didn't bother checking the scans but the description is:

As residents of the Outside, Beyonders are completely above even the concept of existence and of reality as a whole, with their realm being described as an "incomprehensibly featureless level" and existing in an even more primordial state than the "pure, perfect nothing" of the Far Shore)

The main idea is the bolded part, they are natural residents of a place that is supposedly pure nothingness beyond the concept of existence and reality which logically would imply they are also in that state of pure nothingness that exists beyond the concept of existence and reality

Abigail is the typical NEP 2 character, nothingness beyond nothingness. Apparently she shouldn't be NEP 2 but NEP 1 layered hmm

It fits the description of NEP 2 but some people above said it would be layers

Dragon Talisman does have the best justification so far but would this be NEP type 3 too?

Probably but the whole descriptions is basically to go beyond non existence which is on par with the whole theme of NEP 2 being neither 0 or 1 but something that is beyond both

 

[Fixxed]

no lol

bad profiles aren't my problem otherwise I would be downgrading half the NEP characters because they suck, the people who follow those verses and update them regularly should be the ones to do it but most just wank their own stuff and leave it at that yes me too but this isn't about my stuff

Then just dont bring argument like that. They have NEP 2 as long as they doesnt get downgrade

I never said change the standards tho, now staff evaluated and accepted stuff that's what matters because it sets a precedent on what qualifies for NEP 2

refer to my first comment

The standard is always there, poor valuation doesnt change that

Like what i say, i just explain that the standard of NEP 2 doesnt need you to literally state binary 0 and 1. You can have it by being the nonexistence that lack of the idea of nonexistence

 

[Vietthai96]

You can get NEP2 by being nonexistent to even the normal framework of nonexistece, though this thing is rare which i admit, people confusing it with simply being deeper level of NEP1

To answer Tony original question, which i think most people here already answered. No, simply preceding reality will not grant you NEP1, let's alone NEP2. The source of reality could be anything, even physically existing source

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I've heard that you have to specifically be outside the framework of existence/nonexistence, maybe it's that "preceding" is too obscure of a word. As characters can precede time and space and still be affected by spatial and temporal abilities, I do think some more clarification is needed for qualifying for NEP2 tho. Not sure if anyone plans to make a staff thread regarding it or what

 

[Vietthai96]

You need to be nonexistent first (NEP1) and then we can talk about NEP2, seriously, if you aren't even nonexistent then why are we even talking about NEP?

Oke joke aside, you need to be NEP1 first, and then not participating within the framework of existence and nonexistence (either beyond, transcend, outside, etc... whatever term you can think of that is having similar meaning) then you are NEP2

As characters can precede time and space

This actually grant you BDE1, unless the verse make a contradictory claim of preceding space-time but still having space-time extension within yourself

I do think some more clarification is needed for qualifying for NEP2 tho

I don't think it is needed, the page is oke enough, it is simply a general guideline (like every other P&A page), we can't keep changing the explanation simply because some people are confusing or sometime, power get accepted through poor evaluation, we shouldn't blame this issue on the oage everytime we a power is possibly getting accepted wrongly

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

You need to be nonexistent first (NEP1) and then we can talk about NEP2, seriously, if you aren't even nonexistent then why are we even talking about NEP?

Oke joke aside, you need to be NEP1 first, and then not participating within the framework of existence and nonexistence (either beyond, transcend, outside, etc... whatever term you can think of that is having similar meaning) then you are NEP2

What about NEP 3?

I don't think it is needed, the page is oke enough, it is simply a general guideline (like every other P&A page), we can't keep changing the explanation simply because some people are confusing or sometime, power get accepted through poor evaluation, we shouldn't blame this issue on the oage everytime we a power is possibly getting accepted wrongly

Yeah you're right, we should blame the staff people who accepted it

 

[Vietthai96]

What about NEP 3?

NEP3 is you are existing but behave as nonexistent, thus created a paradoxical existence

Yeah you're right, we should blame the staff people who accepted it

I didn't say we should blame staff either, it is not like everyone have the same opinion about a feat

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

NEP3 is you are existing but behave as nonexistent, thus created a paradoxical existence

So you need to be NEP 1 in order to become NEP 2 but you can't have a NEP 3 become a NEP 2?

I didn't say we should blame staff either, it is not like everyone have the same opinion about a feat

Sorry, I'm kind of confused because you said the page wasn't the problem. But if staff aren't to blame and everyone doesn't have the same opinion as you say, would it not be logical to conclude the problem is the page not being clear enough for the vast majority?

 

[Vietthai96]

So you need to be NEP 1 in order to become NEP 2 but you can't have a NEP 3 become a NEP 2?

Wdym?

Sorry, I'm kind of confused because you said the page wasn't the problem. But if staff aren't to blame and everyone doesn't have the same opinion as you say, would it not be logical to conclude the problem is the page not being clear enough for the vast majority?

The page being clear enough, but the issue is powerscaling is subjective, so different people have different opinion of the same statement, feat and that isn't something you can objectively measure

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Wdym?

"Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence." I'm asking if being at least as nonexistent as those with Paradoxical Nonexistence would suffice

The page being clear enough, but the issue is powerscaling is subjective, so different people have different opinion of the same statement, feat and that isn't something you can objectively measure

I mean powerscaling is subjective sure, but there's still an objective line of logic for our wiki. Well whatever, not really related to this discussion

 

[Vietthai96]

"Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence." I'm asking if being at least as nonexistent as those with Paradoxical Nonexistence would suffice

No, because NEP3 is mean you are still existing, so even if you are preceding or beyond (whatever you called it) existence and nonexistence, you are still NEP3, but also gain Paraconsistent Physiology due to not participating within the the duality of existence and nonexistence

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

That's what I thought, alright

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I didn't say we should blame staff either, it is not like everyone have the same opinion about a feat

Aye

this is where most of the problems come from, everyone interprets things differently and while some would do actual research on the matter to make a good call others simply are "like aight thats good enough ig"

To answer Tony original question, which i think most people here already answered. No, simply preceding reality will not grant you NEP1, let's alone NEP2. The source of reality could be anything, even physically existing source

Oh, no, no, I understand that.

What I was aiming to say is that if a void proceeds reality then it would count as NEP 2, or in this case if someone fused with the source of reality and it was a void then same thing.

Then just dont bring argument like that. They have NEP 2 as long as they doesnt get downgrade

We can call out bad profiles lol

Just because I'm not making threads for them doesn't mean they stop being bad

The standard is always there, poor valuation doesnt change that

Like what i say, i just explain that the standard of NEP 2 doesnt need you to literally state binary 0 and 1. You can have it by being the nonexistence that lack of the idea of nonexistence

Not what the several profiles say, especially those with godly explanations (like Fate)

 

[Vietthai96]

What I was aiming to say is that if a void proceeds reality then it would count as NEP 2, or in this case if someone fused with the source of reality and it was a void then same thing.

Then it is NEP1, unless the reality in question includes both existence and nonexistence

Then just dont bring argument like that. They have NEP 2 as long as they doesnt get downgrade

We can call out bad profiles lol

Just because I'm not making threads for them doesn't mean they stop being bad

Questioning the profiles is perfectly fine, since people often using already accepted profiles as example. Just don't constantly using them as whataboutism and excuse in a CRT, it is not punishable but looks bad

Not what the several profiles say, especially those with godly explanations (like Fate)

I remember Fate profile currently is very outdated, some of the NEP2 profile like Kama was revised and have NEP1 instead. Root is NEP2 obviously but not updated despite already revised

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Then it is NEP1, unless the reality in question includes both existence and nonexistence

Ehh, some profiles aren't like that but fair enough

I remember Fate profile currently is very outdated, some of the NEP2 profile like Kama was revised and have NEP1 instead. Root is NEP2 obviously but not updated despite already revised

I was talking about Abigail Williams since that's pretty good.

 

[Bahaha]

Then it is NEP1, unless the reality in question includes both existence and nonexistence

Question: Shouldn't there be a difference between NEP realms and NEP states? I see justifications of NEP 2 being "nothingness beyond the _ which is a realm of non-existence and beyond the __ cosmology" which I think shouldn't be NEP 2 the same as being nothingness beyond the state of non-existence and existence. Many characters get NEP 2 by being beyond their cosmology instead of the state of non-existence and existence, and that feels unsatisfying for me.

 

[Vietthai96]

NEP realm and NEP state are all NEP, it is not really that different. But we don't grant NEP2 because X is vaguely nonexistent beyond their cosmology