Spider-Man vs Spider-Man Part 2 (Sam Raimi Spider-Man vs MCU Spider-Man) (GRACE)

[ThePrimalHunter]

The epic sequel to this matchup

Note: NWH scaling is not allowed for Tobey anymore, so no using feats from that movie to determine the stronger spidey. Also, no debating on if NWH feats should be used for scaling Tobey. I have my own opinions on that CRT but this isn't the thread for debating that, make a CRT for it instead

Spider-Man (Sam Raimi Trilogy) vs Spider-Man (MCU)

Rules:

• Speed is equal
• Both are 8-C
  • Base Tobey is used
  • Tom has his Tech Suit
• Fight takes place in New York City obviously
• Both are bloodlusted

Tobey scales to >540.98 kg of TnT & 1,457.75 Tons of Force
Tom scales to 838.49 kg of TnT & 373.8 Tons of Force but 3,200 Tons of Force with his webbing

Tom has a <1.55x AP advantage
Tobey has a 3.9x LS advantage
Tom has a 2.2x LS advantage with his webbing

Who Wins?

"I've never seen you before in my life": 0 ()
"Are you sure? We had a whole crossover and everything": 7 (Dinobot1996, DavidTPPM, Lonkitt, MannyQ361, ByArrow, MaskedDragon908, Primal)
Andrew Mogs Both Of Them: 0 ()

 

[Rex_Eckles]

If Tobey gets wrapped in Tom's webbing, it's over.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

If Tobey gets wrapped in Tom's webbing, it's over.

The same thing is true the other way around

 

[Rex_Eckles]

The same thing is true the other way around

Ah right, I forgot.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Doesn't Tom have a slight travel speed advantage?

 

[Dinobot1996]

I think Tom takes this. He hits harder, he's smarter, and his tech should give him a versatility advantage.

 

[StarShooter80]

In terms of stats they can both trap each other in webbing, since neither of their base LS can overpower the others webbing LS, so on that it kind of evens it out. In terms of AP/Durability Tom does overpower him though.

Their intelligence sections are probably harder to deduce which is better in terms of combat, because it's mostly just for general intelligence instead. I would be more inclined to say Tom has better showings as a strategist but I'm not too sure.

Leaning towards Tom for now

I have my own opinions on that CRT

lmao nice

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

I think Tom takes this. He hits harder, he's smarter, and his tech should give him a versatility advantage.

I'll count that as a vote

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Bump

 

[DavidTPPM]

Leaning heavily towards Tom. His acrobatics and spider sense feat against Beck honestly dwarfs anything Tobey has ever done by a pretty absurd amount. He also just has better movement feats in terms of acrobatics.
Both tech and superior intellect are a big advantage too, especially given how the webbing tech makes wrapping Tobey up much easier. And the h2h combat proficiency he's shown against Goblin is at least as good if not better than anything Tobey has shown in h2h. Similarly his short exchange with Cap and Bucky in CW showed that even while inexperienced he was really good at throwing hands.

Tobey only really has the LS advantage for grappling, which he doesn't really do, and more h2h experience. But even said experience isn't super useful when Tom just has better h2h feats regardless of him being inexperienced.

Until someone comes up with a good argument for Tobey you can mark me down as voting Tom

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Leaning heavily towards Tom. His acrobatics and spider sense feat against Beck honestly dwarfs anything Tobey has ever done by a pretty absurd amount. He also just has better movement feats in terms of acrobatics.
Both tech and superior intellect are a big advantage too, especially given how the webbing tech makes wrapping Tobey up much easier. And the h2h combat proficiency he's shown against Goblin is at least as good if not better than anything Tobey has shown in h2h. Similarly his short exchange with Cap and Bucky in CW showed that even while inexperienced he was really good at throwing hands.

Tobey only really has the LS advantage for grappling, which he doesn't really do, and more h2h experience. But even said experience isn't super useful when Tom just has better h2h feats regardless of him being inexperienced.

Until someone comes up with a good argument for Tobey you can mark me down as voting Tom

Vote counted

 

[Lonkitt]

Their intelligence sections are probably harder to deduce which is better in terms of combat, because it's mostly just for general intelligence instead. I would be more inclined to say Tom has better showings as a strategist but I'm not too sure.

I'd definitely say MCU Spidey's got better combat intelligence

Now, while I think people overhype the skill of MCU Bucky a lot (like, a lot), the fact that Spidey was smoking both him and Falcon at the same time (enough to where Bucky asks why Falcon didn't call in Redwing earlier) is enough to show us that even an early MCU Spidey's got favourable combat skill, definitely more than Raimi Spidey has in terms of pure combat intelligence. To anyone who says that Bucky and Falcon were holding back, they threw giant ass signs at him and missiles at him. In the CW Jr. Novelization, Bucky even mentally acknowledges that he assumed Peter was 14 and he STILL tried to floor him with that metal arm punch

The physical LS advantage goes to Raimi Spidey, but as I discussed in the last Spidey vs Spidey matchup, he only uses web spam for pure offence (shown here, here, here, and here) rather than incapacitation 99% of the time. MCU Spidey on the other hand is far more prone to use his webbing for incapacitation, and in this case where his webbing has LS that surpasses Raimi Spidey's, it's gonna be very effective. I'll provide examples for MCU Spidey exploiting the LS of his webbing more often:

• Restrains Falcon
• Restrains Falcon and Bucky
• Traps Shocker in some kind of gate after evading an attack and webbing his arm
• Web Grenades attached to surfaces can deploy a large net easily covering/incapacitating a full grown man's entire body from a distance
• Webs Shocker's entire body to a school bus with a single web shot
• Opts to (successfully) Web Incap Mantis right off the bat
• Alongside Iron Man, Strange, and the Guardians, uses webbing to help restrain/prevent Thanos from pulling back from having the Infinity Gauntlet taken off (obviously his webs don't scale to Thanos' LS, but you get what I mean here about him using web incap in-character)
• Exploits the Mirror Dimension's physics to successfully ambush and web incap Doctor Strange (this is also a great example of MCU Peter just being a better strategist)

Like others have mentioned, MCU Peter's Spider-Sense is better. It's actually precognition, it's got greater reach (as seen when he sensed the Q-Ship from far away, much further away than when Raimi Peter sensed the end of the train track), he's got actual instinctive reactions (even when his body lacked a soul), and he could see through Mysterio's illusions. It's also worth mentioning that MCU Peter's webbing has more variations, including the Taser Web, which are definitely gonna catch Raimi Peter off guard


Voting MCU Spider-Man

 

[MannyQ361]

Voting Tom fra.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

I'd definitely say MCU Spidey's got better combat intelligence

Now, while I think people overhype the skill of MCU Bucky a lot (like, a lot), the fact that Spidey was smoking both him and Falcon at the same time (enough to where Bucky asks why Falcon didn't call in Redwing earlier) is enough to show us that even an early MCU Spidey's got favourable combat skill, definitely more than Raimi Spidey has in terms of pure combat intelligence. To anyone who says that Bucky and Falcon were holding back, they threw giant ass signs at him and missiles at him. In the CW Jr. Novelization, Bucky even mentally acknowledges that he assumed Peter was 14 and he STILL tried to floor him with that metal arm punch

The physical LS advantage goes to Raimi Spidey, but as I discussed in the last Spidey vs Spidey matchup, he only uses web spam for pure offence (shown here, here, here, and here) rather than incapacitation 99% of the time. MCU Spidey on the other hand is far more prone to use his webbing for incapacitation, and in this case where his webbing has LS that surpasses Raimi Spidey's, it's gonna be very effective. I'll provide examples for MCU Spidey exploiting the LS of his webbing more often:

• Restrains Falcon
• Restrains Falcon and Bucky
• Traps Shocker in some kind of gate after evading an attack and webbing his arm
• Web Grenades attached to surfaces can deploy a large net easily covering/incapacitating a full grown man's entire body from a distance
• Webs Shocker's entire body to a school bus with a single web shot
• Opts to (successfully) Web Incap Mantis right off the bat
• Alongside Iron Man, Strange, and the Guardians, uses webbing to help restrain/prevent Thanos from pulling back from having the Infinity Gauntlet taken off (obviously his webs don't scale to Thanos' LS, but you get what I mean here about him using web incap in-character)
• Exploits the Mirror Dimension's physics to successfully ambush and web incap Doctor Strange (this is also a great example of MCU Peter just being a better strategist)

Like others have mentioned, MCU Peter's Spider-Sense is better. It's actually precognition, it's got greater reach (as seen when he sensed the Q-Ship from far away, much further away than when Raimi Peter sensed the end of the train track), he's got actual instinctive reactions (even when his body lacked a soul), and he could see through Mysterio's illusions. It's also worth mentioning that MCU Peter's webbing has more variations, including the Taser Web, which are definitely gonna catch Raimi Peter off guard


Voting MCU Spider-Man

Voting Tom fra.

Votes counted

 

[ByArrow]

Tom FRA

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Tom FRA

Vote counted

 

[Lonkitt]

Bump

 

[MaskedDragon908]

Oh, Masked forgot to comment.
Masked agrees with both DavidTPPM and Lonkitt.
However, they will note that if both are blood-lusted, then doesn't Mr. Spidey MCU just activate Instant Kill mode?
Masked isn't sure of its effectiveness, but having the suit analyze lethal methods of attack sounds very useful.
(Can someone remove "Instant Kill Mode is a feature on the Tech Suit and the Iron Spider which gives Spider-Man's webs and Spider-Legs the ability to instantly kill anything they touch." from his page, please? Or does that need a CRT?)

Masked will vote for Mr. Spidey MCU FRA.
Rami has a chance due to higher base LS, but it's not as likely.

I'd definitely say MCU Spidey's got better combat intelligence

Now, while I think people overhype the skill of MCU Bucky a lot (like, a lot)

Side note, but how would your rank the combat intelligence of the MCU?
More specifically, how much of Bucky's skill is "overhyped", and how does it compare to other characters in other franchises?

The physical LS advantage goes to Raimi Spidey, but as I discussed in the last Spidey vs Spidey matchup, he only uses web spam for pure offence (shown here, here, here, and here) rather than incapacitation 99% of the time.

• Exploits the Mirror Dimension's physics to successfully ambush and web incap Doctor Strange (this is also a great example of MCU Peter just being a better strategist)

Yeah, this is the scene Masked thinks of when comparing "on-the-fly" strategizing.
As a bonus, it's a really cool visual.
(Kind of sad that Strange jobbed here, but someone had to do it)

 

[Lonkitt]

Oh, Masked forgot to comment.
Masked agrees with both DavidTPPM and Lonkitt.
However, they will note that if both are blood-lusted, then doesn't Mr. Spidey MCU just activate Instant Kill mode?
Masked isn't sure of its effectiveness, but having the suit analyze lethal methods of attack sounds very useful.
(Can someone remove "Instant Kill Mode is a feature on the Tech Suit and the Iron Spider which gives Spider-Man's webs and Spider-Legs the ability to instantly kill anything they touch." from his page, please? Or does that need a CRT?)

Masked will vote for Mr. Spidey MCU FRA.
Rami has a chance due to higher base LS, but it's not as likely.

Since we have no idea what Instant Kill does in the Tech Suit, so we can't really take that into consideration. Also, no, I don't think the Instant Kill function for the Spider-Legs actually inflicts instant death, the implication seems to be that it goes for lethal attacks, which given they're giant metal arms, seems reasonable

Not sure why the page says his webs instant kill

But yeah, since none of the arguments here are based around that, we can just ignore it for now

More specifically, how much of Bucky's skill is "overhyped", and how does it compare to other characters in other franchises?

I generally think the MCU overall doesn't have a ton of skill stonks, but I'll save that discussion for a different thread or DMs if anyone's curious. I don't wanna get off topic here

Yeah, this is the scene Masked thinks of when comparing "on-the-fly" strategizing.
As a bonus, it's a really cool visual.

Yeah, it's honestly a really good intelligence feat

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Oh, Masked forgot to comment.
Masked agrees with both DavidTPPM and Lonkitt.
However, they will note that if both are blood-lusted, then doesn't Mr. Spidey MCU just activate Instant Kill mode?
Masked isn't sure of its effectiveness, but having the suit analyze lethal methods of attack sounds very useful.
(Can someone remove "Instant Kill Mode is a feature on the Tech Suit and the Iron Spider which gives Spider-Man's webs and Spider-Legs the ability to instantly kill anything they touch." from his page, please? Or does that need a CRT?)

Masked will vote for Mr. Spidey MCU FRA.
Rami has a chance due to higher base LS, but it's not as likely.

Vote counted

 

[Lonkitt]

Bump

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

I'll vote Tom FRA to reach grace

 

[Lonkitt]

I've added the results to both pages. This can be closed now