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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

XSOULOFCINDERX said:
No, Sonic is not beating a version of Neo who's equal to him and also has the busted ass skills of Cell, especially if that Neo is bloodlusted like what he'd become via being pressed hard enough due to having any of the traits that came with copying Cell.
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Cell's biodata wouldn't really do much, tbh. Sonic's AD literally outscales any zenkai Cell has ever shown and it isn't even close. Sonic could just neg Neo's regen copied from Cell due to what was shown in the Solaris fight. The only other stuff Neo gets are ki techniques that aren't very useful aside from MAYBE the multiform, but even Goku was able to take on Multiformed Cell just fine. Not to mention many of what Neo Metal would get is middling by comparison to what he already has. Cell's biodata is just a huge redundancy tbh.
 
Snek said:
Man I wonder what the next scaling war will be about. Watch it be about Metal Overlord again.

Starfall Super Sonic is my bet. I think Sonic gets more useful powers from Cyber Corruption than Shadow gets from Doom Powers (Shadow gets mostly mobility options that are redundant for a super form).
Also I don't know how powerful the Cyber Corruption is without being stacked on top of a super form so maybe I could argue that the Doom Powers are more definitively a super form tier increase and therefore (Doom Shadow + Super Form) > (Cyber Corruption + Super Form aka Starfall Super Sonic)
But with how much stronger The End is than regular Super Sonic that assumption that the Cyber Corruption isn't a super form tier amp in it's own right seems doubtful so with no clear argument for Shadow to take power Sonic would end up with even stats but the better abilities and arguably skill to win.

Side note: That is all assuming that stacking a Super Form on top of Doom Powers wouldn't make Shadow blow up like removing his Inhibitor Rings would.

Edit: My dumb ass wrote that post but didn't see that the original question specified that the Inhibitor Rings are removed by default. So Shadow blows up I guess lol.
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Doom Shadow DOES have resistance to Cyber Corruption, so the only truly notable thing here is the power amp Cyber gives to Super.

Though a theoretical uninhibited Doom Super Shadow hard since the uninhibited mode is a little unquantifiable. It has one feat and one feat only and it's hard to pin down how much stronger it makes Shadow.
 
If CrossWorlds is canon to Megaman then the regeneration of the Machines could be a good buff for Rush.
 
ZothythoTheNephalem said:
Cell's biodata wouldn't really do much, tbh. Sonic's AD literally outscales any zenkai Cell has ever shown and it isn't even close. Sonic could just neg Neo's regen copied from Cell due to what was shown in the Solaris fight. The only other stuff Neo gets are ki techniques that aren't very useful aside from MAYBE the multiform, but even Goku was able to take on Multiformed Cell just fine. Not to mention many of what Neo Metal would get is middling by comparison to what he already has. Cell's biodata is just a huge redundancy tbh.
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When I said skills I was including his martial arts capabilities which clears anything in Sonic. Nobody, not even Gemerl gets close to Cell Games Goku or Cell in throwing hands.
 
vsbattles.com

Chaos Energy Metal Sonic (1 more vote)

Context Metal Sonic gets powered by the 7 chaos emeralds though without going Super, and the cast are able to damage him, albeit are still inferior individually. The events of Sonic Mania Adventures are only treated as a possibility between whether that was real or Mania's Encore mode. At worst...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Blame Sonic Heroes for unironically giving Metal Overlord a shit ton of feats and implications towards surpassing Super Sonic all within about several minutes between each other.
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Yep, that + Classic Super Sonic being relative to Modern so you can’t even use the excuse of “Sonic is weaker in Heroes due to less experience using the emeralds” or anything like that.

Metal Overlord being 1-C through upscaling Super Sonic is just really funny because it technically means an incomplete Doom Shadow could solo the Time Eater and most of the other god tiers, but Doom Shadow’s scaling is self-contained outside of fighting Mephiles (who is already weaker than base Shadow and who got narratively got kinda stomped anyway) so it’s not like Shadow being that strong breaks the scaling chain or anything. It’s just funny is all.

Just gonna ignore how the current profiles don’t have Doom Shadow scale to Metal Overlord for some reason

JED said:
You should be lucky you missed The Metal Overlord scaling war last year. It went on for months on end of people debating if he should scale to the Tier 1 stuff.
Unfortunately that side won.
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I remember being there for that (unless you’re talking about a second scaling war on this thread that I missed lol)
 
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MysticMania said:
He's also holding that shield up with his hand though, so I still feel this is tied to AP.
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Ehhh... I can see why you say that, but the Shadow Gens barrier has a very decent gap between the barrier and Mephiles.

It seems like raising his hand is merely the gesture to activate it.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
When I said skills I was including his martial arts capabilities which clears anything in Sonic. Nobody, not even Gemerl gets close to Cell Games Goku or Cell in throwing hands.
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Yeah, no. Both Sonic and Goku have the same combat intelligence and Sonic's AD also works for skill as well, which would clear any skill gap. Not to mention instances of Sonic learning certain martial arts basically immediately or within a very short time with other people scaling to Sonic.
 
If I had a nickel for every time Sonic skillstomped people who should be equal (or even superior) to him, I would have 3 or 4 nickels. It's not a lot... but it's strange that it happened this many times.
 
ChaoticSapphire said:
If I had a nickel for every time Sonic skillstomped people who should be equal (or even superior) to him, I would have 3 or 4 nickels. It's not a lot... but it's strange that it happened this many times.
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When it happens more than twice, it starts to become a pattern. Even more insane that his rivals are always comparable to him.
 
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ZothythoTheNephalem said:
Doom Shadow DOES have resistance to Cyber Corruption, so the only truly notable thing here is the power amp Cyber gives to Super.

Though a theoretical uninhibited Doom Super Shadow hard since the uninhibited mode is a little unquantifiable. It has one feat and one feat only and it's hard to pin down how much stronger it makes Shadow.
Click to expand...
He can't do that tho, he would explode
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
When I said skills I was including his martial arts capabilities which clears anything in Sonic. Nobody, not even Gemerl gets close to Cell Games Goku or Cell in throwing hands.
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I mean... what does he have that is SO above the likes of Emerl, as an example? Sonic's adaptability and skill growth in battle is also quite big
 
ChaoticSapphire said:
And the funny thing is that probably none of them will ever surpass him. Big Blue has a ****ton of experience (over 227,000 wins) and is pretty much the embodiment of "Skill Growth" itself.
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I never said they'll ever surpass him. Being comparable or equal to him is fine enough. They don't really NEED to surpass him. Being able to 50-50 is way more than what MOST people can do.
 
I've seen the Emerl skill downplay going on as a result of Cell vs Metal and I don't buy it (I still love you BenShapiro, you are my guy).

Even his less impressive showings have him being able to access a Virtual Reality where he can fight perfect copies of everybody in Battle after "recording" (observing) them once, can learn their moves in this training without being present (basically his own equivalent of Image Training, arguably better). He's even stated to have a "built-in battle AI" that activates in high-stress combat.

Besides, gameplay obviously can't show intricate hand-to-hand combat like this. Notice how fast Emerl is picking up Shadow's moves, such as performing a Spin Dash right after Shadow does it despite Emerl never seeing it before. There's not even a second of hesitation.

(Also, while I know this is a quantity vs quality thing, Emerl causing a Tails-level supercomputer to literally crash from the sheer volume of combat data is something no Dragon Ball character short of Beerus and Whis can feasibly even do).
 
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ShakeResounding said:
I've seen the Emerl skill downplay going on as a result of Cell vs Metal and I don't buy it (I still love you BenShapiro, you are my guy).

Even his less impressive showings have him being able to access a Virtual Reality where he can fight perfect copies of everybody in Battle after "recording" (observing) them once, can learn their moves in this training without being present (basically his own equivalent of Image Training, arguably better). He's even stated to have a "built-in battle AI" that activates in high-stress combat.

Besides, gameplay obviously can't show intricate hand-to-hand combat like this. Notice how fast Emerl is picking up Shadow's moves, such as performing a Spin Dash right after Shadow does it despite Emerl never seeing it before. There's not even a second of hesitation.

(Also, while I know this is a quantity vs quality thing, Emerl causing a Tails-level supercomputer to literally crash from the sheer volume of combat data is something no Dragon Ball character short of Beerus and Whis can feasibly even do).
Click to expand...
Tired of people sleeping on the Sonic verse's combat expertise.
 
Well, in fairness, several characters do appear like amateur fighters at a surface level (or actually just are, such as Charmy and Cream). So I don't blame people for not grasping the true level of skill in the verse at a glance.

However, the more prominent characters usually do have statements and/or feats to back up some amazing skill (Knuckles being a master martial artist, Shadow and Emerl being programmed with different levels of combat, Metal Sonic constantly having his combat data on Sonic improved, and Sonic... the combat intelligence on his page says it all).

That reminds me, it would be AWESOME to see Shadow in the Batcave in DC x Sonic Part 2!
 
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ShakeResounding said:
I've seen the Emerl skill downplay going on as a result of Cell vs Metal and I don't buy it (I still love you BenShapiro, you are my guy).

Even his less impressive showings have him being able to access a Virtual Reality where he can fight perfect copies of everybody in Battle after "recording" (observing) them once, can learn their moves in this training without being present (basically his own equivalent of Image Training, arguably better). He's even stated to have a "built-in battle AI" that activates in high-stress combat.

Besides, gameplay obviously can't show intricate hand-to-hand combat like this. Notice how fast Emerl is picking up Shadow's moves, such as performing a Spin Dash right after Shadow does it despite Emerl never seeing it before. There's not even a second of hesitation.

(Also, while I know this is a quantity vs quality thing, Emerl causing a Tails-level supercomputer to literally crash from the sheer volume of combat data is something no Dragon Ball character short of Beerus and Whis can feasibly even do).
Click to expand...
That Wixer profile has everything?

Speaking of seamless combat, Emerl was moving like that against Shadow with ONE Emerald... what was Sonic facing in that last battle against the Gizoid with all abilities of the playable with an endless combination of different styles plus breaking his limits
 
TheStinkeer said:
It also doesn't help that for a while, the main source of combat in the Sonic verse was spindash/homing attack/jump spam. Smash Bros didn't help either because half of his moveset there is just, ball.
Click to expand...
Smash + SEGA having Sonic (and rarely Shadow) be the only relevant fighter for over a decade genuinely, like, set the franchise back 60 years it feels like
 
ZothythoTheNephalem said:
I never said they'll ever surpass him. Being comparable or equal to him is fine enough. They don't really NEED to surpass him. Being able to 50-50 is way more than what MOST people can do.
Click to expand...
Don't get me wrong 😅. I'm actually fine with some instances of his rivals getting the upper hand against him. I'm sure Sonic would quite be happy that he can finally have some real fun and is pushed to surpass his limits. I see him as being secretly a battle maniac, just a chill one most of the times.

What got me surprised, when I first found about it, was how you could make a deal with the devil and/or use technology beyond human comprehension and... the best you could get was a stalemate with Blue.

Even Neo with only Sonic's Bio-Data would probably still have a hard time. Add Knux and Shadow's data and... it becomes a stomp. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground.
 
It was fun! I like having different artists draw different levels, and it's cool seeing the gameplay stuff implemented sincerely if that makes sense. When the TSR comic did it, it felt like an advertisement to me in a way ( which it was, ofc ). I know the CrossWorlds comic is the same thing, but it was done in some way that lands better for me. It feels natural.
I do like Jet and Shadow basically bouncing off each other as Sonic literally tries inserting himself into it. I like the various dynamics in the comic like in the game itself, but I do kind of wish the Rogues weren't characterized as much as comedic relief ( that's what it feels like for me, at least ).
 
Remus1998 said:
That Wixer profile has everything?

Speaking of seamless combat, Emerl was moving like that against Shadow with ONE Emerald... what was Sonic facing in that last battle against the Gizoid with all abilities of the playable with an endless combination of different styles plus breaking his limits
Click to expand...
6th dimensional martial arts which Sonic then used against Solaris
 
TheStinkeer said:
Remembered this and went back to Meteor Base zone out of curiosity, and unless I'm blind, I don't recall seeing Earth on it, like, at all. Even when the camera pans up and down. There's something that looks like the sun at the first act but that's about it. Possible Tornado speed feat?
Click to expand...
ok i'm blind there's actually something that might supposed to be the Earth at the very end of Meteor Base Zone Act 2, my big question is if the Egg Destroyer is actually looking directly at it cause it somewhat looks like it's facing away from it a little bit
Image

Image
 
ChaoticSapphire said:
[Snip].
Click to expand...
Delete/remove this part of the post, please. This sandbox is supposed to be a closely-guarded secret, as people steal our scans and use them for their own goals without crediting who they got it from (which has happened to the extent that powerscaling Brazilian Sonictubers use screenshots of stuff lolol) When it's from a page we have published is a different story, but unpublished pages give people the opportunity to claim our stuff as their own.

If you have questions about it, please do so in a DM. I'll be happy to answer any and all questions.

(I swear I'm not trying to gatekeep or be a buzzkill guys, it will be uploaded for all of you to freely see eventually.)
 
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ShakeResounding said:
Delete/remove this part of the post, please. This sandbox is supposed to be a closely-guarded secret, as people steal our scans and use them for their own goals without crediting who they got it from (which has happened to the extent that powerscaling Brazilian Sonictubers use screenshots of stuff lolol) When it's from a page we have published is a different story, but unpublished pages give people the opportunity to claim our stuff as their own.

If you have questions about it, please do so in a DM. I'll be happy to answer any and all questions.

(I swear I'm not trying to gatekeep or be a buzzkill guys, it will be uploaded for all of you to freely see eventually.)
Click to expand...
Sorry :eek:.
Just deleted it.
 
TheStinkeer said:
ok i'm blind there's actually something that might supposed to be the Earth at the very end of Meteor Base Zone Act 2, my big question is if the Egg Destroyer is actually looking directly at it cause it somewhat looks like it's facing away from it a little bit
Image

Image
Click to expand...
this website kinda sucks ass for uploading images. o_O

Agree though, this and the mother wisp vs super sonic speed calc one have similar issues for foundational assumptions for interstellar and above distances being crossed even with visual of stellar parallax being shown; the blue orbs in the backgrounds of the respective feats are likely the planet earth for the direction the ship is travelling and the other one behind mother wisp when you kick her ass, its wholly likely that its intended that the sphere in the background of sky park (which evidently should be the moon), and the other scene where you traverse part of meteor base zone has a pretty nigh identical looking spheroid in the background that looks like their moon (albeit more grey, but almost same surface features)



, meaning its probably not outside their solar system. Maybe some outside source material clears this up that its not the same celestial bodies where the starting point is ands its outside their star system, or (Eggman) Nega flew around interstellar space to shake off the hogs pursuit regardless as the visual medium very directly shows and backtrack to earth; but I'm having similar doubts on using those calcs for support.
 
👋
Out of curiosity I want to ask something. Is there a piece of Sonic media that you guys weren't that big a fan of when it first released but have warmed up to over time? For me I played Sonic Superstars again recently and enjoyed myself more on the second run through than I did on the first one to the point where my feelings on it have changed from luke-warm to good.

- The boss fights are still hell in that game though.
 
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