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Comprehensive Review of the Instant Death
- Thread starter Azertyhuuh
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- #402
A truly unfortunate matter.
We have a lower universe that contains an infinite number of parallel universes, different universes, dimensions, infinite space, multi-dimensional space, multiple universes, infinite time and space, and all of this is contained within a higher universe. And the higher universe contains the same thing, and is also contained within a part of an even higher universe, and so on endlessly. And in the end, it is rejected.
The containment of a higher structure for these infinities and the diverse quantity of universes, and above that, we must not forget the context that proves the existence of spatiotemporal continuities that exceed ordinary continuity, which proves that these higher universes have higher dimensions.
Regarding the Abyss, it achieves the required size because there are celestial foundations of infinite size, and its overlap with them proves that the size of the Abyss is at least infinite, or even more. But for some reason I do not know, it is not approved that the Abyss is Low 1-C and the Sea 1C, despite the existence of celestial foundations of infinite size. Even though the supporters here tell you this, you unfortunately ignored them all, even though they all tried to explain it to you. And it was previously approved in a topic that the Abyss is Low 1-C, but because of the infinity argument, it was considered unknown, and this has now been refuted. Yet still, the Abyss did not return to Low 1-C as it was, and the reason is unknown, even though the celestial foundations returned to their infinite size.
It was also mentioned that the higher universes surpass the entire Sea in a clear context, and it is truly laughable that the Sea and the higher universes are considered at the same level.
Similarly, we have another context that proves the existence of worlds that surpass everything we know. It was mentioned by the Absolute God that this is not all that exists, and there are worlds that even the gods cannot perceive. And our inability to perceive them, being outside our perception, does not mean they do not exist, which proves that these unknown worlds surpass everything we have known. And in the end, we have the final set that contains all of this.
You did not answer me regarding the law removal argument, and therefore this topic is still ongoing. I have presented the contradictions and correct explanations, and yet, until now, no one has responded regarding the first thing I spoke about in this topic.
I request any staff member here to respond to all of this, especially regarding the higher universes, and explain how you justify rejecting all of this despite the context that proves the existence of a hierarchical sequence of spatiotemporals that surpass ordinary spatiotemporal continuity. You may.
The Abyss: Low 1-C
The Sea: 1C
The Higher Universes: H1B
The Unknown Worlds: +H1B
The Final Set: +H1B
In case the staff continues to reject the higher universe argument, the classification will be as follows:
The Abyss: Low 1-C
The Sea: 1C (6D)
The Higher Universes: 1C (7D)
The Unknown Worlds: 1C (8D)
The Final Set World: 1C (9D)
And do not forget the law
removal argument and the restoration of the ending.
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- #403
Do not close the topic until all matters are settled. Things are mixed up, so I ask the members who are still commenting to stop and organize all the points that have been agreed upon and those that are still under discussion, and make everything clear. It has truly become chaotic due to the large number of comments.
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He is essentially saying that a R⁴ can overlap with a R³ and is using R³ and R² to demonstrate it.Im not sure about the desmos bit since this is the first time I've heard of the term. So I concede for now. I'll research it and make a thread if I find anything worth discussing
But question; if we put z=0 (which I understand is the 3rd axis), doesn't that mean we're setting the size of the 3rd dimension to zero? Once again I'm not familiar with desmos at all, so...
Technically a 2-D and a 3-D space overlaps in the sense they share the same 2-D space
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sukuna171
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I believe the Final Set World is recognized as being 6-D.
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- #406
This is not what I want; you can review the comment carefully.
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Can you provide other instances in the novel where 'laws' have been mentioned? I want to cross-check the specific Kanji used for Yogiri with other examples of 'law' being used throughout the story. This will help me see if they are described with the same Kanji or not.
sukuna171
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Honestly, just go with what’s recognized by the staff—it’s already 11 pages in with no end in sight.
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Desmos is just a platform that lets you graph functions, curves or anything. It doesn't have anything specialIm not sure about the desmos bit since this is the first time I've heard of the term. So I concede for now. I'll research it and make a thread if I find anything worth discussing
But question; if we put z=0 (which I understand is the 3rd axis), doesn't that mean we're setting the size of the 3rd dimension to zero? Once again I'm not familiar with desmos at all, so...
z=0 is not a 3-D space, but a 2-D one. I'm just putting an easy-to-understand example of how a (N-1)-D space can overlap with a N-D one.
From what you're saying, you seem to be confusing two independent axis overlapping (like "up" and "left". That cannot happen if both axis are independent (if both are part of the same reference system yada yada)) with two spaces with different dimensionality overlapping. The latter can happen and is the most common trope in fiction. Usually, characters from a higher dimension are not disconnected of the lower dimension, but on a realm that encompasses that dimension (or partially that dimension/overlaps with that dimension as this case) + more (the usual 5th dimension that encompasses the multiverse + more)
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- #410
Alright.
This is the kanji used in Yogiri’s context: ルール
And this is the kanji used in Ashtar’s fight against the Demon King: 理
Please note that translation is not the only issue, but also the contradictions. So you can review what I wrote in the thread regarding this matter and understand everything.
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Aren't the Abyss and the Celestial Foundation the same size? The CF seems to vary in size anywhere from a Solar System to a Universe. The "Solar Systen" stuff is quite concrete, given the it is stated that the canopy (which I believe is the kind of border of the CF) covers it at exactly the size of a solar system, with different worlds or other CFs existing beyond it. Making it explicitly clear.
Astral_Trinity439
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He is trying to copy sassiness of his grandpa
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- #414
It is not like that; the celestial foundations differ in size from one foundation to another, and their laws differ as well. The celestial foundations are universes, and this is what the novel itself states, and there are also celestial foundations of infinite size. As for the solar system argument, it has become invalid since the refutation of the infinity argument.
Sweet Dao used the absence of infinity to refute the celestial foundations with the infinite argument in order to say that they are not infinite, and you can verify this yourself here and here and here and here. Therefore, this argument is no longer valid now, so the Abyss overlaps with many celestial foundations, and among these are celestial foundations of infinite size and celestial foundations of universal size.
There are only two celestial foundations that are the size of a solar system, which are Yogiri’s foundation and Paila’s foundation. Other than that, all other celestial foundations are either infinite in size or the size of universes. Sweet Dao used the argument of the absence of infinity to refute the celestial foundations, and this has now become invalid. Therefore, the Abyss will return to Low 1-C as it was before, and the Sea will be 1C.
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What do you mean by "from solar system"? Since the solar system CF is considered "huge" within the verse. So yeah, most would be considered smaller.
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Thats furigana, i thimk. But nvm.
I checked the raws a bit, specifically this line:
Or this line:
Doesn't really matter. It translates it to:
While it is just a different way of saying “law,” I think this word carries more emphasis than “law” in pure Japanese. It seems closer to something like the order, logic, or reason of the world, something closer to framework and authority of the world. Still, we would need a orange badges to clarify whether it truly means “law” or can mean something broader than that. That said, regardless of the terminology used, since it is not exactly a law either way, the way it is described in the franchise should be given more weight when determining its relevance than the term itself which may vary with different interpretations.
Astral_Trinity439
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Here homie
Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)
The whole if possible. It was translate by different translator here before he retired. I just not sure whether the reasons for his retiring had to do with translation or not. He was demoted for using MTL in his translations So, his translations are no longer valid
Astral_Trinity439
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Also, I checked the raws for V11 to V15 (yeah got access to em now)Here homie
Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)
The whole if possible. It was translate by different translator here before he retired. I just not sure whether the reasons for his retiring had to do with translation or not. He was demoted for using MTL in his translations So, his translations are no longer validvsbattles.com
Apparently The End is never refered to by 法則 (which is the kanji for Law/Rule).
I didn't search the kanji 理 becuase it's too time confusing; it's literaly also used as a part for very common words. Also, I might have missed a mention or two if the epub messed up the katakana/kanji embedding, but I don't think so.
Andddd unconventional authors always exist. Such as using 高次元 for higher level stuff (lol), so I wouldn't say this necessarily means the End is logic/reason of the world based off the kanji alone
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Yeah, welp, Logic it is then.Here homie
Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)
The whole if possible. It was translate by different translator here before he retired. I just not sure whether the reasons for his retiring had to do with translation or not. He was demoted for using MTL in his translations So, his translations are no longer valid
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sukuna171
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Yeah, no, the larger CFs are universal in size because they’re bigger than Alice in another kingdom, and they’re also called universes.
She immediately decided to flee. Her invincibility within Another
Kingdom had been called into question. Naturally, she wouldn’t be able to
stubbornly stick to that one ability. That was enough for her to give up her
reliance on it. So Alice teleported to the infinite hallway that made up the
entrance of her realm. The hallway was lined with countless doors and
stretched on forever. As an entrance that temporarily held her visitors, no
matter which door one went through, it would lead into her realm.
Kingdom had been called into question. Naturally, she wouldn’t be able to
stubbornly stick to that one ability. That was enough for her to give up her
reliance on it. So Alice teleported to the infinite hallway that made up the
entrance of her realm. The hallway was lined with countless doors and
stretched on forever. As an entrance that temporarily held her visitors, no
matter which door one went through, it would lead into her realm.
He had ordered the Omega Blade to teleport him to the Sage Alice, but
there was no sign of her. He was in a long, dark hallway. Lamps hanging
from the low ceiling cast a dim light around him. The walls were lined with
countless doors. It was too dark to see far, giving the impression that the
hallway continued forever, with an infinite number of doors.
“This is where Alice is,” Navi explained.
“I know that, but can’t you teleport me beside her?” Technically, he
hadn’t ordered the sword to do that, but he couldn’t help but be unsatisfied
with the result.
“This is a pocket dimension that rejects teleportation. You have
permission to come this far, but you can’t teleport any farther.”
“So what, am I supposed to check all of these doors one by one?”
“If that is too much trouble, you could destroy the dimension altogether. It
is little more than a transient bubble on the surface of the world, after all.
Your power is overwhelmingly greater, so the Sages have no choice but to
scurry around in the dark, hiding.”
“If I go inside, will I still be able to use the Omega Blade?”
“Yes. This dimension is still built on the framework of the greater world.
It will only provide some moderate advantages to the owner.”
there was no sign of her. He was in a long, dark hallway. Lamps hanging
from the low ceiling cast a dim light around him. The walls were lined with
countless doors. It was too dark to see far, giving the impression that the
hallway continued forever, with an infinite number of doors.
“This is where Alice is,” Navi explained.
“I know that, but can’t you teleport me beside her?” Technically, he
hadn’t ordered the sword to do that, but he couldn’t help but be unsatisfied
with the result.
“This is a pocket dimension that rejects teleportation. You have
permission to come this far, but you can’t teleport any farther.”
“So what, am I supposed to check all of these doors one by one?”
“If that is too much trouble, you could destroy the dimension altogether. It
is little more than a transient bubble on the surface of the world, after all.
Your power is overwhelmingly greater, so the Sages have no choice but to
scurry around in the dark, hiding.”
“If I go inside, will I still be able to use the Omega Blade?”
“Yes. This dimension is still built on the framework of the greater world.
It will only provide some moderate advantages to the owner.”
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Yeah i get it but reading the surrounding context around 理 gave me feeling like it is more than just law (something completely absolute and immutable) and given this kanji seems to be used for something broader thhan law (the same way logic is more broader thqn law), i think logic seems to make more sense here than law.
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I think you misunderstood. I am not saying that is the limit for how large they can get. I am saying that the solar system one was considered huge, meaning that it's common for CF to be smaller than that, thus saying solar system, as the smallest size is false.
sukuna171
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Yeah, my mistake—I misunderstood what you meant.
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No worries, my English is flawed, so I am glad you at least pointed it out, so I could clear it up.
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Oh, yeah, it doesn't really matter either way, Solar size or smaller than universal, since i think this thread solely relies on the premise that Abyss is of Universal in size. Any thing smaller defeats the basis, but i yeah.
He also used <4-B arguement which is pretty clear. Only thing you can argue against it is the consistency of it being called infinite, i think.
Does the CF being 4-B size or smaller comes from the Instant Death novel directly or some other franchise canon to it?
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- #427
Have you reviewed what I said about this matter? It is not about translation, and as I told you, review what I wrote to understand everything. The kanji used refers to logic and reason in the context of the Demon King vs. Ashtar, and since the word that came after this kanji is “world,” this means that the correct term in this context is “logic” (the logic of the world).
As for Yogiri’s context, the Absolute God mentions that it is one of the laws that govern the creation of the final set, and after that, he explicitly states that it is the end, after saying it is one of the laws that govern the final set. I have already explained its meaning, and then he said it is the end.
If you want to understand what the Absolute God meant by “one of the laws that govern the creation of the set,” you need to review the thread.
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Here are the arguments Dao made some time back.
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Do I understand from your words that you deny the celestial foundations being infinite in size? That’s ridiculous—Sweet Dao used the argument of the non-existence of infinity to refute them, and that was the only way to refute them, while you are directly denying them!! I don’t even know what to say.
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Can you stop lying? The CF arguments had nothing to do with infinity....
sukuna171
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The statement I posted is from Volume 9 of Instant Death, I believe, chapter 14.
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As everyone can see here, Sweet Dao used the argument that infinity does not exist in order to refute the celestial foundations of infinite size that Elizhaa presented here. And this is Sweet Dao’s response to it here, stating that the concept of infinity does not exist—and this has now been refuted. Also, as explained in the same comment by Elizhaa here, you can understand that the celestial foundations differ in their laws and that each has its own rules, so it is not strange to find a celestial foundation of a certain size with different laws.
I request the presence of more staff members because I am starting to feel bias against me, and this is something I cannot tolerate.
I request the presence of more staff members because I am starting to feel bias against me, and this is something I cannot tolerate.
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Ok cool H1B is out of the picture
Am fine with 1C, tho I need a summary on wtf happend with the rest
Am fine with 1C, tho I need a summary on wtf happend with the rest
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can you stop accusing staff? The series does not present any hyperversal tiers, that’s all
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Why are you using arguments against a single world as general arguments against CF's and ignoring the entire OP section regarding it? Do you not see the issue with that?
We are not starting this again....
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It is pretty much about the translation too if your bringing jisho right at the start of the arguement. I am having a hard time understanding what exactly you want to say in the OP given the weird wording but if i am getting it right, you are saying that Yogiri is not a law or logic but one that function as such as due to protecting the state of Yogiri in the Ultimate Ensemble?
Well regardless what you meant i don't think it changes what i said which is to focus on description or functionality rather than terminology used. Ultimate God doesn't seems to completely know Yogiri anyways so even if he said how much he understands "it", that is not everything of it. So he is definitely more than law/logic/rule and the limit/end/scale of UEG. So him being logic/rule/law or not shouldn't hinders whatever you want to add on further with it. But he is definitely more than that. But what exactly he is? It depends on the scans you provide.
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It should be noted that UEG actively limits his knowledge and doesn't actually seek to learn most things, and such, so that shouldn't be the focus of any arguments.
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There should be a CRT defining canon because almost everything about true form yogiri comes from other places
Edit: my bad
Zanesucksatlife
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I mean , we do have This
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- #440
The arguments are clear—even if there is only one celestial foundation of infinite size, that is enough to qualify the Abyss as Low 1-C. Also, are you ignoring that each celestial foundation has its own laws? How can you apply the properties of one celestial foundation to another as evidence? This is like saying that your height is 180 cm, which would mean that everyone must have the same height, even though you know that each person’s height differs from another. So simply, I do not agree with you or with everything you have stated.
Since celestial foundations differ in their laws, and each one has its own rules and characteristics, this means that relying on one foundation to prove another is an invalid argument—especially when there is already a celestial foundation of infinite size, and especially since the context states that celestial foundations are universes. Therefore, relying on one foundation to refute another is invalid, unfortunately. And since we have the context of universes and infinity, even if a foundation like Yogiri’s and Paila’s appears, which are the size of a solar system, it cannot be used as evidence for any other celestial foundation.
I have said what I had to say, and if you are not convinced, then it is better not to reply.
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