Comprehensive Review of the Instant Death

[Astral_Trinity439]

Lmaoo
All that text wall trying to dodge the point and say the otl says "higher dimensional beings"

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Just wow man...

Other than this

I've started reading ID on a bing, at least the important bits of it, and I must say I found quite a lot of context that goes against this whole "higher dimensional universes" stuff

I'm a bit busy rn so I'll hop on later and make a detailed post about it

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yes, the gap is truly infinite. Come, come, now everything is fine. Yes, there is an infinite, limitless gap, and everything exists. See for yourself ↓

You're confusing all infinites as being the same. There's a difference between a countable infinite and an uncountable infinity. We're talking about an infinite set composed of all types of infinites put together. What you gave is still not enough for a coordinate dimensional jump, especially not an infinite series of one.

 

[Hecky2222]

You're confusing all infinites as being the same. There's a difference between a countable infinite and an uncountable infinity. We're talking about an infinite set composed of all types of infinites put together. What you gave is still not enough for a coordinate dimensional jump, especially not an infinite series of one.

Btw since you are there, can we know where higher universes +1D(1-C generally) comes from?

Cuz when I asked if that can be argument for at least Tier 1 you said no.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Btw since you are there, can we know where higher universes +1D(1-C generally) comes from?

Cuz when I asked if that can be argument for at least Tier 1 you said no.

The Abyss has 4 Spatial Axis.

The Sea contains it in same way, meaning its also 4-Dimensional and has a time axis. After that the Ultimate Ensemble contains a transinfinite number of these spaces, so it's 5D+1 or 6D in totality.

 

[Cipher72]

Ultimate Ensemble contains a transinfinite number of these spaces

What's the statement for that if you don't mind ? Anyone else can send it asw I couldn't find it in the OP

 

[Azertyhuuh]

You're confusing all infinites as being the same. There's a difference between a countable infinite and an uncountable infinity. We're talking about an infinite set composed of all types of infinites put together. What you gave is still not enough for a coordinate dimensional jump, especially not an infinite series of one.

Okay, it was mentioned that a being from a higher universe views the lower universe as merely pages in a book, simply because of the difference in dimensions. And isn’t that enough already? It was also mentioned that there are space-times that surpass the ordinary continuity of spacetime, to the extent that even UEG, who has transcended the limits of spacetime, could not even perceive these space-times.

As far as she could feel, there was no doubt that this goddess was involved in the sealing. However, she couldn't remember what had happened in the past, or what kind of relationship she had with this goddess.

UEG was unprincipled and used her power to push through everything, but she could not lie to herself. In other words, she couldn't claim to have avenged this goddess without clear evidence.

Since she transcended time and space, she could at least confirm it, but she couldn't do that either. Since she had no memory of the time and space where something had supposedly happened, the existence of that time and space was too vague for the UEG to interfere with.

"What a fluffy, lazy conversation!"

 

[Qawsedf234]

What's the statement for that if you don't mind ? Anyone else can send it asw I couldn't find it in the OP

Infinite Universes containing infinite universes that goes on forever is an Aleph-1 number of universes

Okay, it was mentioned that a being from a higher universe views the lower universe as merely pages in a book, simply because of the difference in dimensions. And isn’t that enough already

It can mean something, but this quote is utterly devoid of context so I'm not sure how relevant it is.

who has transcended the limits of spacetime, could not even perceive these space-times.

Your quote doesn't say that:

Since she had no memory of the time and space where something had supposedly happened, the existence of that time and space was too vague for the UEG to interfere with.

This is indicating that the limit is juat her lack of memory, not the thing being unperceiveable.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

What's the statement for that if you don't mind ? Anyone else can send it asw I couldn't find it in the OP

The ultimate set contains infinite parallel worlds and an uncountable number of celestial foundations, some of which are infinite and others of cosmic scale, each differing in their laws. There is the infinite sea that contains the abyss, and beyond all of this, there is a space that surpasses everything mentioned—these are the higher universes. There is an infinite number of them, and each higher universe is infinite, with an infinite gap between each one, and there is an infinite number of such gaps.
There are also other worlds that cannot even be perceived by the gods. The Absolute God mentioned that there are other worlds, but the gods cannot perceive them, and He said that our universe cannot perceive them either; this does not negate their existence. After that, it was mentioned that the ultimate set contains all possible worlds—in short, everything I mentioned plus the worlds that even the gods cannot perceive. This means it surpasses everything that can be perceived and everything I mentioned.
The world of the ultimate set is the Low 1-A world. If there were truly justice, it is a world capable of containing all possible worlds.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Infinite Universes containing infinite universes that goes on forever is an Aleph-1 number of universes


It can mean something, but this quote is utterly devoid of context so I'm not sure how relevant it is.

Your quote doesn't say that:

This is indicating that the limit is juat her lack of memory, not the thing being unperceiveable.

UEG transcends the limits of spacetime, and yet there are space-times that surpass the ordinary continuity of spacetime, where even UEG cannot intervene. Read the last part carefully: even she, who transcends the limits of spacetime, cannot intervene in them.
And this is also what was said @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless ↓

Yes, the context clearly states that a being from a higher universe views the lower universe and everything within it as merely pages in a book, simply because of the difference in dimensions, and this is explicitly written—no one can deny it.

 

[Cipher72]

Infinite Universes containing infinite universes that goes on forever is an Aleph-1 number of universes

Are you referring to this scan ?
I can't seem to find the word infinity but rather numerous.

Gyazo

gyazo.com

Or is it another scan. Thx

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Are you referring to this scan ?
I can't seem to find the word infinity but rather numerous.

Gyazo

gyazo.com

Or is it another scan. Thx

Not here.

 

[Cipher72]

Not here.

Care to send a scan that proves Aleph-1 universes ?

 

[Mizuki67]

I know it sounds annoying but can yall summarise the argument again otherwise this would be more than 10 pages long

 

[Cipher72]

I know it sounds annoyimg but can yall summarise the argument again otherwise this would be more than 10 pages long

It's a matter of getting the proper scans that validates the 1-C rating and if somehow Azerty can prove that SweetDao took things out of context and lied about the OTL, most of the argumentation are mostly done with. Azerty & Qwas are actively discussing 1-B, Rein has opposed 1-B, I don't believe UMR has said anything and as far as ik Elizhaa is neutral.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

It's a matter of getting the proper scans that validates the 1-C rating and if somehow Azerty can prove that SweetDao took things out of context and lied about the OTL, most of the argumentation are mostly done with. Azerty & Qwas are actively discussing 1-B, Rein has opposed 1-B, I don't believe UMR has said anything and as far as ik Elizhaa is neutral.

You cannot say that Sweet Dao lied; rather, he committed a fallacy. You cannot know whether he lied or did it unintentionally, but the important thing is that it is a fallacy regardless of his intentions.

24. Half - truth

This is when someone presents a piece of evidence, but only presents some of it, ignoring critical factors that would cast the evidence in a whole different light, and would not necessarily support the person's conclusion.

You cannot accuse anyone without evidence; this is just a fallacy, and that’s all there is to it.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Okay, it was mentioned that a being from a higher universe views the lower universe as merely pages in a book, simply because of the difference in dimensions.

The "views universes as merely pages in a book" doesnt exist in the raws.

 

[Cipher72]

The "views universes as merely pages in a book" doesnt exist in the raws.

What's your opinion on 1-C and 1-B ?

 

[sukuna171]

As a Yogiri tier 1 simp, I have to disagree with high 1-B.

 

[Cipher72]

You cannot say that Sweet Dao lied; rather, he committed a fallacy. You cannot know whether he lied or did it unintentionally, but the important thing is that it is a fallacy regardless of his intentions.

You cannot accuse anyone without evidence; this is just a fallacy, and that’s all there is to it.

I understand that there's a language barrier so I am going to be as blunt with you as possible, I couldn't care less about what fallacies Dao may or may not have committed. I don't care that's not what I am talking about. You said and I am quoting

Sweet Dao is the one who translated it that way through machine translation and incorrect contextual interpretations. The official translation clearly says “a higher-dimensional being,”

Where is the link for the OFFICIAL TRANSLATION that Mentions “a higher-dimensional being,” Where is the proof that Sweet Dao used MTL?
Other quotes from you;

The correct and official translation says “a higher-dimensional being,” and machine translation will also say “a higher-dimensional being.”

Yes, I understand this well, but the official translation says “you are a higher-dimensional being.”

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Officially, Sweet Dao’s argument has been refuted.

We all know that the Abyss here is a higher dimension, and we all know that the king who rules the Abyss and has absolute authority over it is a higher-dimensional being. Right after this context, the narration mentions that, because he obtained this immense power, and that if he possesses such power—this extraordinary power… it means everything has become clear.

Now, just because the context talks about his immense power, his unique power, and keeps referring to his strength, do you then consider that the Abyss and the king are not higher-dimensional? Just because it later talks about his overwhelming power and abilities? Everything is clear now.

Even in the context of UEG, when she said that he is a higher-dimensional being and then spoke about his power, this is because he is a higher-dimensional being—exactly like what happened with the king of the Abyss. Even though what distinguishes him is that he is a higher-dimensional being, it is still mentioned that because of this, he has such and such power. So everything is clear now.

This means the context is no longer contradictory. Moreover, in UEG’s context, she originally meant his arrival to the higher universe, which is why she was surprised and said that he is a higher-dimensional being and that she did not expect him to reach this level. She did not expect him to reach the higher universes because reaching them requires a higher-dimensional being.

Alright, now the argument has been refuted. The author refers to a higher-dimensional being as simply powerful—there is no difference. Because of this, he is powerful, and his strength is immense for that reason alone. In other words, his power is mentioned because he is a higher-dimensional being.

And isn’t it stated in the classification system, in the FAQ section, that a higher-dimensional being is infinitely stronger than a lower-dimensional one? So what is the issue with power then?
Anyway, I’ve said what I had to say. It all comes down to power—power is everything. Since he is a higher-dimensional being, of course he would be stronger, and overwhelmingly so.

Regarding attacks, as was demonstrated earlier, it was possible to ignore any defense and completely destroy the interior.
As for ordinary humans, they cannot even perceive this space, and there is no means to counter it. Before this ability, there can be no enemies at all.
Having obtained such immense power, it is inevitable that ordinary humans would feel like mere insects.
If one possesses such power, no one could deny them the title of god, let alone king. The difference between them and ordinary humans is far too great.
However, this power is not unique.
There are five others capable of the same thing, and each of them claims the title of king.

Come, @Reiner04 , come. @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless

 

[MrTayman616]

Come, @Reiner04 , come. @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Reiner dosnt agree H1B so that’s one down ig

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Anyways. I'm finally free. So here's the context that I think should be added when evaluating the ratings. Do note that I'm only including what I came across. I didn't fully read the novel nor have the time to, so if there's some more context feel free to add so. I also don't have access to the Japanese raws, so if the jp has something differently, please point it out!


Abyss

“This man...can operate in a different dimension from us. Through that dimension, the heart in his hand is still connected to the inside of my body. Haha. That doesn’t help me relax, though. So, he suddenly appeared in this room because he can travel through that dimension as well.”

“As expected, that makes no sense whatsoever, but he’s just showing off his power, right?”

The heart in the man’s hand continued to beat. Although the blood vessels leading from it appeared to have been severed, no blood spilled out. They were still connected to Shiraishi’s body somehow.

“This is why they call themselves kings. They can travel through alternate dimensions to appear anywhere and kill their enemies by doing things like grabbing their hearts directly. They can also avoid any kind of attack in the same way. As such, no one can stand against them. Thus, kings.”

“Hm. Allow me to correct one misunderstanding. I cannot appear anywhere. I can only operate through places where this dimension and that one overlap. Of course, since your people have no way of telling where such places are, the fact that you are helpless against me is no different.” This man, calling himself a king, seemed to be the personification of self-centeredness. It appeared he couldn’t be satisfied without making everyone else aware of how incredible he was.

It was, in a literal sense, a world in a different dimension. Call it the Astral Plane, the Spirit World, or the Abyss. It went by any number of names, but to put it into simple terms, it was a world where length, width, and height were supplemented with an additional fourth dimension.

The man could move freely between that dimension and three-dimensional space. It was an incredibly powerful ability. By passing through that dimension, he could go anywhere he wished and avoid any attack. As he had demonstrated, he could even use it to bypass any sort of defense and destroy an opponent from within. On top of that, ordinary humans couldn’t perceive this dimension, making it impossible for them to fight back.

There was no one who could stand against such an ability. It wasn’t hard to believe that someone with that level of power would come to view the rest of humanity as little more than insects. Rather than “king,” it would be hard to argue with them taking the title of “god.” He was just too different from ordinary humans.

But he wasn’t the only one who held such a power. There were four others who could use it too. They had all called themselves kings. Basking in their gifts, indulging every violent and wicked impulse imaginable, the only restraint they showed was in not fighting amongst themselves. They could see that if they fought, they would only achieve mutual destruction, so they divided the world into five territories, and each had ultimate freedom within their own domain. That’s how things had been for a long time. But the man wasn’t satisfied with that, so when he heard about the “angels” appearing, he went in search of them in hopes of gaining more power. Within this space, things mixed together to create a truly chaotic vision.

Multiple locations overlapped, indicating where it was possible for him to interact with three-dimensional space. He searched for the lowest level of the research facility, a feat possible with his senses attuned to this additional dimension. It didn’t take much time to find it. Warping space, he approached the appropriate coordinates by drawing his desired destination closer to himself. He found a young boy there, conversing with a woman.

“Ridiculous. What about that child makes him ‘ＡΩ’?”

The man had no interest in such a worthless being. That said, he couldn’t ignore him, either. He stretched out a hand towards the boy. By reaching into the child’s brain and scrambling it, it would all be over. But then their eyes met. The boy was looking at him. That was impossible. There was no way he could see this dimension. No matter where he looked, from within three-dimensional space, it was impossible to see someone in the Abyss. And yet he could tell that the boy was watching him.

“Impossible. Is he also someone who can reach this place?!”

The moment he wondered that, eyes appeared before him. Within this other dimension the man occupied, countless eyes suddenly opened up all around him, as if they had been waiting there closed the entire time. The man instinctively understood that they belonged to the boy, allowing him to see even in this space. And then he suddenly understood. He had only been letting them run free. This world, this alternate dimension, was all a part of that young boy. If he wished it, they would lose their freedom there. Thanks to the power he held, the man could recognize that in an instant.

“Impossible! Such a power makes no sense!”

But no matter how he raged, the world would not bend. In this world where he should have been able to swim around freely, he had been frozen solid. He couldn’t so much as move a finger now.

“No...what do you plan on doing with me?!”

Despite the man’s ragged shout, the boy didn’t seem interested in doing anything at all. He wasn’t paying any attention to him anymore. He was just going to leave him there. The man would be trapped, able to do nothing but watch the world pass him by as he slowly starved to death.

As much as this reeks of "it's the 4th Dimension!", there are a few points of concern:

• This 4th Dimension overlaps with 3-dimensional space
• Rather than being called a higher dimension, it's called an "alternate dimension" instead

And afaik, orthogonal axes do NOT overlap. Take this with X and Y axes in a plane, they only meet at one single point, and that is the origin point 0,0. Other than that, they don't and can't overlap anywhere. Otherwise they won't be orthogonal to begin with....

So with this reason, I disagree with Low 1-C or 5D entirely. This seems more like it's just an alternate dimension above 3D space, and when these two separate space times connect at some point, the overlap occurs...

Higher Universes

At some point, they had tacitly agreed it would be a battle using celestial bodies as weapons. The two continued to grow ever more massive, using galaxies, clusters, and superclusters against each other. No intelligent life in the universe would be able to stand it. Two unbelievably massive beings had suddenly appeared and were bringing the cosmos to ruin.

“Hmm. This will get us nowhere,” the UEG suddenly said. After having wreaked such havoc in this universe, Touichirou couldn’t help but feel exasperated, though he could hardly complain, as he’d been just as active a participant in the destruction. “Very well, let us move on to the next stage of our test!”

Light burst from the UEG’s body. In an instant, the universe around them was incinerated. The attack struck in literally every direction possible, leaving no room to run or hide. It would be pointless for Touichirou to do the same thing. It was an attack that could destroy an entire universe. There would be no canceling it out, only overpowering it. He would have to defend against it, but that wouldn’t be so difficult. He just needed to go to another universe. He fled to a parallel world, one where a disaster like the UEG had never appeared.

“I thought this place had nothing to do with her, but it’s already a mess...”
“That is because I was never here. I would strike down anyone who attempted to sow such chaos in my own world.”

“Dammit!”

The UEG unleashed light again. Touichirou fled to yet another parallel world, but her light was already there. He tried to flee again as the attack scorched him, but the UEG was always one step ahead. In the end, his only option was to take the attack head on.

“Hmm. Though I was holding back, I am impressed you survived.”

“Now it’s my turn!” He had been unmotivated before, but he was starting to
feel the urge to fight back. Touichirou headed to a universe governed by entirely different laws and immediately erased the one he had just come from along with all the parallel universes connected to it.

“Honestly...I fail to understand what you are attempting to do in destroying all the parallel universes like that.” The UEG appeared behind him, calm and composed.

“I don’t want to hear that from you.”

She had followed him from an entirely different world first, so it was no surprise she could follow him here as well. Now what would follow would be even greater tragedy. They would both leap between universes, trying to predict their opponent’s moves and erase their destination before they made it there. They would attempt to jump out of the dimensional space occupied by their opponent and destroy it from the outside. As they did, their opponent would jump to an even higher level universe and attempt the same thing. There should have been no end to the cycle, but suddenly there was. Touichirou’s attack had erased the universe containing the UEG.

“Is it over?” They had erased numerous universes. He was naturally exhausted at this point and was starting to feel fed up with the whole situation.

“Hmm. It was entertaining in a way, but I have grown bored. It is no different from a quarrel between children. I make an invincible barrier, so you fire a beam that can destroy invincible barriers, so I make a barrier that can stop even that. I ended up losing track of what we were doing and made a mistake with my timing.”

How many times had they repeated this cycle? The UEG was standing behind Touichirou once again.

“You... You should have been erased.” He had watched her being erased along with the universe around her, failing to escape in time. And in truth, up until that point, the UEG had ceased to exist.

“Indeed, I was erased, but sorry, that is not enough to kill me. Now, if something like that takes you by surprise, I feel as if I have seen the limits of your abilities. Let us bring an end to this.”

“Someone like you...was locked up?” It was impossible to believe someone
this powerful had been sealed away in one small world in one small universe.

“Well, it was done precisely because I could not be killed.” The UEG approached him from behind. Though they had long since gone past the point of needing physical bodies, they were still in humanoid form. Touichirou spun around and swung his fist. She caught his punch and crushed his fist in her hand. Her power then flowed into him, restraining him from within. She had taken hold of him, leaving him paralyzed.

“What was the point of all that fighting?” The moment they made physical contact, Touichirou understood the difference in their power. He understood there was no way he could ever have beaten her.

“Ah, yes, I simply wished to do something exciting! So I will praise you. You
are quite impressive for keeping up with me this long.” The UEG slowly wound up and threw a punch of her own. Unable to dodge her small fist, it struck him and blew his head straight off. His body shattered and dissipated. Their fight, which had destroyed numerous universes, ended with a single punch.

The rest bolded line has some mistranslations, and this is what the OP gave in its place:

UEG had appeared behind Toichiro, looking perfectly composed.In the first place, since they had come here from entirely different worlds, it was only natural that they could both move between different universes as a matter of course.From that point on, it was a repeated cycle of further tragedy and carnage.In short, they would move between universes, predict the universe the opponent was moving to, and blow that universe away.They would move outside the multiverse that encompassed the universe where the opponent was located, and attack that universe from there.Then, the opponent would move to an even higher-order universe and launch an attack from there.It was a never-ending cycle, but the end came abruptly.Toichiro's attack annihilated the universe that contained UEG.

The UEG searched her surroundings. The empty blackness really seemed to go on forever. As far as her senses could reach, the darkness continued on, unending. So she tried looking into other dimensions, parallel worlds, or alternate universes, but none of it worked. Only the same void greeted her.

There really was nothing here. Finally realizing it, she started to feel the beginnings of fear. No matter where she went, there was nothing. Beyond that, she couldn’t teleport.

“I-In that case, I will incinerate everything! Time! Space! The universe itself! The higher-level universe that encompasses this one!”

The UEG unleashed her power in full force. But that power, which should have annihilated everything, vanished into the darkness. It hadn’t made the slightest change in her surroundings.

The UEG couldn’t accept the words he was saying. They were incomprehensible to someone like her, who believed herself to be the most powerful being in existence.

“Some of us believe in a theory like this: There are universes contained inside larger universes and so on. Why has that total collection of universes survived? If space and time are infinite, then there is a possibility that eventually an ultimate being would emerge, one that could wipe out all universes on a whim. If the possibility isn’t zero, then given infinite time, it is guaranteed to happen. But it hasn’t. From what we’ve been able to observe, once gods reach a certain threshold of power, they disappear. So there must be someone out there erasing them, right? There must be some sort of limit or criteria being applied.”

“Criteria?”

The UEG had never considered that. She had believed gods were indestructible, eternal beings. She had killed any number of gods, but death was just another state of being for them, one from which they would eventually recover.

“Yeah, some people call that the Scale, others call it the Limiter. Either way, it seems something like that is out there.”

Worlds existed within Celestial Foundations, and these Foundations existed within the “sea.” The sea was enormous, containing countless such Foundations, but it was not hard to imagine the existence of worlds outside of it. There were worlds, the space outside them, and another place beyond all ofbthat. Worlds with different fundamental laws all existed nested within eachbother. That was apparently the structure of the universe. “Apparently,” because it was impossible to observe the entire thing.

That said, there were some who treated this as all that existed, since it comprised the entirety of the territory perceptible to the most intelligent life forms on these worlds. For convenience, the term “Ultimate Ensemble World” referred to this collection of worlds. Many of them followed similar laws, while many more followed entirely different ones. No through line could be established that applied to all of them.

In short, what counted as rare and exceptional in one world was perfectly natural in another, but there were still things that counted as exceptional in all worlds. These were referred to as “exceptions.” The name was nothing special, only enough to evoke the intended meaning within the proper context.
There were few enough such phenomena that they needed no special name. None were particularly impressive on their own, notable only for having a characteristic that was applicable across all worlds.

This is a story from another world. In concrete terms, it was a world very similar to modern-day Japan, though it had no connection to the world Yogiri and Tomochika came from. Either it was a parallel world, or perhaps at some point in the past it had branched off from the same world and become slightly different. Perhaps it arrived at a similar place entirely by coincidence, life and culture evolving in the same way entirely by chance. In any case, it was the world where the one who would one day become the Great Sage Mitsuki was born.

Imo this seems like "there's a universe, and there are parallel worlds of it. Then if you destroy all of those as a multiverse (collection of multiple universes), you can still go to an entirely different universes.

This is what I came across at the moment. Ik the scans are long but I don't want anyone complaining on a possible lack of context.

Snip

Snip

Would you mind looking at the above? :d

Where is the link for the OFFICIAL TRANSLATION that Mentions “a higher-dimensional being,” Where is the proof that Sweet Dao used MTL?

There ain't any to begin with

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[sukuna171]

Was 2-B Celestial Foundations approved?

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Was 2-B Celestial Foundations approved?

Nope

 

[Hecky2222]

Anyways. I'm finally free.

Astral stop liking your own comments bro

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Anyways. I'm finally free. So here's the context that I think should be added when evaluating the ratings. Do note that I'm only including what I came across. I didn't fully read the novel nor have the time to, so if there's some more context feel free to add so. I also don't have access to the Japanese raws, so if the jp has something differently, please point it out!


Abyss



As much as this reeks of "it's the 4th Dimension!", there are a few points of concern:

• This 4th Dimension overlaps with 3-dimensional space
• Rather than being called a higher dimension, it's called an "alternate dimension" instead

And afaik, orthogonal axes do NOT overlap. Take this with X and Y axes in a plane, they only meet at one single point, and that is the origin point 0,0. Other than that, they don't and can't overlap anywhere. Otherwise they won't be orthogonal to begin with....

So with this reason, I disagree with Low 1-C or 5D entirely. This seems more like it's just an alternate dimension above 3D space, and when these two separate space times connect at some point, the overlap occurs...

To explain a bit, The Abyss is defined as a world that on top of already having 3 basic spatial dimensions (length, width, and height), It also has an additional fourth spatial dimension. Anyway, it is stated that by using the alternate dimension, he, The King can appear anywhere and attack from anywhere. He can bypass any defense with no one able to do anything plus ordinary people can't perceive the dimension. This statement at first glance seems to only imply a general form of notion of its superiority. Nothing really mentioned about size of the Abyss. However, there is one interesting statement made by King before the explanation regarding the The Abyss, it was said by the King himself that he can only appear where the two dimensions (3D and 4D) overlap. This here also mention once again about the overlapping between the two dimension.

Why does this matter? The fact that The King says that he was able to appear everywhere he desired after that would have to mean that the Abyss being significant in size or at least the same size as the (main world) 3D spaces to cause such overlapping to allow for him to appear everywhere he wants which would mean that the size of The Abyss is at least Universal. In the chance people arguing that it only the basis 3 spatial dimension of The Abyss is of such size and not exactly the 4th dimension, It stated that his ability and influence over the 3D spaces are all because of the additional dimension. If the 4th axis is small, he won't be able to influence over the entire dimension as such it would mean that the higher axis must be as extensive as the other axises. The world (Abyss) is also shown to have time flow as we are told that the world passed by as the King starved to death, showing a progression of time in the Abyss. As additional support to that, MokoMoko said that space and time are a single indivisible whole, which means that for there is space, there must also be time as both of them correlate with one another.

The Abyss is in-fact significant Large size spatial dimension (at least universal) and have progression of time which would make the Abyss as Low 1-C.

Higher Universes

The rest bolded line has some mistranslations, and this is what the OP gave in its place:






Imo this seems like "there's a universe, and there are parallel worlds of it. Then if you destroy all of those as a multiverse (collection of multiple universes), you can still go to an entirely different universes.

This is what I came across at the moment. Ik the scans are long but I don't want anyone complaining on a possible lack of context.


Would you mind looking at the above? :d

There ain't any to begin with

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UEG had appeared behind Toichiro, looking perfectly composed.In the first place, since they had come here from entirely different worlds, it was only natural that they could both move between different universes as a matter of course.From that point on, it was a repeated cycle of further tragedy and carnage.In short, they would move between universes, predict the universe the opponent was moving to, and blow that universe away.They would move outside the multiverse that encompassed the universe where the opponent was located, and attack that universe from there.Then, the opponent would move to an even higher-order universe and launch an attack from there.It was a never-ending cycle, but the end came abruptly.Toichiro's attack annihilated the universe that contained UEG

Regarding the text I provided, it is incorrect—I simply didn’t notice the mistake. The official translation is the one I have included below ↓

She had followed him from an entirely different world first, so it was no surprise she could follow him here as well. Now what would follow would be even greater tragedy. They would both leap between universes, trying to predict their opponent’s moves and erase their destination before they made it there. They would attempt to jump out of the dimensional space occupied by their opponent and destroy it from the outside. As they did, their opponent would jump to an even higher level universe and attempt the same thing. There should have been no end to the cycle, but suddenly there was. Touichirou’s attack had erased the universe containing the UEG.

The higher universes are universes that transcend the entire sea, and since the sea is 1C, the lowest higher universe in the hierarchy of higher universes would be 1C (7D), because the higher universes transcend the entire sea ↓

Worlds existed within Celestial Foundations, and these Foundations existed within the “sea.” The sea was enormous, containing countless such Foundations, but it was not hard to imagine the existence of worlds outside of it. There were worlds, the space outside them, and another place beyond all ofbthat. Worlds with different fundamental laws all existed nested within eachbother. That was apparently the structure of the universe. “Apparently,” because it was impossible to observe the entire thing.

Simply put, your understanding of the structure of the higher universes is incorrect, I will try to simplify the matter as much as possible, the lower universe has parallel worlds, dimensions, universes, and a dimensional space, and all of that is just part of a higher-level universe, noting that time and space are infinite, which means that the lower universe contains an infinite number of universes, parallel worlds, dimensions, and dimensional space, and this space has been proven in another context to be infinite, and it also has infinite size, and all of that... the structure of the higher universes is that everything in them is infinite since time and space are infinite, and each higher universe contains the lower universe which contains everything I mentioned, and this continues endlessly without end, and as I explained here, reaching a higher universe requires a being with higher dimensions, and as for the matter of power, the author considers higher-dimensional beings to be powerful and possessing immense strength, the author refers to them this way not because they are higher-dimensional but only to indicate their strength, in very short, since we have the context of the Abyss King, we now have an idea about the author’s concept of power.

The UEG searched her surroundings. The empty blackness really seemed to go on forever. As far as her senses could reach, the darkness continued on, unending. So she tried looking into other dimensions, parallel worlds, or alternate universes, but none of it worked. Only the same void greeted her.

There really was nothing here. Finally realizing it, she started to feel the beginnings of fear. No matter where she went, there was nothing. Beyond that, she couldn’t teleport.

“I-In that case, I will incinerate everything! Time! Space! The universe itself! The higher-level universe that encompasses this one!”

The UEG unleashed her power in full force. But that power, which should have annihilated everything, vanished into the darkness. It hadn’t made the slightest change in her surroundings.

She had followed him from an entirely different world first, so it was no surprise she could follow him here as well. Now what would follow would be even greater tragedy. They would both leap between universes, trying to predict their opponent’s moves and erase their destination before they made it there. They would attempt to jump out of the dimensional space occupied by their opponent and destroy it from the outside. As they did, their opponent would jump to an even higher level universe and attempt the same thing. There should have been no end to the cycle, but suddenly there was. Touichirou’s attack had erased the universe containing the UEG.

Hmm. Though I was holding back, I am impressed you survived.”

“Now it’s my turn!” He had been unmotivated before, but he was starting to
feel the urge to fight back. Touichirou headed to a universe governed by entirely different laws and immediately erased the one he had just come from along with all the parallel universes connected to it.

“Honestly...I fail to understand what you are attempting to do in destroying all the parallel universes like that.” The UEG appeared behind him, calm and composed.

“I don’t want to hear that from you.”

Daimaou nodded her head in understanding.

I think you can understand the ...... way, can't you? You can't reach me, you know. I manipulate space-time and control infinity. There is an infinite gap between you and me. It seems my attack didn't get through, but your attack didn't get through to me either...”　
The Great Demon King waved one hand carelessly. Her hand sword ripped through space. Patty could not tell what it cut through, but she could see that the Great Demon King had cut through something of his own volition.　

One of Ganze's hands fell. His right hand, with its heavy cuirass, fell, making a dull thud.
　
More than pain, more than fear, the thought of unreasonableness prevailed. Distorting space and building infinite distance. Any attack is meaningless if it cannot reach you. This is the best defense Ganze has. But it was easily broken. He didn't understand the meaning. Infinite means literally limitless. No attack could ever reach him.

Some of us believe in a theory like this: There are universes contained inside larger universes and so on. Why has that total collection of universes survived? If space and time are infinite, then there is a possibility that eventually an ultimate being would emerge, one that could wipe out all universes on a whim. If the possibility isn’t zero, then given infinite time, it is guaranteed to happen. But it hasn’t. From what we’ve been able to observe, once gods reach a certain threshold of power, they disappear. So there must be someone out there erasing them, right? There must be some sort of limit or criteria being applied.”

There is a hierarchy of space-times that transcend the normal continuity of space-time, where even the UEG, which surpasses the limits of space-time, cannot interfere with them, and @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless explained this here


Conclusion: based on all of this, we conclude that each higher universe has a dimensional space, and we know that moving between higher universes requires the entity to have a higher-dimensional nature, and we conclude that there is a hierarchy of space-time continuums that transcend the normal continuity of space-time, and that space is infinite, and time and space are infinite, and each universe has parallel universes, a dimensional space, different universes, dimensions, and so on, and all of this is part of a higher universe that contains it, and this continues endlessly without end, and based on this, the higher universes have a high space-time nature, and this proves the existence of higher dimensions for each higher universe in order to contain the lower universe which includes everything I mentioned, and we also have a hierarchy of space-times that transcend the normal continuity of space-time, and a dimensional space, and so on, and therefore all of this indicates that the higher universes are H1B.

The world of the Final Group

The Final Group contains all of these worlds and more, as the Absolute God stated that there are worlds beyond the perception of all gods, which means that these worlds transcend everything we know in cosmology, and the Absolute God says that just because we cannot perceive these worlds does not mean they do not exist, and this means that the world of the Final Group would be H1B+ because it contains worlds that transcend even the higher universes H1B, and the world of the Final Group contains all of this, making it H1B+ as well above the baseline.

---

The Abyss: Low 1-C
The Sea: 1C
The Higher Universes: H1B
Worlds that transcend all of this: +H1B
The Final Group: +H1B above the baseline.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

How are we adding new cosmology proposals 10 pages in?....

 

[sukuna171]

Basically, since the verse now accepts the concept of infinity, Celestial Foundations and the Sea would return to the state where they were before:

• Celestial Foundations are universes.
• Celestial Foundations have their own flow of time.
• A Celestial Foundation can house multiple timelines within itself. Whenever Darian died, his soul was able to travel back in time. Every time he travelled back to the past because of his death, it created an entirely different timeline. The timelines exist simultaneously, since the main timeline where Darian fled from Yogiri didn't cease to exist, or get rewritten when Darian returned to the past. Whenever Lynel dies, his soul is also sent to a parallel timeline. Later in volume 12, Lynel confirms he has experienced Random Walk countless times. This would imply that he has been sent to countless parallel universes/timelines.
• Alice's dimension, which is infinite, is smaller compared to the Celestial Foundation.
• There are countless Celestial Foundations , existing in a space called "The Sea".
• The Sea is infinite.
• As for the Abyss, the relevant context is in this thread (it has 4 spatial dimensions and time seems to exist there as well). The Sea would contain the Abyss.

Also, the Paella Foundation is large enough to host the Ultimate Paella Martial Arts Tournament, where she fought every version of herself.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Astral stop liking your own comments bro

Eh??

To explain a bit, The Abyss is defined as a world that on top of already having 3 basic spatial dimensions (length, width, and height), It also has an additional fourth spatial dimension. Anyway, it is stated that by using the alternate dimension, he, The King can appear anywhere and attack from anywhere. He can bypass any defense with no one able to do anything plus ordinary people can't perceive the dimension. This statement at first glance seems to only imply a general form of notion of its superiority. Nothing really mentioned about size of the Abyss. However, there is one interesting statement made by King before the explanation regarding the The Abyss, it was said by the King himself that he can only appear where the two dimensions (3D and 4D) overlap. This here also mention once again about the overlapping between the two dimension.

Why does this matter? The fact that The King says that he was able to appear everywhere he desired after that would have to mean that the Abyss being significant in size or at least the same size as the (main world) 3D spaces to cause such overlapping to allow for him to appear everywhere he wants which would mean that the size of The Abyss is at least Universal. In the chance people arguing that it only the basis 3 spatial dimension of The Abyss is of such size and not exactly the 4th dimension, It stated that his ability and influence over the 3D spaces are all because of the additional dimension. If the 4th axis is small, he won't be able to influence over the entire dimension as such it would mean that the higher axis must be as extensive as the other axises. The world (Abyss) is also shown to have time flow as we are told that the world passed by as the King starved to death, showing a progression of time in the Abyss. As additional support to that, MokoMoko said that space and time are a single indivisible whole, which means that for there is space, there must also be time as both of them correlate with one another.

The Abyss is in-fact significant Large size spatial dimension (at least universal) and have progression of time which would make the Abyss as Low 1-C.

None of this matters because.... The author can use whatever word he likes for in verse terms. Marvel for example, has the 5th dimension and 6th dimension as 1-A stuff iirc (if not higher)

The thing is, no matter how many times it's called "4th Dimension" or "alternate dimension", if it's overlapping with the lower 3D space, it's not a higher orthongal axis. Much like with time dimensions, we require higher spatial dimensions to be orthogonal. Although we assume they are so usually unless context suggests otherwise.... But that's exactly what's happening here.


So what you're doing here is just writing a long text wall that doesn't in any way address my primary argument.

Regarding the text I provided, it is incorrect—I simply didn’t notice the mistake. The official translation is the one I have included below ↓

Backtracking now? You were the one who used the raws, and if you've read dao's previous threads, you should know otl has a mistranslation here.

Top that off with the fact that you said "official translation has it as higher dimensional beings" when in fact it says "higher level beings" instead.... I don't think I can trust you with scans anymore.

Anyways no, the otl is the incorrect one here since the raws say is 多元宇宙 (from your very own thread op btw), which literally means Multiverse, not "Dimensional Space".

Jisho.org: Japanese Dictionary

jisho.org

The higher universes are universes that transcend the entire sea, and since the sea is 1C, the lowest higher universe in the hierarchy of higher universes would be 1C (7D), because the higher universes transcend the entire sea ↓

You have not shown me why these higher universes should be uncountably infinitely larger than the Sea, so I see no reason on why we should let them be higher dimensional when they're just called higher order universes.

Simply put, your understanding of the structure of the higher universes is incorrect, I will try to simplify the matter as much as possible,

Alright, go on:

the lower universe has parallel worlds, dimensions, universes, and a dimensional space,

the bolded part is a mistranslation. And i never denied the lower universes don't have parallel worlds. In fact I support that notion:

Lower Universe -> Parallel Worlds branching from it -> Local multiverse -> Different Worlds with their own parallel sets and this goes on endlessly.

But is this anything above 2-A? NO

Q: Is a structure bigger than a 2-A structure Low 1-C by default?​

No, the default assumption is that this is not the case. "Bigger" could mean having more 2-A structures and, as explained in greater detail previously, having more 2-A structures, or even infinitely many 2-A structures, unless uncountably infinitely many, won't be above a single 2-A structure in size. This is due to these structures actually having the same size as a baseline 2-A structure. It is, however, possible to at least achieve greater than baseline 2-A power by upscaling from other characters who've performed 2-A feats or of the feats themselves, rather than by affecting 2-A structures containing other 2-A structures. However, if "bigger" is indicated to mean a size difference that makes the structure dimensionally superior to a 2-A structure, the structure qualifies for Low 1-C unless the fiction specifies otherwise.

To elaborate, a structure larger than 2-A meets the requirements for dimensional superiority over them if it either explicitly mentions an uncountably infinite number of universes or has portrayals/statements of being larger than 2-A structures to the point that even infinite multipliers on top of the size of that structure are of no relevance to it. Multiversal structures past Low 2-C frequently have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them. That isn't automatically Low 1-C, as for Low 1-C the distance must be known to be of non-insignificant size.

and all of that is just part of a higher-level universe,

This is just a 2-A within another 2-A, which as said above, is simply a matter of arrangement and thus still baseline 2-A.

noting that time and space are infinite, which means that the lower universe contains an infinite number of universes, parallel worlds, dimensions, and dimensional space, and this space has been proven in another context to be infinite, and it also has infinite size, and all of that... the structure of the higher universes is that everything in them is infinite since time and space are infinite,

No???

This is a huge NLF and leap of interpretation lol
The text calls space and time infinite in context to the totality of existence, the Ultimate Ensemble.
It specifically says "total collection of Universes"

The UEG couldn’t accept the words he was saying. They were incomprehensible to someone like her, who believed herself to be the most powerful being in existence.

“Some of us believe in a theory like this: There are universes contained inside larger universes and so on. Why has that total collection of universes survived? If space and time are infinite, then there is a possibility that eventually an ultimate being would emerge, one that could wipe out all universes on a whim. If the possibility isn’t zero, then given infinite time, it is guaranteed to happen. But it hasn’t. From what we’ve been able to observe, once gods reach a certain threshold of power, they disappear. So there must be someone out there erasing them, right? There must be some sort of limit or criteria being applied.”

That said, there were some who treated this as all that existed, since it comprised the entirety of the territory perceptible to the most intelligent life forms on these worlds. For convenience, the term “Ultimate Ensemble World” referred to this collection of worlds. Many of them followed similar laws, while many more followed entirely different ones. No through line could be established that applied to all of them.

You can't just isolate a line like "space and time are infinite" and apply it to every level of space time there is in-verse, especially when the context literally talks about the totality of all universes, the Ultimate Ensemble. Sure, the Ultimate Ensemble is infinite, but that would still be 2-A baseline unless you can prove that Infinity refers to uncountably infinitely larger instead (which is not the baseline assumption btw)

and each higher universe contains the lower universe which contains everything I mentioned, and this continues endlessly without end, and as I explained here,

Minus the parts I pointed out above, I don't have any other problem with your interpretation of the structure, it's simply the tiers you assign to them that I disagree with.

reaching a higher universe requires a being with higher dimensions

This, btw, is out of context once again. The context clearly just suggests "a higher level being", not mathematically higher dimensional. You were pointed out that in the tl thread. Okay, Raiki isn't trusted? But there's @ExcelsisBerny who's trusted with knowing Japanese on an advanced level, approving Raiki's translation.

At this point you're just arguing with empty straws lol

, and as for the matter of power, the author considers higher-dimensional beings to be powerful and possessing immense strength, the author refers to them this way not because they are higher-dimensional but only to indicate their strength, in very short, since we have the context of the Abyss King, we now have an idea about the author’s concept of power.

Immense does not by default even mean countably infinitely stronger, much less uncountably infinitely stronger.

There is a hierarchy of space-times that transcend the normal continuity of space-time, where even the UEG, which surpasses the limits of space-time, cannot interfere with them, and @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless explained this here

Transcneding space time isn't defaulted to any tier. Also, can you send the raws? I need to confirm if it's transcendence as in moving across or transcending as in surpassing something. Japanese has different kanji for both.

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Conclusion: based on all of this, we conclude that each higher universe has a dimensional space, and we know that moving between higher universes requires the entity to have a higher-dimensional nature, and we conclude that there is a hierarchy of space-time continuums that transcend the normal continuity of space-time, and that space is infinite, and time and space are infinite, and each universe has parallel universes, a dimensional space, different universes, dimensions, and so on, and all of this is part of a higher universe that contains it, and this continues endlessly without end, and based on this, the higher universes have a high space-time nature, and this proves the existence of higher dimensions for each higher universe in order to contain the lower universe which includes everything I mentioned, and we also have a hierarchy of space-times that transcend the normal continuity of space-time, and a dimensional space, and so on, and therefore all of this indicates that the higher universes are H1B.

Yeah no, most of this here are conclusions from empty straws.

The world of the Final Group

The Final Group contains all of these worlds and more, as the Absolute God stated that there are worlds beyond the perception of all gods, which means that these worlds transcend everything we know in cosmology, and the Absolute God says that just because we cannot perceive these worlds does not mean they do not exist, and this means that the world of the Final Group would be H1B+ because it contains worlds that transcend even the higher universes H1B, and the world of the Final Group contains all of this, making it H1B+ as well above the baseline

Same as above, there's nothing justifying this tier other than vague statements

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Eh??


None of this matters because.... The author can use whatever word he likes for in verse terms. Marvel for example, has the 5th dimension and 6th dimension as 1-A stuff iirc (if not higher)

The thing is, no matter how many times it's called "4th Dimension" or "alternate dimension", if it's overlapping with the lower 3D space, it's not a higher orthongal axis. Much like with time dimensions, we require higher spatial dimensions to be orthogonal. Although we assume they are so usually unless context suggests otherwise.... But that's exactly what's happening here.


So what you're doing here is just writing a long text wall that doesn't in any way address my primary argument.


Backtracking now? You were the one who used the raws, and if you've read dao's previous threads, you should know otl has a mistranslation here.

Top that off with the fact that you said "official translation has it as higher dimensional beings" when in fact it says "higher level beings" instead.... I don't think I can trust you with scans anymore.

Anyways no, the otl is the incorrect one here since the raws say is 多元宇宙 (from your very own thread op btw), which literally means Multiverse, not "Dimensional Space".

Jisho.org: Japanese Dictionary

jisho.org

You have not shown me why these higher universes should be uncountably infinitely larger than the Sea, so I see no reason on why we should let them be higher dimensional when they're just called higher order universes.

Alright, go on:

the bolded part is a mistranslation. And i never denied the lower universes don't have parallel worlds. In fact I support that notion:

Lower Universe -> Parallel Worlds branching from it -> Local multiverse -> Different Worlds with their own parallel sets and this goes on endlessly.

But is this anything above 2-A? NO


This is just a 2-A within another 2-A, which as said above, is simply a matter of arrangement and thus still baseline 2-A.

No???

This is a huge NLF and leap of interpretation lol
The text calls space and time infinite in context to the totality of existence, the Ultimate Ensemble.
It specifically says "total collection of Universes"



You can't just isolate a line like "space and time are infinite" and apply it to every level of space time there is in-verse, especially when the context literally talks about the totality of all universes, the Ultimate Ensemble. Sure, the Ultimate Ensemble is infinite, but that would still be 2-A baseline unless you can prove that Infinity refers to uncountably infinitely larger instead (which is not the baseline assumption btw)

Minus the parts I pointed out above, I don't have any other problem with your interpretation of the structure, it's simply the tiers you assign to them that I disagree with.

This, btw, is out of context once again. The context clearly just suggests "a higher level being", not mathematically higher dimensional. You were pointed out that in the tl thread. Okay, Raiki isn't trusted? But there's @ExcelsisBerny who's trusted with knowing Japanese on an advanced level, approving Raiki's translation.

At this point you're just arguing with empty straws lol

Immense does not by default even mean countably infinitely stronger, much less uncountably infinitely stronger.


Transcneding space time isn't defaulted to any tier. Also, can you send the raws? I need to confirm if it's transcendence as in moving across or transcending as in surpassing something. Japanese has different kanji for both.

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Yeah no, most of this here are conclusions from empty straws.

Same as above, there's nothing justifying this tier other than vague statements

I’m done. Honestly, all of what you said is wrong. I’ve said what I needed to say, we’ve discussed everything, and everything has been applied. Since you admit that you don’t have personal experience with instantaneous death, it’s better for you to leave it to those who do have the expertise and the staff. That’s the end of my statement.

Literally, the amount of inaccuracies in your words, due to not fully following all three accounts, is countless. Honestly, I’m tired of responding to baseless objections. So, all I want to say, I’ve said, and the matter is now up to the staff.

And also, I don’t like responses like this, as they seem superficial to me and aimed only at opposing. This is my personal opinion, so there’s no point in continuing to reply to you.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

He has literally mentioned everything, and I think it would be appropriate if one of the staff came now and completely stopped the discussion in order to analyze, give the votes, and provide the final responses. Everything that could be said has been said so far, and I hope everyone respects this and waits for the final discussion between me and the staff to conclude this matter.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

I may understand disagreement with Higher Universes. But saying that the Abyss isn't higher dimensional despite the most blatant scan of a higher dimensional space? C'mon

It was, in a literal sense, a world in a different dimension. Call it the Astral Plane, the Spirit World, or the Abyss. It went by any number of names, but to put it into simple terms, it was a world where length, width, and height were supplemented with an additional fourth dimension.

This is the most straightforward statement of the Abyss having 4 "degrees of freedom"/ways of movement that can be given. It literally mentions that our 3 perpendicular dimensional axes ("length, width and height") are supplemented with an additional, fourth dimension (i.e., another dimensional axe. Another degree of freedom where you can move).

Not only that, but there are also statements that support it behaving like an additional axis, like this one:

“This is why they call themselves kings. They can travel through alternate dimensions to appear anywhere and kill their enemies by doing things like grabbing their hearts directly. They can also avoid any kind of attack in the same way. As such, no one can stand against them. Thus, kings.”

This is a common topic when talking about higher dimensions. Like, "a higher dimensional being can see the inside what's inside of an egg the same way you can see what's inside a 2D square". Basically, "what looks closed to us, looks like that because it is closed in 3 dimensions. But given we cannot perceive 3 dimensions, we cannot close it there, so a 4th dimensional being will be able to see/interact with what's inside the same way we can see/interact with what's inside a square (something that's 'completely closed' from a 2-D perspective)".

Also, this one? This one makes it even more straightforward if possible, directly stating that 3 dimensional beings cannot perceive the 4th dimension, or that the dimension is a three-dimensional space compared to the Abyss (which is that space + an additional fourth dimension).

But then their eyes met. The boy was looking at him. That was impossible. There was no way he could see this dimension. No matter where he looked, from within three-dimensional space, it was impossible to see someone in the Abyss. And yet he could tell that the boy was watching him.

It being called "another dimension" isn't an anti-feat, anyway. Such as how 4D and 5D can be used to represent anyway, so can the term "another dimension". In this case, it is used to refer to the realm that is Abyss, "another dimension" in the sense that it is outside what the 3-dimensional World encompasses. I'm just going by the scans sent here. But they all seem to imply that Abyss is, indeed, a 4-D realm, not a "an alternate dimension above 3D that sometimes overlap with it".

And, why the hell wouldn't a 4-Dimensional space be able to overlap with a 3-Dimensional one? That's the most common thing that happens when talking with higher-dimensional spaces.

You don't need to go to a verse nor to a way too complex Maths class to see that. Just go to Desmos 3D graphic and put the function z=0. There you have a 3-Dimensional space (R³) overlapping with a 2-Dimensional one (the plane z=0).

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I don't have any problem with the Abyss being a Low 2-C realm.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

What's your opinion on 1-C and 1-B ?

I said before that I'm fine with Qaw's 1-C take (although I'd personally be more comfortable with Low 1-C).

For 1-B/High 1-B, I dont find it convincing enough.

I may understand disagreement with Higher Universes. But saying that the Abyss isn't higher dimensional despite the most blatant scan of a higher dimensional space? C'mon

This is the most straightforward statement of the Abyss having 4 "degrees of freedom"/ways of movement that can be given. It literally mentions that our 3 perpendicular dimensional axes ("length, width and height") are supplemented with an additional, fourth dimension (i.e., another dimensional axe. Another degree of freedom where you can move).

Not only that, but there are also statements that support it behaving like an additional axis, like this one:



This is a common topic when talking about higher dimensions. Like, "a higher dimensional being can see the inside what's inside of an egg the same way you can see what's inside a 2D square". Basically, "what looks closed to us, looks like that because it is closed in 3 dimensions. But given we cannot perceive 3 dimensions, we cannot close it there, so a 4th dimensional being will be able to see/interact with what's inside the same way we can see/interact with what's inside a square (something that's 'completely closed' from a 2-D perspective)".

Also, this one? This one makes it even more straightforward if possible, directly stating that 3 dimensional beings cannot perceive the 4th dimension, or that the dimension is a three-dimensional space compared to the Abyss (which is that space + an additional fourth dimension).



It being called "another dimension" isn't an anti-feat, anyway. Such as how 4D and 5D can be used to represent anyway, so can the term "another dimension". In this case, it is used to refer to the realm that is Abyss, "another dimension" in the sense that it is outside what the 3-dimensional World encompasses. I'm just going by the scans sent here. But they all seem to imply that Abyss is, indeed, a 4-D realm, not a "an alternate dimension above 3D that sometimes overlap with it".

And, why the hell wouldn't a 4-Dimensional space be able to overlap with a 3-Dimensional one? That's the most common thing that happens when talking with higher-dimensional spaces.

You don't need to go to a verse nor to a way too complex Maths class to see that. Just go to Desmos 3D graphic and put the function z=0. There you have a 3-Dimensional space (R³) overlapping with a 2-Dimensional one (the plane z=0).

Agreed. The evidence and narrative implications are just way too explicit for it to not be higher-dimensional.

 

[Reiner04]

I may understand disagreement with Higher Universes. But saying that the Abyss isn't higher dimensional despite the most blatant scan of a higher dimensional space? C'mon

^ pretty much my opinion.

In anycase i will ask for @Qawsedf234 opinion on High 1-B and 1-A b4 closing tjis thread. Hope im not bothering with the pings.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I’m done. Honestly, all of what you said is wrong. I’ve said what I needed to say, we’ve discussed everything, and everything has been applied. Since you admit that you don’t have personal experience with instantaneous death, it’s better for you to leave it to those who do have the expertise and the staff. That’s the end of my statement.

So we agree to disagree? Sure

Literally, the amount of inaccuracies in your words, due to not fully following all three accounts, is countless. Honestly, I’m tired of responding to baseless objections. So, all I want to say, I’ve said, and the matter is now up to the staff.

And also, I don’t like responses like this, as they seem superficial to me and aimed only at opposing. This is my personal opinion, so there’s no point in continuing to reply to you.

I would suggest you not call an argument with proper scans "baseless" and "aimed only at opposing" when you couldn't even refute a argument and just ignored everything

Did you answer the part about overlapping abyss? No, you just ignored it and continued to repeat your earlier argument, nothing of substance added.

What about the translations? You've used non-otl in the OP yet backtrack go it being wrong, without even checking if it's wrong??

What about the stuff about the higher dimensional beings being out of context? Yo didn't present a single argument of substance against that.

At this point it seems like you're escaping every argument by saying "you're arguing for the sake of arguing" and "everything you said is wrong" without addressing a single bit.

Also, I believe we only had a conversation of like 2 replies each to one another, I don't think it's even an "argument from repetition" from either sides...

 

[Cipher72]

Agreed. The evidence and narrative implications are just way too explicit for it to not be higher-dimensional.

I agree with this asw, I think L1-C is fine but I don't really understand which scan is used to get aleph-1

Infinite Universes containing infinite universes that goes on forever is an Aleph-1 number of universes

But yea I was mostly asking about 1-B thx for clarifying. So rn we have no-one that agrees with 1-B, 2 disagrees & 1 neutral and waiting on Qwas.

 

[Cipher72]

Snip

whole lotta yap and not a single link, if you are ignorant or uncertain on a certain topic then I suggest you to refrain from making such bold accusations that may tarnish another members reputation especially when said member is unable to defend themselves. That's all.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I may understand disagreement with Higher Universes. But saying that the Abyss isn't higher dimensional despite the most blatant scan of a higher dimensional space? C'mon

This is the most straightforward statement of the Abyss having 4 "degrees of freedom"/ways of movement that can be given. It literally mentions that our 3 perpendicular dimensional axes ("length, width and height") are supplemented with an additional, fourth dimension (i.e., another dimensional axe. Another degree of freedom where you can move).

Not only that, but there are also statements that support it behaving like an additional axis, like this one:



This is a common topic when talking about higher dimensions. Like, "a higher dimensional being can see the inside what's inside of an egg the same way you can see what's inside a 2D square". Basically, "what looks closed to us, looks like that because it is closed in 3 dimensions. But given we cannot perceive 3 dimensions, we cannot close it there, so a 4th dimensional being will be able to see/interact with what's inside the same way we can see/interact with what's inside a square (something that's 'completely closed' from a 2-D perspective)".

Also, this one? This one makes it even more straightforward if possible, directly stating that 3 dimensional beings cannot perceive the 4th dimension, or that the dimension is a three-dimensional space compared to the Abyss (which is that space + an additional fourth dimension).



It being called "another dimension" isn't an anti-feat, anyway. Such as how 4D and 5D can be used to represent anyway, so can the term "another dimension". In this case, it is used to refer to the realm that is Abyss, "another dimension" in the sense that it is outside what the 3-dimensional World encompasses. I'm just going by the scans sent here. But they all seem to imply that Abyss is, indeed, a 4-D realm, not a "an alternate dimension above 3D that sometimes overlap with it".

I think I made it clear that my main reason of contention was the overlapping stuff

And, why the hell wouldn't a 4-Dimensional space be able to overlap with a 3-Dimensional one? That's the most common thing that happens when talking with higher-dimensional spaces.

You don't need to go to a verse nor to a way too complex Maths class to see that. Just go to Desmos 3D graphic and put the function z=0. There you have a 3-Dimensional space (R³) overlapping with a 2-Dimensional one (the plane z=0).

Im not sure about the desmos bit since this is the first time I've heard of the term. So I concede for now. I'll research it and make a thread if I find anything worth discussing

But question; if we put z=0 (which I understand is the 3rd axis), doesn't that mean we're setting the size of the 3rd dimension to zero? Once again I'm not familiar with desmos at all, so...