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Sorry Da... I mean Jack. Man that's cool: Danny Phantom vs Raiden (Metal Gear)

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LordGriffin1000

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If you know Danny Phantom, then you know the context behind the title and why I found it somewhat funny, if you don't know, don't worry about it. Anyway, a match that doesn't result in who has the biggest skill slop chain (Because we all hate those), just a super skilled cyborg ninja vs a super angst ghostly hero.

Match Rules
  • Speed is Equalized
  • Both in Character
  • Season 3 Danny Phantom (8-A)
  • MGS4 Raiden
  • Starting Distance: 100 Meters

Danny Phantom:

Raiden (Metal Gear): 1 (XSOULOFCINDERX,

Inconclusive:

Note: Just want to explain Danny's emotional empowerment rating so people don't immediately jump to conclusions. Yes, Danny can reach that level quickly but it's more akin to a reaction of emotions given the opponent/situation. Simply being called a loser can result in an overall power increase but his level has consistently gone up to that of what he's faced with, so for example if Raiden does an amp in speed, Danny will gain a speed increase to a comparable level in response and slowly increase overtime the more he's pushed, not immediately jump to its absolute maximum because Raiden isn't at that level. I'm only stating this to avoid confusion.
 
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did you just call raiden "redian"

Also talking about amps is pointless because MGS4 does not have that, in fact the feat he scales to is actually 7-C. What do you even expect him to do here? You're pretty much leaving him unable to do anything except hide since an HF Blade won't be any help against Low-Godly Regen, and they don't even have layered NPI except for basic.

Unless you were intending to use MGRR then this a mismatch.
 
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did you just call raiden "redian"
I was like where, saw it, fixed it.
Also talking about amps is pointless because MGS4 does not have that, in fact the feat he scales to is actually 7-C. What do you even expect him to do here? You're pretty much leaving him unable to do anything except hide since an HF Blade won't be any help against Low-Godly Regen, and they don't even have layered NPI except for basic.
It's not pointless, it's to explain that Danny simply just doesn't immediately jump to multiverse level because his emotions amplified. It's reactionary to, and the Raiden portion was giving an example, that's why I choose this key.

And no, he can do far more then just hide. Danny's regeneration isn't passive and he uses energy when regenerating or reforming a new body. He tires himself out when using lots of energy and his layered Intangibility is something that needs to be activated, so Raiden can interact with him normally.
Unless you were intending to use MGRR then this a mismatch.
To call this a mismatch is to say you think Raiden can't dodge Danny's basic attacks and outlast him with skill... Let's actually look at how Danny fights...

He takes both a physical and ranged approach. His hand to hand combat is basic and Raiden easily out skills and can dodge his simple energy as they are just palm sized beams and waves, ice attacks are the same, and while Ghostly Wail is hard to dodge, Danny doesn't spam that or use it on singular foes. Support wise, his body control is unorthodox but I doubt Raiden can't handle a boy who's opening holes or splitting himself to avoid attacks, and duplication isn't to helpful since it splits his overall power which would allow Raiden to dogwalk even easier. Stealth through Invisibility gets countered, and most of his other stuff isn't to helpful, blinding Raiden (ain't helping), electrocuting him (requires contact lol), and so on.

Danny's actually best method is to go for his layered possession but it's contact based which sure can be achieved by moving into Raiden's attack but that's not his go to method, Ghostly Wail is also a good method but that's not his go to method against a single opponent. He'll increase in power as he's pressured but as I mentioned it's not a massive jump because Raiden isn't an overwhelming force in the statistics department, plus Danny would still need to land a hit. Danny's overconfident, he's a teenager, he doesn't even take his own rouges gallery seriously and they all can put hands on him.

So no, this isn't a mismatch, Raiden just needs to exhaust Danny, which is not to hard given his kit and skills, Danny's wincons are things that would be active later in the fight but can be avoided to some degree. Using MGRR will just result in the boring Raiden overwhelms, Danny immediately hard counters with EE do to the extreme situation and then gets more and more buffed. Here, at least there is discussion, Danny has to actively use his abilities and try to adapt to a far more skilled opponent without exhausting himself.

If it wasn't obvious, I actually think Raiden stands a solid chance. His skills outmatch Danny's, he's got the ability to negate any stealth chance, he can avoid almost all his attacks, he can interact with him unless Danny uses layered intangibility. Meanwhile Danny has methods to avoid Raiden's attacks, can eventually grow in power to gain a steady advantage (in AP and Speed though only helps a little against someone like Raiden), and he's got possession and Ghostly Wail. I don't see this as a mismatch but will wait for more input.
 
Exhaust Danny? The physiology page says ghosts literally have infinite stamina. If you were intending for him to start out as a human then you'd have listed him as Danny Fenton, not Phantom.
 
MG4 and he has literally no way to beat this dude.
Outlasting sounds cool but Raiden only has NPI on a single attack (layered doesn't even matter, he only has basic NPI for a single thing), and Danny can just float above a lil and avoid him completely.
Unfortunate as it might be, I could not figure out a way to get NPI to scale from Big Boss over to Raiden from PW, there's no chain or statement that would cause it to transfer. That may change in the future but atm I still don't know if it's possible.

Legit the only way I see this going is Raiden quickly realizes he can't box him, quite literally due to a lack of abilities, and then just, goes away and stealth's him till he sees a opening which would probably be when he no longer stays in phantom form and then just murk's him then before he can change back or react.
Which I wouldn't really call a match at that point. Raiden just dips and waits however long he needs to whether it's a hour, or even a few days till Danny lets his guard down and just gets assassinated because what else is he supposed to do? He won't stay and waste time against a foe he literally can't do anything about in his current situation, and at that point what is DANNY supposed to do? He's not gonna know Raiden is just waiting for a slip up and then he instantly gets put on a shirt, there's no reason for him to assume that.
 
Exhaust Danny? The physiology page says ghosts literally have infinite stamina. If you were intending for him to start out as a human then you'd have listed him as Danny Fenton, not Phantom.
It literally says that's full ghosts, not half ghosts and Danny's profile has him at Superhuman stamina, come on now. He's literally passed out in the first episode for over use of his powers.

MG4 and he has literally no way to beat this dude.
Outlasting sounds cool but Raiden only has NPI on a single attack (layered doesn't even matter, he only has basic NPI for a single thing), and Danny can just float above a lil and avoid him completely.
Danny's solid... He needs to maintain a physical form to interact with Raiden which means he can still be hit and cut up. Also, Danny never does that, he's always getting in close
Unfortunate as it might be, I could not figure out a way to get NPI to scale from Big Boss over to Raiden from PW, there's no chain or statement that would cause it to transfer. That may change in the future but atm I still don't know if it's possible.
Not really needed as I explained in my previous comment.
Legit the only way I see this going is Raiden quickly realizes he can't box him, quite literally due to a lack of abilities, and then just, goes away and stealth's him till he sees a opening which would probably be when he no longer stays in phantom form and then just murk's him then before he can change back or react.
Which I wouldn't really call a match at that point. Raiden just dips and waits however long he needs to whether it's a hour, or even a few days till Danny lets his guard down and just gets assassinated because what else is he supposed to do? He won't stay and waste time against a foe he literally can't do anything about in his current situation, and at that point what is DANNY supposed to do? He's not gonna know Raiden is just waiting for a slip up and then he instantly gets put on a shirt, there's no reason for him to assume that.
He can fight him, as I said above, he's got the means to do so. This fight won't last days.
 
It literally says that's full ghosts, not half ghosts and Danny's profile has him at Superhuman stamina, come on now. He's literally passed out in the first episode for over use of his powers.
I mean, did he not get better? Episode 1 is exactly the type of scenario I'd expect it to have caveats because he's new to it.
Danny's solid... He needs to maintain a physical form to interact with Raiden which means he can still be hit and cut up. Also, Danny never does that, he's always getting in close
So then he just gets quantum shredded every time he tries to get close then?
What's Danny even supposed to do at that point, he's never getting the drop on Raiden, and I do mean that, Soliton Rader can even detect ghosts so there's no secret invisibility bypass either, Raiden will always know where he is and has the skill to avoid him or counter before he can land a hit basically every time.
Not really needed as I explained in my previous comment.
Is Danny really not smart enough to just abuse his one unbeatable exploit?
He can fight him, as I said above, he's got the means to do so. This fight won't last days.
And then what? Either Raiden shreds him to lil quantum particles if he doesn't need NPI, and that allegedly takes stamina to heal from, in which case dude gets drained fast given every single time he even attempts to get in he just kind of gets painted across the floor, or he's to problematic and Raiden dips and plays the long haul. Unless Danny has sensing that can get past Raiden's stealth but I don't think he does? If he does he'd be safe from that and Raiden would have to actually engage even if he doesn't want to, but I'm not quite sure how Danny would go about forcing that.
Even worse tho, if he doesn't have constant NPI, what's stopping a single lightning strike from just knocking him out? I don't see any electricity res.
 
I mean, did he not get better? Episode 1 is exactly the type of scenario I'd expect it to have caveats because he's new to it.
Yeah but I was saying it's not infinite, not that he doesn't get better.
So then he just gets quantum shredded every time he tries to get close then?
What's Danny even supposed to do at that point, he's never getting the drop on Raiden, and I do mean that, Soliton Rader can even detect ghosts so there's no secret invisibility bypass either, Raiden will always know where he is and has the skill to avoid him or counter before he can land a hit basically every time.
Ghostly Wail, eventually speed increase that would allow him to catch him.
Is Danny really not smart enough to just abuse his one unbeatable exploit?
If only you knew, at his best he's really smart, could be comparable to actual geniuses in his verse but normally he's a C student, overconfident to such a degree that despite getting hands put on him by his rogues gallery he'd still say he always kicks their butt, he was smart enough to turn on his house anti-ecto defenses against ghost energy users but literally the next second he transformed and only after the house aimed at him did he realize his mistake. He learned FK weakness and it required pumpkins and he outright says "there's no pumpkins here" only to correct himself and call himself an idiot because it was Halloween and the room had a pumpkin in it, he gets caught of guard a lot and calls himself out on it.

So normally, yes, I'd say he's not smart enough to abuse exploit, he called his powers the ultimate cheat code one time but he's not a spammer, he's always rushed in regardless of the best method of combat unless it was truly an unbeatable situation. He'd half to get serious to start getting smart but once he sees he has an advantage, he's the time to start bragging occasionally. There's even times he'd keep fighting despite gaining no momentum against the foe. (This is one of the core reasons I almost always give the opponent the intelligence vote because Danny normally a goofball)
And then what? Either Raiden shreds him to lil quantum particles if he doesn't need NPI, and that allegedly takes stamina to heal from, in which case dude gets drained fast given every single time he even attempts to get in he just kind of gets painted across the floor, or he's to problematic and Raiden dips and plays the long haul.
Because he's still got other methods, he may not spam but intangibility and body control are still used techniques. Possession and Ghostly Wail are still options.
Unless Danny has sensing that can get past Raiden's stealth but I don't think he does? If he does he'd be safe from that and Raiden would have to actually engage even if he doesn't want to, but I'm not quite sure how Danny would go about forcing that.
Danny shows he can send his energy/consciousness outward and find people he isn't near but no exact location spotting, just an awareness when his energy finds someone.
Even worse tho, if he doesn't have constant NPI, what's stopping a single lightning strike from just knocking him out? I don't see any electricity res.
Nothing other than put up a barrier (He's been electrocuted a lot), that's why I'm saying it's not a stomp, Danny can gain advantage to by getting serious and using his more potent abilities but he's naturally coming at it differently most of the time. Raiden sure can't immediately put him down by cutting him up but he's skilled enough to fight him and force him to get weaker before Danny gets right in the head.
 
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Ghostly Wail, eventually speed increase that would allow him to catch him.
Not quite how'd that work, if he starts becoming a problem Raiden just won't fight, i.e, there'd be nothing to "Catch up" to, he'd be gone, at that point he's going to have to be on constant alert for who knows how long, but right below out outlined he very much wouldn't do that.

Also, Raiden resists sound manip, has type 2 immortality, and can easily avoid a sonic attack.
This is basically just saying Danny isn't exactly the brightest tool in the shed, don't got much to say to that.

Because he's still got other methods, he may not spam but intangibility and body control are still used techniques. Possession and Ghostly Wail are still options.
Possession def ain't gonna work, he's never going to get a chance to do that, like at all, Raiden just avoids any attempts, plus the fact Raiden knows possession exists just further cements he'd be inclined to avoid it, and even if he could, Psycho Mantis' funny slop saves the day.

Ghostly Wail legit ain't a big deal either; Raiden can absolutely survive at least a hit from that even if it deals massive damage due to his type 2, but moreso, he has sound resistance of over 200db in human let alone cyborg, which is only greater.
And if Dan gets so strong to where wail would actually be an option that'd win in like one hit, he's either long since worn out, or Raiden has long since cut his losses and pisses off to assassinate and stealth instead of boxing.
Danny shows he can send his energy/consciousness outward and find people he isn't near but no exact location spotting, just an awareness when his energy finds someone.
That's 100% not good enough, Raiden not only can stealth people with actual enhanced senses and clairvoyance in this key (Old Snake), like by an excessive degree, but he has built in sensors that can detect ghosts including the ghost's pov, field of view, awareness, and more.
Even if Danny actively tried looking, Raiden would always know where he'd be looking and just never be spotted or found because of it.
Nothing (He's been electrocuted a lot),
There's a tremendous gap between Raiden's electricity and standard, his utterly eclipses electricity that can instantly ko dudes who resist it, 7 times over.
that's why I'm saying it's not a stomp, Danny can gain advantage to by getting serious and using his more potent abilities but he's naturally coming at it differently most of the time. Raiden sure can't immediately put him down by cutting him up but he's skilled enough to fight him and force him to get weaker before Danny gets right in the head.
Raiden doesn't have to cut him up, he can just zap him and knock him out if he doesn't require NPI.

All the same, currently the only way I see this going is Danny is obnoxious enough to where Raiden doesn't fight him directly, whether it's his growing stats being a huge red flag or the constant regeneration making attacking a dead-end far as he knows, and opts for stealth when he gets that chance, or a mere zap takes him out.

There's no world where Raiden sticks around if his foe starts overtaking him in stats, he's going to quickly realize he's growing and disengage long before it ever becomes a problem and take him out when he lets his guard down, and without some sort of massive speed gap he's never hitting Raiden with anything, ever, he can't even rely on invisibility or intang because his sensors would still detect him, though that begs the question, how much energy does it take for him to heal from being sliced into a million lil bits? If he's drained after like 3 or 5, the fight isn't lasting all that long at all anyway for the growth to matter.

Unless the growth is like some Garou lv shit, I don't see it mattering before Raiden just reacts to it and plays around it.
 
Not quite how'd that work, if he starts becoming a problem Raiden just won't fight, i.e, there'd be nothing to "Catch up" to, he'd be gone, at that point he's going to have to be on constant alert for who knows how long, but right below out outlined he very much wouldn't do that.
Alright then
Also, Raiden resists sound manip, has type 2 immortality, and can easily avoid a sonic attack.
It's a sound wave that applies a powerful shockwave that physically injured individuals, resisting sound won't stop physical damage, it's left immortals incapacitated and crippled. The rang can reach up to that of multiple city blocks.
Possession def ain't gonna work, he's never going to get a chance to do that, like at all, Raiden just avoids any attempts, plus the fact Raiden knows possession exists just further cements he'd be inclined to avoid it, and even if he could, Psycho Mantis' funny slop saves the day.
Is Psycho Mantis layered resistance? Because Danny's possession is 5 layers by this point.
Ghostly Wail legit ain't a big deal either; Raiden can absolutely survive at least a hit from that even if it deals massive damage due to his type 2, but moreso, he has sound resistance of over 200db in human let alone cyborg, which is only greater.
And if Dan gets so strong to where wail would actually be an option that'd win in like one hit, he's either long since worn out, or Raiden has long since cut his losses and pisses off to assassinate and stealth instead of boxing.
Its potential enough to easily one shot ghosts around his level and incapacitate them normally despite their Immortality and regeneration.
That's 100% not good enough, Raiden not only can stealth people with actual enhanced senses and clairvoyance in this key (Old Snake), like by an excessive degree, but he has built in sensors that can detect ghosts including the ghost's pov, field of view, awareness, and more.
Even if Danny actively tried looking, Raiden would always know where he'd be looking and just never be spotted or found because of it.
Never said it was, just explaining what his sensing was like.
There's a tremendous gap between Raiden's electricity and standard, his utterly eclipses electricity that can instantly ko dudes who resist it, 7 times over.
I didn't say he'd resist it... I was saying he's been electrocuted before so it should work on him. That what I meant.
Raiden doesn't have to cut him up, he can just zap him and knock him out if he doesn't require NPI.
Danny can bring up barriers that block and reflect it.
All the same, currently the only way I see this going is Danny is obnoxious enough to where Raiden doesn't fight him directly, whether it's his growing stats being a huge red flag or the constant regeneration making attacking a dead-end far as he knows, and opts for stealth when he gets that chance, or a mere zap takes him out.

There's no world where Raiden sticks around if his foe starts overtaking him in stats, he's going to quickly realize he's growing and disengage long before it ever becomes a problem and take him out when he lets his guard down, and without some sort of massive speed gap he's never hitting Raiden with anything, ever, he can't even rely on invisibility or intang because his sensors would still detect him, though that begs the question, how much energy does it take for him to heal from being sliced into a million lil bits? If he's drained after like 3 or 5, the fight isn't lasting all that long at all anyway for the growth to matter.
Depends, he can maintain constant use of his power for hours by season 3, so reforming isn't an issue, it's dependent Danny doing more, which is why I said he could "eventually" exhaust him. If Danny's wasn't time doing to much he'll tire out.
Unless the growth is like some Garou lv shit, I don't see it mattering before Raiden just reacts to it and plays around it.
He can go from Subsonic (Danny's normal speed) to FTL or higher in moments (Danny got hit by a lightspeed attack then immediately after getting up and getting serious he moved faster than said attack) depending on the situation. So it's a pretty big increase in a shot time. Though again, Danny needs to go full on serious.

If the match up requires to much variables, I don't mind calling it a mismatch at this point, I just don't think it's a simple mismatch with no discussion. Heck this is one of the most intimate depth discussions I've had on a DP match. If it's still a valid match, I'm voting Raiden by the way.
 
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Alright then

It's a sound wave that applies a powerful shockwave that physically injured individuals, resisting sound won't stop physical damage, it's left immortals incapacitated and crippled. The rang can reach up to that of multiple city blocks.
A sound wave is still a physical pressure wave, so if it injures people by shockwave force, that is still the sound doing the damage. Splitting it into "sound" on one side and "physical damage" on the other as if those are two fully separate things isn't how sound and shockwaves work.

Saying "resisting sound will not stop the physical damage" only makes sense if the resistance is very limited, like only blocking hearing-based effects, and not actual sonic pressure, vibration, or concussive force. If the resistance is to sonic attacks in a full sense, then this becomes moot. Which is why I mentioned 200db, tho of course he has other shockwave based feats at this point, I mentioned 200db in particular because even as a human that's like shockwave territory, not just "ow my ears".

Also, "it left immortals crippled" proves nothing on its own, since immortality is not the same as toughness, and that still factors in things like pain tolerance, resistance, and more and Raiden is a ********* so.... And "it can reach multiple city blocks" is range, not proof of how strong the sound itself is by itself.

This is just mixing cause, effect, and range without showing why he'd still be hurt. Saying it hurt dudes don't mean much if they have worse resistance than Raiden does after all, and if DP only uses it when he's still comparable or a bit above, that's not really gonna faze the dude who's gonna keep acting as a potato.
Is Psycho Mantis layered resistance? Because Danny's possession is 5 layers by this point.
Honestly, probably?
But the profile doesn't mention any layers for either so I'm not liable to argue that, for either of them.
But all the same, that's still never going to happen, Raiden knows possession exists, has a million radars and sensors to never be taken off guard, and is skilled enough to avoid any contact whatsoever, and if he stealth's, bro's just gone.
Its potential enough to easily one shot ghosts around his level and incapacitate them normally despite their Immortality and regeneration.
Raiden can literally fight while having his limbs torn off, heart skewered, guts ripped out, while poisoned, and explicitly nearly dead, for days.

Its potential doesn't matter if Raiden himself not only has an innate resistance to it, but has the stamina and endurance to power through it anyway even if it did mangle him, and that's all still assuming Raiden even sticks around long enough for it to even matter. Like sure you could argue it'd reach some absurd level like 2-C over time, but would the fight even last that long or would Raiden keep engaging directly long enough for that potential growth to hit a threshold he can't withstand? That's the big question and one I don't see happening for one of the two reasons above.
Never said it was, just explaining what his sensing was like.
then lil d is cooked i fear...
I didn't say he'd resist it... I was saying he's been electrocuted before so it should work on him. That what I meant.
Well, then what? If he just gets zapped right, what's there left to argue? Fight just kind of ends after the first slash gets healed and Raiden goes "aight what about this then?".
Danny can bring up barriers that block and reflect it.
How in the world would he know to?
It effectively spawns on him, and there's no second chance here, he's not going to know to keep one up because the only way he'd know Raiden has lightning is if he already used it, and if he used it, he basically 100% got hit by it, and it's also like, 15x faster than him.
Even in speed equal, Raiden's lightning is MHS+ while he himself is upscaling off MHS, so the lightning starts off just straight up a blitz above both of them.
Depends, he can maintain constant use of his power for hours by season 3, so reforming isn't an issue, it's dependent Danny doing more, which is why I said he could "eventually" exhaust him. If Danny's wasn't time doing to much he'll tire out.
That doesn't answer the question; not how long can he keep his general abilities up, but how many times can he reform from being shredded into a thin paste? Those aren't the same question.
You said it takes energy for him to heal above, so it's obviously not the same as just "staying in ghost", there's a cost to it per your own words, so how much energy does it take to come back from being shredded to lil bits, and how many times could he do so before getting worn down?
He can go from Subsonic (Danny's normal speed) to FTL or higher in moments (Danny got hit by a lightspeed attack then immediately after getting up and getting serious he moved faster than said attack) depending on the situation. So it's a pretty big increase in a shot time. Though again, Danny needs to go full on serious.
Is there a reason why you're treating that as a amp instead of him just being hit and then just, not holding back?
If the match up requires to much variables, I don't mind calling it a mismatch at this point, I just don't think it's a simple mismatch with no discussion. Heck this is one of the most intimate depth discussions I've had on a DP match.
I don't think variables is the issue, I just don't think it really works; if DP starts growing in stats Raiden is hauling ass and doing ol reliable, and unfortunately, DP doesn't have any way to prevent him from stealthing or finding him again if he does resort to that, nor does Raiden have any reason not to if he's in a situation just going all in doesn't work for him.
DP doesn't have elec res which is, just kind of odd idk I figure he would. And while DP in theory can become a huge problem statwise, there's again, zero reason Raiden would even let it get that bad.

Like the match could work for a lil bit, but pretty quickly huge caveats get revealed and the fight becomes less of a fight and more of a waiting game or puzzle.
 
A sound wave is still a physical pressure wave, so if it injures people by shockwave force, that is still the sound doing the damage. Splitting it into "sound" on one side and "physical damage" on the other as if those are two fully separate things isn't how sound and shockwaves work.
When Dan used his, it was a vibration wave that shook Amity Park and shattered glass but hurt no one, then he used it against tanks and helicopters and they got yeeted, that's why I said it can be force because the verse treats it as being able to do both, a sound wave and a physical wave.
Saying "resisting sound will not stop the physical damage" only makes sense if the resistance is very limited, like only blocking hearing-based effects, and not actual sonic pressure, vibration, or concussive force. If the resistance is to sonic attacks in a full sense, then this becomes moot. Which is why I mentioned 200db, tho of course he has other shockwave based feats at this point, I mentioned 200db in particular because even as a human that's like shockwave territory, not just "ow my ears".
Ah, makes sense, my bad.
Also, "it left immortals crippled" proves nothing on its own, since immortality is not the same as toughness, and that still factors in things like pain tolerance, resistance, and more and Raiden is a ********* so.... And "it can reach multiple city blocks" is range, not proof of how strong the sound itself is by itself.
That's what I meant, you said he could avoid it and I was talking about the coverage. Normal ghosts can survive decap, bisection, and limb loss without issue but no, I wouldn't say they have his resistance so GG I guess.
This is just mixing cause, effect, and range without showing why he'd still be hurt. Saying it hurt dudes don't mean much if they have worse resistance than Raiden does after all, and if DP only uses it when he's still comparable or a bit above, that's not really gonna faze the dude who's gonna keep acting as a potato.
Fair enough
Honestly, probably?
But the profile doesn't mention any layers for either so I'm not liable to argue that, for either of them.
But all the same, that's still never going to happen, Raiden knows possession exists, has a million radars and sensors to never be taken off guard, and is skilled enough to avoid any contact whatsoever, and if he stealth's, bro's just gone.
It's on the verse page explanation section, I need to add it to his page, will get to it. Fair enough though.
Raiden can literally fight while having his limbs torn off, heart skewered, guts ripped out, while poisoned, and explicitly nearly dead, for days.
Never denied that, I was talking about what it does to people with Immortality Type 2.
Its potential doesn't matter if Raiden himself not only has an innate resistance to it, but has the stamina and endurance to power through it anyway even if it did mangle him, and that's all still assuming Raiden even sticks around long enough for it to even matter. Like sure you could argue it'd reach some absurd level like 2-C over time, but would the fight even last that long or would Raiden keep engaging directly long enough for that potential growth to hit a threshold he can't withstand? That's the big question and one I don't see happening for one of the two reasons above.

then lil d is cooked i fear
Rip Inviso-bill then
Well, then what? If he just gets zapped right, what's there left to argue? Fight just kind of ends after the first slash gets healed and Raiden goes "aight what about this then?".

How in the world would he know to?
It effectively spawns on him, and there's no second chance here, he's not going to know to keep one up because the only way he'd know Raiden has lightning is if he already used it, and if he used it, he basically 100% got hit by it, and it's also like, 15x faster than him.
Even in speed equal, Raiden's lightning is MHS+ while he himself is upscaling off MHS, so the lightning starts off just straight up a blitz above both of them.
If it spawns on him, we wouldn't, I assumed it was like lightning to which Danny created a barrier and blocked it. Wait so Danny's lightspeed Ghost Ray is gonna blitz because it's rated as speed of light while he's Subsonic?
That doesn't answer the question; not how long can he keep his general abilities up, but how many times can he reform from being shredded into a thin paste? Those aren't the same question.
You said it takes energy for him to heal above, so it's obviously not the same as just "staying in ghost", there's a cost to it per your own words, so how much energy does it take to come back from being shredded to lil bits, and how many times could he do so before getting worn down?
Unknown, in season 2 he was transmutated and splatter into puddles, after regenerating he was seen needing to shake off the daze but got back into the fight. I was using a timer to say how long his energy goes for when actively using a power because both use energy. Don't have an exact number, just that he is wasting energy and will run out.
Is there a reason why you're treating that as a amp instead of him just being hit and then just, not holding back?
Because that's what it is. He's not that fast normally, he's Subsonic. Even characters superior to him can't react to lightning and he's been hit by it. But the verse works off emotions/drives and when Danny gets determination, angry, scared his power significantly increased, it's how all characters work which is why they got the varies rating. So when he gets blitzed and then gets serious, it's considered an amp given this has happened before, in his fight with FK he was getting blitzed and stomped, he got a pep talk, got serious and he reached FK in stats in not even a few minutes and we even see the energy build up. It's why I mentioned just being called a loser can result in a buff because it visually has.
I don't think variables is the issue, I just don't think it really works; if DP starts growing in stats Raiden is hauling ass and doing ol reliable, and unfortunately, DP doesn't have any way to prevent him from stealthing or finding him again if he does resort to that, nor does Raiden have any reason not to if he's in a situation just going all in doesn't work for him.
DP doesn't have elec res which is, just kind of odd idk I figure he would. And while DP in theory can become a huge problem statwise, there's again, zero reason Raiden would even let it get that bad.

Like the match could work for a lil bit, but pretty quickly huge caveats get revealed and the fight becomes less of a fight and more of a waiting game or puzzle.
Well alright then, if it's not working much and more of a puzzle at that point it's not very much a match in the fight sense. Guess I'll close this then. Back to the drawing board I guess.
 
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