One Piece Blue Planet Calc Revisions

[KingTempest]

Haha, thanks, just heading out to the cinema and then straight to sleep as soon as it's done.

(Damage is having fun we have a problem)

 

[EtherealCrater]

Hard Disagree. The panel of Alabasta very clearly shows waves even at the farthest edge of the panels which is completely impossible for the Calm Belt to have. The link also contains an image showing that waves completely cease to be within the Calm Belt. The panel being used is in fact a lowball value.

Even alternate ways of finding the diameter of the planet is quite consistent. Vivi states that the Sandora River is 50 km, and we can see the other side meaning that the distance to the horizon is also 50 km. Using an average viewing height of 1.6 m gives us a planet diameter of 1,562,500 km. The one from the pixel calc is 1,576,323 km. That is a difference of 0.009%, the evidence is way too consistent to remove the calc.

 

[Floxy178]

Following.

 

[Fwflygon]

I won't really get into the argumentative aspect of the stuff here, but I did want to mention that Marco states there are at least 10 million to 20 million islands in the world.
idk if it changes things, but I think it's important to consider.

 

[Damage3245]

I won't really get into the argumentative aspect of the stuff here, but I did want to mention that Marco states there are at least 10 million to 20 million islands in the world.
idk if it changes things, but I think it's important to consider.

It isn't relevant to the calc specifically, but thanks for mentioning it.


EDIT: May not be able to get my next full post until tomorrow.

 

[KingTempest]

I won't really get into the argumentative aspect of the stuff here, but I did want to mention that Marco states there are at least 10 million to 20 million islands in the world.
idk if it changes things, but I think it's important to consider.

It isn't relevant to the calc specifically, but thanks for mentioning it.

it actually kinda does, but not in any way that matters regarding this specific calculation

 

[M3X_2.0]

Just to make it clear: I don’t read One Piece, and I don’t plan to do so. So I won’t tackle anything from the arguments here, but I want to talk about something else.

Since when did we normalize a Earth-like planet being over 1.5 million kilometers in diameter? The gravity would be 1154 m/s^2, a 80kg human would weight 94 tons. The atmospheric pressure would be equal to 11.920 kPa, any human would’ve been crushed. Liquid water wouldn’t be possible, the escape velocity would be 121.5 km/s trapping every heavy gas and making the atmospheric composition completely different from what we see. The Moon being inhabited and visitable makes zero sense at this scale, the gravitational dominance of the planet would push any stable natural satellite way further out than what’s portrayed. The Red Line existing as a stable solid geological formation is impossible too, because the internal pressure at the core would be around 5 billion GPa, meaning the interior would be fluid or degenerate matter, not solid rock.

On top of all that, a planet this size wouldn’t even be a rocky planet to begin with. At 1.5 million kilometers in diameter, larger than the Sun itself, gravitational accretion during formation would inevitably capture massive amounts of hydrogen and helium, making it a gas giant at minimum.

Depending on total mass, it could even cross the threshold into brown dwarf or stellar territory. This planet being this big is simply not physically coherent at any level.

And it’s not even like the planet being this big comes from canon sources like the manga or Oda himself, it comes from a third party calculation that doesn’t take into consideration any of the physical implications I listed above. If the calc itself produces a result that directly contradicts observable in-universe reality at every level, that’s a good reason to question the calc, not to accept the contradictions as valid.

 

[KingTempest]

Just to make it clear: I don’t read One Piece, and I don’t plan to do so. So I won’t tackle anything from the arguments here, but I want to talk about something else.

Since when did we normalize a Earth-like planet being over 1.5 million kilometers in diameter? The gravity would be 1154 m/s^2, a 80kg human would weight 94 tons. The atmospheric pressure would be equal to 11.920 kPa, any human would’ve been crushed. Liquid water wouldn’t be possible, the escape velocity would be 121.5 km/s trapping every heavy gas and making the atmospheric composition completely different from what we see. The Moon being inhabited and visitable makes zero sense at this scale, the gravitational dominance of the planet would push any stable natural satellite way further out than what’s portrayed. The Red Line existing as a stable solid geological formation is impossible too, because the internal pressure at the core would be around 5 billion GPa, meaning the interior would be fluid or degenerate matter, not solid rock.

On top of all that, a planet this size wouldn’t even be a rocky planet to begin with. At 1.5 million kilometers in diameter, larger than the Sun itself, gravitational accretion during formation would inevitably capture massive amounts of hydrogen and helium, making it a gas giant at minimum.

Depending on total mass, it could even cross the threshold into brown dwarf or stellar territory. This planet being this big is simply not physically coherent at any level.

And it’s not even like the planet being this big comes from canon sources like the manga or Oda himself, it comes from a third party calculation that doesn’t take into consideration any of the physical implications I listed above. If the calc itself produces a result that directly contradicts observable in-universe reality at every level, that’s a good reason to question the calc, not to accept the contradictions as valid.

We spoke offsite about this but just to reiterate

You honestly need to make a site wide thread about this before this point is something that genuinely holds weight in the thread.
DBZ has a planet the size of the observable universe and it's perfectly fine. Toriko has a planet with the GBE of the solar system. These arguments never came up for them and they have it worse.
Do you know how many landmasses on the wiki have "infinite mass" and not infinite gravity shown?

When the planet size first came into play, every CGM with a breath said "we can keep it big but recognize that it's just fiction showcasing earth like effects so we have to ignore the upgrades and such like higher gravity and escape velocity". Now the point is apparently "it needs to be scientific accurate"?

There were initial rules on what quantified something as a bigger planet. We qualified for it. Now it needs to be scientifically accurate?

That's just a cop out respectfully.

Now I'm not knocking the whole thing and if you want to make a thread with the premise go ahead, but it's like... we really minimizing big planets... because they're too big for our liking?

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

We spoke offsite about this but just to reiterate

You honestly need to make a site wide thread about this before this point is something that genuinely holds weight in the thread.
DBZ has a planet the size of the observable universe and it's perfectly fine. Toriko has a planet with the GBE of the solar system. These arguments never came up for them and they have it worse.
Do you know how many landmasses on the wiki have "infinite mass" and not infinite gravity shown?

When the planet size first came into play, every CGM with a breath said "we can keep it big but recognize that it's just fiction showcasing earth like effects so we have to ignore the upgrades and such like higher gravity and escape velocity". Now the point is apparently "it needs to be scientific accurate"?

There were initial rules on what quantified something as a bigger planet. We qualified for it. Now it needs to be scientifically accurate?

That's just a cop out respectfully.

Now I'm not knocking the whole thing and if you want to make a thread with the premise go ahead, but it's like... we really minimizing big planets... because they're too big for our liking?

I cant speak on DBZ, but im not sure why you're bringing Toriko into this, that series has actual statements backing up the planet size and GBE unlike OP which relies on a fan calc.

 

[KingTempest]

I cant speak on DBZ, but im not sure why you're bringing Toriko into this, that series has actual statements backing up the planet size and GBE unlike OP which relies on a fan calc.

it has a statement bout how big it is and there's no gravity issues lying there regarding it.

if a planet had a statement of being the size of the milky way would it be fine because there's a statement for it?

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

it has a statement bout how big it is and there's no gravity issues lying there regarding it.

if a planet had a statement of being the size of the milky way would it be fine because there's a statement for it?

Yes, if there's an author statement then it would be fine. That's what Mex also mentioned above in his comment.

 

[Osemere]

DBZ has a planet the size of the observable universe and it's perfectly fine. Toriko has a planet with the GBE of the solar system. These arguments never came up for them and they have it worse.

At least with the DBZ example, the universe-sized planet isn’t actually considered to be worth anything in the verse statistics since those who would scale to it are already considered to affect an entire infinite universe. It isn’t applying real world science to it unlike this case.

 

[KingTempest]

Yes, if there's an author statement then it would be fine. That's what Mex also mentioned above in his comment.

what does the difference between an author statement of gargantuability and a visual showing of it do for anybody?
there's an area of size that's the size of the moon in diameter and it's literally a dot on the planet. why does a statement of overarching size make another series more exempt to the rules of physics than something that shows it's big as shit?

why do we knock fancalcs on a site where that's all we do

 

[Kachon123]

At least with the DBZ example, the universe-sized planet isn’t actually considered to be worth anything in the verse statistics since those who would scale to it are already considered to affect an entire infinite universe. It isn’t applying real world science to it unlike this case.

The planet's size being used to scale characters is completely irrelevant to what mex is talking about. According to him, that planet shouldn't be physically possible at all. But alas, it's fiction and shit like this can work.

 

[M3X_2.0]

We spoke offsite about this but just to reiterate

You honestly need to make a site wide thread about this before this point is something that genuinely holds weight in the thread.
DBZ has a planet the size of the observable universe and it's perfectly fine. Toriko has a planet with the GBE of the solar system. These arguments never came up for them and they have it worse.
Do you know how many landmasses on the wiki have "infinite mass" and not infinite gravity shown?

When the planet size first came into play, every CGM with a breath said "we can keep it big but recognize that it's just fiction showcasing earth like effects so we have to ignore the upgrades and such like higher gravity and escape velocity". Now the point is apparently "it needs to be scientific accurate"?

There were initial rules on what quantified something as a bigger planet. We qualified for it. Now it needs to be scientifically accurate?

That's just a cop out respectfully.

Now I'm not knocking the whole thing and if you want to make a thread with the premise go ahead, but it's like... we really minimizing big planets... because they're too big for our liking?

Whether or not other verses have similar issues is irrelevant, two wrongs don’t make a right. Toriko actually weakens your comparison rather than supporting it, because in that case the author explicitly established the planet is bigger and chose to ignore the physical implications, that’s a conscious authorial decision. Oda never said anything about the One Piece planet’s size in numbers, so you don’t even have that justification here. The size comes entirely from a third party calc he never acknowledged.

The point still stands regardless of what the size is being used for. If you’re using the planet’s physical size as the basis for calculating feats, you’re appealing to real physics to get your numbers. You can’t selectively apply physics when it produces useful results and then dismiss it when the same physics produces inconvenient implications like the gravity, pressure and composition issues. That’s internally inconsistent.

 

[Osemere]

The planet's size being used to scale characters is completely irrelevant to what mex is talking about. According to him, that planet shouldn't be physically possible at all. But alas, it's fiction and shit like this can work.

That seems to be a strawman. It’s not that it’s whatsoever physically impossible with whatever weird possible set of physics you might have, it’s that if you accept these weird laws of physics to have that planet in the first place, it’s harder to appeal to already accepted scientific information to use that planet-size for other things. DBZ is disanalogous since we don’t use the universe-scale planet for anything.

And we already do this, anyway.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Just to make it clear of what I’m talking about, because people are using my words wrongly: I said that a planet size derived from third party calculations not acknowledged by the authors means it’s unreliable because physically it simply wouldn’t make any sense with the setting, considering the huge gravity, pressure and whatnot would affect everyone, yet people ignore these points and selectively use what they want like the sheer size to calc earthquake feats.

Toriko is a whole different situation because the size comes from the manga itself, and if the author decided to ignore the side effects, then it simply can’t be used as a counter argument.

As for DBZ, I don’t know anything about it so I won’t comment.

This obviously requires a staff thread so I believe we should leave that for the upcoming thread.

 

[EtherealCrater]

Whether or not other verses have similar issues is irrelevant, two wrongs don’t make a right. Toriko actually weakens your comparison rather than supporting it, because in that case the author explicitly established the planet is bigger and chose to ignore the physical implications, that’s a conscious authorial decision. Oda never said anything about the One Piece planet’s size in numbers, so you don’t even have that justification here. The size comes entirely from a third party calc he never acknowledged.

The point still stands regardless of what the size is being used for. If you’re using the planet’s physical size as the basis for calculating feats, you’re appealing to real physics to get your numbers. You can’t selectively apply physics when it produces useful results and then dismiss it when the same physics produces inconvenient implications like the gravity, pressure and composition issues. That’s internally inconsistent.

We already ignore certain physics in other aspects, which is why we don't have every LS character with Infinite AP. Fact of the matter is, VSBW actively admits to ignoring physics in favor of scaling that is consistent with what is shown on screen.

If we're going to be consistent, we need to put EVERY LS character at High Universal because physics says that's what they should be.

 

[M3X_2.0]

We already ignore certain physics in other aspects, which is why we don't have every LS character with Infinite AP. Fact of the matter is, VSBW actively admits to ignoring physics in favor of scaling that is consistent with what is shown on screen.

If we're going to be consistent, we need to put EVERY LS character at High Universal because physics says that's what they should be.

That’s a false equivalence. We ignore physics in cases where applying them would contradict what characters actually demonstrate in the source material. Lightspeed characters aren’t scaled to infinite AP because nothing in their respective series suggests they should be that powerful, so we don’t apply that physics. The One Piece planet size is the opposite situation: we’re actively using the physics to derive a number for calculations, which means you’re already appealing to physics to get your result. You can’t invoke physics to calculate the size and then dismiss physics when it produces inconvenient implications. That’s the inconsistency.

 

[KingTempest]

Whether or not other verses have similar issues is irrelevant, two wrongs don’t make a right. Toriko actually weakens your comparison rather than supporting it, because in that case the author explicitly established the planet is bigger and chose to ignore the physical implications, that’s a conscious authorial decision. Oda never said anything about the One Piece planet’s size in numbers, so you don’t even have that justification here. The size comes entirely from a third party calc he never acknowledged.

If an author says something about a 8000 kilometer nation that is the equivalent to a speck of dust on a planet, are we going to say "well he didn't give an exact planet size so we can't measure it"?
Like what is this argument?
It's not even like it's implied to be earth like and it's being calced to be big.
It's shown to be big as shit and it's calced to be big as shit.
Like it's literally a 2 step calc based on a ridiculous size he gave, the area of that size, and the rest of the globe.
You're acting like we manufactured the number, we literally used his measurements and got something big.

If 2 people are calcing the size of earth, 1 gets the exact dimensions of a country on it and 1 gets a statement about its planets size, why is one now not valid and the other is? I understand more valid, but not valid at all?
Why does it need statements of exact sizes as if statements about exact sizes can't contradict physics?

Your entire point is that "it shouldn't physically exist according to physics" and your excuse for those that do are "well it has exact statements" as if "exact statements" justify inconsistency.

The point still stands regardless of what the size is being used for. If you’re using the planet’s physical size as the basis for calculating feats, you’re appealing to real physics to get your numbers. You can’t selectively apply physics when it produces useful results and then dismiss it when the same physics produces inconvenient implications like the gravity, pressure and composition issues. That’s internally inconsistent.

We're on a wiki where we selectively apply physics all the time.
This is one of the more consistent ones, we calc big planet, we use distances of the big planet on the big planet.
Why are you acting like this is something we're using in order to calculate the gravitational binding energy of the shit.
We see a planet a lot bigger than earth use earth like qualities and the agreement from other staff was "use the size but not any of the other physics in order to upscale feats".

We cut out every perc of the shit. Why are we acting like we're adding more

 

[M3X_2.0]

If an author says something about a 8000 kilometer nation that is the equivalent to a speck of dust on a planet, are we going to say "well he didn't give an exact planet size so we can't measure it"?
Like what is this argument?
It's not even like it's implied to be earth like and it's being calced to be big.
It's shown to be big as shit and it's calced to be big as shit.
Like it's literally a 2 step calc based on a ridiculous size he gave, the area of that size, and the rest of the globe.
You're acting like we manufactured the number, we literally used his measurements and got something big.

If 2 people are calcing the size of earth, 1 gets the exact dimensions of a country on it and 1 gets a statement about its planets size, why is one now not valid and the other is? I understand more valid, but not valid at all?
Why does it need statements of exact sizes as if statements about exact sizes can't contradict physics?

Your entire point is that "it shouldn't physically exist according to physics" and your excuse for those that do are "well it has exact statements" as if "exact statements" justify inconsistency.

We're on a wiki where we selectively apply physics all the time.
This is one of the more consistent ones, we calc big planet, we use distances of the big planet on the big planet.
Why are you acting like this is something we're using in order to calculate the gravitational binding energy of the shit.
We see a planet a lot bigger than earth use earth like qualities and the agreement from other staff was "use the size but not any of the other physics in order to upscale feats".

We cut out every perc of the shit. Why are we acting like we're adding more

The argument about the 8000 kilometer nation completely misses the point. Nobody is saying the calc manufactured the number or that using in-universe measurements is invalid. The issue is that the result of that calc produces a planet that is physically incompatible with everything the series portrays, larger than the Sun itself, and then that same result is used as a foundation for calculating feats. If two people calc the size of Earth and one gets a result where humans would be crushed by 117g of gravity, atmospheric pressure equivalent to being 1170 meters underwater, and oceans physically couldn’t exist, yeah, that result should be questioned regardless of how it was obtained. The method being simple doesn’t make the output valid.

The “shown to be big as shit” point doesn’t hold either. The series shows an Earth-like planet with normal human life, normal oceans, normal weather and normal gravity. Nothing in the manga suggests a planet larger than the Sun. The calc produced that number, the manga didn’t show it. Those are different things and conflating them doesn’t make the argument stronger.

On the Toriko comparison, the difference isn’t about exact statements versus calcs, it’s about authorial intent. When an author explicitly establishes something about their world, even if it contradicts physics, that’s a creative decision we respect. When a third party calc produces a physically absurd result that the author never acknowledged and that contradicts the series own portrayal, that’s not the same category of evidence. Saying “exact statements can contradict physics too” is true but irrelevant, because at least then we know the author intended it.

And the “we selectively apply physics all the time” point is exactly what I’ve been addressing, but the distinction keeps getting ignored. We ignore physics when applying them would go against what the series shows. We don’t get to ignore physics when we’re actively using them to derive numbers for calculations. You’re using the planet’s physical size, a measurement grounded in real physics and geometry, to calculate feats. At that point you’ve already decided physics applies here. You don’t get to then say “but not those physics” when the same framework produces uncomfortable implications. That’s not selective application, that’s just picking what’s convenient and discarding what isn’t.

The staff agreement to “use the size but ignore the other physics” doesn’t make the approach consistent. It just means the inconsistency was collectively agreed upon. Those are two very different things, and dressing up an inconsistency as a policy doesn’t make it less of an inconsistency.

At the end of the day the argument keeps shifting. First it was “other verses have it worse”, then it was “the author showed it”, then it was “we always ignore physics anyway”, then it was “the calc is simple so it must be fine”. None of these actually address the core point, which is that you’re grounding calculations in physical measurements while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge the physical reality those measurements imply. If the framework is only valid when it produces numbers you like, it’s not really a framework, it’s just a conclusion you decided on first.

 

[Fwflygon]

This is the current accepted Calc for the size of blue planet in One Piece.

However, there is one big problem with it. This is the panel used to scale the size of the grandline. The blog compares the size of Alabasta to the height of the panel to get the width of the grandline. But in doing this, it assumes the entire height of the panel is contained within the width of the grandline. This assumption has no backing to it, and the panel could very easily contain parts of the calm belt and even beyond.

“But then why don’t we see any other islands?”​

With the scale of Alabasta and the amount that the panel is zoomed out each and every pixel contains an area of over 227km by 227km. There is not even a single accepted island size in one piece that even gets to a NINTH of that area. On top of the fact that Alabasta could very easily be one of the islands near the edge of the grandline

The result of the calc can be considered a little inconsistent as well. Pre-timeskip one piece takes place of a period of less than a year, and they travel the distance from reverse mountain to sabaody by boat, almost halfway circumnavigating the planet. Assuming it took them exactly a year, and not counting the time they take on islands, they would have to be sailing at over 250kmph. And this would be a lowball considering all of the time not sailing, the fact they likely didn’t just sail in a straight line, and the time spent pre-timeskip not in the grandline. While I don’t expect everything in one piece to follow real world logic exactly, including boats, the implication of the going merry and sunny going at speeds much faster than 250km from an already flawed calc just adds further justification for why the current method should be revised.

That’s not the only faulty calc within that blog though. That blog also contains a calc for the size of the one piece moon, and this one is much more faulty. This is the scan used in the blog to scale the size of the moon. A few issues with this. The first and most glaring one is that the scale of the panel is completely off. The currents on reverse mountain are large in comparison to the planet itself. Keep in mind this is how large the currents on reverse mountain are consistently shown to be. Scaling off of this panel would get the entire planet about the size of a city. The second issue with using this scan to scale the moon, or anything in fact, is that it is completely non-canon. This scan comes from an adaptation of the Zoro vs Mihawk fight from Boichi. This is what our canon page says about adaptations:





The only actual input oda had on the oneshot itself was him stating that he would like to see Zoro in Boichi’s style. There is nothing pointing to it being considered a real part of the continuity from the creator himself, or any rights holders.

This is a problem that was actually brought up in the original thread where the first calc method was accepted and was generally agreed upon and initially agreed upon from the blog creator themself.




It was later accepted to be used in the first place on the basis of there being nothing better to use, and because it was considered tertiary canon and able to be used in absence of contradictions. which I find extremely weak reasoning.




Just because there’s nothing better to use, doesn’t mean we should just start resorting to non-canon and inconsistent sources, and it quite literally does contradict primary canon, which I shouldn’t need to re-demonstrate.

My proposal is to remove the current moon size calc and planet size calc.

Here is a list of calcs affected:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/One_Piece:_Space_Pirates_Excavation

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/One_Piece:_Mag_6_Worldwide_Quake

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...iece:_Blackbeard_Does_This_for_the_Fifth_Time

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/One_Piece:_The_Mother_Flame


Agreeamage3245

Neutral:

Disagree:

I'm going to be honest, these are not good arguments. So I break down piece by piece (it terms of the planet size. The moon, for me idk I won't cover that.)

However, there is one big problem with it. This is the panel used to scale the size of the grandline. The blog compares the size of Alabasta to the height of the panel to get the width of the grandline. But in doing this, it assumes the entire height of the panel is contained within the width of the grandline. This assumption has no backing to it, and the panel could very easily contain parts of the calm belt and even beyond.

The problem here is assumptions. The reason is specifically that the size of the Grand Line is to have a middle ground. As it can be argued to be bigger and smaller by both sizes. With this, it also allows both parties to have a meeting point, so that there is no backing to the claim, nor is it beyond the Grand Line or one part of the Grand Line.
Unless you have clear evidence of it being part of the Calm Belt or beyond the Grand Line, this claim should be disregarded.

“But then why don’t we see any other islands?”


With the scale of Alabasta and the amount that the panel is zoomed out each and every pixel contains an area of over 227km by 227km. There is not even a single accepted island size in one piece that even gets to a NINTH of that area.

The reason is that an ACCEPTED calc can not match Alabasta for two reasons.

1. Alabasta is the BEST island Calc One Piece has because of other islands relying on digrams or difficult pixel scaling. With Alabasta, it has a clear statement of the river's diameter since we have a top-down view of the island, and it can be easily calculated that the size of the island is. Whereas other islands don't really have a good landmark statement or consistent calculations.

2. One-piece islands could be bigger. As they are often low-balled for safe reasons, given that we don't have specific statements. The only islands that could be bigger than Alabasta is Wano and Elbaph.

On top of the fact that Alabasta could very easily be one of the islands near the edge of the grandline

Yes, this is true; however, that would imply the grand line is larger, which contradicts your main claim unless you say it goes through the Calm Belt. But at that point, we should be able to see at least one other island as there are six other paths in the Grand Line, with each having an island. I would say this argument as a whole could be stronger on both sides if we saw other islands.

The result of the calc can be considered a little inconsistent as well. Pre-timeskip one piece takes place of a period of less than a year, and they travel the distance from reverse mountain to sabaody by boat, almost halfway circumnavigating the planet. Assuming it took them exactly a year, and not counting the time they take on islands, they would have to be sailing at over 250kmph. And this would be a lowball considering all of the time not sailing, the fact they likely didn’t just sail in a straight line, and the time spent pre-timeskip not in the grandline. While I don’t expect everything in one piece to follow real world logic exactly, including boats, the implication of the going merry and sunny going at speeds much faster than 250km from an already flawed calc just adds further justification for why the current method should be revised.

Yes, I would agree that 250 Kmph is wild. However, considering that there is a statement of being 10 million islands at the low end, and some aspects of One Piece don't follow logic that well. Also, we don't know the speed of the boat, and to support the claim, Oda didn't even give the speed of the sea train that travels from the island to internally make it vague (he is known to do that)

Just to make it clear: I don’t read One Piece, and I don’t plan to do so. So I won’t tackle anything from the arguments here, but I want to talk about something else.

Since when did we normalize a Earth-like planet being over 1.5 million kilometers in diameter? The gravity would be 1154 m/s^2, a 80kg human would weight 94 tons. The atmospheric pressure would be equal to 11.920 kPa, any human would’ve been crushed. Liquid water wouldn’t be possible, the escape velocity would be 121.5 km/s trapping every heavy gas and making the atmospheric composition completely different from what we see. The Moon being inhabited and visitable makes zero sense at this scale, the gravitational dominance of the planet would push any stable natural satellite way further out than what’s portrayed. The Red Line existing as a stable solid geological formation is impossible too, because the internal pressure at the core would be around 5 billion GPa, meaning the interior would be fluid or degenerate matter, not solid rock.

On top of all that, a planet this size wouldn’t even be a rocky planet to begin with. At 1.5 million kilometers in diameter, larger than the Sun itself, gravitational accretion during formation would inevitably capture massive amounts of hydrogen and helium, making it a gas giant at minimum.

Depending on total mass, it could even cross the threshold into brown dwarf or stellar territory. This planet being this big is simply not physically coherent at any level.

And it’s not even like the planet being this big comes from canon sources like the manga or Oda himself, it comes from a third party calculation that doesn’t take into consideration any of the physical implications I listed above. If the calc itself produces a result that directly contradicts observable in-universe reality at every level, that’s a good reason to question the calc, not to accept the contradictions as valid.

I would agree that gravity is a main issue that needs to be addressed; however, the problem in this argument is the fact that there are abnormalities in the One Piece world. This includes the ten million island statement (for reference, the real world has 600,000 to 900,000). The fact that the planet is split into six seas, MOSTLY made of water, with a red line going around the planet.
ten millions island, with some being the size of continents, is insane.
This alone should imply that a one-piece planet should be bigger than Earth, not have the same physics as it. AS it is IMPLYIED in the story.

What about physics? In one piece, there are several examples of physical anomalies, like constantly changing weather on a whim, Bege getting pulled into a island, Characters moving faster than light, there is also a whole underground world that we don't even know about (in cover story), also the fact that there are other sub universes in one piece, like the abyssal world. (If you include film red, the music world)

I would agree the calc is huge, but unless you have a counter calc or a better way to calculate, I don't think we can remove this calculation unless we have a replacement. As the calcs are necessary to keep the verse consistent and viable, to understand how powerful the verse is.
And if you do have time M3X_2.0 I recommend you give one piece of a watch or read.



In conclusion, I think most of the arguments don't have a solution or have issues with other parts of the verse. The earthquakes and Wano calcs, which had understandable inconsistencies in the verse.
In this thread, I don't think there is any.
One piece has a simple mid ball of the planet size, with some proof that it could be larger. The calc itself has some assumptions, but honestly, saying the entire Grand Line is the safest in my opinion, as it's the middle.

If people want to change it, they will have to get a better method that could replace the one piece planet size as those earthquake calculations are vital to the verse, and its scaling.

Peace out Fly.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I would agree that gravity is a main issue that needs to be addressed; however, the problem in this argument is the fact that there are abnormalities in the One Piece world. This includes the ten million island statement (for reference, the real world has 600,000 to 900,000). The fact that the planet is split into six seas, MOSTLY made of water, with a red line going around the planet.
ten millions island, with some being the size of continents, is insane.
This alone should imply that a one-piece planet should be bigger than Earth, not have the same physics as it. AS it is IMPLYIED in the story.

What about physics? In one piece, there are several examples of physical anomalies, like constantly changing weather on a whim, Bege getting pulled into a island, Characters moving faster than light, there is also a whole underground world that we don't even know about (in cover story), also the fact that there are other sub universes in one piece, like the abyssal world. (If you include film red, the music world)

I would agree the calc is huge, but unless you have a counter calc or a better way to calculate, I don't think we can remove this calculation unless we have a replacement. As the calcs are necessary to keep the verse consistent and viable, to understand how powerful the verse is.

Just to clarify since this seems to be a recurring misunderstanding, I never argued the One Piece planet is the same size as Earth. A planet larger than Earth is completely reasonable given everything the series implies, the ten million islands alone is a good indicator of that. My argument is specifically against the planet being larger than the Sun itself, which is what the current calc produces. That’s the number that creates all the physical contradictions I listed, not the premise of a bigger planet in general.

On the physical anomalies, yes, One Piece has plenty of them, but there’s a difference between anomalies that are explicitly shown and established in the story versus anomalies we’re inventing to justify a calc result. Weather changing on a whim, Bege’s ability, the underground world, these are all things the series deliberately depicts. Nobody in the series depicts humans surviving 117 times Earth’s gravity or atmospheric pressure equivalent to being kilometers underwater. We’re not respecting an authorial decision there, we’re creating a new one to patch a problem the calc introduced.

The “no counter calc means we keep it” point is also wrong. A bad calc isn’t made valid by the absence of a better one. If anything, that’s an argument for treating the current result with more skepticism while a proper replacement is worked out, not for cementing it as gospel. Using an unreliable size as the foundation for everything else in the verse doesn’t make the verse consistent, it just propagates the same problem through every calc that depends on it.

 

[Damage3245]

All I'll say about the "10 million islands" statement is that it is an in-Universe statement from junior pirate Marco who isn't exactly a knowledgeable authority so far as we know. He didn't count the islands himself and we don't know who told him this. All he's doing is passing on what seems like hearsay. On top of that we know that there are 170 nations in the World Government and unlikely to be significant numbers of nations outside of the World Government since the WG is implied to represent a majority of the planet and encompass the entire globe; which is all to say that we have no reason to suspect these "millions of islands" are significantly large in any way (as if these were settled islands for example they'd have to be large enough to support human life). It would be a bit unusual for there to be like 200+ inhabited islands on the planet and 9,999,800+ unpopulated islands of comparable size interspersed between them.

 

[Schattenbach]

I won't really get into the argumentative aspect of the stuff here, but I did want to mention that Marco states there are at least 10 million to 20 million islands in the world.
idk if it changes things, but I think it's important to consider.

With modern day earth only having around 900+ thousand islands or so (at least within known countries, no idea about international waters), but multiple continents of variable but often considerable size, 10 to 20 million islands of variable size doesn't seem like extremely much if One Piece has no large continents beside the Red Line. No idea about how much surface area the Red Line actually has (or how broad it is), though. I would assume that the Blues have no random magnetic or weather anomalies and thus more space for normal island pacing (who knows)?

 

[EtherealCrater]

Nobody in the series depicts humans surviving 117 times Earth’s gravity or atmospheric pressure equivalent to being kilometers underwater. We’re not respecting an authorial decision there, we’re creating a new one to patch a problem the calc introduced.

The gap you're trying to portray is FAR smaller in actuality. The surface gravity of Earth is 1 g and the Sun's is only 28 gs. Even regular people in the world of One Piece are far beyond the capabilities of Earth humans.

Momo can cut Kanjuro, somebody who's durability is well beyond what a normal person should be able to harm. Even Building level would be impossible for a kid to even scratch, yet he does.

Otama kicks Holdem, again a literal child who is not portrayed to be special at all damages someone that is far beyond a normal human.

Knock Up Stream Blasts Jaya into Skypiea, AGAIN REGULAR PEOPLE are surviving the ground their standing on blasted 10 km into the sky at supersonic speeds with minor injuries.

There's Fishmen being 10x stronger than humans, yet a 10x difference wouldn't allow Fishmen to flip buildings. This heavily implies that the average human is far higher than Earth humans.

The average person on Blue is regularly portrayed to be far beyond the limits of normal humans.

 

[M3X_2.0]

The gap you're trying to portray is FAR smaller in actuality. The surface gravity of Earth is 1 g and the Sun's is only 28 gs. Even regular people in the world of One Piece are far beyond the capabilities of Earth humans.

Momo can cut Kanjuro, somebody who's durability is well beyond what a normal person should be able to harm. Even Building level would be impossible for a kid to even scratch, yet he does.

Otama kicks Holdem, again a literal child who is not portrayed to be special at all damages someone that is far beyond a normal human.

Knock Up Stream Blasts Jaya into Skypiea, AGAIN REGULAR PEOPLE are surviving the ground their standing on blasted 10 km into the sky at supersonic speeds with minor injuries.

There's Fishmen being 10x stronger than humans, yet a 10x difference wouldn't allow Fishmen to flip buildings. This heavily implies that the average human is far higher than Earth humans.

The average person on Blue is regularly portrayed to be far beyond the limits of normal humans.

You’re conflating two separate arguments. The point was never that One Piece humans have the same physical limits as real humans, obviously they don’t, the series makes that clear constantly. The point is that the series portrays Earth-like environmental conditions, not Earth-like human fragility.

The gravity argument isn’t about whether characters can survive 117g, it’s about whether the environment itself is consistent with 117g. At that gravity, the atmosphere would be crushed into an unbreathable dense layer, liquid oceans couldn’t exist on the surface, and the planet would have formed as a gas giant in the first place. None of that has anything to do with how tough Momo or Otama are. You can have superhuman characters and still have a physically coherent environment. One Piece clearly has the former but the calc implies the latter is completely broken in ways the series never depicts or acknowledges.

Yes, the Sun’s surface gravity is 28g despite its size, but gravity depends on both mass and radius together, not just size. A planet with Earth-like density at 1.5 million km in diameter would have 117g, not 28g. The Sun is mostly low density plasma, not a rocky Earth-like planet. These are completely different objects and pretending the comparison is valid doesn’t make it so. At some point you have to ask whether the goal here is actually engaging with the physics or just throwing things at the wall until something sticks.

 

[EtherealCrater]

All I'll say about the "10 million islands" statement is that it is an in-Universe statement from junior pirate Marco who isn't exactly a knowledgeable authority so far as we know. He didn't count the islands himself and we don't know who told him this. All he's doing is passing on what seems like hearsay. On top of that we know that there are 170 nations in the World Government and unlikely to be significant numbers of nations outside of the World Government since the WG is implied to represent a majority of the planet and encompass the entire globe; which is all to say that we have no reason to suspect these "millions of islands" are significantly large in any way (as if these were settled islands for example they'd have to be large enough to support human life). It would be a bit unusual for there to be like 200+ inhabited islands on the planet and 9,999,800+ unpopulated islands of comparable size interspersed between them.

Marco ever since he was a child studied navigation, which inherently requires extensive geographical knowledge. This is the exact opposite of an unreliable source.

Governments rule over people not land, even if these uninhabited islands were as big as Alabasta it'd be irrelevant. Antarctica is comparable to Alabasta in size yet has no permanent residents nor does it have a residing government that rules over it.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I'll probably not respond to this thread anymore since I've written down my issues in a calc group only thread. Anyone who participated from this thread here has my permission to make at least one comment there, probably more if needed.

Proposed Rules for Calcing Planet Sizes (CGM Only)

The Problem This is something that has been bugging me for a while and I think we need a site-wide discussion about it. The current approach to planet size calculations is inconsistent and I want to propose a clear framework to fix that. Right now we have verses where planet sizes are derived...

vsbattles.com

 

[Schattenbach]

All I'll say about the "10 million islands" statement is that it is an in-Universe statement from junior pirate Marco who isn't exactly a knowledgeable authority so far as we know. He didn't count the islands himself and we don't know who told him this. All he's doing is passing on what seems like hearsay. On top of that we know that there are 170 nations in the World Government and unlikely to be significant numbers of nations outside of the World Government since the WG is implied to represent a majority of the planet and encompass the entire globe; which is all to say that we have no reason to suspect these "millions of islands" are significantly large in any way (as if these were settled islands for example they'd have to be large enough to support human life). It would be a bit unusual for there to be like 200+ inhabited islands on the planet and 9,999,800+ unpopulated islands of comparable size interspersed between them.

One could use offical real world statistics as reference. The list of islands by country lists the islands by country (and separately also for most the number of inhabited islands), so one could simply sum them up and compare the ratio. Or search some studies that looked into that.

Anyway, earth apparently only has 332 islands with 1000km² (edit: or higher), so what counts as island seems extremely loose even by real world standards, so "creating islands" using existing landmass seems reasonably easy.

Asia-sized (with 30% of land earth surface area) area hacked into 20km² islands = (44000000squarekilometer)/(20squarekilometer) = 2200000 Islands.

Smaller and bigger islands obviously change that number.

Asia-sized (with 30% of land earth surface area) area hacked into 5km² islands

(44000000squarekilometer)/(5squarekilometer ) = 8800000 Islands (obviosuly)

Asia-sized (with 30% land of earth surface area) area hacked into 2km² islands

(44000000squarekilometer)/(2squarekilometer ) = 22 000 000 (also obviosuly, though hardly worthy to even put on the regional map)

Repeating that process often enough, now one has ~10 million to ~20 million islands.

20km² is big enough to place some tiny fishing town or one or multiple villages there. Still needs some water in between to actually be considered as island.

All I’m saying is (as per my comment above) that this number isn’t extremely much.

edit: fixed typo

 

[MrTayman616]

If we take the statement reliable but unknown for sizes, Assuming average island size for those unknowns, which wouldn't be higher than 100km^2 (Bigger islands carries the average here) then saying it'd only cover 1/4 of the surface with the rest being water, the radius of the planet would be: sqr((100x10000000*4)/(4*pi)) = 17841.2411615 km

so around 36k for diameter. (should be higher considering the known islands, or using not 10m but 15 or 20 etc.

 

[Damage3245]

I think I should wait to see what this soon to be proposed re-calc apparently is.

 

[KingTempest]

I think I should wait to see what this soon to be proposed re-calc apparently is.

It's the same calc as before it's just at an angle because the width of the grand line from paradise isn't from north to south it's from northeast to southwest
Plus some other shit

 

[KingTempest]

The recalc does nothing but make it bigger based on the same exact scans and some more shit.
The OP disagrees based on baseless things like "there's no center".

He doesn't understand the island climate zones, the fact that Alabasta is in the middle trail and couldn't hit the sides, the fact that the other islands close to it are in snowy climates, etc.

A complaint from ridiculousness.

 

[Billybobjoe321]

Alabasta is known as a large island to the point where it is seen as a country with large states and cities in it. Alabasta is one of the few islands known for being a "country", contrasted with the other islands that usually hold one city and such. Alabasta is one of the nations known to have a formal government with relations with the World Government. They are large enough to be an established colony.

Meanwhile the other islands are the size of a chunk of football fields and they hold either a forest ora city.



The purpose of Alabasta is to be a different beast regarding landmarks compared to the rest of the islands around it which are just tourist traps the size of my street.



This is like saying that Australia needs to be as big as the other continents due to their sizes. Alabasta is fine to be as big as it is due to its narrative significance.

I am struggling to find how this helps your argument at all. If anything, wouldn’t this help mine? It provides more reason as to why we wouldn’t see any islands at all in the fully zoomed out panel, which is something that you have questioned.

and only when the Straw Hats entered the open water the night after they left Punk Hazard and before they entered Dressrosa did she show signs of noticing them

I don’t think Viola was acting strange because the strawhats had just came into her vision, I think she was acting strange the day before because that would be around the time she would probably have been pressured to locate the strawhats for doflamingo. As that would’ve been the same day that doflamingo went to punk hazard in search of the strawhats himself without the knowledge of his crew and failed.

We know her ability shows things without her having to hone in on it due to the fact that she could tell things happening outside of Dressrosa without expecting it to happen, like the Sunny getting struck by lightning.

This is not a good scan to try and demonstrate this. In the panel above you can see that the sunny is actually currently in the vision of her senrigan.

and even in that they still have an island gap so far that the climates conflict and produce sea disturbances,

This would contradict your later conclusion. If sea disturbances and climate conflict happen more and more intensely with islands that are further a part, then your upcoming conclusion that there can’t be any islands close to Alabasta would also be incorrect because if the other islands super far from Alabasta, there would be conflicting climates, which you claim would be visible in the panel if that were the case

so if we know that "close islands" are over 4000km away, then we know the average ones are as well.

Even if this was true this would still not debunk my arguments. In fact, I have already addressed this very thing.

And why would this matter to the proposal? If we assume this whole viola point is true, and assume the distance between islands to be at least 4000km, the zoomed out panel of alabasta could still contain at least 40 islands assuming this distance.

Besides the fact that those clouds (your link is broken) are one of those dumb shockwave clouds Oda likes to draw during combat that looks more like signification that rain is falling that he likes to draw when characters are fighting like how he has clear skies but whenever something is moving fast through the air we get those dumb clouds, you fail to understand the point.

This completely dodges Damage’s point about the panel being too far zoomed out to make out details such as the climates of islands. You continue to act as if this point doesn’t exist right after you say this.

This weather was stagnant, the ocean was regular, and nothing changed throughout the entirety of the area, and they would've seen something else in the overhead if the overhead showed different climates.

This conclusion here completely ignores Damage’s point as I just said. No, we wouldn’t have seen any climate irregularities were there to be any Islands near Alabasta on account of the lack of detail from the extreme zoom-out.

It is not the same thing as whatever the hell those waves are in the overhead shot of Alabasta.

I have no idea how you came to the conclusion those were pronounced waves rather than the same water detailing Oda does on all of his water. Oda does that general water detailing whenever it comes to showcasing water that is further from the screen. You can even see it in some of the photos I sent of the calm belt’s water, showing that it does indeed have waves.

In fact, in the Chap 101 scan you use, the only reason why it even has moving water is the residuals from the grand line.

Nope, the calm belt does indeed have waves

Exhibit A. https://imgur.com/a/RqNa7Mf']The Merry was able to swim up 7000 meters of water in 1 exact minute in a spiral formation prior to the usage of its wings. In a straight line, this would be 116.666666667 m/s, which only increases when you consider they went in a spiral around it,

Sure, just ignore the fact that the merry’s speed is being carried by the force of knock-up stream. The speed of the knock-up stream was so fast that it even completely destroyed the “ship” of blackbeard. A ship that would have been sailing on similar winds and wind speeds to the merry. And they move up the knock-up stream at a speed that is portrayed to be quite fast within the narrative. The merry even gets partially destroyed from the speed. So if 116m/s is considered fast to them,(and keep in mind this speed is more accurate than the upcoming ones due to it using a stated timeframe) then it casts doubt on the notion they were moving anywhere near that speed on average during their sailing of the grandline

Exhibit B. The Merry was able to go down the Sandora River and the long way around Alabasta in a few hours. At max, 12 hours. Just saying it took 12 hours to go a 3rd of Alabasta's height, 7955 km, that's already 184.143519 m/s.

At this point, I don’t know if this is a good enough example to support your point. You’ve already, and continue to provide what are actually anti-feats pointing against the merry going a speed this fast on average. It makes it seem like this specific instance is more of an outlier.

Exhibit C. The time it took above for the Sunny to enter Viola's range then reach Dressrosa was less than a day due to the fact that it'd take a day to reach Dressrosa and she recognized them after they entered the open sea due to my showings. 4000 km in a day is over 46 m/s, and this is a highball since it was probably like 8 hours.

This “Exhibit” is not usable due to the reasons above. I also don’t know where you got that it was probably 8 hours. The strawhats left from punk hazard in the day, continued sailing into the night, and didn’t get to dressrosa until it was back day again.

Exhibit D. The Merry moves so fast when it desires that it leaves a trail of water shot into the air.

This is something accomplished by the full speed rowing of the entire crew. This is by no means a speed the Merry usually goes at

Exhibit E. The Merry dodges cannonball fire.

Uhhhh, did you miss the part in those scans where they specifically say “We can’t dodge!!”? And this actually supports my point more than yours, the fact that the merry isn’t fast enough to dodge cannon balls from a good distance away casts doubt on the idea that it was sailing at speeds as high as the current planet size calc would suggest.

Exhibit F. The Merry consistently https://imgur.com/a/VP2XML4']outruns various Sea Beasts, who would be around the speed of Momoo who has a top speed of 70 km/h or 20 m/s.

I don’t know if you put the wrong scans or something, but neither of those scans show the merry consistently outrunning various seabeasts. And the momoo speed scan you have comes from the one piece magazine, which is not a reliable source at all. It’s not at all approved by Oda and often makes things up and gets things wrong.This is the same magazine that claimed Reiju had an unknown devil fruit

Exhibit G. The Polar Tang dodges lasers.

Not only is that neither the merry nor the sunny, but it’s not even a sailboat.

As for the new calc, it contains all the same problems as the last one, except with a few more. First of all, the scan of the grand line used is not usable at all. Both the sizing and shapes of all the islands are way off, and this panel is simply meant to be used as an explanation of the routes of the grand line. Taking this panel as being scaled accurately, all the islands in the grand line and new world would be relative in size, which is something we know isn’t true, and something you yourself acknowledge as not being true.

Alabasta is known as a large island to the point where it is seen as a country with large states and cities in it. Alabasta is one of the few islands known for being a "country", contrasted with the other islands that usually hold one city and such. Alabasta is one of the nations known to have a formal government with relations with the World Government. They are large enough to be an established colony.
Meanwhile the other islands are the size of a chunk of football fields and they hold either a forest ora city.

The purpose of Alabasta is to be a different beast regarding landmarks compared to the rest of the islands around it which are just tourist traps the size of my street.

A more minor issue that Damage has brought up with it is that there is a giant cloud blocking the corner in which you are measuring to. This makes it even more impossible than before to determine whether other islands are included.

The last issue I have with the updated calc is the use of Ohara model to scale. The reason the Boichi panel was resorted to in the first place was because the Ohara model was deemed unreliable to scale with. And again, you yourself acknowledge this.

The globe used to get the planet's size isn't that model (that just got declined)

Also, that model's showing of the other satellites is a theory that even in canon isn't supported since the only celestial object we see in space is the moon

So we resorted to the Boichi panel because the Ohara model was unreliable, and then now we’re resorting to the Ohara model because the Boichi one is unreliable? It is genuinely weird how many of your own quotes and arguments contradict themselves. It is almost leading me to believe you are being disingenuous here. And add onto the fact the enlarged planet size adds much more onto the issue of boat speed.

 

[KingTempest]

I am struggling to find how this helps your argument at all. If anything, wouldn’t this help mine? It provides more reason as to why we wouldn’t see any islands at all in the fully zoomed out panel, which is something that you have questioned.

Read far below

I don’t think Viola was acting strange because the strawhats had just came into her vision, I think she was acting strange the day before because that would be around the time she would probably have been pressured to locate the strawhats for doflamingo. As that would’ve been the same day that doflamingo went to punk hazard in search of the strawhats himself without the knowledge of his crew and failed.

"Viola was acting weird the moment she used her ability because she was being pressured" when she's an amazing actor.
The context is saying that she was acting weird because she used her ability during the middle of the night and saw something weird.

This is not a good scan to try and demonstrate this. In the panel above you can see that the sunny is actually currently in the vision of her senrigan.

Again. SHE NOTICES THE STRAW HATS EVEN WHEN SHE ISN'T HONING IN ON THEM
The vision of her Senrigan is a 4000km radius of her. She doesn't need to look at specific things, that's panel is just the way Oda chose to draw the range of the area.

This would contradict your later conclusion. If sea disturbances and climate conflict happen more and more intensely with islands that are further a part, then your upcoming conclusion that there can’t be any islands close to Alabasta would also be incorrect because if the other islands super far from Alabasta, there would be conflicting climates, which you claim would be visible in the panel if that were the case

Even if this was true this would still not debunk my arguments. In fact, I have already addressed this very thing.

This completely dodges Damage’s point about the panel being too far zoomed out to make out details such as the climates of islands. You continue to act as if this point doesn’t exist right after you say this.

This conclusion here completely ignores Damage’s point as I just said. No, we wouldn’t have seen any climate irregularities were there to be any Islands near Alabasta on account of the lack of detail from the extreme zoom-out.

You continue to not read my points at all and you think that the existence of an argument is the validation of an argument.

The climate of islands is not limited to the island itself, it would stretch to the surroundings.

There is snow for hundreds of miles going out drum island, the previous island from Alabasa, the closest as well, yet there is not a single showcase of clouds producing snow in the shot. And please note, there would be a summer island for every 4 islands. On top of that, it is not a small section of changed sea, it is a climate swap.
It would not look like this

It would look like this

The climate would completely swap for that entire side that it's on. Not just a small dot. It is not "a climate zone inside a climate zone", it is THE CLIMATE SWITCHES COMPLETELY WHEN IT HITS A NEW ZONE.

You and Damage do not understand the point of a climate zone. It is not just going to be a dot inside of a zone, it is an area completely split off.

It's not that damn difficult.

I have no idea how you came to the conclusion those were pronounced waves rather than the same water detailing Oda does on all of his water. Oda does that general water detailing whenever it comes to showcasing water that is further from the screen. You can even see it in some of the photos I sent of the calm belt’s water, showing that it does indeed have waves.

THEY CANONICALLY DO NOT HAVE WAVES this is why they need to SAIL when they get into the calm belt because there is no breeze or waves to push them.

Like wtf are we talking about if the sky is green?
First you think there's no "middle" now the place with no wind has waves WHEN WAVES ARE CAUSED BY WIND.
What are we talking about.

Sure, just ignore the fact that the merry’s speed is being carried by the force of knock-up stream. The speed of the knock-up stream was so fast that it even completely destroyed the “ship” of blackbeard. A ship that would have been sailing on similar winds and wind speeds to the merry. And they move up the knock-up stream at a speed that is portrayed to be quite fast within the narrative. The merry even gets partially destroyed from the speed. So if 116m/s is considered fast to them,(and keep in mind this speed is more accurate than the upcoming ones due to it using a stated timeframe) then it casts doubt on the notion they were moving anywhere near that speed on average during their sailing of the grandline

Blackbeard's raft does not get destroyed because it moved too fast, it got destroyed because water moving at MACH 20 smacked it in the side.
The Merry does not get destroyed because of its speed. It gets destroyed because it is the equivalent of it getting shot through water dense clouds.

All because something is propelling it a certain way does not mean it is increasing its velocity by any noticeable amount, especially since Nami said she was perfectly capable of navigating it.
If it shot the ship faster than they could handle by any ridiculous amount, they would've all fallen off the ship.

You're pulling things out of your ass and making them objective statements.

This “Exhibit” is not usable due to the reasons above. I also don’t know where you got that it was probably 8 hours. The strawhats left from punk hazard in the day, continued sailing into the night, and didn’t get to dressrosa until it was back day again.

Because the average time from night to day is 8 hours, and she said she finally saw them during the night time, not during the PREVIOUS DAY, the PREVIOUS NIGHT.

This is something accomplished by the full speed rowing of the entire crew. This is by no means a speed the Merry usually goes at.

In the real world ships don't do that. The whole point of the damn exhibitions is that these ships go at whatever speed Oda chooses.

Uhhhh, did you miss the part in those scans where they specifically say “We can’t dodge!!”? And this actually supports my point more than yours, the fact that the merry isn’t fast enough to dodge cannon balls from a good distance away casts doubt on the idea that it was sailing at speeds as high as the current planet size calc would suggest.

Did you not read shit?
The link starts off with them saying "Are you telling me that with seven navy warships, we can't sink one stinking little ship?! Incompetent fools!!"
Then after that, they note that there's a cannonball.

Ships are not humans. Ships can not swerve left and right, so a direct shot is likely to hit when they are moving in the same path, which is why they were incapable of dodging.

They couldn't get hit cause they were fast.
They couldn't dodge because of simple common sense.

I don’t know if you put the wrong scans or something, but neither of those scans show the merry consistently outrunning various seabeasts.

You literally see seabeasts in the waves chasing down the Sunny

And the momoo speed scan you have comes from the one piece magazine, which is not a reliable source at all. It’s not at all approved by Oda and often makes things up and gets things wrong.This is the same magazine that claimed Reiju had an unknown devil fruit

Incorrect as hell.
The Magazine is attributed to Oda and his organization with his name throughout it. He drops his own personal information and his drafts and things he intended to input through the magazines repeatedly.
A mistake in the magazine is not an eliminator for canon. There are mistakes in everything in One Piece that just get corrected.

Not only is that neither the merry nor the sunny, but it’s not even a sailboat.

Do not notice the fact that I said "ships move as fast as Oda want them"? Or you wanna sit here and say that it's perfectly fine for the Polar Tang to move at relativistic speeds?
Also, the Polar Tang is as fast as the Sunny, so this is a non argument.

As for the new calc, it contains all the same problems as the last one, except with a few more. First of all, the scan of the grand line used is not usable at all. Both the sizing and shapes of all the islands are way off, and this panel is simply meant to be used as an explanation of the routes of the grand line. Taking this panel as being scaled accurately, all the islands in the grand line and new world would be relative in size, which is something we know isn’t true, and something you yourself acknowledge as not being true.

A more minor issue that Damage has brought up with it is that there is a giant cloud blocking the corner in which you are measuring to. This makes it even more impossible than before to determine whether other islands are included.

The last issue I have with the updated calc is the use of Ohara model to scale. The reason the Boichi panel was resorted to in the first place was because the Ohara model was deemed unreliable to scale with. And again, you yourself acknowledge this.

It's really weird.
I never made this a blog, meaning I was never confident in it enough to post it, yet you and others weirdly have access to it, in fact you have enough access to it to speak on it and publicly post it in a thread as if it was an argument.
I know you're new here, but may I just say, SANDBOXES ARE NOT ******* BLOGS, don't put them in CRTs, because they aren't FINISHED CALCULATIONS nor are they FIT FOR SHARING.

So we resorted to the Boichi panel because the Ohara model was unreliable, and then now we’re resorting to the Ohara model because the Boichi one is unreliable? It is genuinely weird how many of your own quotes and arguments contradict themselves. It is almost leading me to believe you are being disingenuous here. And add onto the fact the enlarged planet size adds much more onto the issue of boat speed.

We resorted to the boichi panel because it was the panel that actually showed it from space and it was better than a model because it encapsulated the distance of the moon and the size of it.

When you quote things, actually dig for the context.

 

[Damage3245]

Do not notice the fact that I said "ships move as fast as Oda want them"? Or you wanna sit here and say that it's perfectly fine for the Polar Tang to move at relativistic speeds?
Also, the Polar Tang is as fast as the Sunny, so this is a non argument.

Even if we accepted that the Polar Tang was moving at Relativistic speeds in that scene during Marineford, what makes you think it is moving at Relativistic speeds when it moving side-by-side with the Sunny and Kid's ship at the end of Wano? Ships aren't always travelling at their maximum possible speed, and just because two ships are able move in tandem with each other at one particular speed doesn't mean they share the same maximum speed either.

I'm not sure I fully get the argument around the Polar Tang; is it just "There's no internal consistency in One Piece when it comes to ship speeds, therefore the speed of ships can't be used as a counter-argument for the planet being bigger than the Sun"? Why wouldn't we just rule out the Polar Tang's supposedly Relativistic speed as an outlier, considering that all of the other examples you gave of ship speeds are tens of thousands times slower than the Polar Tang's feat?

 

[KingTempest]

Even if we accepted that the Polar Tang was moving at Relativistic speeds in that scene during Marineford, what makes you think it is moving at Relativistic speeds when it moving side-by-side with the Sunny and Kid's ship at the end of Wano? Ships aren't always travelling at their maximum possible speed, and just because two ships are able move in tandem with each other at one particular speed doesn't mean they share the same maximum speed either.

I'm not sure I fully get the argument around the Polar Tang; is it just "There's no internal consistency in One Piece when it comes to ship speeds, therefore the speed of ships can't be used as a counter-argument for the planet being bigger than the Sun"? Why wouldn't we just rule out the Polar Tang's supposedly Relativistic speed as an outlier, considering that all of the other examples you gave of ship speeds are tens of thousands times slower than the Polar Tang's feat?

How are you gonna argue that they aren't comparable then in the same breath say that it's an outlier

Are you just throwing stuff at a wall and seeing what argument is right?

 

[EtherealCrater]

It's really weird.
I never made this a blog, meaning I was never confident in it enough to post it, yet you and others weirdly have access to it, in fact you have enough access to it to speak on it and publicly post it in a thread as if it was an argument.

Yeah, just a quirk of the site. On a person's profile and "Contributions", it shows up, even if it's not a blog that you have posted.

 

[Damage3245]

How are you gonna argue that they aren't comparable then in the same breath say that it's an outlier

Are you just throwing stuff at a wall and seeing what argument is right?

I think you misunderstood me. In the scene you linked we do have the Thousand Sunny and the Polar Tang sailing side by side... But what does that prove? That they are comparable to each other in that scene, and how fast were they going? Do we have any indication that the Polar Tang was sailing at Relativistic speed in that scene specifically?

To put it another way, it's like saying that the Flash ran at FTL speeds in one scene, and in an unrelated scene we see him walking side by side with Batman. The earlier FTL scene doesn't prove that he is always moving at that speed with no variation, and we shouldn't assume Batman is also FTL.