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Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Giannysmag
- Start date
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The VN scans say the Tree (or Universe in general) has 7 compact dimensions, which would solve the issue pointed out earlier.
In any case, it’s made perfectly clear that what is physical in the Tree is 4-dimensional (which is why Imaginary Space, Subspace and Path Space are incorporeal), which is the main thing I’m affirming here. Which leaves Alien Space in a contradicted position since unless we affirm Ryusuke isn’t physical.
Can I have the scans saying SoQ isn’t composed of real numbers. Genuinely curious
This particular scan has the TL edited on it, the original one is in CN, which I’ll post here if I can find it.
Again, this sorta semi-canon or retconned typa stuff is the exact issue I’m pointing out. You can’t just have a story be simultaneously referenced and also not acknowledged as canon without raising eyes.
Mbpoops
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The vn says nothing about the tree it only says the proper universe (reality or in vsbw terms “real space”). The tree itself is higher dimensional otto even says it exists on higher dimension
Pro hasnt heard of the ambrosial arbor kek..
Jokes aside tho, yes real space is 4D
Ryusuke fused with the entire dimension. Together they formed a being that exists higher than reality
Its not canon all the canon stories are on the hoyo manga page
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It talks about the entire universe in general. Iirc this was before the Tree yes, but it included SoQ in it so…
And again, you literally ignored what I wrote. You’re responding to a comment of me saying that the Tree being higher-D can be explained via compactification… by reaffirming it’s higher-D
How does this address my point, can you elaborate
So the canon parts of the story that reference this manga… what about them?
Mbpoops
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Could you show me where it says the sea of quanta has 4 infinite 7 compact dimensions?
But you have to prove the tree’s dimensions are compactified bruh higher dimensional spaces can have infinite axis even if lower spces have those dimensions as compactAnd again, you literally ignored what I wrote. You’re responding to a comment of me saying that the Tree being higher-D can be explained via compactification… by reaffirming it’s higher-D
If the key’s dimension is physical then ryusuke is if its not then hes not id have to read the manga again but im busy
Are most likely addressed in the actual story
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The VN under current CRTs says bubble worlds have 7 compact dimensions, though I won't go into how this is inaccurate at the moment, it's not my conversation to have right now. You can't extrapolate that to the Sea or the Tree.
Ryusuke directly calls the Alien Key 'a dimensional weapon' in Alien Space chapter 14. We also see how his attacks were very much corporeal until he unleashed said dimensional weapon and started existing on the dimension above Welt, where Welt couldn't react to his attacks like he previously could.
In the Durandal VN, directly from Otto:
I imagine if it were possible to map on a 5D cartesian coordinate system coordinates wouldn't be constantly shifting. Like stated in your scan above, space in 'four dimensional space' is ordered and follows constant rules, hence the SoQ isn't 4D.
There's no constants and there's no constant relationship between things in the Sea of Quanta.
Your scan posits in the second paragraph that the 4th Dimension is the only dimension with these constants and is the only space of real numbers.
Understandable. It's probably from a handbook somewhere given that the colour schemes match up with the other handbooks I've seen.
Also the material referenced is placed in both the Honkai Chronicles and the manga. The Hi3 game has provided a replacement to where you can get this material from. (the chronicles) That should be enough for that manga to be completely non-canon lol.
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The literal scan.
It’s talking about the universe in general. As in, with every structure. This isn’t even a contradictory way to talk about it as well because SoQ has been said to be part of the Universe other times as well.
I can say the same thing as I said above. The CN of that scan talks about the universe in general, not any specific bubble world. And I’m not sure why mentioning CRTs matters here.
You’d have to assume that IT exists “outside” of the entire Universe when that VN scan was published for this point to go off.
I know. It being corporeal is exactly what I have a problem with. The fact that Real Space is the physical part of the cosmos is re-affirmed even in HSR 3.7. But if Real Space is 4D then it leaves Ryusuke in a contradictory place
Imaginary Space was said to belong only to the IT after all so I won’t say it’s not farfetched for SoQ to be outside Real Space.
Mbpoops
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Its talking about the physical universe not the entire higher dimensional tree again you need to prove its talking abt the tree and not real space
The soq has actually been proven to be the contrary as every time the soq is refered to in dialog they refer to it separate from reality. Even when they were sent into the soq bronya says a power beyond physical space was required to send them to the soq so no the soq is not apart of real space
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…
Notice how it’s separate to “reality” or “physical space” and whatnot, and not the “universe”?
Here’s a scan from out beloved Weaver:
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I said he's corporeal UNTIL he releases his dimensional weapon. Welt afterwards only defeats him by using gravity as it 'works the same on all dimensions' (I guess he means the core properties? We see gravity literally flipping in the SoQ).
Welt doesn't touch him at all. We even see Ryusuke make an R>F comparison in chapter 15. Everything points towards him being able to effect Welt simply because he's on a higher dimension. (likely 5D hax made possible through the alien key) - IMO this is confirmed to me as he even goes directly through Imaginary Barriers. It's only when he starts seeing on a higher dimension that his imaginary barriers can even effect Ryusuke's attacks. Even then nothing hits him physically, just gravity.
And are we sure they're not talking about the universe as in reality? The Imaginary Tree wasn't even physically explored until Durandal did it. Reality is part of the theory of the Tree or whatever the Tree actually is.
I like to argue off of current CRTs so everyone is on the same page rather than trying to assert something totally knew, unless I'm directly against a previous CRT. Makes sense in my books.
Even though it's been stated several times that the Sea and Tree are constantly battling with each other on an equal dimensional level. If Imaginary Space isn't part of the Universe (which it isnt) and the Tree isn't part of the Universe (it isnt) then the Sea isn't either.
It's far more accurate to say that the Tree holds infinite realities within it, not that the Tree is one big reality.
(Especially when the tree is just a theory).
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You're implying here that this scan is supporting evidence that the SoQ is part of the 'universe' (including the Tree) but Hi3 has never posited the Tree as the universe. Only HSR does that. Confirmation bias imo.
Also directly ignores your scan from earlier that says the SoQ isn't part of the universe.
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The way I’ve always interpreted it honestly is that SoQ and IT are both just different parts of the same “Universe”, which is why their influence affects the same worlds and the like
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I know it's from Hi3. What I'm saying is that Hi3 doesn't describe the cosmology in a way that supports your viewing of the Sea of Quanta. Your viewing is that it's part of the universe, because you interpret the Imaginary Tree as the universe itself as described (sometimes) in HSR.
In Hi3's subtext your viewing is incorrect because the Tree is never 'the universe' in Hi3. When people discuss the universe in Hi3 it talks about the physical universe. Not the Tree, therefore the idea that the Sea is part of the Universe because of this scan is incorrect.
The way I interpret it the greater HSR / Hi3 cosmology after playing Hi3 first then using it to inform my opinions about HSR:
- The 'universe' is base reality for each world, or collectively base reality like it is in HSR. It doesn't matter which.
- The Tree (whether as a theory, an actual tree or whatever the tree represents that we can't physically understand) exists on a higher dimensional level than our base 4D universe, hence why we can't perceive it in base HSR reality. We can only see barriers of imaginary energy separating each 'world' - This is where reality is at its weakest.
If you imagine the universe as a tree, there's gaps between the branches. These gaps are overlayed onto their corresponding parts of reality and cause it to weaken, letting imaginary energy seep in. The branches are 'solid' thus this doesn't happen, there's a foundation for the world to be supported by and not simply a storm of Imaginary Energy.
Similar events of Imaginary Energy leaking into the world have happened in Hi3, such as in Chapter 17 of Hi3, where Mei has to close this breach (made originally by her becoming a Herrscher years ago) because it poses a serious threat to the planet if allowed to fester. Copious amounts of Imaginary Energy, as we know, eradicates anything that comes into contact with it, and in Hi3, leads to increasing Honkai events.
The Sea of Quanta exists on the same dimension as the Tree but is superimposed over it, taking on the worlds dropped by the tree, constantly trying to absorb the tree's nutrients while the Tree absorbs what parts of the Sea of Quanta it can.
Why do I think this? The breach in Chapter 17 that Mei combats has Quantum Shadows leaking from it. Both Quantum and Imaginary events are caused by this breach, I say Imaginary events because it allows Otto to see into the Genshin World, seeing Dvalin (a different area of the Tree) and seeing a variant of Rita Rossweisse which exists in Captainverse. Captainverse takes place in the Sea of Quanta.
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This is what I generally mean by “Universe”.
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Well as long as you don't posit either the Sea or Tree are part of base reality I've got nothing to cry about. I think the misunderstanding comes from that everyone on the Hi3 side of things interprets the 'universe' as each world and the 4D things within them. When you say the sea or tree is part of the 'universe' it comes off as downright inaccurate.
Solely because we know the imaginary tree and sea are different dimensions to base reality and both different dimensions to each other.
The best way to put it imo is that the sea and tree are both (x)th dimensional (personally I believe 11th) and superimposed onto each other because they obviously interact.
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I just think they’re part of the same structure or higher-dimension honestly. With Imaginary Space being outside of it/its origin, since it is outside Space and Time. I just think it’s weird how they specify that it is the “Space of the Imaginary Tree” specifically, whilst also being deeper than SoQ.
So when I’m talking about “Universe” (i.e what those other two scans mentioned), I mean this general structure, bar maybe IS.
Mbpoops
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Well they cant be because the imaginary tree is a bigger infinity than the sea of quanta
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The exact scan (and preferably context too), please.
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I know about this one. It’s about the amount of honkai, but I’m asking what part of this implies IT is an entire infinity bigger than SoQ
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From the raws it translates into this:
- Even if we have exhausted the Honkai on the Earth, we are still wandering on the lowest “transfinite base”, and still far from the insight into the Imaginary Tree that is “infinite in the sense of transfinite”
It's not about the amount of Honkai, it's saying that the Imaginary Tree is the highest order of infinity. Keywords: 'Insight into the Imaginary Tree that is:' - It's talking about a property of the Tree, not the amount of energy inside of it.
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I’ll js have to play to that point myself to confirm the context atp…
I js find it funny that Einstein is basically saying that the Tree is “infinite in an infinite sense”. The statement itself is pretty nonsensical in general, and if go as far as to take the intended meaning of it then Earth’s space isn’t even equivalent to R lmao.
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I'm pretty sure the surrounding context is that they were looking for the cocoon of finality but searching the entirety of the Imaginary Tree is impossible. They had to use the Herrscher cores, as they're projected onto reality, to trace back to the Cocoon.
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Yea that’s it. Nice job
BoastJr
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What would happen if Welt had over 9000 petatons of power
Mbpoops
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Welt decided to stop holding back and use 801 petatons
Mbpoops
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If anything they are just “epics as we’ve written”cas is gonna hate me
So like…. Where are the chrysos heirs here? Is it time to nuke cyrene amps for everyone except the mfs shown here?
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Technically in the second round, they attack Irontomb as it is in the process of self-coronation.
Mbpoops
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I mean i guess they could be summons which i was told they are indexed as off site so eh
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Every feat regarding Aeons scales to Real Space only. We’re like, directly told this. Only maybe IX is higher
Mbpoops
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Nanook is pathstrider level because phainon hurted him
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Nous was boutta get belted by Irontomb reformatting the physical world... son...
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