Comprehensive Review of the Instant Death

[Mizuki67]

This wiki is cooked if the 1A revision passed. I can already smell the bs coming

 

[Elizhaa]

Here is another evidence that suggest infinite space can exist, from Hiruko, a god, being able to create one (Volume 10 Chapter 14 Light novel). I think the rating below and up to the Higher 1-B rating relating to the higher universes could still be valid. I think the proposals were missing the supporting evidence with the embedded spaces within higher dimensions. It can be found from a related thread on the tiering topic on the higher universe; the Abyss evidence was outdated for this thread and later updated from this thread on the Abyss given from Oblivion‘s post above in the current thread, and the higher universe point embedding point was accepted.

Here is what could have brought more contexts in the Chapter 10 ACT2 Episode 18 web novel: Volume 10 Chapter 19 of the light novel basically has the same events, with some cases being more explicit with dimensional space that suggests it is a dimensional jump and the evidence that UEG suggests one needs to be a higher-dimensional being or higher-order being to access this space.

Excerpt from Volume 10 Chapter 19 Light novel:

They would attempt to jump out of the dimensional space occupied by their opponent and destroy it from the outside. As they did, their opponent would jump to an even higher level universe and attempt the same thing. There should have been no end to the cycle, but suddenly there was. Touichirou's attack had erased the universe containing the UEG.

Here UEG’s statement on transcending space-time from the web novel; it is also in the Light novel Volume 11 Chapter 20

As far as she could feel, there was no doubt that this goddess was involved in the sealing. However, she couldn't remember what had happened in the past, or what kind of relationship she had with this goddess.

UEG was unprincipled and used her power to push through everything, but she could not lie to herself. In other words, she couldn't claim to have avenged this goddess without clear evidence.

Since she transcended time and space, she could at least confirm it, but she couldn't do that either. Since she had no memory of the time and space where something had supposedly happened, the existence of that time and space was too vague for the UEG to interfere with.

"What a fluffy, lazy conversation!"

Based on the contexts of the dimension explanations, like the current evidence from Abyss above, and other contexts, like Ultima’s reply regarding the destruction being akin to higher tragedy and the fact there is higher universe embedding evidence, the Tiering FAQ: Q: When are higher dimensions question link; There is seems to be enough evidence for an established relationship of superiority towards lower-dimensional ones.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

So erm, what rating is true from yogiri getting, 1C?

Technically not yet, since his current profile has him scaling to the higher universes instead. He currently scales to the UEW only in range. So, for now he'll have Low 1-C ED and 1-C omnipresence/range.

 

[Mbpoops]

This wiki is cooked if the 1A revision passed. I can already smell the bs coming

You mean saved?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Excerpt from Volume 10 Chapter 19 Light novel:

Isnt that a mistranslation? There is no "dimensional space" in the raws.

 

[Mizuki67]

You mean saved?

You can think however you want. This wiki is very inconsistent with their scaling and the people evaluating it are unreliable just like how they upgrade ruphas to 1-A+. I am seeing the same situation now

 

[Elizhaa]

Isnt that a mistranslation? There is no "dimensional space" in the raws.

This case is from the light novel Volume 10 Chapter 19 or here; besides rare cases, we just had the web novel raws not the light novel raws, from what I know. The light novel sometimes tends to add more contexts or details but largely remains the same. The web novel already support from UEG that one needed to be a higher-dimensional being to access the higher universes in the web novel or higher-order being. So, I think it is a valid translation.

 

[Hecky2222]

You can think however you want. This wiki is very inconsistent with their scaling and the people evaluating it are unreliable just like how they upgrade ruphas to 1-A+. I am seeing the same situation now

He is joking dw

 

[sukuna171]

You can think however you want. This wiki is very inconsistent with their scaling and the people evaluating it are unreliable just like how they upgrade ruphas to 1-A+. I am seeing the same situation now

I don’t really buy 1-A for him, but there are layers to the whole thing. Yogiri is implied to be able to erase a space outside the actual story—like that Q&A section where he and the main girl talk directly with the readers.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

I don’t really buy 1-A for him, but there are layers to the whole thing. Yogiri is implied to be able to erase a space outside the actual story—like that Q&A section where he and the main girl talk directly with the readers.

Q and A outside of beign a WOG, is clearly a gag, chars like kumagawa,ajimu, simon, deadpool etc, can talk to the readers too but its cuz the autor wanted to make a joke

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Technically not yet, since his current profile has him scaling to the higher universes instead. He currently scales to the UEW only in range. So, for now he'll have Low 1-C ED and 1-C omnipresence/range.

To my understanding his true form is what keeps the cosmology standing, so shouldnt that be 1C AP too?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

To my understanding his true form is what keeps the cosmology standing, so shouldnt that be 1C AP too?

Maybe, but that would require a new CRT.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Based on the contexts of the dimension explanations, like the current evidence from Abyss above, and other contexts, like Ultima’s reply regarding the destruction being akin to higher tragedy and the fact there is higher universe embedding evidence, the Tiering FAQ: Q: When are higher dimensions question link; There is seems to be enough evidence for an established relationship of superiority towards lower-dimensional ones.

Am confused like, how did sweetdao got an insane downgrade to 4B having this evidence, like IK some of it is new, but some other its old.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

@Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Reiner04

I agree with @Elizhaa statement, and based on that the Higher Universes will be restored to H1B. I was already confident that they were H1B, but I did not know how to properly explain it to you. I do not have extensive experience with H1B interpretations, so even though I was confident, I could not clearly present the explanation.

Now the matter is clear, so they will be restored to H1B based on Elizhaa explanation, as it is convincing and clear.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Q and A outside of beign a WOG, is clearly a gag, chars like kumagawa,ajimu, simon, deadpool etc, can talk to the readers too but its cuz the autor wanted to make a joke

No, that is not the case at all. When the time comes, I will present the argument for it along with the other arguments.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Now the matter is clear, so they will be restored to H1B based on Elizhaa’s explanation, as it is convincing and clear.

erm no brother, staff voted only for 1C, you havent even adressed yogiri Ap

 

[Mizuki67]

erm no brother, staff voted only for 1C, you havent even adressed yogiri Ap

He is so eager to close it fast lmao.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

He is so eager to close it fast lmao.

he got 1C, insane upgrade. I would stick to that tbh

 

[Mizuki67]

Am confused like, how did sweetdao got an insane downgrade to 4B having this evidence, like IK some of it is new, but some other its old.

Literally what would happen when someone go on vacation. This wiki is so cooked anyways

It is just like honkai situation without bern / supernova. Alot of characters would be H1A+ by now

 

[Azertyhuuh]

erm no brother, staff voted only for 1C, you havent even adressed yogiri Ap

Elizhaa voted in favor of H1B and explained the matter of the Higher Universes. So all I did was mention @Reiner04 and @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless in order to know their opinion again. I did not say that I would apply it now.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Elizhaa voted in favor of H1B and explained the matter of the Higher Universes. So all I did was mention @Reiner04 and @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless in order to know their opinion again. I did not say that I would apply it now.

Elizhaa said it was possible not that he agreed with the arguments you presented. He never voted it just say its a possibility

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Elizhaa said it was possible not that he agreed with the arguments you presented. He never voted it just say its a possibility

No. He himself came here and presented the complete arguments about the Higher Universes, because what I explained in the thread was incorrect and incomplete. He provided the reasoning that makes them H1B, so yes, he agrees. Moreover, from now on he will be the one handling the Higher Universes in this thread, just so you know.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

No. He himself came here and presented the complete arguments about the Higher Universes, because what I explained in the thread was incorrect and incomplete. He provided the reasoning that makes them H1B, so yes, he agrees. Moreover, from now on he will be the one handling the Higher Universes in this thread, just so you know.

if its allowed sure go for it

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

Technically not yet, since his current profile has him scaling to the higher universes instead. He currently scales to the UEW only in range. So, for now he'll have Low 1-C ED and 1-C omnipresence/range.

I have a few doubts.

Daimaou nodded her head in understanding.

I think you can understand the ...... way, can't you? You can't reach me, you know. I manipulate space-time and control infinity. There is an infinite gap between you and me. It seems my attack didn't get through, but your attack didn't get through to me either...”　

The Great Demon King waved one hand carelessly. Her hand sword ripped through space. Patty could not tell what it cut through, but she could see that the Great Demon King had cut through something of his own volition.　

One of Ganze's hands fell. His right hand, with its heavy cuirass, fell, making a dull thud.　

More than pain, more than fear, the thought of unreasonableness prevailed. Distorting space and building infinite distance. Any attack is meaningless if it cannot reach you. This is the best defense Ganze has. But it was easily broken. He didn't understand the meaning. Infinite means literally limitless. No attack could ever reach him.

As is known, Patty’s ability is the manipulation of space, which inherently governs both time and infinity. She can manifest that infinite space to create a literal void between Paella and herself.
This demonstrates that the gaps between universes be it space, time, or the sheer number of Universe

She used the infinite space or void of space to demonstrate that space has an infinite size.

why the Celestial Foundation is still rated as 4-B?

But, if the Celestial Foundation isn't 2-A or Low 1C, why does Abyss get it while the Celestial Foundation, which is the global framework, doesn't? Why does the scale seem so strange?

Many things make the Celestial Foundation a 2-A, including Paella's parallel world, or others.

 

[Hecky2222]

why the Celestial Foundation is still rated as 4-B?

omg bro did you even read whole thread

 

[Maniaunavailable]

why the Celestial Foundation is still rated as 4-B?

dont mess with power scalers we can't read

 

[Hjdjdhf]

Excerpt from Volume 10 Chapter 19 Light novel:

This is an incorrect translation. The original text does not mention dimensional space; it only describes the multiverse and the universe.

つまり、お互いに宇宙間を移動し、相手が移動する宇宙を予測して、その宇宙を消し飛ばすのだ。
相手のいる宇宙を内包する多元宇宙の外へと移動し、そこからその宇宙を攻撃する。
するとさらに相手はより上位の宇宙へと移動して攻撃をするのだ。
つまりキリがないのだが、終わりは唐突に訪れた。

The gaps between Higher Universes are indeed not mentioned; only the relationship of inclusion and being included is present.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

This is an incorrect translation. The original text does not mention dimensional space; it only describes the multiverse and the universe.


The gaps between Higher Universes are indeed not mentioned; only the relationship of inclusion and being included is present.

He already responded to this here, and after the approval of Oblivion Of The Endless and Reiner, the revisions will be applied directly.

 

[Hecky2222]

Besides with misleading revision Azerty gave us one could think dimensions got downgraded via infinity concept getting canceled which is straight up not true.

Here exact evidence Elizhaa presenting gets countered one by one

So if one wants to bring back they should counter that arguments, not try to bring back 2021 CRT.

This is honestly funny . I can imagine how someone tries to restore Homestuck without even countering my debunk which was accepted.

 

[Hecky2222]

He already responded to this here, and after the approval of Oblivion Of The Endless and Reiner, the revisions will be applied directly.

This is bad rebuttal considering another one is OTL translator

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Besides with misleading revision Azerty gave us one could think dimensions got downgraded via infinity concept getting canceled which is straight up not true.

Here exact evidence Elizhaa presenting gets countered one by one

So if one wants to bring back they should counter that arguments, not try to bring back 2021 CRT.

This is honestly funny . I can imagine how someone tries to restore Homestuck without even countering my debunk which was accepted.

Haha, my brother, the argument is different, and Elizhaa explanation is very clear. Sweet Dao only translated some words that are not actually related to the downgrade and are not sufficient to justify lowering the tier. Elizhaa already responded to this here regarding the interdimensional space, explaining that these things do not affect the tier and were never the reason the Higher Universes were placed at that level. The downgrade relied on the claim that the concept of infinity does not exist, and you can check the replies to see that this was the real basis.

Do you really think it counts as a refutation just because he translated a couple of words? Honestly, I don’t know what to say. It would be better if you reviewed the replies. The Higher Universes have many pieces of evidence and numerous arguments supporting them, and Elizhaa has now addressed the translation issue and those points as well. The real reason for the downgrade was the infinity argument, where the gap was considered not infinite, and because of that the cosmology was restricted to Tier 3 in the first place.

Please do not rely on incorrect threads or flawed arguments when trying to prove a point. We are here to correct the information, and we are already aware of all of that.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Please, enough with the unproductive comments that only make the thread longer without adding any value. I have already said everything I needed to say, and Elizhaa has also presented his points. Tomorrow I will see the opinions of Reiner and Oblivion Of The Endless, and after that everything will be decided. For now, we should wait and stop making the thread longer with these conversations.

 

[Hecky2222]

Please, enough with the unproductive comments that only make the thread longer without adding any value. I have already said everything I needed to say, and Elizhaa has also presented his points. Tomorrow I will see the opinions of Reiner and Oblivion Of The Endless, and after that everything will be decided. For now, we should wait and stop making the thread longer with these conversations.

Line you are seeking comes from there:
Raw : 相手のいる宇宙を内包する多元宇宙の外へと移動し、そこからその宇宙を攻撃する。

@ExcelsisBerny @Hjdjdhf since you two knowledgeable about Japanese, can someone please confirm if dimensional space being used there

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Line you are seeking comes from there:
Raw : 相手のいる宇宙を内包する多元宇宙の外へと移動し、そこからその宇宙を攻撃する。

@ExcelsisBerny @Hjdjdhf since you two knowledgeable about Japanese, can someone please confirm if dimensional space being used there

Man, this has nothing to do with that. Words in Japanese can have many meanings depending on the context. Before assigning a meaning to any word, you must first understand what is stated and examine the full context—both what comes before and what comes after it. That is why translating a single word in isolation, as Sweet Dao did, is not appropriate. As I told you, the meaning of a translation can vary, and the interpretation of terms depends on the preceding and following context, as well as the context used to clarify the intended meaning.

Ihsjihahxu and Elizhaa have already demonstrated the existence of an infinite space, which confirms the presence of such a space. Because of that, the translation of that particular word is not important in the face of this context. From this context, the meaning of the statement becomes clear. Japanese words often carry multiple meanings depending on the context, and the surrounding context here supports the existence of an infinite space, which refutes the opposing claim.

Simply translating a word and immediately assigning a fixed meaning to it is not acceptable here, and everyone is aware of that.

Daimaou nodded her head in understanding.

I think you can understand the ...... way, can't you? You can't reach me, you know. I manipulate space-time and control infinity. There is an infinite gap between you and me. It seems my attack didn't get through, but your attack didn't get through to me either...”　

The Great Demon King waved one hand carelessly. Her hand sword ripped through space. Patty could not tell what it cut through, but she could see that the Great Demon King had cut through something of his own volition.　

One of Ganze's hands fell. His right hand, with its heavy cuirass, fell, making a dull thud.　

More than pain, more than fear, the thought of unreasonableness prevailed. Distorting space and building infinite distance. Any attack is meaningless if it cannot reach you. This is the best defense Ganze has. But it was easily broken. He didn't understand the meaning. Infinite means literally limitless. No attack could ever reach him.

 

[Reiner04]

I will delete any comment unnecessary or unrelated to the topic from here on.

 

[Reiner04]

The Abyss has four spatial axis and a time dimension.

Correct me if i am wrong but since Abyss has its own time dimension (and a time dimension is eternal bydefault independent of its spatial size), wouldn't it make overall sea 1-C rather than Low 1-C?

Regarding the higher universes that contains multiverses of lower hierarchy than itself (with insignificant spaces), that are further part of a multiverse containing these higher universes which is further contained by the higher-higher universes; wouldn't the size of the overall 'Higher Multiverse', where each individual universe is the size of an entire 'Lower Multiverse' (1-C or Low 1-C), be significantly larger than the insignificant extra-dimensional space containing that lower multiverse? Since infinite*insignificant = infinite. While our FAQ states that destroying multiple 2-A structures is no greater feat than destroying a single one, that rule only applies to the contents (the universes), not the space that contains them. Since that space is countable here, wouldn't each higher universe still be significantly larger than the multiverse two layers below itself?

This img pretty much explains my point:

Spoiler

Blue circle: contain insignificant space housing pink universes.
Yellow circle: contains the multiverse containing insignificant spaces that is blue circle and stretches to infinite.
Black circle: same.
Adinfinitum.

Or is there smth i am missing?

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Correct me if i am wrong but since Abyss has its own time dimension (and a time dimension is eternal bydefault independent of its spatial size), wouldn't it make overall sea 1-C rather than Low 1-C?

Regarding the higher universes that contains multiverses of lower hierarchy than itself (with insignificant spaces), that are further part of a multiverse containing these higher universes which is further contained by the higher-higher universes; wouldn't the size of the overall 'Higher Multiverse', where each individual universe is the size of an entire 'Lower Multiverse' (1-C or Low 1-C), be significantly larger than the insignificant extra-dimensional space containing that lower multiverse? Since infinite*insignificant = infinite. While our FAQ states that destroying multiple 2-A structures is no greater feat than destroying a single one, that rule only applies to the contents (the universes), not the space that contains them. Since that space is countable here, wouldn't each higher universe still be significantly larger than the multiverse two layers below itself?

This img pretty much explains my point:

Spoiler

Blue circle: contain insignificant space housing pink universes.
Yellow circle: contains the multiverse containing insignificant spaces that is blue circle and stretches to infinite.
Black circle: same.
Adinfinitum.

Or is there smth i am missing?

Elizhaa has already explained the matter. There is also an interdimensional space, and the gap between these Higher Universes is infinite / limitless, as shown here. In other words, the difference is not small at all; the separation between the universes above is infinite and without limit.

Daimaou nodded her head in understanding.

I think you can understand the ...... way, can't you? You can't reach me, you know. I manipulate space-time and control infinity. There is an infinite gap between you and me. It seems my attack didn't get through, but your attack didn't get through to me either...”　

The Great Demon King waved one hand carelessly. Her hand sword ripped through space. Patty could not tell what it cut through, but she could see that the Great Demon King had cut through something of his own volition.　

One of Ganze's hands fell. His right hand, with its heavy cuirass, fell, making a dull thud.　

More than pain, more than fear, the thought of unreasonableness prevailed. Distorting space and building infinite distance. Any attack is meaningless if it cannot reach you. This is the best defense Ganze has. But it was easily broken. He didn't understand the meaning. Infinite means literally limitless. No attack could ever reach him.

Tell me if you agree with Elizhaa on this point. I will also wait for the opinion of Oblivion Of The Endless, and then I will proceed with applying the revisions.

 

[Hjdjdhf]

He already responded to this here, and after the approval of Oblivion Of The Endless and Reiner, the revisions will be applied directly.

I found a version of the WEB that also does not mention dimensions and uses the term 'universe' instead.

そもそもが、まったく別の世界からここに来ているのだから、別の宇宙への移動などお互いにできて当たり前なのだ。
そこからはさらなる悲劇と惨劇の繰り返しだった。
つまり、お互いに宇宙間を移動し、相手が移動する宇宙を予測して、その宇宙を消し飛ばすのだ。
相手のいる宇宙を内包する多元宇宙の外へと移動し、そこからその宇宙を攻撃する。
するとさらに相手はより上位の宇宙へと移動して攻撃をするのだ。
つまりキリがないのだが、終わりは唐突に訪れた。

Unfortunately, the web has been removed and replaced with the book's standard version,
However, this version has not been updated to UEG to date
Author's Homepage

In the 11th volume, chapter 21 of the novel, dimensions, worlds, and universes are listed side by side here, and it also mentions a higher universe rather than a high-dimensional universe.
As you said, Japanese has many meanings. Is it possible that '次元' doesn't refer exclusively to dimensions?

ならば別の次元を、並行世界を、別の宇宙を観ようとしたが、それも叶わなかった。観ようとした先にあるのも虚無だったのだ。

「な、ならば！　全てを壊しつくしてくれるわ！　時空を！　宇宙を！　その宇宙を含む上位宇宙を！」

 

[Reiner04]

Snip

There is no rule restricting users from interpreting the text. While formal Translation Request Thread exist, that doesn't mean regular members are prohibited from presenting their case regarding specific translations. The discussion is focused on the cosmology, and said member have simply elaborated on their views of the scans presented. Therefore, the comments are relevant and necessary. 'Unnecessary comments' would be those that fail to address the topic at hand, even in the least relevant sense, and instead pivot to something completely unrelated, such as different verses that has nothing to do with the verse (except in cases of whataboutism and such). That is not the case here. Your comment is the one unnecessary here so i am going to delete it.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

There is no rule restricting users from interpreting the text. While formal Translation Request Thread exist, that doesn't mean regular members are prohibited from presenting their case regarding specific translations. The discussion is focused on the cosmology, and said member have simply elaborated on their views of the scans presented. Therefore, the comments are relevant and necessary. 'Unnecessary comments' would be those that fail to address the topic at hand, even in the least relevant sense, and instead pivot to something completely unrelated, such as different verses that has nothing to do with the verse (except in cases of whataboutism and such). That is not the case here. Your comment is the one unnecessary here so i am going to delete it.

Alright, do you agree with Elizhaa regarding the Higher Universes being H1B?

Also, please unlock the Yogiri page so I can apply the revisions to it for now. It seems that Oblivion Of The Endless may have forgotten to apply the part about removing the “Law” classification and restoring “The End.”

Yogiri Takatou

Yogiri Takato (高遠たかとお 夜よ霧ぎり, Takatō Yogiri?) is the main protagonist of the Instant Death series and a high school student who got transported to another world by a woman called Sion. After being abandoned to die by his classmates for being powerless, and asleep, alongside Tomochika, Ayaka...

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