One Piece Blue Planet Calc Revisions

[Billybobjoe321]

This is the current accepted Calc for the size of blue planet in One Piece.

However, there is one big problem with it. This is the panel used to scale the size of the grandline. The blog compares the size of Alabasta to the height of the panel to get the width of the grandline. But in doing this, it assumes the entire height of the panel is contained within the width of the grandline. This assumption has no backing to it, and the panel could very easily contain parts of the calm belt and even beyond.

“But then why don’t we see any other islands?”​

With the scale of Alabasta and the amount that the panel is zoomed out each and every pixel contains an area of over 227km by 227km. There is not even a single accepted island size in one piece that even gets to a NINTH of that area. On top of the fact that Alabasta could very easily be one of the islands near the edge of the grandline

The result of the calc can be considered a little inconsistent as well. Pre-timeskip one piece takes place of a period of less than a year, and they travel the distance from reverse mountain to sabaody by boat, almost halfway circumnavigating the planet. Assuming it took them exactly a year, and not counting the time they take on islands, they would have to be sailing at over 250kmph. And this would be a lowball considering all of the time not sailing, the fact they likely didn’t just sail in a straight line, and the time spent pre-timeskip not in the grandline. While I don’t expect everything in one piece to follow real world logic exactly, including boats, the implication of the going merry and sunny going at speeds much faster than 250km from an already flawed calc just adds further justification for why the current method should be revised.

That’s not the only faulty calc within that blog though. That blog also contains a calc for the size of the one piece moon, and this one is much more faulty. This is the scan used in the blog to scale the size of the moon. A few issues with this. The first and most glaring one is that the scale of the panel is completely off. The currents on reverse mountain are large in comparison to the planet itself. Keep in mind this is how large the currents on reverse mountain are consistently shown to be. Scaling off of this panel would get the entire planet about the size of a city. The second issue with using this scan to scale the moon, or anything in fact, is that it is completely non-canon. This scan comes from an adaptation of the Zoro vs Mihawk fight from Boichi. This is what our canon page says about adaptations:

Regarding Adaptations

Author approval alone does not confer canonical status upon adaptations. Such material is considered part of the primary continuity only when the creator or rights holders explicitly confirm its integration into, or priority over, the original timeline—for instance, through statements verifying that specific events, scenes, or elements genuinely occur within it

The only actual input oda had on the oneshot itself was him stating that he would like to see Zoro in Boichi’s style. There is nothing pointing to it being considered a real part of the continuity from the creator himself, or any rights holders.

This is a problem that was actually brought up in the original thread where the first calc method was accepted and was generally agreed upon and initially agreed upon from the blog creator themself.

Just my two cents but we shouldn't take Boichi's interpretation of redrawn manga chapters as being canonical. It's his vision of the chapter and we have no idea if Oda gave input like "Draw the planet's surface to be a certain shape here."

The comparison of sizes of the red line in that picture is drastically different from the one in the series

It was later accepted to be used in the first place on the basis of there being nothing better to use, and because it was considered tertiary canon and able to be used in absence of contradictions. which I find extremely weak reasoning.

Yeah going by our standards, this is blatantly a case of tertiary canon, and thus should be used in the absence of contradictory info from primary or secondary canon.

If we had a shot from Oda’s manga, we’d use it, but this is the best we got

Just because there’s nothing better to use, doesn’t mean we should just start resorting to non-canon and inconsistent sources, and it quite literally does contradict primary canon, which I shouldn’t need to re-demonstrate.

My proposal is to remove the current moon size calc and planet size calc.

Here is a list of calcs affected:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/One_Piece:_Space_Pirates_Excavation

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/One_Piece:_Mag_6_Worldwide_Quake

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...iece:_Blackbeard_Does_This_for_the_Fifth_Time

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/One_Piece:_The_Mother_Flame


Agree: Damage3245, Floxy178

Disagree: Dalesan027, M3X_2.0

 

[M3X_2.0]

@KingTempest @Damage3245

 

[Billybobjoe321]

@KingTempest @Damage3245

Floxy also showed interest

 

[SlendVeny]

The only actual input oda had on the oneshot itself was him stating that he would like to see Zoro in Boichi’s style.

That ain't all he said, say the Nami part coward

 

[Damage3245]

For the time being I currently agree with the OP's point regarding the scale of the panel making it impossible to determine if other islands are present or not, the lack of support for that panel containing the entire width of the Grand Line, the issue of the apparent speed required for the Going Merry / Thousand Sunny to accomplish a partial circumnavigation of the planet from this calced size, and the issue of Boichi's depiction of the planet and the Moon being unreliable and not truly canon.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Floxy also showed interest

@Floxy178

 

[Saqphire]

Following. Bonne chance man

 

[KingTempest]

Sheesh

Lemme park this car imma come back in an hour

 

[GG55HH]

Following

 

[KingTempest]

Boichi shit is right. We just are incapable of calculating the moon size without it so that's the best thing, but I could find something to use.

Planet stuff, no. I'll explain why today though.

 

[Saqphire]

Boichi shit is right. We just are incapable of calculating the moon size without it so that's the best thing, but I could find something to use.

What about the atlas that's shown in Ohara I believe it was? The one with six moons

 

[KingTempest]

What about the atlas that's shown in Ohara I believe it was? The one with six moons

this is the best case scenario but i'd always prefer actually seeing the damn moon instead of a model

 

[KingTempest]

So it looks like I need to make a blog about this because this is probably one of the worst arguments I've seen, no disrespect it's just bad, but it needs to be explained so that it's not repeated.

Alabasta isn't close to the Calm Belt by any means.

The Log Pose Route​

The Log Pose is the tool used to navigate the Grand Line. For the Grand Line, there are 7 routes that a person can take after they leave Reverse Mountain, and the Log Pose they take is stuck through that route.
As it stands, we do truly not know what route they took, it is not stated by any canon source that they took the middle path, but we know that it definitely isn't any outside path, and things hint to it being the middle path.

#1: The Direction They Went​

When Crocus was talking, we cans see that the highlighted route in his dialogue was the central path.
We can see that they didn't go out as far, they went relatively straight towards the center from Reverse Mountain (the waterfall signifies the center on every possible map). We can deduce that they didn't go to any of the outside routes, and they went to the center ones.

#2: Fishman Island as a Destination For the Straw Hats​

We can see in Chapter 105 and 498 that only the central path takes you to the center part of the Grand Line.
Fishman Island is at the Center of the Grand Line. We know this because it is directly below Mary Geoise, which is known as the Center of the World. So the Straw Hats took the log pose to the center path, which is Fishman Island, which means that the Central Path is the one they took.

It's different from going to FMI and your Log Pose saying you should go to FMI. FMI is a tourist spot, but the Log Pose of the Straw Hata directly said they should go there. They went towards the center.

Alabasta is on the center path that they took. It wouldn't be near the Calm Belt.
The calculation actually calcs the distance between Alabasta and the left and right paths, lowballs the Grand Line distance and says that the Grand Line is at minimum larger than the gap between 2 paths, then goes from there.

If anything it should be upgraded, I just wanted to be conservative.

Consistency​

Alabasta is not an outlier country whatsoever. WanoKuni, Elbaph, and other islands that we haven't explored show similar sizes.
We know as well that the usage of the Giro Giro allows the user to see 4000 km outwards from their vision, yet with this we've never seen another island in her view in the explanation. We've never seen her talk about a disconnected island, showing that it's consistent for the distance between islands to be that big.

Alabasta is a large country, and the islands are far from each other.

 

[Saqphire]

The Log Pose is the tool used to navigate the Grand Line. For the Grand Line, there are 7 routes that a person can take after they leave Reverse Mountain, and the Log Pose they take is stuck through that route.

This link is broken

 

[KingTempest]

This link is broken

Some of you guys can't use Imgur and that's okay.

 

[Kachon123]

It's also worth mentioning that using the size of Reverse Mountain's currents to discredit the validity of Boichi's moon depiction makes no sense. In any map you can find of the Blue Planet, the currents are illustrated at roughly the same scale relative to the globe to how Boichi drew them. Unless the OP is trying to downgrade the planet to literally "about the size of a city," the relevance of this point is unclear.

As for removing the moon size from the planet due to canonicity concerns, the OP doesn't seem to actually address a concrete issue that necessitates its removal. All that's been said by @Billybobjoe321 is that he finds the reasoning for using it extremely weak. However, it has already been acknowledged by everyone that Boichi’s Zoro vs Mihawk adaptation is considered tertiary canon, and this isn't even being contested as far as I'm aware. Unless the primary canon has a better showing of the Blue Planet's moon, or one that contradicts it, this should be usable (outside of the perspective issues).

 

[Saqphire]

Some of you guys can't use Imgur and that's okay.

All the other links work fine honestly. But yeah anyways.

this is the best case scenario but i'd always prefer actually seeing the damn moon instead of a model

The model is actually better cuz you won't fall under perspective issues I guess

 

[Billybobjoe321]

Alabasta isn't close to the Calm Belt by any means.

Alabasta being close to the calm belt was by no means my only argument. Throughout this response you don’t mention my point about boat speed.

When Crocus was talking, we cans see that the highlighted route in his dialogue was the central path.

This scan by no means proof for them taking the center path. It is just a panel demonstrating how the paths of the grandline work. Within the same panel Crocus even says “you must pick one of seven magnetic fields” and “no matter which Island you begin from all the routes eventually become one”. The path shown in the panel is demonstrating just what Crocus is currently talking about, not showing which of the paths the strawhats took. The strawhats haven’t even officially chosen a path yet at this time.

We can see that they didn't go out as far, they went relatively straight towards the center from Reverse Mountain

Them not taking a sharp angle straight out of reverse mountain does not mean they must’ve taken the center path. It’s not like each of the seven islands are so close to reverse mountain that they need to take an immediate sharp turn to be on course for any one of them. We don’t know how far out or how far across it would take to reach either of the islands nearest the edge.

We know this because it is directly below Mary Geoise, which is known as the Center of the World.

Mary Geoise is not called the center of the world because it’s in the middle of the red line relative to the grand line, it is called the center of the world because it is the capital of the world government.

FMI is a tourist spot,

Fish Man Island is much more than just a tourist spot, it is considered the only way to get past the red line for pirates

The calculation actually calcs the distance between Alabasta and the left and right paths,

I already mentioned in the OP about how that is not a reliable method. There is a whole section for it

WanoKuni, Elbaph, and other islands that we haven't explored show similar sizes

The first calc is not accepted whatsoever, and all the issues in it were outlined in this thread, which I guess you forgot about, which is also the same accepted thread that limits onigashima’s size to below 6km. The second calc has it’s issues outlined in the comments by Damage. Using an island full of literal GIANTS to support Alabasta not being an “outlier” is pretty ridiculous. Alabasta in universe is considered a large island. And none of this even if true really debunks my point about the possibility of the calm belt being included, even ignoring the possibility that Alabasta could be near the edge.

and other islands that we haven't explored show similar sizes

I have no Idea what you are referring to here.

We know as well that the usage of the Giro Giro allows the user to see 4000 km outwards from their vision, yet with this we've never seen another island in her view in the explanation. We've never seen her talk about a disconnected island

We never see the full extended vision of Viola, and why would she need to talk about a disconnected island?

showing that it's consistent for the distance between islands to be that big.

And why would this matter to the proposal? If we assume this whole viola point is true, and assume the distance between islands to be at least 4000km, the zoomed out panel of alabasta could still contain at least 40 islands assuming this distance.

Alabasta is a large country, and the islands are far from each other.

Neither of these statements are being argued against in the OP

In any map you can find of the Blue Planet, the currents are illustrated at roughly the same scale relative to the globe to how Boichi drew them. Unless the OP is trying to downgrade the planet to literally "about the size of a city," the relevance of this point is unclear.

None of those maps have accurate scaling. That simple. I really don’t understand this point. And how many of these are approved by Oda in the first place?

All that's been said by @Billybobjoe321 is that he finds the reasoning for using it extremely weak.

Which I explain in detail within the OP why. I give multiple reasons as to why the reasoning is weak. Again, theres a whole section for that within the OP.

Unless the primary canon has a better showing of the Blue Planet's moon, or one that contradicts it, this should be usable (outside of the perspective issues).

And I outline the contradictions within the OP. Which is one of the reasons I give for why it shouldn’t be used. Even how close the moon is to the planet is inconsistent with how the moon is shown.

 

[KingTempest]

Alabasta being close to the calm belt was by no means my only argument. Throughout this response you don’t mention my point about boat speed.

This scan by no means proof for them taking the center path. It is just a panel demonstrating how the paths of the grandline work. Within the same panel Crocus even says “you must pick one of seven magnetic fields” and “no matter which Island you begin from all the routes eventually become one”. The path shown in the panel is demonstrating just what Crocus is currently talking about, not showing which of the paths the strawhats took. The strawhats haven’t even officially chosen a path yet at this time.

Them not taking a sharp angle straight out of reverse mountain does not mean they must’ve taken the center path. It’s not like each of the seven islands are so close to reverse mountain that they need to take an immediate sharp turn to be on course for any one of them. We don’t know how far out or how far across it would take to reach either of the islands nearest the edge.

The whole point was that "it can't be the outer paths".

You fail to understand that even if it isn't the center path, it's for damn sure not the outer ones

Mary Geoise is not called the center of the world because it’s in the middle of the red line relative to the grand line, it is called the center of the world because it is the capital of the world government.

Dude WHAT?
It's called that because it's located in the center of the world.

Fish Man Island is much more than just a tourist spot, it is considered the only way to get past the red line for pirates

And nobody's log goes there from their routes. Anyone can get there but only the center path is actually connected to it through the routes, which is why people leave their routes to go to sabaody and such, yet sabaody is known as a tourist spot.

I already mentioned in the OP about how that is not a reliable method. There is a whole section for it

The section only said "it's incredulous for them to have travelled that much in this timeframe" which we can chalk up as a narrative inconsistency, unless you wanna say that the planet is smaller than america since it took a month to get across paradise?

The first calc is not accepted whatsoever, and all the issues in it were outlined in this thread, which I guess you forgot about, which is also the same accepted thread that limits onigashima’s size to below 6km.

Not a thing in that thread tackles wano being small. In fact, it tackles onigashima and onigashima alone being small. the thread acknowledged how freakishly huge wano is and that onigashima being small cannot limit wano

The second calc has it’s issues outlined in the comments by Damage, the result of the calc also get’s Elbaf’s diameter to close of the entire circumference of the current accepted planet calc, and using an island full of literal GIANTS to support Alabasta not being an “outlier” is pretty ridiculous.

Damage commented on the older version of the calculation. It was updated, and the update was accepted by another staff member

Alabasta in universe is considered a large island. And none of this even if true really debunks my point about the possibility of the calm belt being included, even ignoring the possibility that Alabasta could be near the edge.

If the entire point is that Alabasta could be near the edge

If Alabasta is in the middle of a large island path, we can tell that it's closer to those islands. then it would be to the calm belt. And if it's closer to those islands than the calm belt, it can be used to calculate the size of the grand line.

We never see the full extended vision of Viola, and why would she need to talk about a disconnected island?

We can tell through her vision that the grand line ain't that small

And why would this matter to the proposal? If we assume this whole viola point is true, and assume the distance between islands to be at least 4000km, the zoomed out panel of alabasta could still contain at least 40 islands assuming this distance.

dude... what?

Neither of these statements are being argued against in the OP

okay

 

[Kachon123]

Them not taking a sharp angle straight out of reverse mountain does not mean they must’ve taken the center path. It’s not like each of the seven islands are so close to reverse mountain that they need to take an immediate sharp turn to be on course for any one of them. We don’t know how far out or how far across it would take to reach either of the islands nearest the edge.

They were going straight. It's even said by Nami that they were going at a straight 180 degree angle from Reverse Mountain's exit.

 

[Billybobjoe321]

The whole point was that "it can't be the outer paths".

You fail to understand that even if it isn't the center path, it's for damn sure not the outer ones

You have failed to demonstrated why it couldn’t be one of the outer paths either, and it doesn’t need to be one of the very outer paths for the point to still work.

Dude WHAT?
It's called that because it's located in the center of the world.

This is very clearly figurative. It is not at the literal center of the world. And the center of a sphere would be inside of it. You are trying to argue it’s in the middle of the grand red line relative to the grand line, by arguing that it being at “the center of the world” is literal, when even if it was, it wouldn’t mean the middle of grand line, as that wouldn’t be the middle of the world. I already explained this, showing a panel of someone calling it the center of the world doesn’t really counter the point I already previously made about this.

Only the center path is actually connected to it through the routes,

This is something you have yet to prove

unless you wanna say that the planet is smaller than america since it took a month to get across paradise?

Where did you get that it took a month?

In fact, it tackles onigashima and onigashima alone being small. the thread acknowledged how freakishly huge wano is and that onigashima being small cannot limit wano

I guess you ignored the part about that calcs inaccuracies being laid out in that thread. And wano being over 1000 times bigger than onigashima seems pretty inaccurate.

Damage commented on the older version of the calculation. It was updated, and the update was accepted by another staff member

Damage’s comments still apply partly to the current version though. The calc scales the boat to a house that is closer to the pov and get’s the house almost 100x bigger than the average giant

If the entire point is that Alabasta could be near the edge

Yes that is a part of the point

If Alabasta is in the middle of a large island path, we can tell that it's closer to those islands. then it would be to the calm belt. And if it's closer to those islands than the calm belt, it can be used to calculate the size of the grand line.

I am struggling to understand your point here? You’re saying we could tell Alabasta is closer to islands within it’s path than it is to the calm belt to calculate the size of the grand line?

We can tell through her vision that the grand line ain't that small

Ain’t what small? I never make an assertion of the actual size of the grand line in the OP.

dude... what?

What?

They were going straight. It's even said by Nami that they were going at a straight 180 degree angle from Reverse Mountain's exit.

Yeah, that’s not how angles work. No matter which angle they started out from reverse mountain, if they were to turn around 180 degrees, they would be going back from where they came, reverse mountain.

 

[KingTempest]

You have failed to demonstrated why it couldn’t be one of the outer paths either, and it doesn’t need to be one of the very outer paths for the point to still work.

because if it was the outer paths, they would've beelined to the outer paths.
we see the route they took, it was straight ahead from the reverse mountain port, not far diagonal, straight.

This is very clearly figurative. It is not at the literal center of the world. And the center of a sphere would be inside of it. You are trying to argue it’s in the middle of the grand red line relative to the grand line, by arguing that it being at “the center of the world” is literal, when even if it was, it wouldn’t mean the middle of grand line, as that wouldn’t be the middle of the world.

Do you not realize that an entire chunk of the world is called the "middle east" because it's the middle of the east?
You can graph landmarks and find centers.

This is something you have yet to prove

look at the map?

Where did you get that it took a month?

Vivre card dates

I guess you ignored the part about that calcs inaccuracies being laid out in that thread. And wano being over 1000 times bigger than onigashima seems pretty inaccurate.

yeah being bigger than an uncalced island is so crazy

Damage’s comments still apply partly to the current version though. The calc scales the boat to a house that is closer to the pov and get’s the house almost 100x bigger than the average giant

we're not getting into a dragged out conversation regarding this

Yes that is a part of the point

I am struggling to understand your point here? You’re saying we could tell Alabasta is closer to islands within it’s path than it is to the calm belt to calculate the size of the grand line?

you said "maybe the calm belt is involved"
the calm belt is 3 paths over. if the calm belt was there, we would've seen other islands that are in the pathway

Ain’t what small? I never make an assertion of the actual size of the grand line in the OP.

What?

The whole point is that the gap between islands is far

 

[Kachon123]

Yeah, that’s not how angles work. No matter which angle they started out from reverse mountain, if they were to turn around 180 degrees, they would be going back from where they came, reverse mountain.

If they went to one of the routes that isn't straight from reverse mountain and then they turned around 180 degrees, they would not be going back to Crocus.

 

[KingTempest]

If they went to one of the routes that isn't straight from reverse mountain and then they turned around 180 degrees, they would not be going back to Crocus.

straight as in forward*

 

[Kachon123]

Yeah

 

[Billybobjoe321]

because if it was the outer paths, they would've beelined to the outer paths.
we see the route they took, it was straight ahead from the reverse mountain port, not far diagonal, straight.

I already went over this.

Them not taking a sharp angle straight out of reverse mountain does not mean they must’ve taken the center path. It’s not like each of the seven islands are so close to reverse mountain that they need to take an immediate sharp turn to be on course for any one of them. We don’t know how far out or how far across it would take to reach either of the islands nearest the edge.

Do you not realize that an entire chunk of the world is called the "middle east" because it's the middle of the east?
You can graph landmarks and find centers

Yeah, but you cannot find the center of the world.

look at the map?

I have, and it doesn’t prove it either

Vivre card dates

Can you link them?

yeah being bigger than an uncalced island is so crazy

Great strawman

we're not getting into a dragged out conversation regarding this

Ok?

you said "maybe the calm belt is involved"
the calm belt is 3 paths over. if the calm belt was there, we would've seen other islands that are in the pathway

Dang! That’s a good point. If only I included a section in my OP specifically dedicated to that

The whole point is that the gap between islands is far

which is not something being argued against in general

If they went to one of the routes that isn't straight from reverse mountain and then they turned around 180 degrees, they would not be going back to Crocus.

not true. Start walking in a straight line from a specific point, then turn 180 degrees and continue walking, you will notice that you are now going towards the point you cam from, no matter the angle you came from that point

 

[Kachon123]

not true. Start walking in a straight line from a specific point, then turn 180 degrees and continue walking, you will notice that you are now going towards the point you cam from, no matter the angle you came from that point

You're confused.

If the crew started moving in the same direction that reverse mountain's exit opens out to, but at some point steered the Going Merry to the left or right to reach another route as you've claimed, them turning 180 degrees would lead them to one of these areas, not back to Crocus.

The fact that it was stated that they were on a straight course to Whisky Peak after seeing them leave from reverse mountain's center, with it also being stated that it's impossible to change routes, indicates that they chose the middle route. Anything else is baseless assumptions and needless skepticism.

 

[KingTempest]

I already went over this.

Your explanation was bad, and honestly, it's just based out of ignorance, and I'll explain further.

Yeah, but you cannot find the center of the world.

If you map out the general map of the world, which we see in chapter 105 and chapter 498 with the grand line as the center, which the world references as the center since they refer to the seas as the "north", "south", "east", and "west" blues, with the grand line being the center, you will inevitably find the "center".
There is a center of the globe when you look at the world map. Which is why the Equator and the Prime Meridian go through the vertical and horizontal "middle" of the planet.

If you deadass think there is no such thing as the "center of the world" then you are speaking from a level of ignorance I can not argue with.

I have, and it doesn’t prove it either

Respectfully, are you reading?
Marijoa in every showing of the planet is shown to be smack dab in the middle of the Grand Line. In fact, it's shown as an arrow pointed to the CENTER of the grand line.
Fish man Island is directly under it.
Which means that Fish Man Island is directly in the Center of the Grand Line.
The routes on Chapters 105 and 498 show that certain routes get the signals from islands on the other side of the red line but the log pose routes do not all go to the center island. Although people do pass by there due to it being the only way of getting around, it is not where their logs send them to, and Fishman Island is only accessible by the center path because the most central island in the map is only shown through the Central Path.

Can you link them?

I'm not digging for the scans but they're vivre card dates talking about how February 18th-19th was when Whiskey Peak happened due to the creation of the "Snowman" and March 22 was when Enies Lobby ended due to the creation of the Sunny.

The rest of your points make 0 sense.

 

[KingTempest]

“But then why don’t we see any other islands?”​

With the scale of Alabasta and the amount that the panel is zoomed out each and every pixel contains an area of over 227km by 227km. There is not even a single accepted island size in one piece that even gets to a NINTH of that area. On top of the fact that Alabasta could very easily be one of the islands near the edge of the grandline

This is horrible by the way. I know you're emphasizing this but it is just wrong.

How the Grand Line works is that each island has its own separate climate and separate weather.
As you approach a new island, you approach a new climate. This is consistent in every island we see on the Grand Line.
The panel showed the climate of the one Island that is in that area raining.
If Oda wanted to showcase that there was an island there, he would've did so
A. In his zoom in.
B. By drawing dots of other islands, which we don't see and we only see waves when he could've drawn brown dots.
C. With whatever the hell else.
The entire purpose of the panel in that frame was to showcase the area that rained during the fall of Crocodile, what was being zoomed in on was the rain that hit the large climate, turning the summer island into a place of rain.

Oda managed to show a 50km crack in that panel. Oda showcased changes in the water. You think the minimum he would be able to show on the panel is 227km?

The Calm Belt has no breeze, no waves, nothing, yet we can see there's waves at the top and bottom of the panel that we use.
Don't say those are birds either cause the same thing is here even closer at the altitude of where birds fly.

Your argument is just wrong. Stop telling us to go back to that point when it's based on literal "no way it could be this".

 

[Yoh_Asakura8]

I agree with KT but i'll wait for damage's evaluation on the topic 1st.

 

[Damage3245]

I wish I didn't have to have slept through the discussion. I'll catch up on the thread and post later today.

 

[Damage3245]

I'll start my response by just addressing the major counter-arguments first:

Alabasta isn't close to the Calm Belt by any means.

The Log Pose Route​

The Log Pose is the tool used to navigate the Grand Line. For the Grand Line, there are 7 routes that a person can take after they leave Reverse Mountain, and the Log Pose they take is stuck through that route.
As it stands, we do truly not know what route they took, it is not stated by any canon source that they took the middle path, but we know that it definitely isn't any outside path, and things hint to it being the middle path.

#1: The Direction They Went​

When Crocus was talking, we cans see that the highlighted route in his dialogue was the central path.
We can see that they didn't go out as far, they went relatively straight towards the center from Reverse Mountain (the waterfall signifies the center on every possible map). We can deduce that they didn't go to any of the outside routes, and they went to the center ones.

#2: Fishman Island as a Destination For the Straw Hats​

We can see in Chapter 105 and 498 that only the central path takes you to the center part of the Grand Line.
Fishman Island is at the Center of the Grand Line. We know this because it is directly below Mary Geoise, which is known as the Center of the World. So the Straw Hats took the log pose to the center path, which is Fishman Island, which means that the Central Path is the one they took.

It's different from going to FMI and your Log Pose saying you should go to FMI. FMI is a tourist spot, but the Log Pose of the Straw Hata directly said they should go there. They went towards the center.

Alabasta is on the center path that they took. It wouldn't be near the Calm Belt.
The calculation actually calcs the distance between Alabasta and the left and right paths, lowballs the Grand Line distance and says that the Grand Line is at minimum larger than the gap between 2 paths, then goes from there.

If anything it should be upgraded, I just wanted to be conservative.

I don't see how the calculation can reasonably assume that the "left and right paths" are off-screen for that panel. The paths being invisible sea routes between islands; it is relying on us being unable to determine that there are any islands present on the panel which would indicate the presence of other paths through the Grand Line on the panel. You address the visibility of other islands issue in another post, so I'll respond to that below.

Consistency​

Alabasta is not an outlier country whatsoever. WanoKuni, Elbaph, and other islands that we haven't explored show similar sizes.

The examples of Wano and Elbaph, both on the other side of the world in the other half of the Grand Line, doesn't particularly help us. All it shows is that some large islands do exist in the world, but that's not the same thing as proving that Alabasta is not exceptionally large when it comes to most islands that we've witnessed throughout the Grand Line and the world at large.

Many islands are far, far smaller than this; and it doesn't give us a reason to think that other islands near to Alabasta are of comparable size to it.

We know as well that the usage of the Giro Giro allows the user to see 4000 km outwards from their vision, yet with this we've never seen another island in her view in the explanation. We've never seen her talk about a disconnected island, showing that it's consistent for the distance between islands to be that big.

Alabasta is a large country, and the islands are far from each other.

I fail to see the relevance of Violet's Devil Fruit power here. Just because Violet doesn't specifically mention being able to see other islands with her power doesn't prove there aren't islands closer than 4000 km to her.

Even if we did assume that this was the case, all it would prove is that there are no islands closer than 4000 km away to Dressrosa. It wouldn't give us an average gap between all islands on the Grand Line.

This is horrible by the way. I know you're emphasizing this but it is just wrong.

How the Grand Line works is that each island has its own separate climate and separate weather.
As you approach a new island, you approach a new climate. This is consistent in every island we see on the Grand Line.
The panel showed the climate of the one Island that is in that area raining.
If Oda wanted to showcase that there was an island there, he would've did so
A. In his zoom in.
B. By drawing dots of other islands, which we don't see and we only see waves when he could've drawn brown dots.
C. With whatever the hell else.
The entire purpose of the panel in that frame was to showcase the area that rained during the fall of Crocodile, what was being zoomed in on was the rain that hit the large climate, turning the summer island into a place of rain.

Oda managed to show a 50km crack in that panel. Oda showcased changes in the water. You think the minimum he would be able to show on the panel is 227km?

The Calm Belt has no breeze, no waves, nothing, yet we can see there's waves at the top and bottom of the panel that we use.
Don't say those are birds either cause the same thing is here even closer at the altitude of where birds fly.

I don't think it is the case that the individual island's micro-climates will necessarily be visible from the perspective of the panel in question. For example, in these panels we can see that there are clouds directly over Alabasta, yet from the further-zoomed out panel we can't see those clouds at all and only see the ones closer to the perspective of the panel. It shows that details that are visible from a zoomed-in perspective won't necessarily be included in a zoomed-out perspective. Like the city visible here not being visible anywhere here.

Aside from that though, this counter-argument is heavily dependent on assuming authorial intent. The OP is not arguing that Oda wanted to showcase the presence of other islands in the panel; he's arguing that the sheer scale of the zoomed-out perspective and the lack of resolution we have to work with makes it impossible to detirmine for certain that there are no other islands present. If the OP is correct that a single pixel of that panel is equivalent to a 227 km by 227 km square, then there are numerous islands within One Piece that could fit into a single pixel there and be almost impossible to spot. The OP's point isn't that other islands must be there, but rather that the visuals in the panel alone cannot reliably confirm their absence, which is important if the calculation is relying on that assumption of no other islands being nearby to argue that the edge of the Grand Line is much further away.

The texturing of the water there isn't necessarily significant. Oda doesn't draw the Calm Belt as being a glassy smooth featureless expanse of sea. In this panel where we're introduced to the Calm Belt, we can still see some texture on the surface of the sea. Same for the surface of the Calm Belt here which has visible peaks despite no wind. We don't get many aerial shots of the Calm Belt so we can't say for certain that there'd be a significantly noticeable change in how Oda would texture the water from above.

More importantly than issues with the assumptions of the calc, though I don't think anyone has address the travel speed issues argument brought up by the OP:

The result of the calc can be considered a little inconsistent as well. Pre-timeskip one piece takes place of a period of less than a year, and they travel the distance from reverse mountain to sabaody by boat, almost halfway circumnavigating the planet. Assuming it took them exactly a year, and not counting the time they take on islands, they would have to be sailing at over 250kmph. And this would be a lowball considering all of the time not sailing, the fact they likely didn’t just sail in a straight line, and the time spent pre-timeskip not in the grandline. While I don’t expect everything in one piece to follow real world logic exactly, including boats, the implication of the going merry and sunny going at speeds much faster than 250km from an already flawed calc just adds further justification for why the current method should be revised.

The OP is being very geneorus here in assuming an entire year of nonstop travel time for the Straw Hats to travel roughly half of the planet's circumference. The actual travel time is significantly less than that considering the large amount of time spent on islands, taking detours, etc.

The apparently "lowball" version of the calculation based on Alabasta and assumptions of distance to the edge of the Grand Line has the total length of half of the world's circumference being 2,476,084 kilometers.

From what I've read, sailing ships typically can travel up to 8 knots, or 14.816 kilometers per hour. To traverse the distance above would require almost exactly 19 years of nonstop sailing.

We know that ships in One Piece aren't supernaturally fast; they typically require the wind otherwise they come to a dead stop in the Calm Belt. Taking in the sails in Water 7 made the Straw Hats a sitting duck for the Marines. The Thousand Sunny's Coup de Burst feature launches the ship a kilometer away, which is enough to gain them a huge lead over pursuing Marine ships; if the Marine ships could simply travel a kilometer in a matter of seconds then this kind of distance gap would've posed no problem for them to catch up. There is more than enough narrative consistency to demonstrate this, and makes the implications of the currently used calculation unreasonable.

I get wanting to have a planet size calculation available to use for calculating other feats - but there comes a point where the results of a calculation are too inconsistent with the original work to be considered reliable. A calculation can use reasonable pixelscaling, and use arguably reasonable assumptions, but it can still produce an unreasonable result.

 

[Billybobjoe321]

How the Grand Line works is that each island has its own separate climate and separate weather.
As you approach a new island, you approach a new climate. This is consistent in every island we see on the Grand Line.
The panel showed the climate of the one Island that is in that area raining.

The climate of each island isn’t something that would be able to be seen at all in the zoomed out panel, for example
here when we see the strawhats coming up on drum island, an island with an separate climate, the clouds above the island itself wouldn’t be high enough to notice at all within the zoomed out panel we get.

If Oda wanted to showcase that there was an island there, he would've did so

Ah, the ol authors intent. Oda would have no reason to specifically point out other island within that panel. What do you want him to do? Draw little arrows to a few random spots saying “there are islands here by the way” in the middle of an emotional moment?

A. In his zoom in.

The zoom in that is only 5 panels, with only two of which showing the entirety of Alabasta? One of which barely contains anything past Alabasta, and the other is 1000x more zoomed out? which only And again, how would he show that?

B. By drawing dots of other islands, which we don't see and we only see waves when he could've drawn brown dots.

I specifically mention in the OP that the size of the islands wouldn’t likely be visible even if it was a single pixel. And I find it weird you specifically mention brown dots, as Oda does not do the full color one piece. You also mention dots too. Which, you know, there are in the panel. So if dots are enough to demonstrate there being other islands there, then wouldn’t the dots on the panel demonstrate just that by your logic?

C. With whatever the hell else.

And you have no other ideas.

The entire purpose of the panel in that frame was to showcase the area that rained during the fall of Crocodile, what was being zoomed in on was the rain that hit the large climate, turning the summer island into a place of rain.

Yes? I struggle to find your point here.

Oda managed to show a 50km crack in that panel.

No, he didn’t

You think the minimum he would be able to show on the panel is 227km?

Yes, quite literally that is the scale of each pixel within the panel. I don’t think there is really any arguing that.

The Calm Belt has no breeze, no waves, nothing,

Nope, the calm belt does indeed have waves

 

[Billybobjoe321]

If you map out the general map of the world, which we see in chapter 105 and chapter 498 with the grand line as the center,

Those are not maps of the world in those chapters. Those are specifically maps of the grand line

which the world references as the center since they refer to the seas as the "north", "south", "east", and "west" blues, with the grand line being the center, you will inevitably find the "center".

You cannot find the center of a globe purely off of what’s considered the north south east and west. The surface of a globe is impossible to find the center of, as it is continuous.

There is a center of the globe when you look at the world map. Which is why the Equator and the Prime Meridian go through the vertical and horizontal "middle" of the planet.

impossible to change routes, indicates that they chose the middle route. Anything else is baseless assumptions and needless skepticism.
[/QUOTE]
Again, I have already responded to this point

Them not taking a sharp angle straight out of reverse mountain does not mean they must’ve taken the center path. It’s not like each of the seven islands are so close to reverse mountain that they need to take an immediate sharp turn to be on course for any one of them. We don’t know how far out or how far across it would take to reach either of the islands nearest the edge.

 

[Saqphire]

Count me neutral, but leaning towards BBJ and Damage after reading both sides. The arguments for proving how they had to have went through the centre path aren't compelling enough to me

 

[Billybobjoe321]

my second response is not showing properly for some reason so here is a photo of it

 

[KingTempest]

I don't see how the calculation can reasonably assume that the "left and right paths" are off-screen for that panel. The paths being invisible sea routes between islands; it is relying on us being unable to determine that there are any islands present on the panel which would indicate the presence of other paths through the Grand Line on the panel. You address the visibility of other islands issue in another post, so I'll respond to that below.

I'll tackle this below

The examples of Wano and Elbaph, both on the other side of the world in the other half of the Grand Line, doesn't particularly help us. All it shows is that some large islands do exist in the world, but that's not the same thing as proving that Alabasta is not exceptionally large when it comes to most islands that we've witnessed throughout the Grand Line and the world at large.

The location of the other islands mean very little. An island is an island.

Alabasta is known as a large island to the point where it is seen as a country with large states and cities in it. Alabasta is one of the few islands known for being a "country", contrasted with the other islands that usually hold one city and such. Alabasta is one of the nations known to have a formal government with relations with the World Government. They are large enough to be an established colony.
Meanwhile the other islands are the size of a chunk of football fields and they hold either a forest ora city.

The purpose of Alabasta is to be a different beast regarding landmarks compared to the rest of the islands around it which are just tourist traps the size of my street.

This is like saying that Australia needs to be as big as the other continents due to their sizes. Alabasta is fine to be as big as it is due to its narrative significance.

I fail to see the relevance of Violet's Devil Fruit power here. Just because Violet doesn't specifically mention being able to see other islands with her power doesn't prove there aren't islands closer than 4000 km to her.

Viola was overall ignorant of the events of Punk Hazard, the closest island to Dressrosa, and only when the Straw Hats entered the open water the night after they left Punk Hazard and before they entered Dressrosa did she show signs of noticing them. If she saw Punk Hazard, the closest island to DR that you can get to in a day, she would've been acting weird prior to that previous night.

We know her ability shows things without her having to hone in on it due to the fact that she could tell things happening outside of Dressrosa without expecting it to happen, like the Sunny getting struck by lightning.

So we know that due to the arrival of the Straw Hats during that night portion after they
A. Escaped Punk Hazard's Climate
B. Entered the mid climate portion
C. Haven't entered Dressrosa's climate
And her reaction to their presence entering her range after she used her ability, it shows that she couldn't see other islands from Dressrosa, cause the relatively close one couldn't be seen.

Even if we did assume that this was the case, all it would prove is that there are no islands closer than 4000 km away to Dressrosa. It wouldn't give us an average gap between all islands on the Grand Line.

It would show significance. Punk Hazard is an island noted to be relatively close to Dressrosa that can be traveled to in a day, and even in that they still have an island gap so far that the climates conflict and produce sea disturbances, so if we know that "close islands" are over 4000km away, then we know the average ones are as well.

I don't think it is the case that the individual island's micro-climates will necessarily be visible from the perspective of the panel in question. For example, in these panels we can see that there are clouds directly over Alabasta, yet from the further-zoomed out panel we can't see those clouds at all and only see the ones closer to the perspective of the panel. It shows that details that are visible from a zoomed-in perspective won't necessarily be included in a zoomed-out perspective. Like the city visible here not being visible anywhere here.

Aside from that though, this counter-argument is heavily dependent on assuming authorial intent. The OP is not arguing that Oda wanted to showcase the presence of other islands in the panel; he's arguing that the sheer scale of the zoomed-out perspective and the lack of resolution we have to work with makes it impossible to detirmine for certain that there are no other islands present. If the OP is correct that a single pixel of that panel is equivalent to a 227 km by 227 km square, then there are numerous islands within One Piece that could fit into a single pixel there and be almost impossible to spot. The OP's point isn't that other islands must be there, but rather that the visuals in the panel alone cannot reliably confirm their absence, which is important if the calculation is relying on that assumption of no other islands being nearby to argue that the edge of the Grand Line is much further away.

Besides the fact that those clouds (your link is broken) are one of those dumb shockwave clouds Oda likes to draw during combat that looks more like signification that rain is falling that he likes to draw when characters are fighting like how he has clear skies but whenever something is moving fast through the air we get those dumb clouds, you fail to understand the point.

I'll say this again.
The significance of the shot shown is to show the overall Alabasta climate.
Like I said
"The entire purpose of the panel in that frame was to showcase the area that rained during the fall of Crocodile, what was being zoomed in on was the rain that hit the large climate, turning the summer island into a place of rain."

We know that for every single Island in One Piece regarding the climate, there is a general area for where every stable body. is set. Whether in Paradise or the New World.
In the planet upgrade thread we see this, but I guess I need to bring it back up here with a lot more scans.

The Grand Line is an amalgamation of ridiculous islands and unsafe weather, and due to the existence of the varying islands with clashing climates, the weather around each island in the grand line is stable, until you escape that specific region.

It starts off first as you escape the Twin Capes, where due to the seven islands and the clashing magnetic fields and climates, there are rapid weather changes in seconds. You will see that the moment that they enter the Island's Climate Zone, the weather stabilizes, the sea stabilizes, and so on.

Stable weather signifies "single island climate". Wherever there is a single unchanged weather, it means that they are leaving the Climate Zone of the Island they were previously on. We see this as how they left Little Garden's Climate Zone and a ferocious cyclone appeared. Even the smallest instance when close to a climate (if not already in one) is a lightning bolt the size of a school.

We see as they leave Water 7, the weird climate is back. Then they leave the zone again, the weird climate is back.

The entire shot we see below is the zone of Alabasta. We know this because the closest island to Alabasta canonically (in 1 direction) is Drum island, a Winter Island with a snowy climate. This is why the next island that the Log measured from Drum Island was Alabasta, because there wasn't anything near it, and this is why the next one after that was Skypiea completely far away, because there wasn't anything near it again.

We would see snow clouds or a different color climate, but we never do. Everything is stagnant.

To make this claim that there's islands close to it would be dishonest. We know if there were islands near it, it would've been snowing in one of those areas, or another event would have happened in the wide shot of the climate. Because canonicaly, if you are near an island in One Piece, there is calm, and when you are far enough away, there is not, yet in the entire shot we see it is strictly calm.

One Piece explains these island scenarios, and to chalk it up to "an island is too small for a pixel" is probably the worst point you can use against it. Alabasta is an island within a zone, and no other island inhabits it. This is why when they leave Alabasta to the next closest island, they wonder what island the next one is, and when they enter Jaya's climate zone, they note that due to the stable island climate, they are in a different zone that is supposed to have a different weather, shown as they think it's a spring island due to the different weather.

TLDR
Different islands have different climates, and between the different climates are chaotic areas of water.
The shot shown in the overhead showed Alabasta's climate zone, and the closest islands to Alabasta are in completely different climate zones.
Outside of Alabasta's climate would show turbulent weather.
This weather was stagnant, the ocean was regular, and nothing changed throughout the entirety of the area, and they would've seen something else in the overhead if the overhead showed different climates.

So unless you have a better argument as to why this would encapsulate the shot, it doesn't work.

The texturing of the water there isn't necessarily significant. Oda doesn't draw the Calm Belt as being a glassy smooth featureless expanse of sea. In this panel where we're introduced to the Calm Belt, we can still see some texture on the surface of the sea. Same for the surface of the Calm Belt here which has visible peaks despite no wind. We don't get many aerial shots of the Calm Belt so we can't say for certain that there'd be a significantly noticeable change in how Oda would texture the water from above.

There is always going to be drawn texture in a place of water so that the 3d depth of the author can be portrayed.
It is not the same thing as whatever the hell those waves are in the overhead shot of Alabasta. Those are huge noticeable waves if they can be seen in the panels compared to Alabasta, while the calm belt has no such thing.

In fact, in the Chap 101 scan you use, the only reason why it even has moving water is the residuals from the grand line.

More importantly than issues with the assumptions of the calc, though I don't think anyone has address the travel speed issues argument brought up by the OP:

The OP is being very geneorus here in assuming an entire year of nonstop travel time for the Straw Hats to travel roughly half of the planet's circumference. The actual travel time is significantly less than that considering the large amount of time spent on islands, taking detours, etc.

The apparently "lowball" version of the calculation based on Alabasta and assumptions of distance to the edge of the Grand Line has the total length of half of the world's circumference being 2,476,084 kilometers.

From what I've read, sailing ships typically can travel up to 8 knots, or 14.816 kilometers per hour. To traverse the distance above would require almost exactly 19 years of nonstop sailing.

We know that ships in One Piece aren't supernaturally fast; they typically require the wind otherwise they come to a dead stop in the Calm Belt. Taking in the sails in Water 7 made the Straw Hats a sitting duck for the Marines. The Thousand Sunny's Coup de Burst feature launches the ship a kilometer away, which is enough to gain them a huge lead over pursuing Marine ships; if the Marine ships could simply travel a kilometer in a matter of seconds then this kind of distance gap would've posed no problem for them to catch up. There is more than enough narrative consistency to demonstrate this, and makes the implications of the currently used calculation unreasonable.

Exhibit A. The Merry was able to swim up 7000 meters of water in 1 exact minute in a spiral formation prior to the usage of its wings. In a straight line, this would be 116.666666667 m/s, which only increases when you consider they went in a spiral around it, in contrast to the ridiculous 4 meters per second figure you found. At minimum the Merry is capable of moving at Subsonic Speeds, and the Merry is a Caravel ship, not even meant to sail these landmarks.
Exhibit B. The Merry was able to go down the Sandora River and the long way around Alabasta in a few hours. At max, 12 hours. Just saying it took 12 hours to go a 3rd of Alabasta's height, 7955 km, that's already 61.3811728395 m/s, and to consider it wrapping around, that's easily like 200+ m/s
Exhibit C. The time it took above for the Sunny to enter Viola's range then reach Dressrosa was less than a day due to the fact that it'd take a day to reach Dressrosa and she recognized them after they entered the open sea due to my showings. 4000 km in a day is over 46 m/s, and this is a lowball since it was probably like 8 hours.
Exhibit D. The Merry moves so fast when it desires that it leaves a trail of water shot into the air.
Exhibit E. The Merry dodges cannonball fire.
Exhibit F. The Merry consistently outruns various Sea Beasts, who would be around the speed of Momoo who has a top speed of 70 km/h or 20 m/s.
Exhibit G. The Polar Tang dodges lasers.

Oda allows his ships to move as fast as he wants them to. This is a non argument.

 

[Damage3245]

Thanks for responding. I won't be able to respond until tomorrow.

 

[KingTempest]

Thanks for responding. I won't be able to respond until tomorrow.

Understood, hope all is well

 

[Damage3245]

Understood, hope all is well

Haha, thanks, just heading out to the cinema and then straight to sleep as soon as it's done.