Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[Snek]

This animation is wildly smooth so I figured I should probably share it.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

If we get in the specific details, nothing will be able to be in the same timeline because the contradictions. There are literal hard contradictions with IDW between canon to it even on the most basic levels, and all that the staff could say is "it happens, there's no way out of it due to how the process was done".

One of the most obvious ones being the complete lack of Rings (both in name and in appearance) in IDW. Prime Sonic which has even more contradictions with the canon than IDW still remembered to include Rings lol!

Being on the lore team is an unenviable job tbh, even for those who can understand both English and Japanese.

IDW nerfs the entire Sonic cast. I wouldn't be surprised if Sage is as strong as her Frontiers self in an actual game.

I mean powerscaling aside, IDW nerfs aspects of the cast and the world-building. Seriously why introduce a mafia boss villain (Clutch) in a world where money apparently doesn't exist? Is G.U.N still recovering from the war or what? What exactly is the long term plan for protagonist level characters like Blaze, Silver, Knuckles, etc outside just being support or being conveniently indisposed?

Ofc the biggest one being the human sized elephant in the room but that point has been brought up enough already... over the years... f*ck.

Heck, part of the reason why I prefer reboot Archie over the original Archie was BECAUSE they tried tying the games into it more while still applying Archie-original content in a way that felt surprisingly natural. Again, though, I'm probably in the minority on that one...

Reboot Archie was as close to a perfect middle ground as we'll likely get between the fidelity of the games and the originality of the comics while both naturally complement each other rather than stepping on each other's toes. Not having an unlikeable try-hard version of Shadow also helps too.

On a side note, we all know why Sonic Chronicles is non-canon yet it still sad to me a nearly two decade old DS game that was setup to fail even before being released (last minute midi music ost FTW lol!), still (more consistently) understood the fundamental lore, world building and characters of the Sonic franchise better than either IDW or Prime (which both get the "canon" label).

 

[JJSliderman]

She doesn't, what are you talking about?

IDW Sage is a hard light construct while Frontiers Sage is a purely digital being who is effectively a living soul, very different

 

[Omegabronic]

IDW Sage is a hard light construct while Frontiers Sage is a purely digital being who is effectively a living soul, very different

That second part comes from... where? Regardless... she states that her body is now a hard light construct... which... duh? How else did you thought she interacted with physical stuff like Knuckles in Frontiers?... it doesn't make much sense if she is literally uninteractable

 

[Omegabronic]

One of the most obvious ones being the complete lack of Rings (both in name and in appearance) in IDW. Prime Sonic which has even more contradictions with the canon than IDW still remembered to include Rings lol!

We rate IDW as secondary canon for a good reason

 

[TMaakkonen]

He used Ring Spark Field and the Maximum Overdrive sometimes.

He's used the V Maximum overdrive attack and has also used the Black Shield a bunch of times.

I meant chest laser and energy ball attacks. Those are MIA in comics.

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

Alright...this speed shit is pissing me off more & more by the second because of what it entails. Incredibly arbitrary to compare a random end to another instead of going peak-to-peak. Every match up going foward is going to do this shit. I thought they'd learn by itty bitty, teenie weenie, subatomic 2026, but apparently not.

 

[TMaakkonen]

Uhh just took a relook and it appears Sage's character profile in #85 says "artificial intelligence, recently reborn" so make that of what you will lmao

I mean ig since Sage has a new body from that floating device New Horizon's ending could still work shrug :V

 

[Executor_N0]

On a side note, we all know why Sonic Chronicles is non-canon yet it still sad to me a nearly two decade old DS game that was setup to fail even before being released (last minute midi music ost FTW lol!), still (more consistently) understood the fundamental lore, world building and characters of the Sonic franchise better than either IDW or Prime (which both get the "canon" label).

I think one thing people will learn eventually is that, on a practical side, as much as some would want canon to mean consistency, it actually just means accepted tradition. It's good when it makes sense, and things are logical, but in many cases, it's just something accepted because it can and is useful to be.

Not a thing just for fictional works, even the religious canon that is what this Western Concept of Canon is inspired by had a lot of that. Like how the Pericope Adulterae is known to not be in the oldest manuscripts, but is widely accepted as canon by the Catholic Church, not by the Protestants, and so on. While something like the Book of Enoch, which is directly quoted in the accepted canonical books, is not. Of course, there are various reasons for all of this, but I think it goes on to show that canonicity isn't really as solid as some would like it to be; it's in many ways a question of dogma (Even if some try to support it with more historical evidence).

 

[MysticMania]

My conspiracy theory is that Evan nerfed Sage was that Belle would look good like she did in the issue itself.

You will crash the aluminum market by carrying that conspiracy.

 

[MysticMania]

Well that's all that I will say for dunking on IDW and to give it it's flowers I have a question.

Sonic question time: What is your favorite aspect of the Sonic IDW comics or one of your favorite aspects.

For me my first favorite thing is the new characters as I really like almost every single one of them down to even the side characters like Night the Rooster and Dawn the Owl. As for the second closest thing I really like the action in IDW whenever they lock in. Fights like Sonic vs Neo Metal Sonic, Super Neo Metal Sonic dunking on Sonic and Knuckles, Sonic vs Surge, Eggman vs Starline and so on are really enjoyable to read.

I like getting to see stories that show the characters interacting and showing off the world. If we ever got a second ongoing comic, I'd want it to focus on a different overall cast, with slowpacing and aiming for an older audience. Basically the opposite of the current comic, since I think having that opposite could help explore the world and characters even better than just one comic alone.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Sonic question time: What is your favorite aspect of the Sonic IDW comics or one of your favorite aspects.

The artstyles of the issues are more often hits than they are misses. I think the only particular one I dislike is the one who did Issue 3 of IDW, I dislike the more "toony" style. I can appreciate it, though.

For me my first favorite thing is the new characters as I really like almost every single one of them down to even the side characters like Night the Rooster and Dawn the Owl.

They range from amazing to forgettable for me. I just hope Tangle and Whisper aren't relegated as a mandatory pair during every single appearance in the comics and whatnot. I understand them being on the Diamond Cutters together and etcetera, but Whisper is quite literally at her best with her skillset when flying solo.

As for the second closest thing I really like the action in IDW whenever they lock in.

I just wish they would let the characters use more of their abilities, that would be cool...

 

[Tyranno223]

He used Ring Spark Field and the Maximum Overdrive sometimes.

I think he's used both only once in IDW. Modern IDW at least, I don't think he's used either in any of his Classic appearances.

Meanwhile he spams them in game.

 

[TheStinkeer]

Some maybe more evidence for the laser in the Oil Ocean boss / Eggmarine to be a legit laser. While it does it in a pretty unrealistic way, it still heats up the ground and starts a fire as glides along it

This animation is wildly smooth so I figured I should probably share it.

I'm surprised at how fast they made since it's been like 1 day, maybe less for them. I know it uses shots that reduce the amount of work you have to do but still

 

[Theuser789]

This animation is wildly smooth so I figured I should probably share it.

Infinitechads won so hard.

 

[TMaakkonen]

I mean tbh I didnt want Infinite to burn bridges entirely with Eggman. What made up arbitary team will he be in next racing game???

 

[Theuser789]

I mean tbh I didnt want Infinite to burn bridges entirely with Eggman. What made up arbitary team will he be in next racing game???

Teams aren't a thing anymore in those. He can just be DLC by himself

 

[TMaakkonen]

Teams aren't a thing anymore in those. He can just be DLC by himself

I meant in future game not CW, that boat is sailed. No piss yellow AI Infinite for us.

 

[Snek]

Infinitechads won so hard.

It's a shame that his stocks were probably taken directly from Sage

Day one the decision confused me, day two it annoyed me but now on day three I'm in the "oh no it's funny" phase.
Sage has to be the single weakest member of the cast now and would probably get dunked on in a fight with even Cream or Charmy unironically.
Her being called Eggman's greatest creation is just favoritism now because the average Buzz Bomber is more capable of putting up a fight than her.
Sage has been the Eggman Empires princess for all of only two games and it only took three issues to get the damsel in distress treatment in IDW. Talk about overacheiving
She's Eggman's least weaponized child. Apparently the one thing nepotism can't get you is the ability to fire a laser from your hand from the man who even weaponizes harmless woodland critters but doesn't bother giving his favorite child the means to attack anything on her own.

---

Edit: More Sage slander to cope.
You know that feeling when your lobotomized robot brother (Metal Sonic) suddenly frightens you more than the literal manifestation of death and entropy did. Sage sure does.
When you're a hyper intelligent AI but your suddenly in the same room as the authors OC "my time has come to have the IQ of a toaster".

Side note: Behind the screen I'm not even being sarcastic or salty, I have genuinely hit the it's funny phase of Sage being nerfed into the dirt because yeah it is kind of hilarious.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I mean tbh I didnt want Infinite to burn bridges entirely with Eggman.

Me neither, I actually think he would've been a good recurring antagonist for the Eggman Empire.

Still, I guess they desire more "free agents" out in the world that can pop in and out of any story as he pleases. Kinda like Surge and Kit, just less domesticated.

What made up arbitary team will he be in next racing game???

Team Potential

 

[Theuser789]

It's a shame that his stocks were probably taken directly from Sage

Day one the decision confused me, day two it annoyed me but now on day three I'm in the "oh no it's funny" phase.
Sage has to be the single weakest member of the cast now and would probably get dunked on in a fight with even Cream or Charmy unironically.
Her being called Eggman's greatest creation is just favoritism now because the average Buzz Bomber is more capable of putting up a fight than her.
Sage has been the Eggman Empires princess for all of only two games and it only took three issues to get the damsel in distress treatment in IDW. Talk about overacheiving
She's Eggman's least weaponized child. Apparently the one thing nepotism can't get you is the ability to fire a laser from your hand from the man who even weaponizes harmless woodland critters but doesn't bother giving his favorite child the means to attack anything on her own.

Side note: Behind the screen I'm not even being sarcastic or salty, I have genuinely hit the it's funny phase of Sage being nerfed into the dirt because yeah it is kind of hilarious.

I will wait for the next game since IDW notoriously nerfs everyone. Maybe even the next Ian issue she wouldn't be as weak.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Sometimes I do wish IDW stayed separate because having a Tier 7, Class M cast running around would have been neat

I hope this new villain keeps the IDW Comics interesting for a while.

 

[StarShooter80]

Sometimes I do wish IDW stayed separate because having a Tier 7, Class M cast running around would have been neat

Wouldn't that still be an issue since everything from the games up till forces would still apply? like ig the main continuity wouldn't have that burden anymore but it'd still be an issue for the comics no?

 

[TMaakkonen]

IDW making Shadow job everywhere only for him to beat up Metal Overlord in game is prolly funniest juxtaposition so far.

 

[Executor_N0]

Wouldn't that still be an issue since everything from the games up till forces would still apply? like ig the main continuity wouldn't have that burden anymore but it'd still be an issue for the comics no?

The general storyline would be kept, but it wasn't the case of "The games are canon to the comic up to this point" like Archie. The early IDW was very directly said to be "inspired, but not following the same timeline of the games".

So we could only suppose that higher feats weren't needed or something else happened to keep IDW consistent with itself.

Personally, I think they could have kept the same with "Not the same, but the broad strokes cross over between them", but I guess people would ask too much about specifica of what counts or not, like they did spamming Ian with "does X IDW thing come from the games' lore?" questions.

Still, even now continuity isn't perfect and only some broad elements really fit together, so in practice, nothing really changed.

 

[Snek]

IDW making Shadow job everywhere only for him to beat up Metal Overlord in game is prolly funniest juxtaposition so far.

But was Shadow buffed or was Metal Overlord nerfed...
Just kidding.

I will wait for the next game since IDW notoriously nerfs everyone. Maybe even the next Ian issue she wouldn't be as weak.

Hopefully. I really would prefer Sage isn't permanently relegated to the Eggman Empire's "potential girl" as the JJK brain rot memes would put it. But we'll have to wait and see.

 

[StarShooter80]

The general storyline would be kept, but it wasn't the case of "The games are canon to the comic up to this point" like Archie. The early IDW was very directly said to be "inspired, but not following the same timeline of the games".

Oh then that sounds better yeah

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

Granted, it's a mobile game, but the point still stands:

 

[TMaakkonen]

I was ok with Toriyama putting Broly to DBS, but I dont want SatAm or Archie characters to get in to games.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

If the hearsay I've seen saying they'd only be allowed to use 4 SatAm characters is correct (Sally, Bunnie, Antoine, and Rotor) then might as well leave them in limbo. The Freedom Fighters without Nicole is

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

If the hearsay I've seen saying they'd only be allowed to use 4 SatAm characters is correct (Sally, Bunnie, Antoine, and Rotor) then might as well leave them in limbo. The Freedom Fighters without Nicole is

What is Antoine or Muttski? I assume this is about the Spinball cameos.

 

[LukeChaosBlobz]

I’d like to see the Metarex back

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

If the hearsay I've seen saying they'd only be allowed to use 4 SatAm characters is correct (Sally, Bunnie, Antoine, and Rotor) then might as well leave them in limbo. The Freedom Fighters without Nicole is

From what I've heard recently, it's not an issue of legal rights. They can use that stuff if they want to. But the Sonic Team aren't interested

 

[OldestDream2]

archie media being added to mainline games is something that I: 1. don't want to happen 2. never gonna happen

 

[OldestDream2]

also, shadow was literally buffed when fighting metal overlord in gens lol

 

[TheStinkeer]

also, shadow was literally buffed when fighting metal overlord in gens lol

It's especially funny because he then goes on to fight Mephiles when even further buffed.

 

[OldestDream2]

I feel like people are taking sage's IDW moments out of context.
1. due to how much time has passed in IDW since frontiers, it's possible that the base cast has already powercrept those versions of themselves, with metal being established to grow at a similar rate to sonic. as we know, sonic's AD is broken, and like it or not, it's greater than literally everyone else who isn't a hedgehog. there had grown to be so big of a gap that sage couldn't really engage in a fight with metal and escape. which is why her only option was to run

 

[ShakeResounding]

Not everybody believes in the characters growing constantly or at all though, even a writer on the team

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

also, shadow was literally buffed when fighting metal overlord in gens lol

Tbh, I don't subscribe to the buff being THAT insane. Like to the point of making him 1-C from getting a buff from Doom Surf.

 

[TheStinkeer]

Tbh, I don't subscribe to the buff being THAT insane. Like to the point of making him 1-C from getting a buff from Doom Surf.

I mean by the time Shadow reached Metal Overlord, he'd already gotten to the Forces era.

Also remembering that, I also thought of Metal Overlord in the boss gate unlike Classic Metal Sonic. But at the same time I don't think Metal Overlord being located in a boss gate would contradict any erasure resistance, especially since Eggman himself was in a boss gate and we know for a fact he wasn't erased, so there should be exceptions

Forgot about Black Doom, he probably could've done that and put Metal Overlord there