StarShooter80
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That sounds good yeah
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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
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Maybe. Still really lame (lame because Sonic and crew needing to deal with Sage post Frontiers could have been interesting with what she brought to the table, that is if she was only nerfed slightly) and weird (how can Eggman recreate her body but not abilities that are directly tied to her body) but that is a viable explanation.
Eh whatever I'll live with it. Still it's really a bummer to see Sage seemingly relegated to "cute and mostly harmless" hell now that her hacking is terrible, most of her abilities are gone and she seemingly isn't much of a better strategist than Eggman anyways if this issue is anything to go by meaning she hardly has any niche as a villain (as far as being a challange to the heroes is concerned) beyond just running Eggman's robots now. Man her character is great too but I have no idea how she's going to remotely pose any problems to Sonic and crew that Eggman couldn't already pose without her.
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I always interpreted as them being inside the Black Hole and it is just that large
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I think lore wise it makes sense, Eggman admitted his inferiority to the ancients’ technological abilities throughout Frontiers so his facsimile of their upgrades to Sage being much worse, makes sense.
TheStinkeer
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That's also possible, though I'd want to see the JP version of the text that says "what lies within the heart of a black hole." I got SO close to finding it one time but whoever was writing the descriptions just didn't do so for Mobius Strip
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So, I finally got around to reading all the Sonic IDW comics, and here's what I found:
1. I liked it quite a bit, and I really liked the new characters. I didn't expect to like Belle so much, for example.
2. I'm not going to do a CTR yet because of the Imgur scans issue and the other pending CTRs, but I have some minor additions for various IDW characters saved here, taken from the extra mini-series.
1. I liked it quite a bit, and I really liked the new characters. I didn't expect to like Belle so much, for example.
2. I'm not going to do a CTR yet because of the Imgur scans issue and the other pending CTRs, but I have some minor additions for various IDW characters saved here, taken from the extra mini-series.
MysticMania
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Yeah, the galaxies and stars appear to be inside. Even when the player sits still those celestial bodies still spin and swirl around due to the black hole.
MysticMania
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I'm happy it is enjoyable! That blog/page seems to be hidden on my end, also.
TheStinkeer
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Yeah I think the only counter to that would be that they're only spinning from the player's perspective, but I don't find that too likely especially since there are some things that spin slower than others
MysticMania
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To that idea, I do think there's evidence against the player being the thing spinning. ABIS occasionally lifts the cast into the air during the fight, and the stage doesn't spin to flyswat them. The Earth ( unlike the celestial bodies ) only moves relative to the player's sight too. I'm sorry for not getting a screenshot of that, also. I worry about posting a random screenshot to social media and someone thinking I'm weird even if I delete it.
TheStinkeer
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I actually had that explanation in mind as I was typing, I just thought it'd be being a bit too realistic so I didn't bring it up. I know powerscaling typically is about making realistic sense of feats but yk
And dw about it!! I don't wanna force you too if you don't want too
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I think a new key for Sage should be made when she actually shows up in a new game.
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Probably, a comic doesn't really offer the best showing of what abilities she has or doesn't have.
On the plus side, this justifies many worlds theory a bit more because FH is likely a split timeline.
On the plus side, this justifies many worlds theory a bit more because FH is likely a split timeline.
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No?... why would it be?
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She wasn't deatroyed in FH so that doesn't work
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It seems kind of obvious to me that the original ending is the canon one to IDW seeing as this new Sage is a hard light body instead of a cyber construct. So Final Horizon is just an alternate world.
ShakeResounding
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Final Horizon is absolutely a split timeline.
For now, we should just keep in mind the feats she displays and note to add them in the future.
- Sonic going through that Warp Ring is a metaphor for being in a timeline with different events, following the trend of Warp Rings leading to other universes/pocket universes all the way back in Sonic 1.
- I say it's a metaphorical representation of a different universe because I don't think Sonic is going through a literal Warp Ring and abandoning his "original" friends like a heartless jackass. That is really not in-character... like, at all. He rejected his duties as King Arthur to go back home.
- Within Final Horizon, Sage notes there were variables so unlikely (regarding Sonic's friends) that she "didn't account for them".
- It is literally labelled "Another Story" within the game.
For now, we should just keep in mind the feats she displays and note to add them in the future.
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Tbf that is explicitly because Eggman betrayed him first.
As for everything else, yeah we should wait until the next mainline game before coming up with new keys.
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Non sequitur... one means nothing to the other
Eggman or herself might have wanted a more "solid" body too
No? There's no evidence for that
Or it could be a metaphor of another path that tool place... we don't know
Yes... so?
... so? All characters in Adventure have their own "stories"... are they ALL different timelines?
... proof of that? Legit... proof? Better not be "she didn't use it, so she doesn't have it"
no he doesn't tf?
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This one is just silly, we know the Adventure stories are concurrent within the same timeline, Final Horizon cannot coexist with the original ending.
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Sage could already be solid whenever she wanted to in Frontiers she just happened to phase through things whenever she felt like it (twice on screen if I remember correctly). Although it would be absurd of Eggman to get rid of defensive options that his own daughter has. Especially when he sends her on dangerous missions and in issue #86
- Sonic IDW issue #86 synopsis
With Sage captured by a corrupted Metal Sonic, the favorite daughter of doctor Eggman is about to be deleted. The only way to survive? Combine forces with her sister "Belle". As the two overcome their pain and fight to survive, they find themselves caught with Sonic under the whim of a mysterious ghostly figure.
So yeah Sage apparently almost gets murdered for her lack of useful abilities which shows exactly why there's no way Eggman would willingly remove said useful abilities and for that matter it's strange (and stupid) that he was originally planning to send her after Metal Sonic with only Belle as backup if she did lose her ability to phase through things or teleport away from danger. (also apparently she's about as easy to delete as an app on my phone if the mystery villain can just do that, I expected her consciousness would at least be backed up on the EggNet but whatever). Anyways contrived stakes really are the biggest narrative sins of IDW.
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To wrap this up I will just say that I don't like Sage loosing her abilities after Frontiers because it significantly reduces her potential to be an obstacle to Sonic and crew in future stories. However if she did definitively lose her powers then I like it even less of Eggman to send her into danger with no backup (Sonic coming wasn't his intention initially and Eggman didn't even bother to give Sage a Shadow Android or something as a bodyguard) even though she's borderline defenseless solely so the story can have "stakes".
I digress. Because I do like IDW overall and have said my piece on this particular topic.
I digress. Because I do like IDW overall and have said my piece on this particular topic.
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I think Sage being nerfed is fine. Honestly, having a Super-level tactical nuke on-command just ruins the story/any stakes that would be had by the very implication of her existence. She's still powerful enough on her own. She could just be relative to the base cast with potential to be greater with some of her strongest weaponry.
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ShakeResounding
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@Omegabronic If you can't engage in a discussion with good faith instead of strawmanning, then we won't have one.
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... I didn't strawmaned tho?... at least i don't THINK i did
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Explain all differences between them within the same situations tho?
Which doesn't make either "more canon" than the other
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True but Sage having an outright different body at least makes the original ending more natural to lead into that, with Eggman making a new form for Sage at the end of that.
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Only if by your definition you need stories that fit 100% with a single story timeline structure, which isn't the case. From all we know, what matters is "SAGE was in Starfall Islands, she helped Sonic defeat The End, after the story SAGE was able to stay with Eggman and the two are together", which happens in both stories.
If we get in the specific details, nothing will be able to be in the same timeline because the contradictions. There are literal hard contradictions with IDW between canon to it even on the most basic levels, and all that the staff could say is "it happens, there's no way out of it due to how the process was done".
As much as it could be nice have a perfect causal timeline, this isn't the case here. There's an approximation of timeline with key events happening in certain works, but that is all.
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IDW nerfs the entire Sonic cast. I wouldn't be surprised if Sage is as strong as her Frontiers self in an actual game.
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Or even in later IDW comics because surely they won't have Sage be as easy to deal with as a misbehaving child forever when she's a villain
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Well that's all that I will say for dunking on IDW and to give it it's flowers I have a question.
Sonic question time: What is your favorite aspect of the Sonic IDW comics or one of your favorite aspects.
For me my first favorite thing is the new characters as I really like almost every single one of them down to even the side characters like Night the Rooster and Dawn the Owl. As for the second closest thing I really like the action in IDW whenever they lock in. Fights like Sonic vs Neo Metal Sonic, Super Neo Metal Sonic dunking on Sonic and Knuckles, Sonic vs Surge, Eggman vs Starline and so on are really enjoyable to read.
Sonic question time: What is your favorite aspect of the Sonic IDW comics or one of your favorite aspects.
For me my first favorite thing is the new characters as I really like almost every single one of them down to even the side characters like Night the Rooster and Dawn the Owl. As for the second closest thing I really like the action in IDW whenever they lock in. Fights like Sonic vs Neo Metal Sonic, Super Neo Metal Sonic dunking on Sonic and Knuckles, Sonic vs Surge, Eggman vs Starline and so on are really enjoyable to read.
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Also they forgot Sage can fire energy blasts and phase through things for some reason.
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Sage’s character description at the beginning of the issue supports your theory tbh
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She doesn't, what are you talking about?
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They probably didn't forget
but they just wanted "stakes" and were willing to in one go make Eggman look uncaring for Sage's safety (if she was permanently nerfed he should know better that she'd be unable to teleport out of danger or phase through attacks or fight back in any meaningful capacity if Metal Sonic really did go rogue), make Sage look incapable and also drastically reduce Sage's potential as an obstacle in later stories to achieve stakes in the short term to the likely detriment of believable stakes later. I'd have nerfed Sage too by adding limits to her abilities instead of removing them entirely but downgrading Sage so extremely that she's basically a Siri with attitude now who almost dies three issues into being in the comics is, dare I say, a short-sighted writing decision that I bet they will walk back on fast as soon as she's in opposition to Sonic because the "stakes" will eventually demand it.
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My conspiracy theory is that Evan nerfed Sage was that Belle would look good like she did in the issue itself.They probably didn't forget
That and after Sage almost getting deleted after being kidnapped it would be strange of Eggman to not weaponize her extensively if she did lose abilities in the aftermath of an incident like that.
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Nah IDW Team in general just nerfs characters. Has Metal Sonic even fired a beam/electric attack in IDW?
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He used Ring Spark Field and the Maximum Overdrive sometimes.
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Oh no that makes way too much sense
Ian also nerfs characters but he usually does so to a reasonable or excusable extent rather than "they lose almost every power they have, even ones they have shown on screen before getting casually abducted" levels of nerfing. God I really don't want that to be true but you might just be right. Not that I will assume that to be true as I will give Evan the benefit of the doubt on principle but still I don't like how much sense that makes at all.
He's used the V Maximum overdrive attack and has also used the Black Shield a bunch of times.
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I know we all have issues with how exactly it gets implemented, but I appreciate that IDW at least tries to fit in with the game continuity. I'll admit, I might be a bit more lenient on that than most since it feels like one of those things that can never be perfect no matter how many times they go over it, but you can tell they're doing the best with what they have even if it results in questionable decisions (i.e. the recent Sage stuff in these issues). Heck, part of the reason why I prefer reboot Archie over the original Archie was BECAUSE they tried tying the games into it more while still applying Archie-original content in a way that felt surprisingly natural. Again, though, I'm probably in the minority on that one...
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