Better Call Solitude (Mario and Luigi Brothership 2nd CRT (3-A, 2-C, or 2-B))

[AyOgUyS]

Invulnerability is kind of a niche and confusing ability on this wiki, especially since fiction loves to use it and its synonyms (like invincible) in a completely different way all the time.

Atp true "Invulnerability" on this wiki seems more like "Damage Nullification" to me

 

[FinePoint]

Atp true "Invulnerability" on this wiki seems more like "Damage Nullification" to me

That's literally what I argued and basically what I wanted to change the name to.

 

[Galactidot]

That's literally what I argued and basically what I wanted to change the name to.

NGL that should be a thing

 

[AyOgUyS]

That's literally what I argued and basically what I wanted to change the name to.

maybe we can try again later

 

[FinePoint]

Glohm also ties all of his abilities together, and should qualify for a UES.

I'm pretty sure our standards don't allow just assuming they can do the same abilities because of the same UES unless there's direct evidence of it.

It's more for scaling abilities to each other and to physicals.

I could be wrong though.

 

[AyOgUyS]

NGL that should be a thing

basically just the defensive version of dura neg, I think the current Invulnerability page needs a huge rework (also why do super forms still have Invulnerability bruh)

 

[FinePoint]

maybe we can try again later

The ol' squeaky wheel method can be effective sometimes.

I have a lot of other stuff to get through, though, and I kind of have fun mansplaining our confusing definition of 'invulnerability'.

 

[Galactidot]

I'm pretty sure our standards don't allow just assuming they can do the same abilities because of the same UES unless there's direct evidence of it.

It's more for scaling abilities to each other and to physicals.

I could be wrong though.

A special case here.
This is relevant for Reclusa since he encompasses this ENTIRE UES on his own. He is the progenitor of Glohm, and every bit of it that spreads makes him stronger as a bonus.

Remember? When he dies, Glohm is erased in turn!

 

[AyOgUyS]

A special case here.
This is relevant for Reclusa since he encompasses this ENTIRE UES on his own. He is the progenitor of Glohm, and every bit of it that spreads makes him stronger as a bonus.

Remember? When he dies, Glohm is erased in turn!

in that case him having all the abilities makes sense to me

 

[Armorchompy]

This backed up with this statement where Reclusa mentions his capability to literally kill everybody manually, without any hax, is enough on it's own to warrant at least a High 3-A upgrade.

He's saying he'll "take on everyone in the world". There is fifteen reasons this isn't a tier 3 or higher statement, without even considering that it's taken out of context.

From a Japanese Wiki [...] Like VR goggles, it projected a solitary “dream” world created by Bocciani himself based on the ideals of the captor.

Not an acceptable source. But it also supports my interpretation of the dream creations, which is they work "like VR goggles", creating an illusion in the victim's mind rather than creating the universe directly.

"He's putting people to sleep and it's their sleep that makes the dreams, he just shapes it by messing with their heads."

Under the regionally consistent statement that Reclusa is both creating and preparing the dreams, this wouldn't be possible by the definition of preparation.

Not correct. Reclusa has the full ability to modify the dream worlds, but this is still done by altering the people's minds rather than through tier 2 reality warping. To assume this is an implication of the latter when we're clearly shown the former is arbitrary.

This being metaphorical would give no explanation from Shun, a scientist attempting to warn Mario and Luigi of Reclusa's powers, any bearing or reasoning for being included in the story.

Being abstract has absolutely no relevant on tiering, and arguments provided as to why this means he should scale to Glohm are laughably insufficient, not that it's real evidence for AE anyways. To be the origin of Glohm does not mean RW feats that can be performed with it scale to his normal attacks when they otherwise wouldn't, it doesn't serve you in proving that.

It also doesn't do anything tier 2 to begin with, of course.

This is true, but it should be noted that atoms, cells, stars, and planets are all alive and capable of dreaming.

Ah, a... six-years old blog from a different wiki. Good evidence. Even if all atoms were sentient (which they aren't - matter being capable of sentience doesn't mean even the smallest part of matter always has sentience) and even if all these things were canonically confirmed of the ability to sleep and dream (which they aren't), nothing says Reclusa is aware of this fact, or even capable of doing much about it. He is only shown to target "real" living beings. Humanoids, people, et cetera. We never see him try to attack or hax objects or any other kind of matter. To say that he is willing and capable of destroying the universe is two massive reaches at once.

Regardless, him killing everyone and leaving the world in ruin is still scalable.

No it isn't, because it's done by hax. We know how he goes about things, he puts everyone in dream worlds until they wither and die. This is explicitly stated. It's not up for debate.

Reclusa has replicated success as long as time, and there are some living entities which quite clearly are too large or otherwise could not be affected by Dream Flowers.

And we have no clue what he does about them, provided he even does anything. Assuming universal destruction is the answer is crazy.

Weeping Core and Weeping Reclusa consistently do this with their melee attacks. This isn't a matter of intent. However, this one is up to your judgement, and isn't as clear cut as the others, as it could partially rely on writers doing their own things.

Blatant exploitation of different games' intent. Dreamy Bowser is infinities above Mario & Luigi, he should be pasting them with a flick.

 

[FinePoint]

A special case here.
This is relevant for Reclusa since he encompasses this ENTIRE UES on his own. He is the progenitor of Glohm, and every bit of it that spreads makes him stronger as a bonus.

Remember? When he dies, Glohm is erased in turn!

Okay, it's probably fine then, but of course I'd like to hear what the other staff think too.

(also why do super forms still have Invulnerability bruh)

A lot of abilities have users listed which don't actually qualify, it's not a heavily moderated part of the pages it seems.

If you have replacements in mind, and a quick explanation of why the current ones are wrong, feel free to send me the details and I can give you permission to make a staff thread about it.

 

[Armorchompy]

... And yeah Invulnerability needs a revision. I tried to overhaul the page but the discussion stalled pretty hard.

 

[FinePoint]

... And yeah Invulnerability needs a revision. I tried to overhaul the page but the discussion stalled pretty hard.

Ant is very opinionated, but also very reasonable.

If we actually collected instances like this of people being confused by it, I'm sure it would help sway him.

We probably shouldn't digress too hard in this thread, though, for fear of derailing. Feel free to message me about it if you have specific ideas.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Glohm also ties all of his abilities together, and should qualify for a UES.

While that is supporting details, those alone don't prove it be default. I have been telling you and others from the beginning that the main thing that would justify the UES stuff is being the inverse of Power of Bonds/Love/Brothership/Friendship. But in order to do that, I highly recommend working on an expansive blog post explaining why all of that is a Universal Energy System. That's what verses like Saint Seiya and Fairy Tail use to verify there reasons. You can see some of those researched blogs or better yet contact some of the main experts for elaborations. But bottom line is, try organizing and constructing the details in an orderly fashion as trying to tackle things out of order was a common occurring issue for a lot of Mario upgrade threads.

 

[Armorchompy]

Okay, it's probably fine then, but of course I'd like to hear what the other staff think too.

In no way does being the origin of something (and this is in no way real AE, for the record) scale you physically to its RW. It's a complete apples to oranges thing, there's frankly no relation. Even if it did mean Reclusa is inherently capable of everything Glohm can ever do at a whim, which is provably not true given he needs to merge with the Soli-Tree to achieve his plans, it would still at best upscale his RW from anything else that RW can achieve.

 

[AyOgUyS]

A lot of abilities have users listed which don't actually qualify, it's not a heavily moderated part of the pages it seems.

If you have replacements in mind, and a quick explanation of why the current ones are wrong, feel free to send me the details and I can give you permission to make a staff thread about it.

It'll take me a bit. I'll PM you when I have more time

 

[FinePoint]

While that is supporting details, those alone don't prove it be default. I have been telling you and others from the beginning that the main thing that would justify the UES stuff is being the inverse of Power of Bonds/Love/Brothership/Friendship. But in order to do that, I highly recommend working on an expansive blog post explaining why all of that is a Universal Energy System. That's what verses like Saint Seiya and Fairy Tail use to verify there reasons. You can see some of those researched blogs or better yet contact some of the main experts for elaborations. But bottom line is, try organizing and constructing the details in an orderly fashion as trying to tackle things out of order was a common occurring issue for a lot of Mario upgrade threads.

In no way does being the origin of something (and this is in no way real AE, for the record) scale you physically to its RW. It's a complete apples to oranges thing, there's frankly no relation. Even if it did mean Reclusa is inherently capable of everything Glohm can ever do at a whim, which is provably not true given he needs to merge with the Soli-Tree to achieve his plans, it would still at best upscale his RW from anything else that RW can achieve.

Alright, I rescind my approval on that then. As I said, I'm not actually that knowledgeable on the verse, so it's hard for me to say if a UES makes sense (given that's something which generally requires a lot of context to set up.)

If a UES is not actually established yet (and clearly controversial), then it would be wise to make a blog/thread about that first, yes.

 

[Galactidot]

He's saying he'll "take on everyone in the world". There is fifteen reasons this isn't a tier 3 or higher statement, without even considering that it's taken out of context.

Give the fifteen reasons, please.

Not an acceptable source. But it also supports my interpretation of the dream creations, which is they work "like VR goggles", creating an illusion in the victim's mind rather than creating the universe directly.

That's not how VR goggles work whatsoever. A virtual reality world is pre programmed and shown to the user via the goggles.
This makes no sense.
What are you trying to say here?

Not correct. Reclusa has the full ability to modify the dream worlds, but this is still done by altering the people's minds rather than through tier 2 reality warping. To assume this is an implication of the latter when we're clearly shown the former is arbitrary.

We are not clearly shown the former. I have given you scans and explanations as to why it's impossible, like the preparation contradiction.

Can you please give a scan for this "clearly shown the former" thing, burden of proof and all?

Being abstract has absolutely no relevant on tiering, and arguments provided as to why this means he should scale to Glohm are laughably insufficient, not that it's real evidence for AE anyways. To be the origin of Glohm does not mean RW feats that can be performed with it scale to his normal attacks when they otherwise wouldn't, it doesn't serve you in proving that.

Attacks from a living UES don't have to all have the same AP. This is what I'm trying to say. He claims to be able to do it IRL by fighting everyone at once, and he does it with the dream worlds.

Holding back is a thing, and we have much evidence to show he does that regularly for fun.

Ah, a... six-years old blog from a different wiki. Good evidence. Even if all atoms were sentient (which they aren't - matter being capable of sentience doesn't mean even the smallest part of matter always has sentience) and even if all these things were canonically confirmed of the ability to sleep and dream (which they aren't), nothing says Reclusa is aware of this fact, or even capable of doing much about it. He is only shown to target "real" living beings. Humanoids, people, et cetera. We never see him try to attack or hax objects or any other kind of matter. To say that he is willing and capable of destroying the universe is two massive reaches at once.

His whole shtick is destroying until there is "nothing left". I never said all of these things are capable of dreaming either.
In fact you yourself just admitted there are entities he can't kill with hax alone, as I've been saying all this time.

No it isn't, because it's done by hax. We know how he goes about things, he puts everyone in dream worlds until they wither and die. This is explicitly stated. It's not up for debate.

I just showed you how he points out he doesn't have to do it in the Japanese version, and has done so before.

And we have no clue what he does about them, provided he even does anything. Assuming universal destruction is the answer is crazy.

Well, why would he leave worlds "unfinished"? Universal destruction doesn't need to be the answer either. He could also just kill everyone IN the universe, as we've pointed out.

Blatant exploitation of different games' intent. Dreamy Bowser is infinities above Mario & Luigi, he should be pasting them with a flick.

If this was any other franchise, we'd just scale them to Dreamy Bowser and call it a day.

Also, this doesn't matter for Reclusa, as by your logic, he, too, is infinities above Mario and Luigi.

 

[Galactidot]

Even if it did mean Reclusa is inherently capable of everything Glohm can ever do at a whim, which is provably not true given he needs to merge with the Soli-Tree to achieve his plans.

Who created the Soli-tree with a literal thought?

It's just his giant toy he uses to make his flowers grow. It is him. It's not a separate entity.

When Reclusa dies, it dies.

 

[Poketmonsrs]

He DOES debatably have this as the Soli-tree in a similar vein to Super Dimentio. Reclusa claims to be invincible upon entering the form in the Japanese version, and is only capable of being injured when the Bros are amped by Bonds, similar to how Pure Hearts broke Super Dimentio's invincibility.

I mean… Super Dimentio doesn’t have Invulnerability

 

[Galactidot]

I mean… Super Dimentio doesn’t have Invulnerability

 

[Poketmonsrs]

Ik what he said but the arguments are that having high dura ≠ invul, and that statements aren’t enough

 

[Osemere]

I think it’s kind of silly to harp on the “they’re illusion mental states generated by Reclusa in the minds of characters” even though the entire M&L series (and greater Mario lore) specifically takes a metaphysical interpretation of imaginal/Dream realms pretty consistently. IIRC there’s even a piece of dialogue in Dream Team talking about a “higher plane of consciousness” existing within each character (and the original Mario RPG talks about the “waves of consciousness” emanating from Mario’s dimension to Culex’s); Reclusa hijacking the collective dream-consciousness of “worlds”, breaking them apart through Glohm to abolish bond-power and kill everyone, seems to be the thing he’s doing.

Him upscaling Dreamy Bowser anyway (powered by the collective dream-power of an entire island in Bowser’s case vs. an entire kingdom at minimum, world/other dimension medium/maximally) is consistent with him also requiring an entire system of “bond-power” to defeat him even if I’m aware that the entire Dreamy fight is regarded as an outlier here. And as noted, him ‘sustaining’ the worlds such that they stopped existing when he was defeated, and existing as the source of Glohm (which corrupts/destroys them) might be enough to be considered AP per his source as a UES as others noted.

 

[Galactidot]

While that is supporting details, those alone don't prove it be default. I have been telling you and others from the beginning that the main thing that would justify the UES stuff is being the inverse of Power of Bonds/Love/Brothership/Friendship. But in order to do that, I highly recommend working on an expansive blog post explaining why all of that is a Universal Energy System. That's what verses like Saint Seiya and Fairy Tail use to verify there reasons. You can see some of those researched blogs or better yet contact some of the main experts for elaborations. But bottom line is, try organizing and constructing the details in an orderly fashion as trying to tackle things out of order was a common occurring issue for a lot of Mario upgrade threads.

Can you please link said blog posts for Saint Seiya and Fairy Tail for reference of mine?
While this is arguably enough on its own, I would like to make a blog post for future reference, if possible.

 

[Galactidot]

Can you please link said blog posts for Saint Seiya and Fairy Tail for reference of mine?
While this is arguably enough on its own, I would like to make a blog post for future reference, if possible.

Dude all of this

だれ
すべて 誰かとの「つながり」が
そんざい
あればこそ存在するものなのだ。

Everything exists precisely because of one's 'connections' with someone

そして…
いまキズナは世界をもこえて…

And…
Now, Bonds transcend even the world…

すべては
キズナから生まれるエネルギー…

For all things
are born from the energy of Bonds…


Put together just straight up means we've been lowballing Brothership this whole time I shit you not

Bonds create EVERYTHING, and spread
beyond each universe, creating an infinite cycle of creation, lining up with Dr Vulko calling it "infinite energy".

And acting as a direct inverse to Glohm, which causes an endless cycle of destruction.

It creates everything and spreads by ascending beyond every universe it's present in, it's definitive evidence AND MORE.

Not to mention that the Uni-Tree is partially based off of Yggdrasil, with Reclusa being partially inspired by Nidhogg, a snake trying to destroy the world tree, the source of all life.
As such, the intent is clearly there for Bonds being a UES that binds and CREATES the 2-A multiverse.

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Dude all of this

だれ
すべて 誰かとの「つながり」が
そんざい
あればこそ存在するものなのだ。

Everything exists precisely because of one's 'connections' with someone

そして…
いまキズナは世界をもこえて…

And…
Now, Bonds transcend even the world…

すべては
キズナから生まれるエネルギー…

For all things
are born from the energy of Bonds…


Put together just straight up means we've been lowballing Brothership this whole time I shit you not

Bonds create EVERYTHING, and spread BEYOND EACH UNIVERSE, CREATING AN INFINITE CYCLE OF CREATION, LINING UP WITH DR VULKO'S CALLING IT "INFINITE ENERGY"

AND ACTING AS A DIRECT INVERSE TO GLOHM, WHICH CAUSES AN ENDLESS CYCLE OF DESTRUCTION

It creates everything and spreads by ascending beyond every universe it's present in, I think it's definitive evidence AND MORE.

Not to mention that the Uni-Tree is partially based off of Yggdrasil, with Reclusa being partially inspired by Nidhogg, a snake trying to destroy the world tree, the source of all life.
As such, the intent is clearly there for Bonds being a UES that binds and CREATES the 2-A multiverse.

This is effectively undeniable.

 

[Osemere]

Dude all of this

だれ
すべて 誰かとの「つながり」が
そんざい
あればこそ存在するものなのだ。

Everything exists precisely because of one's 'connections' with someone

そして…
いまキズナは世界をもこえて…

And…
Now, Bonds transcend even the world…

すべては
キズナから生まれるエネルギー…

For all things
are born from the energy of Bonds…


Put together just straight up means we've been lowballing Brothership this whole time I shit you not

Bonds create EVERYTHING, and spread
beyond each universe, creating an infinite cycle of creation, lining up with Dr Vulko calling it "infinite energy".

And acting as a direct inverse to Glohm, which causes an endless cycle of destruction.

It creates everything and spreads by ascending beyond every universe it's present in, it's definitive evidence AND MORE.

Not to mention that the Uni-Tree is partially based off of Yggdrasil, with Reclusa being partially inspired by Nidhogg, a snake trying to destroy the world tree, the source of all life.
As such, the intent is clearly there for Bonds being a UES that binds and CREATES the 2-A multiverse.

Just remake the CRT at this point with this evidence (and more) in a user blog, would be my advice (also would want to find specific scans for universe cycles and infinite statements)

 

[Armorchompy]

Just remake the CRT at this point with this evidence (and more) in a user blog, would be my advice (also would want to find specific scans for universe cycles and infinite statements)

Absolutely ******* not. Galactidot has had literally five months to try and make a halfway decent point to fabricate some tier 2 rating from this game, without even counting the other thread in which case it's almost eight. Another CRT at this point after this many attempts at rehashing this one is a blatant attempt at trying to force a win by exhaustion over already debated topics. I will lock any other Reclusa threads on sight. In fact given the age of this one I will probably be closing it soon enough too.

 

[Osemere]

Absolutely ******* not. Galactidot has had literally five months to try and make a halfway decent point to fabricate some tier 2 rating from this game, without even counting the other thread in which case it's almost eight. Another CRT at this point after this many attempts at rehashing this one is a blatant attempt at trying to force a win by exhaustion over already debated topics. I will lock any other Reclusa threads on sight. In fact given the age of this one I will probably be closing it soon enough too.

Well, it doesn’t need to just be them; usually when these types of things succeed, it’s because the supporters pool together or whatever. Someone else can post it.

 

[Armorchompy]

It doesn't really matter who does, you can't just rehash the same arguments over and over until you get lucky enough for a thread to pass. I understand the frustration from other people that Galactidot may not have argued this optimally, but still.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It doesn't really matter who does, you can't just rehash the same arguments over and over until you get lucky enough for a thread to pass. I understand the frustration from other people that Galactidot may not have argued this optimally, but still.

He isn't rehashing the same arguments, he actually found new translations; whether the translations themselves are accurate is a different story. And it's finally a piece of what I've been telling him to do from the beginning; actually show evidence of "Power of Bonds" being a UES. Which most definitely are starting to show signs between Power of Bonds and Power of Stars are liking creation feats as interchangeable with physical energy. And it was already demonstrated from Great Conductor's speech about unity and Power of Bonds are what fuel to make anyone or anything stronger.

Absolutely ******* not. Galactidot has had literally five months to try and make a halfway decent point to fabricate some tier 2 rating from this game, without even counting the other thread in which case it's almost eight. Another CRT at this point after this many attempts at rehashing this one is a blatant attempt at trying to force a win by exhaustion over already debated topics. I will lock any other Reclusa threads on sight. In fact given the age of this one I will probably be closing it soon enough too.

New users grow all the time. Lots of people, staff included, started out as relatively amateur debaters before they grew and became a lot more professional. You cannot just be a total control freak who just locks every thread that doesn't suit your liking. That is exactly the same that got people like Matthew Schroeder, WeeklyBattles, and Eficiente demoted; the same thing could very well happen to you if you keep up this type of behavior. Having controversial viewpoints or personal agenda is one thing, but using those as a means to go off the deep end is unprofessional.

But anyway, this thread has already been exhausted and I would prefer to save the new stuff for a new and much more organized OP. There is a group collecting scans, which I may invite a few users (Some of whom are former staff and others who are staff). There are plans to make blog posts explaining in much better detail why Bonds are a Universal Energy System. CloverDragon and DemonGodMitch could be interested in helping out given their experience with Fairy Tail scaling an explanations. Though I do recommend to avoid making tier specific upgrade threads based on certain characters and instead focus on the more general lore stuff; like a much needed reevaluation on Super Mario Galaxy's ending and how Power of Bonds (While especially explained in Brothership is consistently hinted throughout the Mario series as a whole where there is an energy system with flexible names that embody the same concept). But all in all, I once again kept telling them to organize their arguments in an orderly fashion. But that doesn't just give other staff members to just prematurely shut down all discussions that they personally detest.

 

[Galactidot]

He isn't rehashing the same arguments, he actually found new translations; whether the translations themselves are accurate is a different story.

Adding onto this, I linked the text along with the scans so anyone else can verify these translations if so desired. That being said, I already have had some people approve them

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Adding onto this, I linked the text along with the scans so anyone else can verify these translations if so desired. That being said, I already have had some people approve them

It's still recommended to go here for those.

 

[Galactidot]

It's still recommended to go here for those.

Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)

Can someone translate this?

vsbattles.com

Donezo!

 

[Armorchompy]

But all in all, I once again kept telling them to organize their arguments in an orderly fashion. But that doesn't just give other staff members to just prematurely shut down all discussions that they personally detest.

To say that I am shutting things down "prematurely" is truly ludicrous given this thread has been open for over five months. I have the permission and the obligation to shut threads that are made on invalid grounds which includes simply re-posting arguments that were debated in previous threads without new valid additions. I do not have the ability or the desire to immediately close anything that's actually adding more to the conversation, specifically what I am opposed to is encouraging the same user to make what will likely be a poorly argued thread. That should be in your interest as well. With that said:

Though I do recommend to avoid making tier specific upgrade threads based on certain characters and instead focus on the more general lore stuff; like a much needed reevaluation on Super Mario Galaxy's ending and how Power of Bonds

If the ultimate goal of a revision or series of revisions is a tier upgrade the implications of said "lore" changes should be made clear immediately even if they are not immediately being discussed.

 

[Armorchompy]

I do not have the ability or the desire to immediately close anything that's actually adding more to the conversation

With that said, given it has been a particularly annoying trend in recent Mario CRTs, I ask that if such a thread or series of threads is made, that the people behind it present their entire case in the opening post. In both of the Reclusa CRTs and the Paper Mario one, as well as others, large posts containing new evidence and arguments were repeatedly made well after the creation of the thread. This is harmful to the quality of the discussion for various reasons, and while I cannot pretend that new things be posted at all (it's natural to provide evidence to support claims made in a debate) it should be done as minimally as possible, which is how threads are normally handled on this website.

 

[Galactidot]

To say that I am shutting things down "prematurely" is truly ludicrous given this thread has been open for over five months. I have the permission and the obligation to shut threads that are made on invalid grounds which includes simply re-posting arguments that were debated in previous threads without new valid additions. I do not have the ability or the desire to immediately close anything that's actually adding more to the conversation, specifically what I am opposed to is encouraging the same user to make what will likely be a poorly argued thread. That should be in your interest as well. With that said:

He isn't rehashing the same arguments, he actually found new translations; whether the translations themselves are accurate is a different story. And it's finally a piece of what I've been telling him to do from the beginning; actually show evidence of "Power of Bonds" being a UES. Which most definitely are starting to show signs between Power of Bonds and Power of Stars are liking creation feats as interchangeable with physical energy. And it was already demonstrated from Great Conductor's speech about unity and Power of Bonds are what fuel to make anyone or anything stronger.

New users grow all the time. Lots of people, staff included, started out as relatively amateur debaters before they grew and became a lot more professional. You cannot just be a total control freak who just locks every thread that doesn't suit your liking. That is exactly the same that got people like Matthew Schroeder, WeeklyBattles, and Eficiente demoted; the same thing could very well happen to you if you keep up this type of behavior. Having controversial viewpoints or personal agenda is one thing, but using those as a means to go off the deep end is unprofessional.

 

[Galactidot]

With that said, given it has been a particularly annoying trend in recent Mario CRTs, I ask that if such a thread or series of threads is made, that the people behind it present their entire case in the opening post. In both of the Reclusa CRTs and the Paper Mario one, as well as others, large posts containing new evidence and arguments were repeatedly made well after the creation of the thread. This is harmful to the quality of the discussion for various reasons, and while I cannot pretend that new things be posted at all (it's natural to provide evidence to support claims made in a debate) it should be done as minimally as possible, which is how threads are normally handled on this website.

The reason a new thread could work is that HYPOTHETICALLY, you would respond to my evidence (and actually provide some of your own when necessitated.)

Simply saying "baseless conjecture, case closed" isn't enough when your arguments are exactly that. I have been giving as much evidence as reasonable upfront, the reason I'm adding on is to respond to arguments you make. Albeit, you don't acknowledge these responses.

I assure you if you looked, your questions will be answered quite quickly, more than you anticipate.

 

[Armorchompy]

Right, I suppose I should acknowledge the elephant in the room.

New users grow all the time. Lots of people, staff included, started out as relatively amateur debaters before they grew and became a lot more professional. You cannot just be a total control freak who just locks every thread that doesn't suit your liking. That is exactly the same that got people like Matthew Schroeder, WeeklyBattles, and Eficiente demoted; the same thing could very well happen to you if you keep up this type of behavior. Having controversial viewpoints or personal agenda is one thing, but using those as a means to go off the deep end is unprofessional.

You know full well there is an abyss of difference between my behavior and that of those individuals, and if you do not then you are welcome at any time to make an HR report. More than just about anyone else in the wiki I think your accusation would be given weight. Until then I would thank you to avoid these reminders as they are extremely pointless. Similarly, I take issue with the insinuation that I am somehow uniquely driven by "controversial viewpoints or personal agenda".

Regarding the actual thread, I'm not interested in responding because even if I were to continue the debate it likely wouldn't go anywhere. It's an old thread full of disjointed discussion and that's highly unlikely to lead to any kind of result. I'll admit that Galactidot is putting forth new things but this doesn't mean I am forced to engage with them. Either way I'll apologize to them in that regard.

 

[Galactidot]

I'll admit that Galactidot is putting forth new things but this doesn't mean I am forced to engage with them. Either way I'll apologize to them in that regard.

Thank you. I've been waiting to hear this for a while. But you've known this the whole time.

I have been posting new things and scans for quite some time in regards to this thread, whether it be supporting evidence, or something completely new, like in this case.

Considering that you now acknowledge this, you should be able to see the issue I've had recently with you not engaging, but disagreeing without reading the arguments.

See, I've been trying to give you a load off. But BY DEFINITION, there's no reason to disagree with a thread that's arguments have all already been definitively answered.

If you want to disagree, you need to read the thread. It's common logic.

If you don't want to engage, just... Don't.

But if you claim the sky is green, only for someone to prove to you that it's actually blue, you shouldn't continue the argument if you decide to ignore the evidence...

I'm not even saying this out of spite, It's legitimately not fair for me when you do that...