Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid CRT cuz bored for like the third time

[CastoriceTheFifth]

So I was looking and saw this calc

Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid: Tohru + Elma Beam Combo

vsbattles.fandom.com

The anime end was accepted and stated to be usable in the comments by 3 different CGMs as the anime version is just a zoomed-out version of the manga.

It was also proposed here for a "At least MHS+, possibly Sub-Rel" with Ant saying it's probably fine.

After that it's radio silence and no mentions of the anime end despite all that and only the redux manga version being used

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KLOL506/Miss_Kobayashi%27s_Dragon_Maid:_Tohru_%2B_Elma_Beam_Clash_REDUX_(Speed)

Should the Anime end be used as a full rating, a possibly rating, or discarded?

Also Tohru should get Supernatural willpower for continuing to fight on despite crippling pain, hit 30 times by acid/flame attacks, numerous strikes to her vital organs, and got pierced through her heart

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Anime adds more context on what happened so it should be used

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I'm also in favor of a full rating because idk why it even warrants a possibly rating in the first place.

 

[Bruhtelho]

if the anime is literally the exact same feat just with added visuals then it should be fine to use esp if it was accepted by calc members.

the calc also points out that:

Kanna visibly saw Tohru's mouth beam and reacted to it in return, Chapter 9.

Fafnir also reacted to Tohru's mouth beam and blocked it. Chapter 73.

so if their attacks are already Sub-Rel then so should their reactions and what not, imo a full rating makes more sense.

 

[Random-Helper323]

If both are approved we'd generally use the higher one, but in this case the difference is the anime is an adaptation. If it was approved though, and just a zoomed out shot of the same scene, it should be okay in theory.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

If both are approved we'd generally use the higher one, but in this case the difference is the anime is an adaptation. If it was approved though, and just a zoomed out shot of the same scene, it should be okay in theory.

Thanks for your input!

Yeah it looks like the anime end usage was approved but was never followed up upon.

Do you agree with the full scaling rating or the possibly rating like it was proposed in the QnA? I personally don’t know why it warrants a possibly rating either. Also is the Tohru Supernatural willpower addition fine?

 

[Random-Helper323]

It's an old calculation and standards have changed a bit since then, so it's probably best to ask for a follow up on that calculation at this point.

 

[Mbpoops]

Disagree

 

[Ebihara]

To me it looks like in both shots that the beam would keep going for a much longer distance if the shot was larger. Seeing the anime shot kinda confirms my susicspions and I bet if we zoomed out even more it would keep going even further cause the pillar still looks like it isnt losing strength.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Maybe a CGM could help here.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Maybe a CGM could help here.

Trying to see if a cgm could verify if the calc is still up to standards

 

[LaserPrecision]

Personally I'm for the manga end being used. Anime zooming out and making the beam go further is already changing the feat even ignoring the cloud dispersion it added. In the manga version, you can see the beam visually starting to disperse by the time it reaches the edge of the panel. Let alone as far as it went in the anime. That is unless there's context I'm missing or smth.

 

[Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh]

I hope this can still be used.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Anime zooming out and making the beam go further is already changing the feat

But thats not changing the feat. Thats just giving an additional information and context like explained in that QnA

In the manga version, you can see the beam visually starting to disperse by the time it reaches the edge of the panel.

It doesn't look like it's dispersing to me.

Also the shot of the anime is the beam dispersing

 

[Ebihara]

Anime shot looks like it could keep going. I truly dont wanna wank this anime please belive me.

It doesnt look like its dispersing to me in the manga i agree.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Anime shot looks like it could keep going. I truly dont wanna wank this anime please belive me.

It doesnt look like its dispersing to me in the manga i agree.

Wouldn't the anime's interpretation also take priority over our interpretation here too.

 

[Ebihara]

Litteraly no idea.

That should probably be decided via crt if nessearcy.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

It's an old calculation and standards have changed a bit since then, so it's probably best to ask for a follow up on that calculation at this point.

@Floxy178 confirmed the calc to be usable. Do you approve of the crt?

 

[Random-Helper323]

@Floxy178 confirmed the calc to be usable. Do you approve of the crt?

I meant about using adaptations, not about calculations.

 

[Sparkive]

I don't know, looking at the image of both, the curvature and the angle at which it was shot are different

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Kobayashi-san_Chi_no_Maid_Dragon_S_-_05_(1080p).mkv_snapshot_08.13.246.png

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Kobayashi%27s_Dragon_Maid_Chapter_44_Beam_Clash_Outer_Space.jpg

I mean, I don't know what the minimum is for them to be considered different, but it doesn't inspire confidence to me.
For reference, here's the image used in the pixel scaling.

http://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Tohru_Elma_Beam_Clash_Anime_Scene.png

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Tohru_Elma_Beam_Clash_Manga_Scene_Re-do.png

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I don't know, looking at the image of both, the curvature and the angle at which it was shot are different

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Kobayashi-san_Chi_no_Maid_Dragon_S_-_05_(1080p).mkv_snapshot_08.13.246.png

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Kobayashi%27s_Dragon_Maid_Chapter_44_Beam_Clash_Outer_Space.jpg

I mean, I don't know what the minimum is for them to be considered different, but it doesn't inspire confidence to me.
For reference, here's the image used in the pixel scaling.

http://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Tohru_Elma_Beam_Clash_Anime_Scene.png

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Tohru_Elma_Beam_Clash_Manga_Scene_Re-do.png

Yeah because the difference is the anime is a zoomed out shot while the manga is a zoomed in shot. Thats what the difference is. Its still the same feat and the same scene

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I meant about using adaptations, not about calculations.

Oh I thought you meant the calculations

My Hero Academia: Mindscape

vsbattles.fandom.com

I mean theres My Hero Academia. The anime isn't canon but it can use anime shots as long as its the same exact feat and all it does is just adds context



Theres a new shot the anime added that shows the full extent of the explosion

Meanwhile this is the manga

So yeah, I'm pretty sure it's allowed considering the fact that compared to MHA, Its just zoomed out to see more of the beam.

 

[Random-Helper323]

They don't look incompatible. The issue is this resembles the ship explosion in Hellsing, where the anime showed more of the blast. There were issues using the anime version there.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Oh I thought you meant the calculations

My Hero Academia: Mindscape

vsbattles.fandom.com

I mean theres My Hero Academia. The anime isn't canon but it can use anime shots as long as its the same exact feat and all it does is just adds context



Theres a new shot the anime added that shows the full extent of the explosion

Meanwhile this is the manga

So yeah, I'm pretty sure it's allowed considering the fact that compared to MHA, Its just zoomed out to see more of the beam.

Okay, these things are often debated, but I'll say I think it's probably okay to use the anime version for this. Others might not agree.

 

[LaserPrecision]

But thats not changing the feat. Thats just giving an additional information and context like explained in that QnA

Making a beam go further than it did in the source material is changing the feat (You also didn't quote the part of it adding in cloud dispersion but that's fine ig). That's what the feat being calculated is.

It doesn't look like it's dispersing to me.

It very much is, and it's very easy to see. Here's the page:

Here's a zoomed in image of the laser that clearly shows the beam at its brightest and concentrated at the base, and dispersing and falling apart towards the top:

The middle of the beam is already falling apart like fireworks or raindrops, and towards the top the beam is very clearly dispersing into light particles rather than stagnating as a dense pillar-like beam (You can even see the stars in the background through it as it thins and disperses). Something hardly showcased in the anime at all with it remaining as dense and pillar-like the entire time.

Makes more sense to just use the manga's distance and the anime's time frame for the feat then to use the anime which depicts the feat differently for the distance.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Making a beam go further than it did in the source material is changing the feat (You also didn't quote the part of it adding in cloud dispersion but that's fine ig). That's what the feat being calculated is.

It very much is, and it's very easy to see. Here's the page:

Here's a zoomed in image of the laser that clearly shows the beam at its brightest and concentrated at the base, and dispersing and falling apart towards the top:

The middle of the beam is already falling apart like fireworks or raindrops, and towards the top the beam is very clearly dispersing into light particles rather than stagnating as a dense pillar-like beam (You can even see the stars in the background through it as it thins and disperses). Something hardly showcased in the anime at all with it remaining as dense and pillar-like the entire time.

Makes more sense to just use the manga's distance and the anime's time frame for the feat then to use the anime which depicts the feat differently for the distance.

The manga one just looks like the beam is still forming at the top, as the anime clearly depicts that it continues its path in a straight line. Idk why we should even use the manga when it doesn't show the true distance it has covered

 

[LaserPrecision]

The manga one just looks like the beam is still forming at the top, as the anime clearly depicts that it continues its path in a straight line. Idk why we should even use the manga when it doesn't show the true distance it has covered

I'm saying the manga did showcase the true distance it covered. Also, by that same logic the anime shouldn't either because it doesn't show the full distance.

You can visually see the beam fraying like a thread towards the middle and completely dispersing into particulates at the top where the beam is becoming more dim. If it is already starting to fade and fray apart, then there's no reason to assume it went several hundred or thousand kilometers further like in the anime where the beam is as thick and vibrant the whole way through.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I'm saying the manga did showcase the true distance it covered.

It only zoomed in and showed a part of the action, not all of it. Using the manga pic which only depicts the beam from a point of view of half the planet while the anime doesn't is illogical

Also, by that same logic the anime shouldn't either because it doesn't show the full distance.

Gave much more context than the manga, where we still see the beam forming

You can visually see the beam fraying like a thread towards the middle and completely dispersing into particulates at the top where the beam is becoming more dim.

That doesn't really prove that the beam was fading away as the anime makes the contrary pretty clear

 

[LaserPrecision]

It only zoomed in and showed a part of the action, not all of it. Using the manga pic which only depicts the beam from a point of view of half the planet while the anime doesn't is illogical

The anime version is the same, the beam goes off screen. This point doesn't matter.

Gave much more context than the manga, where we still see the beam forming

So you agree the anime version is different and changed the feat, and added to it. That was what I addressed earlier.

That doesn't really prove that the beam was fading away as the anime makes the contrary pretty clear

The anime changed the feat. The beam in the anime looks completely different from in the manga. And what do you mean the beam starting to disperse doesn't prove the beam was fading away. We see it happening.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The anime version is the same, the beam goes off screen. This point doesn't matter.

No it is not. The manga makes it look far smaller than it actually was

The anime changed the feat. The beam in the anime looks completely different from in the manga. And what do you mean the beam starting to disperse doesn't prove the beam was fading away. We see it happening.

The manga minimize the size of the attack + shows us a beam that's still in formation. Why is it more reliable??

 

[LaserPrecision]

No it is not. The manga makes it look far smaller than it actually was

Yeah, that's the entire premise of the argument. The manga, which is the main source material, makes it look smaller. Thus we can't use the anime, because the anime makes it look far larger than it actually was. Anyone can tell this from a glance at the page.

The manga minimize the size of the attack + shows us a beam that's still in formation. Why is it more reliable??

Where do you get the idea that the beam is still in formation when it's shown clearly dispersing at the edge. Even Castorice acknowledged the beam was dispersing:

Also the shot of the anime is the beam dispersing

Prove that because the anime interprets a feat differently that that's what is happening in the manga which clearly depicts the feat differently. The problem with your argument is that it's completely circular. You can't prove your point without going back to the anime, and when I mention the anime is different, you say it's not, and when I ask why it's not, you mention the anime, so on and so on.

There isn't a point continuing this.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Yeah, that's the entire premise of the argument. The manga, which is the main source material, makes it look smaller. Thus we can't use the anime, because the anime makes it look far larger than it actually was. Anyone can tell this from a glance at the page.

Again, the manga use a different point of view, and it can easily be argued that the source material cut the scene sooner. Anyone who compare the 2 can see it as well

Where do you get the idea that the beam is still in formation when it's shown clearly dispersing at the edge. Even Castorice acknowledged the beam was dispersing:

The dispertion doesn't prove that this was the end of the attack. This is like shooting a water jet where the tip would obv look like that, like the anime displays it as well

 

[LaserPrecision]

Again, the manga use a different point of view, and it can easily be argued that the source material cut the scene sooner. Anyone who compare the 2 can see it as well

Or you can argue the anime extended the scene. This argument is pointless imo

The dispertion doesn't prove that this was the end of the attack. This is like shooting a water jet where the tip would obv look like that, like the anime displays it as well

Water jets aren't a good example because water jets hit a solid. Of course they disperse. And if you mean a water jet not aimed at cutting a solid, they also disperse at the end of their stream, so idk why you are using an example that disproves your point.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Or you can argue the anime extended the scene. This argument is pointless imo

Water jets aren't a good example because water jets hit a solid. Of course they disperse. And if you mean a water jet not aimed at cutting a solid, they also disperse at the end of their stream, so idk why you are using an example that disproves your point.

The tip will always look like that, but the jet itself can raise in height, so no, it does not go against my point

 

[LaserPrecision]

The tip will always look like that, but the jet itself can raise in height, so no, it does not go against my point

If it's the tip itself it can't go any further. Because the tip is by definition the furthest a stream reaches. That doesn't make any sense. This is like pointing at the middle of a snake and going "this is the tip of the snake"

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If it's the tip itself it can't go any further. Because the tip is by definition the furthest a stream reaches. That doesn't make any sense. This is like pointing at the middle of a snake and going "this is the tip of the snake"

The snake argument is so far off and unrelated to what Im trying to point out. What Im saying is that the top of a water jet will look like this from the moment you shoot it. What Im saying is that you make this sounds like a beam of water is a rectangle block

Also, the same firework particles at the supposed tip also appears in the anime, so why should we assume it was the end of the blast?

 

[LaserPrecision]

The snake argument is so far off and unrelated to what Im trying to point out. What Im saying is that the top of a water jet will look like this from the moment you shoot it. What Im saying is that you make this sounds like a beam of water is a rectangle block

the water will not look like that from the moment you shoot it because that's when it's most concentrated with the least energy loss. That's something that only happens once it starts losing energy towards the edge of its reach.

Also, the same firework particles at the supposed tip also appears in the anime, so why should we assume it was the end of the blast?

Because the anime depicts the beam completely differently from the manga. As I've said from the start. Thinner, more concentrated throughout. The manga is thicker, and starting to fray apart at the edge of its reach.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Not gonna lie, this shot looks really cool.

 

[Nierre]

LaserPrecision makes the most sense to me here.

Use the anime timeframe for the manga feat.

 

[Vietthai96]

The supernatural willpower is oke.

The calc need to be evaluated first