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When is Nicole called that?
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Genshin Impact - Tier 5 + Relativistic Shenanigans
- Thread starter Giannysmag
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- genshin impact
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Nicole is not split into three based on impure energies, nor is she not supposed to be alive. The Deadly Selves are beings who should not exist in the world for long and should’ve died long ago. This is what Zhongli explicitly said:
Have you actually played the quest or are you just LARPing? “All angels must be the same strength regardless of any condition they’re in!!!”.
Nice non-sequitur fallacy. Not only have you dodged all the arguments (the deadly selves being just a wisp of impure energy, or how the fact that they’re equal doesn’t mean 1/3rd of the original’s strength), but you also just made up the fact that they’re comparable, because sparring does not mean all of them are equal. The battle is of spirit, to isolate your impurities.
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Sinner and Sovereigns upscaling into 5A kinda just falls apart since 10% Rerir will just scale above Varka and Traveler. Also I definitely think we shouldn't scale Sinners like we used to scale the gods. They've had different experiences and used their powers differently. So Rhinedottir shouldn't automatically scale into 5A via being a Sinner. Sovereigns should just scale above archons.
AsterReal
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That sounds good to me.
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What’re you saying? I’m confused about this.
I think the Sinners should baseline be low 5-B, if not outright just 5-B
Disagree. They should be equal.
I basically have it as:
PO > Nibelung > Trilune (Together) > The Four Shades > Archons = Sovereigns.
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The OP has characters scaling to 5A due to being 10x the characters put forward for 5B. Neither Varka nor Traveler are getting 5B anymore.
Should all Sinners be scaled the same?
I'm considering Sovereigns superior due to Mavuika needing help to best transformed Gosoythoth. The forms Abyssal mimics take is based on their strength. I'm fine with a potentially higher thing on the rating though. While Sovereigns may be higher it isn't like we can put hard numbers to it.
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That was the reason for 5A? Lame.
Yes. They should. At their baseline.
Two things:
1. We both agree that the Abyss amps you. This means that Xiuhcoatl was not weakened, but rather stronger when he fought Xbalanque. Moreover, he also had full authority when he fought Xbalanque(i can explain this if you want). This means that Xbalanque without any divine powers was stronger than a full authority abyss amped Xiuhcoatl.
2. Abyssal mimics are stronger than the original forms:
“Abyssal monsters that grow like parasitic plants.
Agents of continuous corrosion, these distorters are capable of extracting memories from deeper layers of the earth, and through the power of the Abyss, reconstructing memories of greater potency. If left unchecked to pursue their corrosion of Teyvat, they may even find a sordid way to twist and trace over the most ancient memories of all.”
This only appears if you click on the tenebrous papilla on the map by the way.
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And Authority ≠ Strength.
Mistranslation:
The phrase "分庭抗禮" (fēn tíng kàng lǐ) is used and is an idiom in Chinese that conveys the idea of standing on equal terms with someone in terms of status. "分庭抗禮" describes a scenario where two parties or individuals are on equal footing, resisting the customary norms of politeness or deference. This idiom has been used as early as ancient chinese dynasties to imply parity in status. It was initially used in a story about a fisherman. Neuvi is as important as the human realm in status because he’s a dragon king who’s reestablished his position. If they wanted to say he was as strong as the human realm, they wouldn’t do mental gymnastics to say this with idioms and directly say it like they said for the Sinners.
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Yeah only Bina. Moontore, Shades, Nibelung and PO are scaling from a calc to 5A. Rerir and the Sovereigns just got 10x 5B guys.
Sure so it's just 10x Traveler or Varka.
I'm actually curious about how Xiuhcoatl. Didn't Kukulkan say Xabalanque only won because Xiuhcoatl had a weakspot due to his plans? Kukulkan also mentions that the archons are weak compared to the battles the dragons waged in the past.
Thanks for the info. How do you explain Azhdaha fighting Zhongli though? I know Azhdaha is not a 100% confirmed Sovereign but Sovereigns with their authority should just scale over other natural dragons right?
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What do you mean?
That’s actually worse. The primal flame that Xiuhcoatl covered around his body is basically like Gojo’s infinity. Even the PO couldn’t bypass it so they had to seal Xiuhcoatl.
Xiuhcoatl had a weakspot, as in, not a spot that was weaker stat wise, but a spot that could be harmed instead of invulnerability. Imagine Gojo, but he’s 100x bigger, and you’re human sized, and only Gojo’s eyes can be hit because everything else is covered by infinity.
This is what Xbalanque had to deal with. It’s actually a really good feat.
That was referring to the PO/Shades. The another statement in the CN just says that “some”(it has a very vague word that can mean some, few, many, all etc).
Azhdaha is a confirmed sovereign. But there’s nothing to explain here. They are equal/relative. Morax’s victory over Azhdaha is said to be unquestionable.
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10% Rerir beat both their butts so his 10% scales to them and his 100% should be 10 times stronger.
Frostyy I'm so sorry I keep asking you for sources but where are you getting this?
So what is it actually saying? Kukulkan still thought the dragons even without the Sovereign could take the Archons no?
So Azhdaha without his authority is comparable to Zhongli with the Gnosis? Is that not implying Sovereigns are stronger?
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10% Rerir was way stronger than them. Rerir just holds back a lot. A not even 1% Rerir was relative to Flins and the 6E traveler. He isn’t just “10x” stronger at his 100%. That’s my contention.
The city of Tollan was covered by the Primal Flame, you must at least know this right?
Anyway, the rest:
CL-09: I, too, shall abstain. Fifth Lord, surely you do not truly hope to persuade us that these wretched insects, these creatures who know naught but to cower in the dark and slaughter one another without end, will one day suddenly unite? That they might march upon the Sacred City, which not even the usurper of the sky could shake? Such absurd hysteria from a dragon, such loathsome cowardice... Unworthy even of my defiance.
Kukulkan: Xiuhcoatl was the master of the first flame, wielder of all light, heat, and wisdom. He controlled the primal flame, and could even plunge his entire body into it.
Kukulkan: By all rights, at that time, there was no way he could have been harmed...
Kukulkan: If he had not modified one of his pupils to serve as the control hub for Huitzilopochtli, that is.
Kukulkan: Because he had to monitor and anchor reality using this "eye," it became his sole weakness.
And then the PO sealing Xiuhcoatl:
Kukulkan: The reaver from beyond the skies once froze Xiuhcoatl in lava, causing him to fall into a false death...
No, it’s saying that the remaining Sovereigns could take on some of the Archons. That’s the implication.
No, because Authority is not strength. It’s hax. Getting authority doesn’t immediately make you win a fight. Post Authority Azhdaha would be comparable to Gnosis amped Zhongli as well. Also the fact that his victory was said to be unquestionable from a Dev perspective.
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Fair. You wanted to scale him to 5B yeah?10% Rerir was way stronger than them. Rerir just holds back a lot. A not even 1% Rerir was relative to Flins and the 6E traveler. He isn’t just “10x” stronger at his 100%. That’s my contention.
The city of Tollan was covered by the Primal Flame, you must at least know this right?
Anyway, the rest:
CL-09: I, too, shall abstain. Fifth Lord, surely you do not truly hope to persuade us that these wretched insects, these creatures who know naught but to cower in the dark and slaughter one another without end, will one day suddenly unite? That they might march upon the Sacred City, which not even the usurper of the sky could shake? Such absurd hysteria from a dragon, such loathsome cowardice... Unworthy even of my defiance.
The second one.
Kukulkan: Xiuhcoatl was the master of the first flame, wielder of all light, heat, and wisdom. He controlled the primal flame, and could even plunge his entire body into it.
Kukulkan: By all rights, at that time, there was no way he could have been harmed...
Kukulkan: If he had not modified one of his pupils to serve as the control hub for Huitzilopochtli, that is.
Kukulkan: Because he had to monitor and anchor reality using this "eye," it became his sole weakness.
And then the PO sealing Xiuhcoatl:
Kukulkan: The reaver from beyond the skies once froze Xiuhcoatl in lava, causing him to fall into a false death...
No, it’s saying that the remaining Sovereigns could take on some of the Archons. That’s the implication.
No, because Authority is not strength. It’s hax. Getting authority doesn’t immediately make you win a fight. Post Authority Azhdaha would be comparable to Gnosis amped Zhongli as well. Also the fact that his victory was said to be unquestionable from a Dev perspective.
Well it is inside a volcano lol. I'd assume there'd at least be some fire around.
Thanks for that.
Got it.
The Authorities were used to make the Gnosis though and we've seen characters get stronger from the Gnosis or refer to it as a power source.
AsterReal
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The Gnosis were created from the remains of the Third Descender. The Elemental Authorities were linked to the Divine Thrones in Celestia.
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Right.
Well, it was specifically the fire that Xiuhcoatl used to defend himself.
Contrary to popular belief, the authorities were NOT used to make the gnosis. The Authority is in the Divine throne, which is why Focalors had to destroy the Divine throne to give Neuvilette the Authority, and the Gnosis has individual powers. What i mean is: Neuvi, after gaining his authority, says that he does not need the Gnosis’s power, which implies that the Gnosis still has power despite him already having the hydro authority. This directly separates the Gnosis and the Authority.
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It still acts a power boost right?
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The gnosis acts as a power boost. The authority acts as an addition of abilities/hax. HoYo has consistently separated raw power and Sovereign authority.
The source of a Dragon’s strength is actually their age. As they age, they accumulate more dense elemental energy. This was explained to us back in Nahida’s second story quest.
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So would Neuvillete not be on the weaker side?
AsterReal
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Considering that he is 500 years old and would be a relatively young Dragon, I don't think he is comparable to his predecessor. I believe it was Sahl who wrote in Neuvillette's profile that his Authority made him equal to his predecessor/past life. However, I don't think Neuvillette is comparable to the first Hydro Sovereign.
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Yes. He’d be actually arguably weaker than Dvalin because he’s younger than Dvalin. That’s really bad because Dvalin is not particularly strong compared to others, especially when the 1E traveler can stay in a fight with him. Regardless, Neuvi will only grow strong as time passes.
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So are we just scaling Neuvillete over Fontaine Tortellini?
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No. He’s weaker than Fontaine Childe, despite this being a massively controversial take. If only woomy was here, he’d agree too, bro got erased.
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Mistranslation. The CN just says “he’s at least a thousand years old”. On top of which, Furina isn’t reliable, she’s only 500 years old and she shouldn’t know anything about Neuvilette before his role as the Iudex. She herself was just guessing here.
We have several statements suggesting he was only born after Egeria passed away, which’d mean he’s only 500 years old.
AsterReal
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As far as I remember, it was said that as long as Egeria was alive, the Dragon Sovereign Hydro could not be reborn. So it must be 500 years old, since Egeria died in the cataclysm.
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This particular statement has other interpretations. However, we learn from Neuvi’s character stories that the PO made Egeria suppress Neuvillette, hence why he couldn’t be reincarnated while Egeria (Heart of the Primordial Sea) lived.
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Bump
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So are in agreement with none of the proposed tier 5Bs getting tier 5? Traveler and a bunch of those guys stay tier 6?
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Gianny for some reason left this unnattended, so maybe i should do mine instead (first i have to have mods in my currrent CRT)
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We can just @Giannysmag right?
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Meanwhile Gianny in Turkey
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If he doesn’t respond you can just make a new thread and we’ll sort this out there
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Yeah, agreed, but hold off on people like Apep, Neuvilette and Xiuhcoatl.
Me and Woomy will make a separate thread to downscale the Sovereigns as a whole to put them in tier 6 along the ‘archon’ tier.
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Sounds interesting. Is Woomy banned rn?
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Lol guess we’ll get to it in a week
Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh
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okay, so any summary regarding this thread from both OP and the OPPS?
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