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Genshin Impact - Tier 5 + Relativistic Shenanigans

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AsterReal said:
Genshin cannot sustain any level above 5 on this wiki. The countless updates and downgrades from Tier 4 prove it.
Click to expand...
the only thing that could proof such thing is future events in game.
Either that or Nibelung/Phanes having an animated short showing how their collateral damage litterally made a sun go supernova
 
I am just gonna respond to op.
Giannysmag said:
AP Upgrade

Characters in this tier scale to Nicole, Varka and Arlecchino who are able to bring down the Frost Moon from space [959.82 Zettatons]. While Nicole is obviously the main source of power, Varka and Arlecchino are clearly contributing as both of them have their respective elemental auras active and the in-game Travel Log attributes the moon pulling to them, thus for the shake of simplicity we'll assume that the feat is divided evenly across the 3 of them.

Since Arlecchino is rank 4 of the Fatui Harbingers, with only the top 3 of the Archons having power that rivals that of the Archons, every Archon and those on their level would scale to 5-B [319.94 Ronnatons]

Characters who scale:

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It was a team effort, and I’m fairly confident Nicole was supplying the majority of the power. You can’t just split the total output evenly without clear confirmation, so there’s no solid basis to chain-scale this feat. I’m going to stay neutral or disagree if it comes down to it but I’m not agreeing with that right now.
Giannysmag said:
Characters in this tier include those who are stated to possess power that rivals an entire world, such as the 5 Sinners, the 7 Sovereigns and the 4 Shades. They are regarded by those in the previous tier as higher powers and transcendent beings.

These characters scale to Rerir's full power. Rerir while only being able to muster 10% of his full strength is still more powerful than the entire Nod Krai cast combined and should thus scale to the full scale of the previous feat [959.82 Zettatons]. This would make those in this tier 5-A [9.59 Yottatons].

Characters who scale:

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This fine.
Giannysmag said:
Characters in this tier stand at the peak of the verse for one reason or another and scale primeraly to Columbina moving the Frost and Iridecent Moon [20.5 Yottatons].

Those possesing the Trilunar Authority, Columbina and Dottore, have control over Teyvat's most primordial powers, predating even those of the Shades. With these powers they reach or even surpass the level of the Gods and they are capable of battling one another.

The 4 (5) Shades, Asmoday, Istraroth, Ronova, Naberius (and Rhinedottir) are also here based on the dev statement of Dottore being equal to them.

Surtalogi, the self proclaimed greatest calamity in the universe also resides in this tier. While originally he possesed power that rivals a world like the rest of the Sinners, in his current level he is on par with multiple world per Skirk's word (whom hasn't even seen Surtalogi's full strength). Thus Surtalogi is several times more powerful than those in the previous tier.

Finally Phanes and Nibelung sit here, as the very strongest of the the verse, outclassing even the Moon Goddesses.
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this fine too.
Giannysmag said:
Speed Upgrade

The Traveler and Flins are able to intercept Aino's canon, which moves at the speed of light, which was calced at 10.88% SOL (Relativistic). I believe everyone in the Archon Tier should scale to this feat as a massively weakened Columbina could still keep up with and react to Rerir (with Columbina only reaching the power she had as the 3rd Harbinger at the end of the quest)

The higher tiers would scale 10 times above this feat from Rerir, putting them at 1,08x SOL (FTL).
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Hmm, I’ll hold off and wait a bit before sharing my thoughts on this.
 
Giannysmag said:
If everyone thinks the Shades should also scale to the moon feat then whatever, why not

I wanted to talk about this here but forgot.

The justification used for Nibelungs 4-C "feat" is from the staff of the scarlet sands, which says that the Moons and the Sun where created at the same time (and from that it's infered that since Nibelung created the moons he also created the sun).

The problem is that the SotSS description goes on to say that after the sun and moons, the world was created. We know from Skirk's artifact set that Nibelung was created alongside the world, and since Nibelung created the moons the world cannot be younger than them, which makes the entire timeline the description gives seem suspect. Since SotSS is narrated by King Deshret rather than the usual omniscient narrator I think it's fair to say that this is just a case of him being unreliable and we should disregard the idea of Nibelung creating the Sun unitl given further evidence.
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You can give a possible rating for it?
 
TWILIGHT-OP said:
It was a team effort, and I’m fairly confident Nicole was supplying the majority of the power. You can’t just split the total output evenly without clear confirmation, so there’s no solid basis to chain-scale this feat. I’m going to stay neutral or disagree if it comes down to it but I’m not agreeing with that right now.
Click to expand...
Even if u disagree with Arle/Varka scaling (which i also do) to this feat we have evidence of Zibai, another angel, being comparable multiple times to Prime Morax. So yeah Varka and other archon lvls such as (Archons, Traveler, Top 3 Harbinger, etc) should be fine scaling to somewhere near Nicole
 
Agree with the 5A stuff. All those characters scaling to the moon pull is a bit iffy though. Nicole seemed to be the main contributor so we can’t actually say how luch effort Arlecchino and Varka put in. Them having their auras around them isn’t like a great indicator as Traveler tore through Dottore’s shield with his pyro but we treat that as Columbina buffing.

Due to the Zibai statement though, Zhongli, Ei, Mavuika, Capitano, Azhdaha and Shouki no Kami would scale.

Something odd though id Arlecchino is listed as not being archon tier to justify the scaling but if she’s stronger than Sumeru Traveler then she’d be archon tier
 
Puppet43 said:
Even if u disagree with Arle/Varka scaling (which i also do) to this feat we have evidence of Zibai, another angel, being comparable multiple times to Prime Morax. So yeah Varka and other archon lvls such as (Archons, Traveler, Top 3 Harbinger, etc) should be fine scaling to somewhere near Nicole
Click to expand...
I would also like to add that Jahoda literally says that Varka pulled the moon down, so he and Arle still scale to the feat anyways

70faf8d06491e43abd9c4a0fc765beb3_7151492366489698484.jpeg
 
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
Agree with the 5A stuff. All those characters scaling to the moon pull is a bit iffy though. Nicole seemed to be the main contributor so we can’t actually say how luch effort Arlecchino and Varka put in. Them having their auras around them isn’t like a great indicator as Traveler tore through Dottore’s shield with his pyro but we treat that as Columbina buffing.

Due to the Zibai statement though, Zhongli, Ei, Mavuika, Capitano, Azhdaha and Shouki no Kami would scale.

Something odd though id Arlecchino is listed as not being archon tier to justify the scaling but if she’s stronger than Sumeru Traveler then she’d be archon tier
Click to expand...
Arlecchino is indeed stronger than the Sumeru Traveler in Genshin Impact: Ignis Purgatorius Chapter
 
Natsuki012 said:
I would also like to add that Jahoda literally says that Varka pulled the moon down, so he and Arle still scale to the feat anyways
Click to expand...
First of all
  • Jahoda isn't a reliable source when she wasn't even in the battlefield so she didn't saw what actually happend
  • Varka is consistenly stated to be Archon lvl, with a lot of people saying he is around Capitano lvl and he would had been the hero that defeated Dvalin (Weakend by abyss). So he would still scale with my argument
  • My problem arrives with Arle scaling
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
Yes that’s the weird bit I’m noting
Click to expand...
That's why we should had agree with Traveler not scaling to 6B until Natlan
 
Puppet43 said:
That's why we should had agree with Traveler not scaling to 6B until Natlan
Click to expand...
I can agree on that but we can’t ignore Traveler taking blows from and doing damage to Shouki no Kami. Traveler kinda has to downscale from him based on feats.

I think only way we’re getting rid of that 6B scaling is if Traveler had more showings that suggested otherwise to them scaling to Shouki no Kami but we have two separate fights to pull from.
 
Actually wait, did Nahida say Shouki no Kami scales to the archons or just gods in general because those should be two different things right? Orobashi is a god but he doesn’t compare to Ei and Zhongli at all
 
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
Actually wait, did Nahida say Shouki no Kami scales to the archons or just gods in general because those should be two different things right? Orobashi is a god but he doesn’t compare to Ei and Zhongli at all
Click to expand...
She said Gods, but for whatever reason this wiki tries to put all god statments as archon lvl
Thats why i only scale Capi at archon lvl while Base Bina and Dottore are lower gods (Andrius, Orobashi and shi)
Do even with Archons just Zhongli, Ei, Venti, Mavuika and Xbalanque actually are stronger than the rest of the gods, the rest (Nahida, Foca, Rukkh, Makoto, Egeria) are kinda fodder
 
1)Btw I think Sovereigns>moon goddess
Pyro Sovereign was going to make a fourth moon but stopped his work to fight in the second war
(This means a sovereign can create a moon)
Sovereigns could fight the heavenly principles for 40yrs...
The moon goddess thought they themselves had no chance to fight against them
The heavenly principles one shotted the moons(atleast their celestial bodies..as shown in the nodkrai act 6 murals)..... but took 40yrs to win against sovereign
2)Also shades should be a tier above the moon goddess....
They are superior to the sovereigns
Also they have complete authority over the laws(death,life etc) compared to the moon goddess and even said to transcend the said laws
For example Renova's power is not just death mani
It's like the power to end things like how she destroyed asmoday's space in the god's limit trailer
Also in the nodkrai luna act 8... they said that nibuleng didn't fully teach the moon goddess to fully use the powers
 
Puppet43 said:
She said Gods, but for whatever reason this wiki tries to put all god statments as archon lvl
Thats why i only scale Capi at archon lvl while Base Bina and Dottore are lower gods (Andrius, Orobashi and shi)
Do even with Archons just Zhongli, Ei, Venti, Mavuika and Xbalanque actually are stronger than the rest of the gods, the rest (Nahida, Foca, Rukkh, Makoto, Egeria) are kinda fodder
Click to expand...
So with that said does Shouki no Kami have any reason to scale to 6B? Puppet do you have the og chinese statement?
 
Puppet43 said:
Twilight could we get at least 5B Archon tiers via Zibai's statments or ur gonna still disagreeing with my proposal?
Click to expand...
I’m still a bit unsure about that and would prefer to hear what the other mods think first.
 
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
Puppet do you have the og chinese statement?
Click to expand...
派蒙:这种威压的感觉,确实是神明级的……
-
此刻的他也已经是货真价实的「神明」了
-
纳西妲:不过,从精神的角度上,我不认为他达到了神明的高度。
-
汇聚须弥教令院六大学院力量制造出的人造正机神,拥有比肩真神的威能。
.
These are all the statments i could find, with all that said i couldn't find 魔神 which means Archon. I could find 神 which means deity in a vague way
 
Puppet43 said:
派蒙:这种威压的感觉,确实是神明级的……
-
此刻的他也已经是货真价实的「神明」了
-
纳西妲:不过,从精神的角度上,我不认为他达到了神明的高度。
-
汇聚须弥教令院六大学院力量制造出的人造正机神,拥有比肩真神的威能。
.
These are all the statments i could find, with all that said i couldn't find 魔神 which means Archon. I could find 神 which means deity in a vague way
Click to expand...
In that case we shouldn’t treat Shouki no Kami as being archon tier and likewise we should stop trying to scale characters stated to be god tier and not archon level to the archons.
 
Natsuki012 said:
It is accepted on the wiki that all archons scale to each other. That is why we have Focalors as 6B even though she's featless
Click to expand...
Yeah and we’re contesting that in another CRT right now

vsbattles.com

Casting a Celestial Nail upon this verse

I'm tired of seeing characters clearly listed as weaker than an archon in the same tier as them, so let's put an end to this. To begin with this, we must first find the basis for why these characters are in the same tier as the archons. And we find that reason in Shouki no Kami. In his Attack...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
IReallyLoveRilysse said:
1)Btw I think Sovereigns>moon goddess
Pyro Sovereign was going to make a fourth moon but stopped his work to fight in the second war(This means a sovereign can create a moon)
Click to expand...
They never completed the creation of the Fourth Moon, and in fact that Moon failed to come into being and its remains became Nod-Krai. The Three Moons were born from the power of Nibelung, and I doubt that the Sovereigns even come close to Nibelung in terms of power.
IReallyLoveRilysse said:
Sovereigns could fight the heavenly principles for 40yrs...
The moon goddess thought they themselves had no chance to fight against them
Click to expand...
Only Nicole claims that the Moon Goddesses could do nothing against the Heavenly Principles; they themselves tell Columbina that they were preparing countermeasures against the Heavenly Principles.
IReallyLoveRilysse said:
The heavenly principles one shotted the moons(atleast their celestial bodies..as shown in the nodkrai act 6 murals)..... but took 40yrs to win against sovereign
Click to expand...
The destruction of the moons directly affected the Moon Goddesses because they need the moons to live. That is why Columbina could barely stay alive with her connection to her Moon severed.
IReallyLoveRilysse said:
2)Also shades should be a tier above the moon goddess....
They are superior to the sovereigns
Also they have complete authority over the laws(death,life etc) compared to the moon goddess and even said to transcend the said laws
For example Renova's power is not just death mani
It's like the power to end things like how she destroyed asmoday's space in the god's limit trailer
Also in the nodkrai luna act 8... they said that nibuleng didn't fully teach the moon goddess to fully use the powers
Click to expand...
The part in bold is incorrect. What Nibelung did not teach them was something that the Heavenly Principles had in their new system of laws (world order), which the sisters found intriguing and wanted to see if it was good or bad for Teyvat. It is not stated that Nibelung did not teach them how to use their powers completely.
 
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
Can everyone who’s invested in this take a look at the other CRT as well? We’re discussing how the scaling will actually go. @Frostyyyy12 brought up that Zhongli and the archons wouldn’t scale to 5B
Click to expand...
They do
Even without counting the statment of Zibai being surprise by Morax, one selve of her was able to help him against Adzhada.
We know that Zhongli's selves can spar between each other; meaning at least each one is 1/3 of zhongli power
By that logic 1/3 of an Angel was helping Zhongli against an equal character
.
(I propossed some changes to this via Discord, but Gianny is on vacation rn)
Bassicly we would had Nicole scaling 1/3 of Moon feat 319.94 Zettatons
and Archons lvl scaling 1/3 of Nicole and Zibai 106.646667 Zettatons
 
Puppet43 said:
one selve of her was able to help him against Adzhada.
Click to expand...
So?
Puppet43 said:
We know that Zhongli's selves can spar between each other; meaning at least each one is 1/3 of zhongli power
Click to expand...
Zhongli’s selves sparring against each other does not mean that they are 1/3rd of Zhongli’s strength. How are you assuming that the original person’s strength gets divided when the Three Deadly Selves is merely an adeptal art which you practice to identify and sever corrupted layers within yourself. They can have like, 0.0001% of the original’s strength, and it doesn’t matter, because it’s to hone your spirit by removing corruption. This is literally a textbook false equivalence.

Hell, Zibai’s Deadly Selves are also extremely complicated, and different from others. This is because she was split at the time of her death, so why should her power at the time of her death be as strong as Nicole’s 5B feat?

Plus, Zizhi had been alive as a Deadly Self for over 5000 years at that point. Her powers have surely gotten weaker, because Zhongli says that as time passed, Zizhi got weaker and weaker. Plus, Zizihi herself says that she was a mere trace of impure energy in Zibai’s immortal body:

I was merely a trace of impure energy within Zibai's immortal body. When her soul was shattered, it should have been the end of me.
Click to expand...

This is literally assumption stacking and you can never actually gauge any scaling between Zhongli and a real Angel.
 
Frostyyyy12 said:
Zizhi had been alive as a Deadly Self for over 5000 years at that point. Her powers have surely gotten weaker, because Zhongli says that as time passed, Zizhi got weaker and weaker.
Click to expand...
Nicole should had the same agespan and she still is called the Prime of Angels. Lmao
Frostyyyy12 said:
Zhongli’s selves sparring against each other does not mean that they are 1/3rd of Zhongli’s strength. How are you assuming that the original person’s strength gets divided when the Three Deadly Selves is merely an adeptal art which you practice to identify and sever corrupted layers within yourself. They can have like, 0.0001% of the original’s strength, and it doesn’t matter, because it’s to hone your spirit by removing corruption. This is literally a textbook false equivalence.
Click to expand...
"I wont wanna scale x to y even do its stated and shown multiple times they are comparable"
 
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