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This doesn’t necessarily attack the point but this made me remember that Undyne literally has a lot of bones of Papyrus as gifts stuffed in her small drawer, with alot of them seemingly cut off. Can’t this just be used against that?
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The nuking of Undertale: Part 1 out of 6 or 7
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Regarding the Mettaton bomb, the point is to trick Frisk specifically, right? Since the bomb hit them it would probably need some force to sell the illusion so you could calc it as a low-pressure explosion, unless I misunderstand the context. For the rest I agree with OP so far.
Axorandom0
He/Him- 1,020
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1 psi since it’s the “Bare minimum recommended for intent to harm personnel”. Maybe 0.5 if you’re being stingy with it. Can’t be 3 since that’s when fatalities start happening and Frisk no-selling it is a big point against that.
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is goat gonna debunk the LOW 1C scales?
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Well, if you're trying to get someone to think it's an explosion then it has to have some force as I said. 1 PSI as others said I suppose.
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Does it mean that Frisk cannot even be 9-B lol?
Axorandom0
He/Him- 1,020
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I don’t think so? Besides, without this single assumption, I really dunno where we would put the psi at
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following, tho i will only interact with the tier 1 stuff so ye
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,594
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Is this consistent with the battle sprite btw? I know the Overworld sprites are are pretty limited, most of them are around 50×50 pixels, so there’s only so much detail you can expect there. The battle sprites are, well, bigger and have Mettaton on the front and center.(Imgur link)
The soul width should be changed to around 0.15m aka 15cm via Mettaton's heart-shaped core.
Delusionaltx2
He/Him- 6,212
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Tier 1/2 UT is a far more blatant thing that would need the wiki to straight up do what they did with 2A dmc and straight up change it's rules or add new rules as a whole for it to not work
Axorandom0
He/Him- 1,020
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Ok I just remembered, they don’t. There has been an accepted calc where the psi is only put at 3 because the explosion seemed to be intended as “generically dangerous”, so putting it as 1 because it’s less than that makes sense.
EnderLord8
Any/All- 4,316
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It would be funny if this CRT indirectly caused an 8-A calculation to be made and approved... That would be hilarious...
Delusionaltx2
He/Him- 6,212
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With how the verse is gonna end up though...we would need multiple tier 8 calculations before that becomes possible otherwise it would be really easy for the opposition to just argue "outlier".
Yeah, let's just be content with the idea that level 19 frisk with real knife and heart locket is on the same tier as light world kris
Rodriiogo
He/Him- 1,296
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- Thread starter
- #57
They don't know that once I am done with Undertale, Deltarune is next 
Using the battle sprite you get around 17-18cm for the heart core so yes it's consistent enough. (I think the overworld one is better regardless since the battle sprites are obviously inconsistent in size, especially seen during the intro for the asriel fight where we see all main monsters side by side.
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Agreed with everything, and I'm so hyped for the Low 1-C debunk cuz I personally think Undertale caps at Low 2-C but no one is ready for that talk
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I will ask y'all to kindly drop this topic and stick to OP. Thanks.
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sure np, mb
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That's fine
Delusionaltx2
He/Him- 6,212
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Hey hey hey! I'm the guy who made the Mettaton Steel kick calc. I'm not really gonna ask about that yet or comment on the rest of the thread just yet (although I am curious because it doesn't sound like a recalc is out of the question, but enough of that for now). I skimmed through the thread and saw that the soul width is 15 centimeters yeah? Papyrus contains all of his attacks in his box also yeah? Well I double checked to see what Papyrus' bone measurements would look like, here's what I got:
Soul: 49.01 pixels = 15 cm
Big Bone height: 709 pixels = 2.15 meters
Little Bone height: 143 pixels = 43.77 cm
Big bone width: 58 pixels = 17.75 cm
Little bone width: 14 pixels = 4.28 cm
Sorry if it seems super blurry but I'm ngl that box's width doesn't even look longer than Frisk's height. It's supposed to contain 402 bones INCLUDING the massive bone? I'm not calculating the volume right now but I'm sure if you did volume calcs here, the total volume of the box would still seem hilariously high no? My point is that if this is the issue, is 15 centimeters for the soul also kinda not high? I suppose if you assume that the game is extremely meta and the battle box stuff is canon like it seems to be in Deltarune, the attacks would vary in size based on combat which would make sense of the legs and Toriel hands stuff.
Soul: 49.01 pixels = 15 cm
Big Bone height: 709 pixels = 2.15 meters
Little Bone height: 143 pixels = 43.77 cm
Big bone width: 58 pixels = 17.75 cm
Little bone width: 14 pixels = 4.28 cm
Sorry if it seems super blurry but I'm ngl that box's width doesn't even look longer than Frisk's height. It's supposed to contain 402 bones INCLUDING the massive bone? I'm not calculating the volume right now but I'm sure if you did volume calcs here, the total volume of the box would still seem hilariously high no? My point is that if this is the issue, is 15 centimeters for the soul also kinda not high? I suppose if you assume that the game is extremely meta and the battle box stuff is canon like it seems to be in Deltarune, the attacks would vary in size based on combat which would make sense of the legs and Toriel hands stuff.
EnderLord8
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Lilybitdun
She/Her- 2,412
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The oven explosion is in the recalc blog, it's 21.91 Kilojoules
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In the thread accepted linked in part 1 it seems debunked for not being a explosion so I would assume so yeah. Also even if it was an explosion I think ISL was an issue since it wasn't used.
Axorandom0
He/Him- 1,020
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We’re (up to) 9-C? I’m pretty sure you’re overestimating the average Undertale powerscaler, m8.
Rodriiogo
He/Him- 1,296
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- Thread starter
- #71
Going off the recalc, the volume of the big bone would only be 0.09748990323m^3
Going off your measurements (cause I'm lazy to do it myself
) for the difference between the measurements of the big bone and small bones would be around 4.5x, less, you'd get around 0.0008555244872m^3 for each small bone. 0.0008555244872*402 = 0.3439208439m^3A 1m^3 box alone would fit the small bones easily on rough calcs. It fits way more than what the 50cm soul would do as I explained in OP.
Wanna add that, even if this wasn't the case, the other numerous consistencies on the soul being small would still impede such a high end like 50cm.
You'd need to tell me mettaton's core got over 3X BIGGER when it went out of his body during the fight since it previously fits in his chest/waist then it was th same size as our soul. Same with attacks like toriel's hand as you mentioned, that's a ridiculous claim imo.
Especially when you have someone like Asgore who straight up attacks the box with his own sprite and doesnt get just smaller/bigger because hes doing that.
In the calc thread it got accepted that the fireball formula doesn't work so it's back to using explosion yield but 0.15PSI this time (recalc here).
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https://media.**********.net/attach...=webp&quality=lossless&width=1586&height=1421
Apparently the link is dead but this should work (?) Omg nvm it doesn't I think LMAO
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So for some reason my images don't want to load on anything in this planet so you'll have to trust me (If you don't I'll just reset my PC and do whatever needs to be done I suppose) here but I did a rough calc on the box's measurements. You used 1.37 meters for Frisk's height so I also did just that, and the box's length would be roughly 1.24 meters with it's height being 0.39 meters. Assuming the width is the same as the length (Although could be smaller I suppose), the volume for the box would be 0.599664 m^3. I suppose the box's volume off pixel scaling could fix all that but A) The box's length and width still cannot contain the big bone if the big bone is really 2+ meters and B) I think the issue would be the complete opposite where you see the box actually isn't able to contain every single bone, as some of the bones are actually stacked outside the box itself. One of the bones are literally laying on the cover, and two of the bones are slightly above that. I swear I didn't argue that the soul was too big just to make this correction, I didn't look at the box well enough just noticed that it was really small.Going off the recalc, the volume of the big bone would only be 0.09748990323m^3
Going off your measurements (cause I'm lazy to do it myself
A 1m^3 box alone would fit the small bones and the bone easily on rough calcs. Wanna add that, even if this wasn't the case, the other numerous consistencies on the soul being small would still impede such a high end like 50cm.
Wait why is his core 3X again? Isn't his core actually the one consistent thing in size revolving around his attacks or am I misremembering? I wasn't exactly making a claim tbf I was just wondering why there would be 402 bones and one massive bone and still be contained within a box. I was simply giving food for thought on like "Okay what if the attacks aren't literally them doing actions but just their creation magic that creates massive hands and legs", which I think could be fair if the idea of FIGHT being completely canon and they actually fight in a Personal Domain. Asgore also has the giant hand thing which is way massive but his spear swings are the same size and don't change which is a fair point to bring up, but Asgore is also an odd exception where besides Sans, Undyne and Flowey/Asriel afaik (OH AND MAD DUMMY!!!!) he actually moves around in combat and is an exception besides Sans and Flowey/Asriel he actually affects the battle mechanics and moves to destroy the FIGHT button. Idk I could be wrong lol sorry if this is yap.
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Nevermind changed the imgpile link ig.
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,663
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Really good points. I agree.
Qurbonboev
He/Him- 2,718
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Him being cubical is entirely your headcannon. Fangamer items for Mettaton clearly depict him as rectangular shape, and his Overworld sprite clearly suggest rectangular shape, not cubic one.
You are using your powerscaling brain here, that translates things like "many times over" to "3x times bigger". Natural language doesn't work like it. Few inches can mean 5 inches or 4 inches(this objection is obviously redundant if you can't prove that Mettaton is cubical shape in the first place).
All of this presentation being fake doesn't mean that Mettaton didn't actually destroy wall. It's only 16 cm wall, it shouldn't be too much of a difficulty to deal with for a futuristic robot that meant for war against humans.
Also, creating fake wall(and demolishing real one) in very short timeframe between first observation of Frisk and their arrival to the Lab would be very difficult task. Alphys is brilliant scientist but she doesn't have any feats that suggests that she would be capable of doing so.
Will respond to other parts later, and will try to recalc things as they come by
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,184
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Next time
change static with vignette
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In the little time I have before going to work, what about Omega Flowey's size, btw?
Qurbonboev
He/Him- 2,718
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About SOUL size. I tried to measure it via different methods. So far my results are such:
I would appreciate if someone proposed other methods to do so (preferably when opponents is fully in battlebox). For the record, most consistent estimate is around 30 cm for now.
Addressing elephant in the room(Frisk heightmogging half of the audience in here with their 170.8 cm).
To have anchor for height estimation, we either:
1. Give some educated guess on how old Frisk is, and assume that they are average height for their age. First one is pretty difficult to do, and second one is at best neutral assumption to make.
2. Assume that Human Leader is at least adult(obviously true) and they have average height of adult (you can clearly see in the intro that they have comparable height to other adults here).
It's pretty obvious which method is more reliable. So does anyone have any arguments against second method, which explicitly doesn't rely on incredulity? I think this question is more important overall, so it should be solved first
I would appreciate if someone proposed other methods to do so (preferably when opponents is fully in battlebox). For the record, most consistent estimate is around 30 cm for now.
Addressing elephant in the room(Frisk heightmogging half of the audience in here with their 170.8 cm).
To have anchor for height estimation, we either:
1. Give some educated guess on how old Frisk is, and assume that they are average height for their age. First one is pretty difficult to do, and second one is at best neutral assumption to make.
2. Assume that Human Leader is at least adult(obviously true) and they have average height of adult (you can clearly see in the intro that they have comparable height to other adults here).
It's pretty obvious which method is more reliable. So does anyone have any arguments against second method, which explicitly doesn't rely on incredulity? I think this question is more important overall, so it should be solved first
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