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Super Beyond God removal

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Damage3245 said:
Sorry, are you saying you don't want to answer my question because you don't want to spell it out for me?
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Because I’m waiting for @CryoTheMayo considering they said the same thing as you

CryoTheMayo said:
Okay. So what does the visual of God behind Goku convey here to the reader? What is it meant to mean?
Click to expand...

But for now just as a reminder your “Show and not telling is a thing” very well does apply here.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Okay. So what does the visual of God behind Goku convey here to the reader? What is it meant to mean?
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Goku is growing stronger? Can you show me where this Goku fights a Tier 2 character or destroys a universe as this version? If the argument is that he should based on a single overlapping scan without a feat or proper scaling then the most I can really see is giving them a likely 2-C rating.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
After someone tried to make the DBZ Androids High 3-A we made a FAQ clarification:

Being powered by a Tier 2 or Tier 1 energy source doesn't make you thst tier unless you show you can wield it in infinite magnitudes. I don't see the evidence provided by Tilted as being sufficient to explain away the lack of clear Tier 2 scaling before the Black Arc.

But to restate, the form Saiyan Beyond God doesn't exist.
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I understand that (kinda funny 3A androids lol) but its not the ssjg has unlimited energy but the literal justification for low 2-C is while hes in ssg in the beerus arc and he absorbs this power into his base so its weird to me this wouldnt apply
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
Because I’m waiting for @CryoTheMayo considering they said the same thing as you
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My interpretation is that Toyotaro is conveying that Goku is at the level of Super Saiyan God in his Base form. Which would mean Base Goku vs Whis and Base Goku vs Base Freeza are on the level of a 2-C battle.

I do not personally recognise how that interpretation could be false or invalid. If others differ in view but cannot adequately address my interpretation then I don't see why an outright disagreement would be in order. At worst a neutral position because they acknowledge that Goku being God-level in Base is a reasonable claim but one they still do not agree with.

Qawsedf234 said:
Goku is growing stronger? Can you show me where this Goku fights a Tier 2 character or destroys a universe as this version? If the argument is that he should based on a single overlapping scan without a feat or proper scaling then the most I can really see is giving them a likely 2-C rating.
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In this scan we see Goku nearly hit Whis, a 2-C character, who he is sparring with to master his power. And the visual of God behind Goku in said scan would indicate that he is 'growing stronger' to the extent he 'resembles Super Saiyan God'. Who's power level is 2-C.

If that isn't really sufficient for you then a Likely 2-C rating would be better than just an outright disagreement.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
that isn't really sufficient for you then a Likely 2-C rating would be better than just an outright disagreement.
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I mean, I guess I'm fine with that.

Though we need to change the keys a bit. Since the current profile assumes he's 2-C in the U6 arc and not the Black Arc.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I mean, I guess I'm fine with that.

Though we need to change the keys a bit. Since the current profile assumes he's 2-C in the U6 arc and not the Black Arc.
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Alright, cool.

I did notice the issue with the keys a while back but didn't find the time to bring it up. We could just separate the keys into BoG, RoF, U6, Black but I feel doing BoG, RoF&U6, Black could also work fine. Despite Goku and Vegeta training for 3 years after RoF they don't have any meaningful scaling. The only issue I can think of is Goku gaining resistance to Time Stop and Greater Analytical Prediction, neither of which are contradicted by his display in RoF.

So it depends. Does gaining a resistance to Time Stop and better Analytical Prediction warrant an entirely separate key? If not then it should be fine to merge U6 with RoF.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
In that case I think it'd work fine to do it like:

Beerus Saga (4-B, 2-C as Super Saiyan God) -> RoF-U6 Saga (Likely 2-C, 2-C with God Forms) ->Black Saga (2-C, far higher with God Forms)
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Yeah I think that works. Just show the Whis picture of Goku for the likely 2-C rating imo.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Snip.
Click to expand...
Damage3245 said:
Snip.
Click to expand...
I want to mention something that if no one changes their opinion and Likely 2-C rating gets accepted, I think we should remove "Varies & Higher & far higher" ratings from manga characters to avoid bloating tier ratings part on profiles and they already extremely redundant since Ki Attacks already fall under Damage Boost.

This is how Manga Goku's tier tab written:

4-B, far higher with Super Saiyan forms, 2-C with Super Saiyan God, Varies, up to far higher with Kamehameha | 4-B, far higher with Super Saiyan forms, 2-C as a Super Saiyan Blue, Varies, up to far higher with Kamehameha | 2-C, higher with God Forms, even higher with Perfected Super Saiyan Blue, Varies, up to far higher with Kamehameha | 2-C, far higher with God Forms, even higher with Power-Stressed Form, far higher with Ultra Instinct -Sign- and Perfected Ultra Instinct, Varies, up to far higher with Kamehameha | 2-C, far higher with God Forms, Varies, up to far higher with Kamehameha | 2-C, far higher with God Forms, Varies, up to far higher with Kamehameha

And this is Manga Vegeta's tiering tab which is even worse:

4-B, far higher with Super Saiyan forms, Varies, up to far higher with charged attacks | 4-B, far higher with Super Saiyan forms, 2-C with Super Saiyan Blue, Varies, up to far higher with charged attacks | 4-B, far higher with Super Saiyan forms, 2-C with Super Saiyan Blue, Varies, up to far higher with charged attacks | 2-C, higher with Super Saiyan God, far higher with Super Saiyan Blue, Varies, up to far higher with charged attacks | 2-C, higher with Super Saiyan God & Blue, even higher with Completed Super Saiyan Blue, far higher with Super Saiyan Blue Evolution, Varies, up to far higher with charged attacks | 2-C, higher with God forms, Varies, up to far higher with charged attacks | 2-C, higher with God Forms, even higher with Ultra Ego, Varies, up to far higher with charged attacks

Transformations can and should stay as they are essential to ratings but clearing the profiles from this would be better in my opinion.
 
iicr they weren't removed they were just never added, we also don't have higher ratings with transformations for the anime
 
Just to keep track so far:

Agree with SBG removal: 6 mod votes (Qawsed, Damage, Lephry, DDM, Viett, Nierre)
Agree with 2-C RoF base: 2 mod votes (DDM, Viett)
Agree with likely 2-C RoF base: 3 mod votes (Qawsed, Damage, Nierre [though said they agreed for both Cryo's and Tilted's points, so could be either likely or solid 2-C])
 
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Ednaxel2 said:
Just to keep track so far:

Agree with SBG removal: 6 mod votes (Qawsed, Damage, Lephry, DDM, Viett, Nierre)
Agree with 2-C RoF base and the proposal overall: 3 mod votes (DDM, Viett, Nierre)
Disagree with 2-C RoF base: 2 mod votes (Qawsed, Damage)

Hopefully I got that down right
Click to expand...
I did not vote before, to be noted.

But I can confirm right now that yeh, that SBG business needs to go.
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Sorry I thought your earlier messages implied so
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With me, unless I give an explicit vote, never assume, because while it might look I'm supporting something, I may be researching something alongside it before giving a proper vote

But anyways, it's fine
 
CryoTheMayo said:
I believe we are past grace and we have sufficient votes. This can be applied and locked, right?
Click to expand...
The thread still have yet to be applied. Profiles are still lock.

I'm currently on phone so someone else should handling this

CryoTheMayo said:
In that case I think it'd work fine to do it like:

Beerus Saga (4-B, 2-C as Super Saiyan God) -> RoF-U6 Saga (Likely 2-C, 2-C with God Forms) ->Black Saga (2-C, far higher with God Forms)
Click to expand...
In RoF-U6 Sage it would be 4-C, likely 2-C, 2-C with God Forms
 
Vietthai96 said:
In RoF-U6 Sage it would be 4-C, likely 2-C, 2-C with God Forms
Click to expand...
I assume you meant "4-B, likely 2-C, 2-C with God Forms". Other staff seemed to approve of just "Likely 2-C, 2-C with God Forms"

So which are we meant to be applying? "Likely 2-C, 2-C" simplifies scaling and helps decrease the bloat in keys but if it really is a requirement to do "4-B, Likely 2-C, 2-C" then okay.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
I assume you meant "4-B, likely 2-C, 2-C with God Forms". Other staff seemed to approve of just "Likely 2-C, 2-C with God Forms"
Click to expand...
Likely 2-C is an additional rating, so a likely rating must follow a standard rating.

When the proposal is "Likely 2-C, 2-C with God Forms" the assumption based on the comment is "[4-B] likely 2-C, 2-C with God forms".
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Likely 2-C is an additional rating, so a likely rating must follow a standard rating.

When the proposal is "Likely 2-C, 2-C with God Forms" the assumption based on the comment is "[4-B] likely 2-C, 2-C with God forms".
Click to expand...
Okay well, I'm going to get started on editing Black, Freeza, Trunks and Vegeta's profiles. I'll need Goku's profile unlocked.
 
Trunks, Black, Freeza and Vegeta are done. Vegeta's profile took me longer than expected because I tried cleaning it up and fixing what redundancy and errors I noticed. I'll get started on Goku's page within an hour.
 
I have finished editing Goku's page. If possible I'd appreciate it if staff could check it for any errors, correct them then lock the page and this thread. Any verse supporters willing to check and correct any errors would also be appreciated.

Also, I noticed quite a few errors and questionable citations on Goku's page such as Imgur links that go to deleted posts or direct links to the Dragon Ball wiki (an unreliable source). I'm too tired to fix those issues myself but I figured I should just bring it to attention that Goku's page could use a general revision in quality. Vegeta's as well.
 
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