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Based on the arguments from both sides, I agree with the removal.
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Super Beyond God removal
- Thread starter TiltedFN
- Start date
- Status
Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,628
- 7,906
Are you saying that the op is creating the new form and damage is trying to get it removed? The fake form was put in place per the old crt (at least to my understanding) this thread is to remove it and everyone here agrees its not a real form
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I'm not talking about the supporters here overall when they have no correlations with what I'm talking about nor if they were involved in what I said about Honkai as a whole, I'm talking about one of the thread moderator here which agreed with the downgrade based on the fact that apparently whatever my argument is considered headcanon despite there being multiple scans (I'm just saying it'd be hypocritical in this situation imo) but like I said. My point is that there was never a single instance where this god-like power is used. That's literally it.
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??? What I meant with the form never existing at all, is that because there's never a single instance where they actually used this and amped themselves to 2-C
Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,628
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Yes we all agree this form never existed, Reason being because he absorbed the god ki into his base. SBG doesnt exist.
RoninSlayer200
He/Him- 616
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Small correction. Not Ki but the power of SSG. Baseku doesn't have God Ki in base.
Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,628
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Yeye mb just a habit
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Well, I did when this is only 2 pages long and at that time, I'm convinced more with Damage then I read page 3 in which I voted cause you know, I still don't see it when this would be a massive tier jump especially from Tier 4 to 2-C, I mean I don't have a problem with it being higher than Tier 4; Let's say Tier 3, but yeah I just don't see it for 2-C IMO
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I would say something but i'll save it for the server chat when you reopen it again (Every single Honkai supporter is cooking you rn there)
So basically, you're agreeing with the removal of Saiyan Beyond God???
Btw we're in 2026 now. Practically a whole new wiki. This isn't 2020 where claiming outlier is the easy way ticket out of sliming Dragon Ball scaling like it did with Moon level Roshi. Prove its an outlier.
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I don't think you fully understand the thread. I'm not claiming that 2-C ratings don't exist for the Dragon Ball Super manga.
And it's arbitrary to say "The verse can be Tier 4 or 3". Why would it only be that high and not higher if the evidence is there for it?
- 3,555
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- Thread starter
- #133
There is no Tier 3 my guy. It's 2-C since Goku's base form adapted to God level which is shown in all continuities, and the promo RoF manga Toyotaro did. God level would be 2-C here.
Saqphire
She/Her- 1,574
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Wait, could this source be it? If anything, the RoF artbook was translated by someone so if anyone could get in touch with the translator and find the raws, that could work ig?
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No bro
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We already brought that up. There are seemingly no raws for it and I doubt the translator is going to respond to requests for it. Tilted has already asked for the raws for it.
- 3,555
- 5,147
- Thread starter
- #137
Went over that already. That isn't the source. They are the ones who posted it in the first place with no Raws being present across the entire internet, nor any official release anywhere. Its 100 percent fake.
Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,628
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I think it was brought up earlier correct me if im wrong though
Saqphire
She/Her- 1,574
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Alright then. Yeah that scan would be deemed as fake until proven otherwise then.
Yeah no I agree with the OP.
That form doesn't exist.
That form doesn't exist.
- 5,388
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Yeah but we know 2-C is for the later key if anything, and from the multiplier alone on the second key, I still don't see why would like; The Battle of Gods key and the Resurrection of F key just straight up be 2-C atm, I mean sure separating it works where the base form would be Tier 4 and the latter form would be 2-C. Like if there's any upgrades, it would just be that the Tier 4 gets replaced to Tier 3 or something cause of the multipliers
Also like I thought people agreed with this form just never existing at all..? So like I'm confused here when we're at the same page with this form just never existing (?)
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They’d be 2-C for literally absorbing the power into Base.
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This never happened though? Like, I'm pretty sure the old thread's main point is that the power that was being absorbed here is not the same power that'd make them instantly jump to 2-C, that's why Tier 4 is still here as of now
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I've never agreed with Saiyan Beyond God being a thing since the Manga never states the form is real. My only contention was their base forms being 2-C pre-Black Arc. If your argument is that the form is real then I don't agree with you.
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The main debunk was claiming Goku and Vegeta can use the power of Super Saiyan God without transforming into the form itself, (saiyan beyond god) which was entirely dependent on a fake scan (and a movie scan on top of that which is contradicted by the movies where Goku literally absorbs SSG into base and stacks the power with SSJ without going Blue)
Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,628
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If the form isnt real then goku did absorb that power into his base form which is 2-C levels of power unless we just wanna make 2 different keys (pre and post god power absorbsion)
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I specified in my original thread that I never believed it was a proper "form". I cited Whis' statement for how many transformations Goku has access to.
I believe we're on the same page about their pre-Black base forms not having enough evidence to be 2-C.
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Yeah this is what I was trying to say either with the form just never existing at all and how the base form wouldn't be 2-C, thanks for explaining this cause a lot of people were misunderstanding what I meant ^^
Anyways I feel like my vote would just be the same as this to not derail since I'm largely uninterested with DB in particular (just with some stuff though that I'm interested in)
- 11,359
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You’re negative tracking dude. The entire point of this CRT is to REMOVE saiyan beyond god in order to restore 2-C Base forms. You agreeing to saying Saiyan Beyond God never existing literally means you agree with the return of 2-C because the outcome would literally mean Goku absorbed SSG into base like every single other version of this story.
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Sounds good to me, considering that Goku is capable of using form God in his Ssj3 to defeat Trunks, so who's to say he wouldn't be able to do the same thing in his base form.
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??? Two things could literally be true at the same time; The form never existing and that their base forms aren't 2-C, this is like the sole reason why this thread even had 2 administrator disapprovals
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After someone tried to make the DBZ Androids High 3-A we made a FAQ clarification:
Being powered by a Tier 2 or Tier 1 energy source doesn't make you thst tier unless you show you can wield it in infinite magnitudes. I don't see the evidence provided by Tilted as being sufficient to explain away the lack of clear Tier 2 scaling before the Black Arc.
But to restate, the form Saiyan Beyond God doesn't exist.
You kept arguing this point over three~ pages though. So to some degree you think them accessing a portion of SSG as a distinct power up is a valid explanation when it's not supported in the Manga.
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Even if that were dropped entirely though, I still have my point about Goku never being shown to absorb SSG's power into his base form in the manga.
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You arguing doesn't work when a Super mod is disagreeing with Damage while another Super Mod and a thread mod agrees with the CRT.
Saiyan Beyond God form not existing means Goku literally absorbs the power into Base like EVERY SINGLE version of this story
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Well as addressed in the OP. Goku is depicted in Toyotaro's promotional manga for Resurrection 'F' as attacking with the visual of Super Saiyan God behind him. If Beyond God doesn't exist. What is Toyotaro conveying here? As I and others have brought up multiple times. Toriyama's plot (as shown in the BoG Movie and the anime adaptation) is that Goku adapts to the power of God and grows stronger in response to it.
This plotline is consistent across all versions. Goku's power increases from the experience of being a Super Saiyan God. And this is visualised by Toyotaro in the promo manga as Goku having the image of God behind him. As already brought up in the OP, it is also clearly stated Toyotaro is adhering to Toriyama's plot basis with the manga's storyline and he contributed very little in Volume 1, such a drastic change as Goku not adapting to God's power would be worthy of mention.
So in short, without evidence of Beyond God even existing. The premise falls apart. That manga visual simply refers to what the Movie and Anime already shown. That Goku has grown to God-levels in his Base form.
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He grew in strength, but he doesn't show infinite magnitude of strength until the Black Arc where they all get SSG/SSB chain scaling. With the anime there's direct showings of Goku immediately getting to Tier 2 levels after SSG when he battles Beerus and other SSG people like Vegeta being tremendously above DBZ power cast members. That degree of superiority isn't shown in the manga in my view.
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Okay. So what does the visual of God behind Goku convey here to the reader? What is it meant to mean?
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Just so you know if you believe in your own words then this also applies here
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Sorry, are you saying you don't want to answer my question because you don't want to spell it out for me?
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