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@TiltedFN Have you tried sending the CRT to @Vietthai96
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Super Beyond God removal
- Thread starter TiltedFN
- Start date
- Status
- 3,555
- 5,147
- Thread starter
- #82
I need to point out, I think this scan can't be used. I have looked literally everywhere and I can't find the Raws. We don't know if it's accurately translated, and this isn't on any official V-Jump page that I could find. How can we even verify this when we don't even have a source for it at all?
Like legit, I can't find this "art book" anywhere online. The only reference I got was a tweet made back in 2015. We don't know where this actually comes from.
What official release? It shouldn't be useable if we can't actually confirm what it says. Especially since absolutely no promo material backs up what this is saying.
This is a fan translated scan that can't actually be confirmed to even exist.
I say this can't be used. Like seriously, you can't find this anywhere.
Like legit, I can't find this "art book" anywhere online. The only reference I got was a tweet made back in 2015. We don't know where this actually comes from.
What official release? It shouldn't be useable if we can't actually confirm what it says. Especially since absolutely no promo material backs up what this is saying.
This is a fan translated scan that can't actually be confirmed to even exist.
I say this can't be used. Like seriously, you can't find this anywhere.
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That is a valid issue to raise, checking the original raw text is always important. I'll reach out to some knowledgeable people and see if they can track it down. Though I disagree with the assertion that my argument solely hinges on that scan. My main argument is that they're two different continuities with differences between them, so they can be rated differently each according to their own evidence.
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- Thread starter
- #84
Good luck. It's legit nowhere.
I mean Damage, without this scan, the argument is gone dude.
Without it, the concept of Saiyan Beyond God is just completely non existent, so our argument will still be stronger since the RoF promotional manga legit shows us Goku fighting at the level of a God in base.
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I think the artbook is supposed to be this oneI need to point out, I think this scan can't be used. I have looked literally everywhere and I can't find the Raws. We don't know if it's accurately translated, and this isn't on any official V-Jump page that I could find. How can we even verify this when we don't even have a source for it at all?
Like legit, I can't find this "art book" anywhere online. The only reference I got was a tweet made back in 2015. We don't know where this actually comes from.
What official release? It shouldn't be useable if we can't actually confirm what it says. Especially since absolutely no promo material backs up what this is saying.
This is a fan translated scan that can't actually be confirmed to even exist.
I say this can't be used. Like seriously, you can't find this anywhere.
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I looked through that and it doesn't have the scan in question. Nor does it have the text that the translation claims is present. So it's either in a different one or fake.
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- Thread starter
- #87
I have no idea. It looks completely different. I came across that one as well.
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Uses the same drawings as the "pamphlet", but notice how the pamphlet mentions the typeset was edited by someone when doing the translation.
The entire pamphlet is just that, an edited image entirely.
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- Thread starter
- #89
Yeah but the translation which is used for the scan Damage has is just non existent. Doesn't even remotely resemble what's on the former.
So either the other one is fake or it's just not the same one.
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Yeah the SBG scan likely isn't legit. The fact that this specific version pretty much ONLY pops up in powerscaling contexts is also incredibly suspicious.
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Oh, the original source of the pamphlet is this site
People just ran with it without verifying properly, would be my guess. Specially with people seeking to report stuff on hype.
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- Thread starter
- #93
Yeah legit one tweet from some account over 10 years ago.
This doesn't exist anywhere else across the internet.
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Yeah. That's confusing. It mentions that it is "translated by DarkDenizen" but translated from what? If the description below them isn't anywhere in the original mini-artbook then I am fine with dismissing the page since there are no raws to check against.
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Timeframe seems to coincide too, being reported 4 days after Volume "F" got published.
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- Thread starter
- #96
Well if we agree this can't be used, then that's basically it for Saiyan Beyond God existing. With the removal of the scan, here's what happens:
Official statements of Toyotaro following Toriyama's narrative which includes Goku breaking his limits to get to the level of a God in base form.
Anime, movie, and manga evidence of this being the case without SBG being a possible counter argument you could make to this scan.
So even without using the BoG movie for whatever reason, Toyotaro depicts Goku reaching the power of a God in his base form clear as day.
I really don't see how this is debatable anymore.
- There is currently no proof that Saiyans gain the actual God Power of Super Saiyan God without changing form like the scan claims.
- There is no longer any proof (which includes statements) that these 'God-like Saiyans' turn Blue if they use this state along with Super Saiyan.
- The rhetoric of them being able to turn this state on and off holds no weight anymore either.
- The picture below can't coincide with Saiyan Beyond God anymore.
Official statements of Toyotaro following Toriyama's narrative which includes Goku breaking his limits to get to the level of a God in base form.
Anime, movie, and manga evidence of this being the case without SBG being a possible counter argument you could make to this scan.
So even without using the BoG movie for whatever reason, Toyotaro depicts Goku reaching the power of a God in his base form clear as day.
I really don't see how this is debatable anymore.
StarShooter80
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I'll try to ask other communities on where the pamphlet translation originated from but other than that it really can't be found currently, I'm still struggling to find any guide called "Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection F - F File" which is what the booklet is called in the scan.
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There is still the matter of Vegeta using Super Saiyan God's aura in the manga. You stated that:
But just because something "could" be wrong doesn't mean they definitely made a mistake. Tellingly Vegeta also went straight into Super Saiyan Blue in that state to overpower Goku. He didn't shift up to regular Super Saiyan. There is a plausible explanation for it under my interpretation which is that Vegeta and Goku was already using Super Saiyan God's power in their sparring and activating Super Saiyan would mean activating Super Saiyan Blue.
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- Thread starter
- #99
Well Damage, I dont know how to tell you this, but this doesn't mean anything anymore since Saiyan Beyond God isn't a thing.
There have been multiple color screwups in the manga, and Goku didn't have a red aura in the movie, nor did Vegeta.
I should also mentioned that since you're still clinging to this for whatever reason, it goes against Whis training entirely. They can't transform during his sessions, that goes against it. We have never see Goku with a red aura either.
Color mistake or whatever, it holds no weight anymore.
So what if Vegeta went straight into Blue?
He wanted to use Blue so he got Blue, simple as that.
Damage, that is pure speculation.
Are you seriously still arguing they can use literal God power without changing appearance still?
There is no statement that they can do that. Its headcanon.
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Question. What's the point of Vegeta going God here if he can use Super Saiyan God without transforming? Kinda seems counterintuitive to transform if the whole point of Vegeta using God here is to conserve energy.
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- Thread starter
- #102
There is no point. There's also no explanation of why it disappeared in the manga in general either.
But since we know for a fact SBG isn't real, that's the explanation.
U6 was the first time it was brought back since BoG as well. So he never used it before this Post BoG. Or in Base.
But since we know for a fact SBG isn't real, that's the explanation.
U6 was the first time it was brought back since BoG as well. So he never used it before this Post BoG. Or in Base.
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I'm not the writer of the manga. I can't answer questions on their behalf. While it is speculation on my part, the conclusion that I would personally draw is that either a) It's better for Vegeta to fight as a full Super Saiyan God instead of just tapping into the power. Like how Goku tapping into Ultra Instinct in his lower forms is still worse than him using full Ultra Instinct, or b) The writers decided it would be better visually to have the characters fight in the full transformation as it is lot clearer visually to the viewer what is happening.
Anyone can have their own interpretation on it, but this is what seems reasonable to me.
It's not like everything is always explained in the manga, or always makes perfectly logical sense... Otherwise we'd never end up with series that have plot holes, or inconsistent power levels which Dragon Ball is infamous for.
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I'm sorry but did you just pull out a random head canon explanation for this alleged state by saying it's now WEAKER for him to be using Super Saiyan God with no red hair?
?????
This doesn't work. If you're claiming they can use God without transforming then you can't just argue this when exists dude.
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My argument remains the same... You believe that movie-exclusive content should be used to scale the manga version of Goku to 2-C. I do not see enough evidence to suggest that Goku is intended to scale to 2-C in his base form at that stage of the manga. That's the core issue here.
If you want to call in additional staff to evaluate it, you can do so of course. It's probably worth calling @Qawsedf234 again to go through the thread and see if his position has changed so I'll tag Qaws.
You literally asked me to provide an explanation. What do you want from me? I clarified that I was speculating because the authors don't provide us with behind-the-scenes details on why they write the series the way that they do.
I forgot that creators aren't allowed to change their mind about anything as the series goes on...
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- Thread starter
- #107
This legit tells you everything you need to know lol.
Toyo straight up depicts Goku at the level of a God in Base.
This is in the literal Promo RoF manga.
Which remains consistent with every continuity and author intent.
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I'm inclined to agree more with the OP and Cryo's points.
StarShooter80
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Vegeta's base aura having a redish outline could just be due to the background of the area they're fighting in. We see this a few other times in other instances too.
Cabba's aura being a lighter shade of yellow with white being more dominant to match the sun backdrop behind him, and Vegeta's aura being a royal blue to match with the background of the Uni6 tournament, both being opposed to the more usual pure yellow aura:
There is no clear implication that Goku and Vegeta are able to use the power of the SSG transformation in base straight up like how we have it currently, that was only supported by the pamphlet statement that we just now disregarded. Meanwhile the very films and plot outlines that the original manga's story was based off of, does suggest that Goku's base normally just reached the heights of ssg in base. That just seems like the more concrete interpretation to go off of
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Yeah, SBG need to go
RoninSlayer200
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Vegeta's aura being red doesn't mean much when base form Aura's isn't 100% consistent in gray color.
Also UI argument doesn't make sense either because SSG gives nothing more than just God Ki and extremely high multiplier compared to UI's instinctive action you can use with Saiyan forms which makes lesser forms stronger and more effective than normally. SSG gives nothing of that.
Like what's the point of Vegeta some weird base-SSG form as it it will give him some advantage when he can just tap into full SSG form? Just for saving more energy? But since when SSG stated to drain much stamina like SSJ3?
Also UI argument doesn't make sense either because SSG gives nothing more than just God Ki and extremely high multiplier compared to UI's instinctive action you can use with Saiyan forms which makes lesser forms stronger and more effective than normally. SSG gives nothing of that.
Like what's the point of Vegeta some weird base-SSG form as it it will give him some advantage when he can just tap into full SSG form? Just for saving more energy? But since when SSG stated to drain much stamina like SSJ3?
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An actual explanation that doesn't sound like you doing this
Can you prove Toyotaro or Toriyama changed their minds? Actually, Vegeta kept taunting Goku Black by saying he's getting his ass kicked by an inferior form to both Rose and Blue. You'd think him kicking Goku Black's ass in base is a bigger kick to the nuts, right?
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Some visually non-distinct never named never explained transformation that lets Goku and Vegeta drastically increase their power to God form levels creates an unreasonable untenable precedent on literally all base form scaling due to us having no idea if this mystery ghost form is being used or not.
To be clear, this is a mechanic/transformation with no in universe explanation, name, or any reference to it even existing.
It is quite literally a ghost form that creates an unnecessary nonsensical scaling complication.
UI being used in conjunction with base and Super Saiyan forms is an explained established mechanism of the power system. It is not remotely comparable to the glue and popsicle stick mish-mash of an arguement that is being presented.
I do not say this lightly, it ever being accepted is a damning indictment of how this site handles this verse.
Neutral fra
To be clear, this is a mechanic/transformation with no in universe explanation, name, or any reference to it even existing.
It is quite literally a ghost form that creates an unnecessary nonsensical scaling complication.
UI being used in conjunction with base and Super Saiyan forms is an explained established mechanism of the power system. It is not remotely comparable to the glue and popsicle stick mish-mash of an arguement that is being presented.
I do not say this lightly, it ever being accepted is a damning indictment of how this site handles this verse.
Neutral fra
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I feel like Damage makes more sense to me but it's whatever I guess
Mbpoops
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Son
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This why you're bricked on Honkai btw.
Makes sense to me. Atp is there any other counterarguments?
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Agree with the thread. That scan should’ve been fact checked ages ago but I’m glad it was called out on.
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When the opposing side doesn't even know anything and kept saying how it's a headcanon for Honkai but here they tried to claim a form of Goku that doesn't even exist, lmao? Yeah sure pick your poison and which one is which, Damage makes sense to me because this form of Goku doesn't even exist in the first place, is it that hard to understand? Plus 2-C in itself would be a massive outlier here regardless
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This has the same merit as you saying every opposition against your Goku Black Acausality Type 1 removal has no idea what they're talking about btw.
Also outlier to what? What are we back in 2020?
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Don't insult the other side by claiming they don't know anything.
I think that Tilted and many of the other fans here are quite knowledgeable on Dragon Ball; the issue is a matter of interpretation mostly for some of it. Not everyone is always going to be on the same page for everything.
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