Hazbin Hotel LS Revision

[ShionAH]

Hopefully this goes well, it won't.

Spoiler: Ignore this, rejected

Emily was able to rescue and take Alastor out of Shok.wavs grip.

In this scene his arm is fine despite the blood we see so she didn't just rip it off.

BUT as @Eden_Warlock99 may argue...

Even later on despite his arm looking more damaged, his fingers and arm are still intact. Implying again she didn't just rip it off.

Yeah Emily level characters would be Class M

After some arguments we decided to stop the circular problems Emily would only scale to the half of Class M since it was a group effort, Still Class M

Spoiler: Class G...

Alastor's single tentacle is Class G right now.

Lucifer is directly stated to be stronger than Alastor many times, possess a divine power that trumps over that of demons meaning his magic would be above Alastor's own magic that scales to this value. And come on, like... it's Lucifer. He is leagues above Al let alone a casual feat one of his tentacles could achieve. Adam upscales from this because he directly overpowered Lucifer in a grappling contest. It's also shown several times Angels have UES that makes their magic and power directly scale their physicals and accepted as such.

After further argumens its agreed Top Tiers will scale to At least Class M likely Class G

---

Agree: 11 (@ShionAH, @StoneKillerz12, @OmenISTIRED, @Aolphl, @Anonymous_Learner, @OiEuSouDuvi, @Qurbonboev, @The_Renegade_Slugger [Likely for Lucifer], @AbaddonTheDisappointment, @LephyrTheRevanchist, @Ultimate-Rex1)
Disagree: 1 (@DaReaperMan)
Neutral: 1 (@Eden_Warlock99)

 

[StoneKillerz12]

Yeah, this seems fine. I always thought not scaling anyone, not even Lucifer to Alastor's Class G feat was really, really strange.

 

[Aolphl]

That's works

 

[OmenISTIRED]

Agree

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Lucifer's the strongest in hell so him being above Al is a given, Adam can toss snake Lucifer and is all around superior to Al so, despite being tossed by the Tentacle, he should scale and no be flipping class k. I can agree with that
Neutral for Class M for everyone else, Full Power Alastor should 100% be class M since he's offically "all-powerful" (in the context of comparing him to most of the cast) and the strongest sinner in hell with a soul like no other

 

[DaReaperMan]

Adam cannot be Class G, because he was that tier, his ass wouldn't be thrown around like a sack of potatoes in that fight, would he?

 

[ShionAH]

Adam never actually tried to escape the grasp because he was thrown before he could, nor was he taking it serious. We see what he pulled against Lu when he was actually pissed. I am not gonna waste my time arguing because Ik it will be a back and forth forever so I'll just put you on disagree chum

 

[DaReaperMan]

Adam never actually tried to escape the grasp because he was thrown before he could, nor was he taking it serious. We see what he pulled against Lu when he was actually pissed. I am not gonna waste my time arguing because Ik it will be a back and forth forever so I'll just put you on disagree chum

Oh, like Alastor was super serious himself.

Both characters were casual. If you want to say Alastor was not casual, why was he not dodging with shadows which he does damn near constantly in a weaker key we know he takes fights serious in for the most part?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Disagree with the Shok.wav scaling, Emily doesn't even move Shok.wav's jaw, she just pulls Alastor out. Think of it like pulling a piece of paper from under an Elephant's foot, it's going to rip but you'll be able to pull it out, and doing so doesn't at all mean you can lift more than an Elephant lol.

The point about his arm looking intact would work, if we weren't talking about a guy with regen that can heal stab wounds in seconds.
The whole thing also creates the circular scaling that is Emily > Shok.wav > Alastor > Vox > Emily

Neutral on Class G Adam/Lu, though will say Lu does get tossed around by Sinners a lot, but then again it could just be his limitation at play there.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Adam cannot be Class G, because he was that tier, his ass wouldn't be thrown around like a sack of potatoes in that fight, would he?

I 100% agree he probably can't straight scale to it since he was tossed around but, ain't it possible for him to downscale (Al's tentacles are rather close to baseline)?
As ShionAH said, if he was that much inferior to it, as (seeming) accepted on this wiki, his supposedly class K ass would've been easily crushed to death and ripped apart

 

[DaReaperMan]

I 100% agree he probably can't straight scale to it since he was tossed around but, ain't it possible for him to downscale (Al's tentacles are rather close to baseline)?
As ShionAH said, if he was that much inferior to it, as (seeming) accepted on this wiki, his supposedly class K ass would've been easily crushed to death and ripped apart

AL, just say his tensile strength is sufficient that a Class G with someone who can't really properly harm him(Remember, the difference is literally Alastor<<Adam<Lucifer).

Like, it clearly DID try to crush him, that's why he makes a funny face when grabbed, but it doesn't crush even though he can't break out. Tensile Strength is great for not getting torn apart, y'know?

 

[ShionAH]

it's going to rip but you'll be able to pull it out

It didn't rip.

The point about his arm looking intact would work

Which would be a fair point if we didn't see his arm being completely fine.

Emily > Shok.wav > Alastor > Vox > Emily

No because Alastor was already exhausted from his fights, PLUS Vox grappled Emily with his wires which means they just have better LS than he does.

then again it could just be his limitation at play there.

For sure.

 

[StoneKillerz12]

Oh right uh, shameless self plug since this thread is the only one getting the attention.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/hazbin-hotel-minor-downgrade-not-so-bright-after-all.188466/

 

[DaReaperMan]

If you'll excuse me, I'm going to give Shok.wav, Emily, and Alastor all possibly Blood Manipulation for making blood appear from the ether.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

AL, just say his tensile strength is sufficient that a Class G with someone who can't really properly harm him(Remember, the difference is literally Alastor<<Adam<Lucifer).

Like, it clearly DID try to crush him, that's why he makes a funny face when grabbed, but it doesn't crush even though he can't break out. Tensile Strength is great for not getting torn apart, y'know?

that's fair, I forgot to account for Tensile strength which, in this case of Al vs. Adam, would be like us trying to a steel ball with our bare hands.

Neutral on Class M Adam/Lu, though will say Lu does get tossed around by Sinners a lot, but then again it could just be his limitation at play there.

I think it's the limitation as, if he really tried to resist them, he could and if we trying using him getting tossed by sinners as an anti-feat, he wouldn't even be class K since they all scale to it and overpower him
What do you think of Class M Full power Alastor and Adam being class M off him?

 

[ShionAH]

There is no way we are acting like Lucifer couldn’t resist NOT because of his limitations but because he is weak. Are yall seriously thinking that even for a moment? Don’t even “think” of the possiblities. Its just wrong.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Which would be a fair point if we didn't see his arm being completely fine.

"Completely fine." The gigantic rip on his coat and splash of blood sure suggest otherwise.

Like I can't emphasize this enough, Shok.waw's jaw doesn't move, an, inch.

No because Alastor was already exhausted from his fights, PLUS Vox grappled Emily with his wires which means they just have better LS than he does.

BASE Alastor broke out of the wires that restrained Emily, twice even.

But DEMON FORM Alastor couldn't move Shok.wav's jaw at all.

What do you think of Class M Full power Alastor and Adam being class M off him?

Tbh I'm not sure if Full Power Alastor is different physically speaking from his Weakened version, the latter of which couldn't move Shok.wav soooo

 

[ShionAH]

"Completely fine." The gigantic rip on his coat and splash of blood sure suggest otherwise.

Eden. His ENTIRE arm was in the jaw, if it was ripped off then Al wouldn’t have an hand anymore.

BASE Alastor broke out of the wires that restrained Emily, twice even.

He was already injured from his fight with Vox, I also wanna mention ITS EMILY!! She can barely utilize her powers like Charlie so its entirely possible she just got that will when she had to save a “friend.”

I cannot stress this enough, EMILY DIRECTLY SCALING TO SHOK.VAWS LS SHOULD BE ENOUGH FOR THEM TO SCALE RELATIVE TO IT AT THE VERY LEAST

Not stay at fricking Class K

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Tbh I'm not sure if Full Power Alastor is different physically speaking from his Weakened version, the latter of which couldn't move Shok.wav soooo

He's repeatedly stated to be lacking in power with him even lost his class G lifting strength with his tentacles cuz of how much he was nerfed so it'd be very silly if Shok.wav had greater LS than the all 4 God tiers

 

[DaReaperMan]

He's repeatedly stated to be lacking in power with him even lost his class G lifting strength with his tentacles cuz of how much he was nerfed so it'd be very silly if Shok.wav had greater LS than the all 4 God tiers

It's a giant shark. It's also like, 8-B post-revisions. just 5-B the damn thing lmfao

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

It's a giant shark.

Al's an undead deer demon, Lucifer's the devil, Adam's an archangel, Charlie's the daughter of the devil and proves it while enraged.
They deserve at least class M

 

[DaReaperMan]

Al's an undead deer demon, Lucifer's the devil, Adam's an archangel, Charlie's the daughter of the devil and proves it while enraged.
They deserve at least class M

Let's rephrase this:

Alastor is a Deer Demon who sold his soul for power and half-crashes out just because he doesn't have the biggest **** in the whole wide world
Lucifer is an Angel LITERALLY ******* CURSED to be fodder and has IQ so terrible that he walks onto a giant loony toons style X and is surprised when he's captured.
Adam is a straight up pig who complains about being hurt when trying to kill somoene
And Charlie does so ******* little that she needs WoG to come in and save her from Unknown hell in base.

Silly is the name of the game here.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

I agree with the scaling of Alastor and Emily (and those close to them) to Class M. I agree with Reaper's alternative that Adam shouldn't fully scale to the lifting strength of Alastor's tentacles, since although he resists being crushed, he couldn't oppose their force.

Edit: Regarding Lucifer, I agree as well, just to be clear.

 

[Steve1775]

Hazbin hotel is a funny verse

 

[Qurbonboev]

AFAIK to crush someone you need both superior LS and relative AP. With only superior LS you can only restrain, choke or pin enemy down.
Currently Adam and Alastor are tiers apart, so failure of Alastor to crush Adam would be explained as consequences of vast power level difference, not Adam having relative LS. But if they were became relative to each other in AP, it would necessitate giving Adam relative LS

 

[ShionAH]

My point is that Al didn’t even try to restrain him, later on its clear he had no shot against Adam

I am more interested in Lucifer who should be above it just through being Lucifer and the WoG statement

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

My point is that Al didn’t even try to restrain him

Alastor's a cocky, bloody thirsty man, he's never tried restraining anyone and he genuinely thinks he superior to everyone and that's why my goat nearly got cut in half

later on its clear he had no shot against Adam

hence the failed crushing.
As Qurbonboev said, if they were relative in strength and Alastor failed to crush him, he'd get class G. However, they aren't. they're multiple tiers apart.

 

[ShionAH]

Alastor's a cocky, bloody thirsty man, he's never tried restraining anyone and he genuinely thinks he superior to everyone

This doesn’t matter, if he could have just grabbed Adam and slowly bring him to a Angelic Weapon or just try to use his Soul Manipulation after restraining him then he would have done so but he didn’t

As Qurbonboev said, if they were relative in strength and Alastor failed to crush him, he'd get class G. However, they aren't. they're multiple tiers apart.

You are correct, this is only for supporting evidence for now. If in the future Al gets any downscaling (he shouldn’t) it would be a direct scale. I am more interested in the Lucifer argument

 

[Qurbonboev]

I am more interested in Lucifer who should be above it just through being Lucifer and the WoG statement

Agree with Lucifer upscaling from Alastor in LS.

To avoid circular scaling (Emily > Shok.wav > Alastor > Vox > Emily) we can just scale Alastor and Emily to 1/2 of Shok.wav(since they both were contributing to saving Alastor from the jaws). Scaling would be Shok.wav > Alastor > Vox > Emily. Shok.wav is stronger, but still relative, so strength of two opponents would be enough to surmount him

 

[ShionAH]

we can just scale Alastor and Emily to 1/2 of Shok.wav

thats a good point, do you think FP Al would scale directly at this value?

 

[Qurbonboev]

thats a good point, do you think FP Al would scale directly at this value?

Weakened form should upscale from 1/2 value(is stronger than Emily and should contribute more), so scaling much stronger directly at this value should be fine

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

This doesn’t matter, if he could have just grabbed Adam and slowly bring him to a Angelic Weapon or just try to use his Soul Manipulation after restraining him then he would have done so but he didn’t

Al didn't use like half of his abilities in that fight and he ddin't use angelic weapons at all despite having them.
He was called out for being overconfident by Rosie and paid the price for it

 

[ShionAH]

he ddin't use angelic weapons at all despite having them.

he had them on his shield, which Adam broke. he didn’t have the time to get them back afterwards.

 

[DaReaperMan]

he had them on his shield, which Adam broke. he didn’t have the time to get them back afterwards.

He has kilometers of range. Bro can just grab it with a shadow lol

 

[ShionAH]

I don’t think its a good idea to focus on something else when you are fighting an Archangel. One mistake and you are done. Not smart at all.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don’t think its a good idea to focus on something else when you are fighting an Archangel. One mistake and you are done. Not smart at all.

He can both set up his radio and prepare for a broadcast, he can multi-task a bit, I feel.

 

[ShionAH]

Not when he is fighting Adam. Its literally life or death where one mistake means he dies.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

he had them on his shield, which Adam broke. he didn’t have the time to get them back afterwards.

Sure, he was so busy standing still and having an aura off with Adam to get his weapons with his kilometers worth of range

I don’t think its a good idea to focus on something else when you are fighting an Archangel. One mistake and you are done. Not smart at all.

Not when he is fighting Adam. Its literally life or death where one mistake means he dies.

Al was literally throwing one-liners, aura farming, laughing, and insulting Adam mid fight, there's no possible way you can look at his fight with Adam and his fight with 100% Vox (and his fight with the vees to an extent) and seriously thinking he was fighting seriously. or that he went into this thinking it was life or death
he even did this mid-fight while Adam was flying right at him with a Regen negation weapon

If he wanted to grab angelic weapons with his kilometers of range, he would've. Alastor just bought in on his own hype and got oneshot.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

he had them on his shield, which Adam broke. he didn’t have the time to get them back afterwards.

Also, Al can teleport, he can literally get them whenever he wants and fight adam

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Any general consensus here cause I can see that things were being argued past the OP for specific values?