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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

Well, setting aside the universe-level meteors…

This month’s chapter of The Lost Canvas was quite interesting. Moreover, Shiori mentioned that this would be the final chapter of The Lost Canvas, so it could be considered the true ending of this story.


I hope Shiori continues working on other Saint Seiya projects, since her writing and expansion of the lore have always been among the most interesting in the franchise.

This chapter focuses on Partita, and we see that she and Kairos have a battle on a spiritual or mental plane, where Partita is completely defeated by Kairos, making it clear that she is not at the level of a Gold Saint—or at least not a Gold Saint like Shaka, Ilias, Saga, Shion (Pope), Cain, Regulus, etc. After all, she is only a servant of Athena, and as we saw in Saintia Sho, the Gold Saints are on a completely different level compared to the servants of the gods on Olympus, to the point that Deathmask was unmatched by them.

It also seems that Shiori is truly aware of some of the debates surrounding Partita, because in this chapter she herself apologizes to Athena for what she did to her Pegasus when she discovers that Youma is Kairos. This is probably a reference to how fans have always pointed out how foolish it was for Partita to have a child far from the Sanctuary and with a man she barely knew. If Pegasus was so important to Athena, she could have sought a random man from the Sanctuary (Athena’s territory) to be the father.

However, Partita pretending to be on Kairos' side and agreeing to her plan was really clever of her, and now we know that her goal was to pretend to be on Kairos' side and wait for the moment to escape to the Sanctuary with Tenma. Although she could have tried to find a way to communicate with Sage or someone else from the Sanctuary to ask for help.

And I have to say, Kairos is genuinely entertaining. He is a very charismatic villain who is essentially an evil man seeking revenge against the gods of Olympus for doing nothing to help him. At least this chapter makes it clear that he truly seemed to care about his family. We can see that he had included them in his plans. He wanted revenge against the gods, and once his plans were complete, he intended to live happily with his family. That's why he was so enraged when he realized that Partita had escaped.

This image of Kairos having tea with his family is simply amazing.
AlfKu6y.jpeg


However, we can also see that his plans make no real sense and are, in a way, ridiculous. He never stood a chance against Olympus. Pegasus has never truly been a rival for the Great Gods; at best, he is just someone capable of causing them some trouble, but he has never been able to defeat any god. Even Seiya, the Pegasus whom Kairos wanted Tenma to become, never defeated a Great God in a proper battle nor surpassed one (even Ikki is stronger than him). His greatest feat was defeating a god like Thanatos, who only lost because he was arrogant and underestimated his opponent, and he is probably not even truly dead. Seiya never defeated Poseidon, nor did he defeat Hades. On the contrary, he ended up in a wheelchair and with a cursed of death after facing Hades.

Therefore, even if he had managed to get Tenma on his side, Kairos’ plan would have fallen apart the moment they reached Olympus, where Artemis or Apollo would most likely have beaten them easily, or Zeus would have disintegrated them with a single wave of his hand.

Kairos and Tenma arrive at Olympus, challenging the gods.
Zeus moves his hand and they are disintegrated.
Zeus: Who were those?
Artemis and Apollo (looking confused): Who knows?

Kairos’ plan and its effectiveness were just as bad as Kanon’s plan to control the world by using Poseidon (it is never explained how the hell he intended to use a god). At least Saga (evil spirit) wanted to obtain two of the most powerful weapons in the Saint Seiya universe to try to achieve his goals, a weapon that guarantees victory in any conflict and an invincible shield. On top of that, he sought to take control of the Sanctuary and have the Saints fight at his side, the most powerful army in his universe.
 
One detail I forgot to mention. The month’s Champion RED included information about the next Saint Seiya chapter published by Kurumada. In the magazine, it is mentioned that the title of the upcoming chapter will be Saint Seiya THEN Tenkai e no Michi, which means “Paths to the Heavenly Realm.” Therefore, some fans are speculating that the next chapter could mark the beginning of the Heaven Arc.
K48mgZO.jpeg


I just hope that if Kurumada truly intends to begin the Heaven Arc, he announces in that chapter that the manga will start a regular publication schedule, whether weekly or even monthly, because starting a new arc with eight page chapters released every five or six months sounds pretty ridiculous.
 
A few weeks ago, Alquié gave an interview where he talked about Volume 5 of Time Odyssey and revealed some interesting details about it.


I don’t know French, so I can’t comment on everything he mentions in this interview. However, a user on a Portuguese forum compiled some of the details that were mentioned in it.
Obs preliminar: Os textos em negrito são os questionamentos da Kurumada Pro; as reticências são os trechos onde não é possível ver pela qualidade da imagem e/ou tarjas.

  • Seiya enfrenta Arctos sem jamais conseguir desferir um golpe fatal, como se a possibilidade de vencer o General de Chronos lhe fosse proibida. Sentindo a vitória escapar, Saori confia seu báculo a Kiki, que se teletransporta para longe. Arctos então impõe um ultimato: Atena tem 5 horas para levar seu báculo ao Palácio do Tempo, caso contrário ele dizimará todos os seus Cavaleiros, um por um.
  • Após o combate, a alma de Aiolos de Sagitário revela a Seiya que o destino de Arctos está escrito de antemão, seu kairós (O que vocês entendem por “kairós”?) Como no volume 1, é o instante crucial na vida de um homem. As Moiras modificaram o kairós de Ikki, que não é mais o hospedeiro de… O kairós de Arctos, que é um ponto crucial de sua ação, foi selado por Chronos em circunstâncias precisas. (esse trecho parece uma réplica do Alquié à Kurumada Pro). Seiya parte em busca do segredo do kairós de Arctos e descobre que ele será vencido por uma divindade manipulando um cetro da justiça, no dia em que o Cavalo Celestial... o Cavalo dos Oceanos.
  • Convencido de que Pégaso é o Cavalo Celestial em questão, Seiya acompanha Saori com seu báculo até o Palácio do Tempo. Contudo, Saori se recusa a colocar seus Cavaleiros, a quem ama, em perigo. Ela os afasta para protegê-los da ameaça proferida por Arctos (Somente Seiya, Shiryu, Hyoga, Shun e Ikki, não é?) Penso que é preciso considerar todos os Cavaleiros de Atena, pois a ameaça de Arctos recaía sobre todo o Santuário (esse trecho parece uma réplica do Alquié à Kurumada Pro). Mas apenas os cinco Cavaleiros de Bronze acompanharão Saori por amizade e amor.
  • Seiya e seus amigos se recusam a obedecer as ordens de Saori, mas suas Caixas de Pandora são seladas por Atena, prova de que eles não são mais seus Cavaleiros… Seiya fica devastado, ainda mais porque, graças a Seika, ele toma consciência de que está apaixonado por Saori.
  • Com o ultimato chegando ao fim, Saori vai sozinha ao Palácio do Tempo. (Não é o templo de Atena no Santuário?) O Palácio do Tempo é o palácio de Chronos, fora do Santuário, como se vê em cada álbum de Time Odyssey (esse trecho parece uma réplica do Alquié à Kurumada Pro). É ali que acontecerá o combate final, onde ela enfrenta Arctos. Exceto que Seiya foi ao Palácio sem Armadura, completamente vulnerável: “Estou aqui…

It seems that Arctos would have a rather interesting characteristic. Because Chronos sealed or did something to his kairos (one or several key moments where a person’s life and destiny are defined), Arctos can no longer be defeated until certain conditions are fulfilled, that is, until the destined moment arrives when he is meant to be defeated. Therefore, Seiya (God Cloth) will not be able to defeat Arctos, who will be able to come out of that battle unharmed thanks to this ability.

This reminds me in some way of The Lord of the Rings and the fate of the Witch-king, who was prophesied to die only at a specific moment and not by the hand of a man.


An announcement about the announcement of Saint Seiya in the Shōnen Champion. This is the most absurd thing I have read, and I just hope that announcement is something truly important.

From what I have seen, it seems that the beginning of the Heaven Saga is getting closer.
 
A few weeks ago, Alquié gave an interview where he talked about Volume 5 of Time Odyssey and revealed some interesting details about it.


I don’t know French, so I can’t comment on everything he mentions in this interview. However, a user on a Portuguese forum compiled some of the details that were mentioned in it.
Obs preliminar: Os textos em negrito são os questionamentos da Kurumada Pro; as reticências são os trechos onde não é possível ver pela qualidade da imagem e/ou tarjas.

  • Seiya enfrenta Arctos sem jamais conseguir desferir um golpe fatal, como se a possibilidade de vencer o General de Chronos lhe fosse proibida. Sentindo a vitória escapar, Saori confia seu báculo a Kiki, que se teletransporta para longe. Arctos então impõe um ultimato: Atena tem 5 horas para levar seu báculo ao Palácio do Tempo, caso contrário ele dizimará todos os seus Cavaleiros, um por um.
  • Após o combate, a alma de Aiolos de Sagitário revela a Seiya que o destino de Arctos está escrito de antemão, seu kairós (O que vocês entendem por “kairós”?) Como no volume 1, é o instante crucial na vida de um homem. As Moiras modificaram o kairós de Ikki, que não é mais o hospedeiro de… O kairós de Arctos, que é um ponto crucial de sua ação, foi selado por Chronos em circunstâncias precisas. (esse trecho parece uma réplica do Alquié à Kurumada Pro). Seiya parte em busca do segredo do kairós de Arctos e descobre que ele será vencido por uma divindade manipulando um cetro da justiça, no dia em que o Cavalo Celestial... o Cavalo dos Oceanos.
  • Convencido de que Pégaso é o Cavalo Celestial em questão, Seiya acompanha Saori com seu báculo até o Palácio do Tempo. Contudo, Saori se recusa a colocar seus Cavaleiros, a quem ama, em perigo. Ela os afasta para protegê-los da ameaça proferida por Arctos (Somente Seiya, Shiryu, Hyoga, Shun e Ikki, não é?) Penso que é preciso considerar todos os Cavaleiros de Atena, pois a ameaça de Arctos recaía sobre todo o Santuário (esse trecho parece uma réplica do Alquié à Kurumada Pro). Mas apenas os cinco Cavaleiros de Bronze acompanharão Saori por amizade e amor.
  • Seiya e seus amigos se recusam a obedecer as ordens de Saori, mas suas Caixas de Pandora são seladas por Atena, prova de que eles não são mais seus Cavaleiros… Seiya fica devastado, ainda mais porque, graças a Seika, ele toma consciência de que está apaixonado por Saori.
  • Com o ultimato chegando ao fim, Saori vai sozinha ao Palácio do Tempo. (Não é o templo de Atena no Santuário?) O Palácio do Tempo é o palácio de Chronos, fora do Santuário, como se vê em cada álbum de Time Odyssey (esse trecho parece uma réplica do Alquié à Kurumada Pro). É ali que acontecerá o combate final, onde ela enfrenta Arctos. Exceto que Seiya foi ao Palácio sem Armadura, completamente vulnerável: “Estou aqui…

Only one here whom knows (I far as I'm aware) some degree of French here is Unshakable
 
The big Saint Seiya announcement from Kurumada is that the Heaven Chapter will begin, and it will start being published on May 14 (source: NekketsuHeroes). I hope the publication will be better than Next Dimension and THEN.
AykS2oT.jpeg
bMXaA4n.jpeg


Message from Kurumada:
 
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The canon split is coming
I don’t think he will make such drastic changes to the franchise’s lore. In the worst-case scenario, it would only change the way we view the gods as a constant singularity or as a unique entity within the multiverse. In the best-case scenario, it would simply expand some concepts and elements of the lore, especially if Shiori works together with him on this manga. Suda and Kuori could also work with him (considering that their mangas end in the next chapter); however, Shiori is definitely better at expanding the Saint Seiya universe. Additionally, this last point could be true, since some fans are speculating that the drawing of Saori with the arrow does not seem to have been made by Kurumada, as it has a different style from his. Because of this, I have seen some fans speculate that perhaps Shiori, Suda, or Kuori helped him with that drawing.

However, I have always had a different interpretation of the idea of the gods as a multiversal constant. From my point of view, I have always thought that it could be similar to the multiversal singularities in Transformers, where the Thirteen Primes can have a different appearance and even a different history depending on the universe in which they manifest. In this case, the gods we see in each universe would be lesser remnants of them, which may have a different appearance or personality depending on what they experienced in their universes, but they remain connected to the greater spirit of those gods. For example, the spirit of Athena that appears in Dark Wing and possesses knowledge of the multiverse would be the greater spirit of this goddess, while Saori, Sasha, Cattleya, etc., would simply be lesser versions of her used to manifest across the multiverse.
 
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It seems that the announcement of the Heaven Chapter was so impressive that it even resurrected Okada, since after three months he finally published a new chapter.😆

Although this chapter didn’t move the story forward, the plot is still revolving around the rescue of Shun, which has already dragged on for too long and, so far, hasn’t added anything particularly interesting. I hope some enemies appear in the upcoming chapters, because there are still primordial gods left to introduce, and I hope at least several of them show up and that Okada doesn’t do something like what happened with the Titans, half of whom disappeared off-screen, or with the Gladiators, who never returned.

On pages 8 and 9, we can see an image of the planet, and outer space appears dark, with no stars shining in the background. This could confirm that the primordial gods really erased all the stars in the universe. I remember that some people seemed to doubt this feat, although that isn’t surprising, since there is always someone who questions any feat in Saint Seiya and claims that everything is nothing more than hyperbole or metaphorical language.🤐
 
So the Dark Wing Pope was the Sagittarius Saint, Zenith, who's the host of Demiurgos. First move bro does is causality neg Scarlet Needle. Why is he flexing against Gold Saints? 😭


因果を書き換える私の前では何度挑もうと結果は同じだ
Before me, who rewrites causality, no matter how many times you challenge me, the result will be the same.

スカーレットニードル!!
"Scarlet Needle!!"

えっ…?
"Huh…?"

わたくしの技が… 消された?
"My technique… was erased?"

私は創造神故に—
"I am a creator god, therefore/which means…"

因果を書き換えた
"…I can rewrite causality"

とな
"So/It became"

攻撃は当たらなかった
"The attack didn't hit"
 
スカーレットニードル!!
"Scarlet Needle!!"

えっ…?
"Huh…?"

わたくしの技が… 消された?
"My technique… was erased?"

私は創造神故に—
"I am a creator god, therefore/which means…"

因果を書き換えた
"…I can rewrite causality"

とな
"So/It became"

攻撃は当たらなかった
"The attack didn't hit"
In before miracle amp to ignore that
 
The Chapter 50 of Dark Wing has been released, and according to the note at the end of the chapter, it seems that the next chapter will be the last. Although I’ve seen some people speculating that it might be a printing error, but if it’s true, it’s a clear confirmation that Saint Seiya fans just can’t be happy.😭😭😭

Anyway, this week’s chapter had some interesting feats.

Demiurge (Pope) can reflect attacks (this isn’t new, we already saw him do this back in Chapter 16). However, he also states that, as the creator god, he can rewrite causality, and thanks to this, he erased Eulalia’s Scarlet Needle.


The Demiurge’s cosmos is capable of subduing his opponents with the weight of the world itself; this even left Shoichiro unable to move.

To face the Demiurge (Pope), Sojiro suggests that Vassilios and Eulalia use the Athena Exclamation, since this technique has the power to burn causality itself.
Sojiro: If you’re going to defeat a god… you’ll need to pierce through with a single, decisive strike powerful enough to burn away even causality itself!
tPcBZlC.jpeg


So Athena Exclamation vs. Gold Experience Requiem could now be a possible matchup.
 
The Chapter 50 of Dark Wing has been released, and according to the note at the end of the chapter, it seems that the next chapter will be the last. Although I’ve seen some people speculating that it might be a printing error, but if it’s true, it’s a clear confirmation that Saint Seiya fans just can’t be happy.😭😭😭
Hhhmmmm is the burning of causality an inherent property of AE alone or just by reaching the temperature of AE you could do this? 🤔
 
Either that or Soujirou pulls out something crazy
Because an AE is not gonna cut it here
I suppose so, because the Athena Exclamation is the Mahoraga of Saint Seiya.

It has been used several times (I think around five times), and it has never been useful for defeating the opponent. 😆

One of the most epic techniques in Saint Seiya, yet it has never managed to defeat any opponent.🤣🤣

Hhhmmmm is the burning of causality an inherent property of AE alone or just by reaching the temperature of AE you could do this? 🤔
It’s probably the case; this would even explain why the Athena Exclamation was able to work within the Tenbu Horin, which creates a space governed by a law that forbids all attacks. So we could say that this technique can even destroy causality or the very laws of the space where it is used.:unsure:
 
I suppose so, because the Athena Exclamation is the Mahoraga of Saint Seiya.

It has been used several times (I think around five times), and it has never been useful for defeating the opponent. 😆

One of the most epic techniques in Saint Seiya, yet it has never managed to defeat any opponent.🤣🤣


It’s probably the case; this would even explain why the Athena Exclamation was able to work within the Tenbu Horin, which creates a space governed by a law that forbids all attacks. So we could say that this technique can even destroy causality or the very laws of the space where it is used.:unsure:
The AE has consistently been placed under divine power. It failed against Ichor amped Rhadamanthys, it would've failed against Lightning Void had it not been for Rhadamanthys intervening, and Shoichiro already launched a Big Bang at Soujirou in the manga which he tanked with no visible damage. So unless this AE is crazy amped, it won't do shit
But yeah it's good to have that causality defying statement as it explains how it can be used in Tenbu Horin which freezes causality
 
I suppose so, because the Athena Exclamation is the Mahoraga of Saint Seiya.

It has been used several times (I think around five times), and it has never been useful for defeating the opponent. 😆
Yeah no one’s ever gone down directly to a AE, but it was instrumental in taking out Hyperion I believe in omega
 
Yeah no one’s ever gone down directly to a AE, but it was instrumental in taking out Hyperion I believe in omega
No, the Athena Exclamation was completely useless against Hyperion. The only thing it managed to do was break his sword, thanks to the fact that Genbu had previously damaged it and that his spirit intervened to help; otherwise, they would have lost in the clash of powers.

However, destroying his sword only made Hyperion more powerful, so not only did it fail to defeat him, but it actually ended up giving his enemy a kind of ‘zenkai’ boost due to the rage he felt at losing his sword (the symbol of his loyalty to his god).

I imagine Koga and the others must have thought, upon seeing that Shiryu, Fudo, and Kiki not only failed to defeat Hyperion, but actually just made him even more powerful to fight against them.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
No, the Athena Exclamation was completely useless against Hyperion. The only thing it managed to do was break his sword, thanks to the fact that Genbu had previously damaged it and that his spirit intervened to help; otherwise, they would have lost in the clash of powers.

However, destroying his sword only made Hyperion more powerful, so not only did it fail to defeat him, but it actually ended up giving his enemy a kind of ‘zenkai’ boost due to the rage he felt at losing his sword (the symbol of his loyalty to his god).

I imagine Koga and the others must have thought, upon seeing that Shiryu, Fudo, and Kiki not only failed to defeat Hyperion, but actually just made him even more powerful to fight against them.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Remember how it did nothing against Loki too
 
I started reading Saint Seiya (the Kazenban manga version). I had never finished the Saint Seiya anime (I stopped at the Asgard filler arc. It was over 10 years ago, so I watched it in 480p and didn't even know what filler meant).

Right now I'm at the beginning of the Sanctuary arc; Seiya just defeated Aldebaran.

This is pretty cool, although the choreography is extremely simple, it makes up for it with the named special attacks. I just thought they could have more "effects," like, many so far are basically: "character extends their arm upwards, the background changes to the attacker's constellation, and the target is hit by a brute force strike." By "effect" I mean like...

Ikki's "Phoenix Wings Rise" attack doesn't have any cool fire/heat effects; the enemy only receives a simple, visually brutal attack, unlike anime where there's a lot of that fire effect.

Another thing I found somewhat bad is that the pace is too fast; in 30 chapters they're already up against Gold Saints. Seiya evolves extremely quickly, being easily defeated by an enemy and then defeating him in the same chapter. This is kind of bad because it basically destroys the "sense of danger," giving the impression that the enemies aren't that strong. Like, poor Silver Saints, they were introduced and, with the exception of one who defeated Seiya, none of them won a single battle.

-

It's not bad (better than 99% of manga these days), but it does have some flaws.
 
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