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Also, the official translation reads "they come from a higher plane" with "plane" being more accurately translated as dimension as I went over in the blog.
However, I have a few issues. In the first place. The explanation given is that, the one’s sending the messages, are harmless, because they are incorporeal beings from a higher plane. This would fit the traditional definition of a seance. Contacting spiritual beings from a transcendental realm, etc. However, that doesn’t seem to be the case here. In this scene, the senders, would be coming from what is said to be a higher plane, if they were non corporeal spiritual beings from a transcendent realm(as the character put it) but that’s not the case. They are corporeal beings with bodies.
The story seems to frame the speaker as wrong actually, because he’s insisting the beings in question are not enemies, while the main character knows they are.
To restate it, we are told “X are harmless, because they are non coporeal beings from A higher realm.” But we know this is untrue, in several ways. This strongly seems to me that the last part is also unreliable.
However, I have a few issues. In the first place. The explanation given is that, the one’s sending the messages, are harmless, because they are incorporeal beings from a higher plane. This would fit the traditional definition of a seance. Contacting spiritual beings from a transcendental realm, etc. However, that doesn’t seem to be the case here. In this scene, the senders, would be coming from what is said to be a higher plane, if they were non corporeal spiritual beings from a transcendent realm(as the character put it) but that’s not the case. They are corporeal beings with bodies.
Read the whole section, since you completely missed the important parts. Spiritual aspects are tied to this, yes, but they aren't the main focus. Umino only states "someone" from another dimension/space not specifically a spirit. Anyone's message can be channeled granted that they exist in a higher dimension.
The book he received is propaganda from Calaveras to convince people that the Black Moon Clan are not enemies. But they are. Umino also didn't say that they're always non-corporeal. He says "the senders don't normally have a corporeal presence" when Usagi was distressed by the Black Moon. Umino doesn't know that the beings are corporeal, because the propaganda is supposed to convince him that they are good people and harmless.
"Don't normally" is very careful word choice, it doesn't mean they don't it just means they don't usually have corporeal bodies. In this case, they do. Rubeus is a physical being and is very much a threat.
The story seems to frame the speaker as wrong actually, because he’s insisting the beings in question are not enemies, while the main character knows they are.
To restate it, we are told “X are harmless, because they are non coporeal beings from A higher realm.” But we know this is untrue, in several ways. This strongly seems to me that the last part is also unreliable.
The unreliable part is that they are harmless and not a threat. That ison purpose. The Black Moon Clan wants the people of earth to trust them, so they make it seem like they cannot be threats. The part about it being from another dimension with its messengers coming from a higher dimension is NOT portrayed as untrue. In fact the Future is later stated to be a separate Dimension again.
Usagi knows the Black Moon is tricking the people of earth to think they're the good guys. That's the only thing Umino is mistaken about. Once again, The Future is stated to be a Dimension long after this scene.
This is all in the blog and OP, read before posting.
For the thread, I see that 1 and 3 are proven. There's probably a fourth spatial axis, and time is applied to it, but you have not shown that this super-space is of notable size to qualify for Low 1-C.
On it's own, we can't prove it's of significant size, especially after that downgrade. But we can prove the overall structure that contains it is of significant size. As shown in the update, time periods like the main future, alternate future, present, and the past each have their own unique dimension while still being causally linked to each other (paradoxes can happen, and significant changes can wipeout time periods).
In order to travel from one time period to another, you must create a route through spacetime. Meaning these time periods are physically in the same container separated by the spacetime of the container. And because the periods themselves don't share time dimensions, the container would to be four dimensions to hold them all.
When mercury created her world, she established a new temporal axis to reach that world. This would mean that the same container that contains the past, present and future, would need to be able to contain that temporal axis as well as mercury's world. The container itself would have to be significant in size, to be able to contain the past, present, and future as separate locations, separated by spacetime.
When mercury created her world, she established a new temporal axis to reach that world. This would mean that the same container that contains the past, present and future, would need to be able to contain that temporal axis as well as mercury's world. The container itself would have to be significant in size, to be able to contain the past, present, and future as separate locations, separated by spacetime.
The issue I'm seeing is that you still haven't shown that Sailor Mercury's world is big. You can have a sub-dimension the size of a Honda Civic that contains 192,182 spatial dimensions with a time axis and we would still not treat that dimension as being 1-B. You have to show that her space is at least 3-B (if we're geneous) in size before you approach it being usable.
It having a time axis is fine, but that doesn't make it Low 1-C, it makes it vague and non-tierable in the current system.
If your argument is that the general cosmology contains Mercury's world (or at least is comparable to it) and it should be 4D+1, then the issue I'm seeing with that is that it doesn't need to be infinite fifth dimensional for that to work. By virtue of being infinite fourth dimensional due to 3D+1 it can contain it by just having a slightly bigger fifth dimensional axis lioe any Tier 2 space.
But presumably you're going to argue either that Sailor Moon's higher realms contains higher dimensions that would logical would hold the entire space-time and thus qualify for a bigger size or that qualified universal realms would also contain an additional spatial axis.
If you are arguing that this is the case, then you need to update your OP to include it in a more direct and explicit capacity. Your current argument does not justify a Low 1-C upgrade through Mercury's world and other spaces don't require Low 1-C to accomplish what's going on within them.
Sometime last year, our cosmology blog was approved by the wiki. We are currently working on fixing the profile pages, and we think that as we go, it will be easier to apply the new changes in AP from profile to profile. We will be applying the AP changes to the finished pages: Sailor Moon and Galaxia, as well as Queen Nehellenia, since she is a major pillar for scaling the high ends. With further ado, let's start:
Low 1-C
Part 1: Confirming the Existence of an Extra Dimensional Axis
Section A: Mercury's Dimension
During the first arc, Sailor Mercury creates a Super Dimensional Space to bring the cast to a new location. In the novelization, this space is described as existing beyond space and time and beyond the world of three spatial dimensions, making it a world of four spatial dimensions.
This would mean that within the greater cosmology there exist at least four spatial dimensions and at least one dimension of time, totaling five dimensions.
Okay, there are a few problems with this.
First, the scans only say that they traveled to a world that is different from, or does not exist in, their three dimensional world. This does NOT automatically mean that the place itself is a higher spatial dimension. Saying that they went “beyond space-time” (of their normal world) simply means they left their own space-time and entered another one. It does not prove that the new place has a higher spatial dimension. You would need a clear statement that confirms it is higher dimensional.
Second, even if I assume that this place has a fourth spatial axis, there is still no proof that this extra axis is meaningful or significant in any way. Just having an additional axis mentioned is not enough. There must be clear evidence showing that it actually functions as a higher dimension and is important, not just something that exists without any demonstrated impact.
Here is the full argument from the cosmology blog:
In the Dark Kingdom Arc, Sailor Mercury creates/summons a Super Dimensional Space that leads to a world which transcends the space and time of the normal world by using time-axis calculations provided to her by a supercomputer. Visually, it contains what appear to be stars in the background.
This statement perfectly shows what is wrong with this interpretation. This could easily be explained by them traveling to a world that is beyond or simply different from their normal three dimensional reality. There is no need to assume that this automatically means the place has four spatial axes. Saying that it has four spatial dimensions is a logical leap, because nothing directly confirms the existence of an extra spatial axis.
The official Sailor Moon novelization provides further detail, stating that the world the Sailor Guardians traveled to does not exist within the normal three-dimensional world and transcends space-time. Another translation is available on the VSBW Translation Forum.
And this right here proves it. If it does not exist within their normal three dimensional world, then it obviously exists somewhere outside or beyond it. That is the most direct and safest interpretation. Claiming that this automatically means it has four spatial dimensions is a complete non sequitur, and it is not an honest or logically supported interpretation.
Normally, most people would not consider this a higher-dimensional world, since “transcending space-time” can be vague. However, there is another detail often overlooked in previous revisions.
Before Sailor Mercury summons the Super Dimensional Space, she asks Luna for time-axis calculations. In the manga this exchange is brief, but the novelization provides additional context.
At the latter end of the scan, the following is stated:
"Luna, calculate the time axis!" Luna tells Ami the numbers she calculated in advance. Ami puts on her goggles and establishes the time axis as Luna tells her. "I'll make a shield! If we don't, this entire area will be blown away!"
Two things are important here:
The time axis of the normal world already exists and is intact, since Luna was able to transmit its calculations.
So why would Sailor Mercury be establishing a time axis if the current one was not damaged or affected?
If you recall, the earlier scan confirms that the world the Guardians traveled to transcends the space and time of our world and its dimensions. However, that does not mean it lacks space and time altogether —that is never stated.
The most reasonable explanation is that Sailor Mercury was establishing a new time axis in preparation for moving the battle into this transcendent world. Otherwise, she would have no reason to establish another time axis.
I hope you understand that this is completely possible with a world that is simply a different space-time beyond their normal reality. A different space-time would also have its own separate time axis. In fact, it can be argued that she established a time axis specifically to travel between these worlds.
If that is the case, then the “3 dimensional” statement does not help your argument. The so-called fourth dimension you are referring to could just be time itself. In other words, they would be moving along the time axis to reach another world or space-time. That alone would qualify as going “beyond” their normal three spatial dimensions.
So this would not be an example of four spatial dimensions plus time (4D + 1T). Instead, it would simply be the standard model of three spatial dimensions plus one time dimension (3D + 1T).
Since this world transcends both space and time, it would possess a higher spatio-temporal axis than the normal world. Because a Super Dimensional Space was required to access it, this implies that the location is higher-dimensional in scope.
No, this is simply incorrect. You have been repeating this argument for years, and every time it has been rejected.
The term “super-dimensional” does not automatically mean higher dimensional. That is a naming fallacy, and in most cases it is not interpreted that way. Terms like that can just mean “beyond” or “outside” in a general sense, not literally referring to a higher spatial dimension.
Likewise, “transcending space and time” does not necessarily mean higher dimensional existence. As explained earlier, it can simply mean moving beyond the space-time of their current reality and entering a different one. This interpretation is directly supported by the statement you provided.
Because of that, the argument that “it must be higher dimensional because you need super-dimensional space to access it” is not logically sound. Adding more wording or details does not fix the core problem, since there is still no clear or direct statement confirming higher spatial dimensionality.
Usually, a "transcending space-time" statement would be too vague to form a solid conclusion. But there are other details to note that solidify this being a Higher-Dimensional Space. Before Sailor Mercury summons the Hyper-Dimensional Space, she asks Luna for time-axis calculations. In the Manga this was a brief exchange, but the novelization provides further context. The terms '時間軸' and '設定' mean 'time-axis' and 'establishment/creation/setting' in context.
"Luna, calculate the time axis!" Luna tells Ami the numbers she has calculated in advance. Ami puts on her goggles and establishes the time axis as Luna tells her. "I'll make a shield! If we don't, this whole area will be blown away!"
—Sailor Moon Novelization
The time axis for the main universe already exists and is intact. The question arises: Why would Sailor Mercury need to establish/sett up a new Time-Axis? Earlier, the first novelization scan confirms that the World in question transcends the space and time of the main universe and its dimensions. But it doesn't state that the new world lacks space and time.
This is almost a word-for-word repetition of what was already said in the blog, but there is something important to point out here. The term “設定” can have multiple meanings, and it does not always imply literal creation. It can also mean “setting,” “establishing,” or “defining,” depending on the context. Because of that, you cannot automatically assume that it means she created the entire world or its space-time from nothing. This weakens your argument.
Also, the claim that “it doesn’t state that the new world lacks space and time” is questionable. If a character had to establish or create a time axis for that world, then the safer conclusion would be that it did not originally have one, at least not in an accessible or functional sense.
Another reasonable interpretation is that the time axis was established specifically to allow travel to or across that world, rather than to create the entire structure itself. This would also be consistent with the earlier statement describing it as a three-dimensional world, since the additional axis being referenced could simply be time, not an extra spatial dimension.
Yes, this looks like a misinterpretation.
The first scan is not saying that the future is a completely different space-time. It is simply stating that the same person cannot exist more than once in the same time and space. The future is just a different point in time, a different era. That is why the same individual cannot exist there twice at once, because it would create a well-known time paradox. This does not mean the future is a separate space-time; it is still part of the same timeline, just at a later point.
The second scan includes an important detail that was missed. It specifically says that two Silver Crystals cannot exist in the same time. The reason is the same: having two identical versions existing at the same time would cause a paradox. This again relates to temporal overlap, not separate space-times.
None of this proves the existence of different or higher space-times. It only establishes that duplicates cannot coexist at the same temporal point within the same continuum. And since it has already been established that branching timelines do not exist here, there is no basis to argue that these are separate space-times rather than different points along the same timeline.
Sailor Moon and Neo Queen Serenity cannot exist in the same space and time, as doing so would cause a paradox and erase Sailor Moon. This establishes that the past and future are separate space-times, which is standard for many series. However, the series goes further by explicitly stating that they cannot exist in the same dimension.
This is the classic Grandfather's Paradox I was talking about. Let me make this clear, the only reason you're extrapolating that this means they're separate space-times is because it says they can't exist in the same time and space. However what it ACTUALLY means is that two Sailor Moons can NOT exist in the same physical space AND the same time-era simultaneously, since that is what causes this paradox that I had already referred to earlier. Such a paradox however is SOLVED by having different space-times/branching timelines but it isn't here because they're still talking about Sailor Moon being erased because of it. How do you not see this working against you argument?
The kanji used is not the term for pocket spaces or alternate realms (異空間), but rather the term for a mathematical dimension (次元). So when King Endymion refers to “dimension,” he is not simply referring to space in a general sense, but to a dimensional axis.
Okay, no. This is just misleading. Executor_NO has stated on multipledifferentoccasions that the term jigen in Japanese has as much nuance as its English counterpart. It does not always necessarily refer to the mathematical dimensions all the time, but only in cases where context would suggest so
It is explicitly stated that the same person cannot exist within the same space-time and dimension. Since Sailor Moon (from the past) and Neo Queen Serenity (from the future) cannot coexist, this implies that the past and future operate on different dimensional axes.
No, this is simply an example of causality immunity granted by their Sailor Crystals. It does not prove that the future and the past are separate space-times.
Also, remember the Silver Crystal scan you mentioned earlier. It clearly states that two Silver Crystals existing in the same time and in close proximity will interfere with each other and stop functioning properly. That is exactly what is happening here. This directly implies that the future is not a separate space-time, because the interaction is still occurring within the same temporal continuum.
It is even explicitly stated that the past Silver Crystal only works in the past. This further confirms that these crystals are tied to their specific point in time, not to separate space-times or higher-dimensional structures.
Overall, everything here points to the past and future being different points along the same time axis, not separate dimensional axes or separate space-times.
To further corroborate this, during Prince Demande’s detailed explanation of his plan, he also refers to other dimensions using the mathematical kanji. These dimensions can be accessed through time travel using the Black Crystal and Silver Crystal. Time travel is described as movement across different dimensional axes.
The Kanji point is mostly irrelevant here. What actually matters is that these dimensions are accessed through time travel. That strongly suggests they exist along the same temporal axis, rather than being completely separate space-times. You would first need clear proof that they are independent space-times before making that claim.
Even if you could prove they are separate space-times, it would not really support your argument about the future being a different space-time. At best, it would only apply to those specific dimensions, not the future itself.
Dimensional travel and time travel are fundamentally different concepts. Dimensional travel involves moving to a completely separate space-time or reality, while time travel involves moving to a different point along the same time axis. If what is happening here is clearly time travel, then there is no valid reason to claim that it involves separate space-times or higher dimensions.
In any case, this point is mostly irrelevant, because even if you draw conclusions about those dimensions, it would not automatically apply to the future.
This also helps explain why Mercury required time-axis calculations to access a higher dimension. Time periods are structured as separate dimensional axes.
No, it only means that time travel was required to access that world. This completely undermines the main foundation of your argument, which is the “3-dimensional world” statement.
Going beyond that world and moving along the fourth dimension—time—can already be explained by standard time travel. There is no need to assume the existence of an extra spatial axis for this to work.
There is no indication of any extra spatial dimension or axis here. The entire situation can be fully explained through movement along the time axis alone. As I have been saying, this argument ends up contradicting and weakening your own position rather than supporting it.
Further supporting this, Parallel Sailor Moon is an alternate future of Sailor Moon. This alternate future is described as existing in another dimension, again using the mathematical kanji. This demonstrates consistent usage throughout the series: Naoko describes different time periods as operating on separate dimensional axes.
Again, same thing with the Kanji. It doesn't mean a different mathematical dimension. This is a highly misleading argument and I don't understand why you keep doing this here.
I don’t see how this really differentiates anything. Also, being a different dimension (meaning separated from the main world) does not automatically mean it exists on a different spatial or temporal axis like you are claiming.
This is why we don’t automatically assume that every separate dimension is its own space-time. We usually need clear evidence to prove that first.
It is not. It's a severe misinterpretation of the given statements. Given your statements about time traveling to these dimensions, it is entirely more reasonable to state that Mercury simply used a form of time travel (aka accessing the fourth dimension) to travel to a world beyond their 3-dimensional reality. Her accessing this 4th dimension of time adequately satisfies this condition and the world being a different space from their normal reality satisfies the condition of it being transcendent of their world. Nothing here suggests a fourth spatial axis or anything of that nature whatsoever.
Also I wanna bring up something that's very interesting that directly contradicts everything you establish here. On various Sailor Moon profiles, we have immeasurable speed granted to characters who scale to Usagi lighting up the space-time of her entire universe. Now, the only reason something like this can be immeasurable speed is if you state that various eras of time were also reached with this. However, the statement only talks about a single space-time still and yet still includes (presumably) said future as well. So which is it then? Are they different space-times or are they a single space-time, but merely different eras?
Furthermore, a single Silver Crystal has range across the entire cosmology. It lit up and transcended all of space and time, including the Corridor, which exists outside space and time.
This right here supports this. Lighting up and transcending "all of space time" still only refers to a single space-time, and because it still grants it immeasurable speed, that means the future is also the same space-time. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
Also I would like to bring up the fact that this has been rejected atleast twice already and there was even going to be a discussion rule about it.The arguments didn't change whatsoever nor is there any new information here besides the novelization which only provides a different translation nothing new
I first want to make a big shoutout to former user HenshinIntervention who found the novelization and provided translation! This was the last needed puzzle piece to finally get this going! This is brand new, never before seen information! This CRT will have three parts: 1. To accept the Sailor...
Reformatting this arguments to be more streamlined. I have dropped some arguments as they did not work out. But the remaining two I believe work: 4Dimensional Space exists within the Sailor Moon Universe. 1. Sailor Mercury in the 1ast arc uses in-world math, to create a super dimensional...
But presumably you're going to argue either that Sailor Moon's higher realms contains higher dimensions that would logical would hold the entire space-time and thus qualify for a bigger size or that qualified universal realms would also contain an additional spatial axis.
The spacetime that holds mercury’s world would be of significant size because it holds universal realms.
The universal realms would also have to contain an additional axis to connect the past, present, and future, because even though they have their own separate dimensions, they are still connected casually.
If you are arguing that this is the case, then you need to update your OP to include it in a more direct and explicit capacity. Your current argument does not justify a Low 1-C upgrade through Mercury's world and other spaces don't require Low 1-C to accomplish what's going on within them.
Future and past being different timelines is not only unfounded and unsupported but contradicted by a myriad of statements and showings.
This seems like an attempt at misleading
I will post scans later as I do not have access now, but throughout the series, there is a mention of an overarching spacetime that connects the time periods, as well as connecting alternate universes, that feeds back into the corridor.
This spacetime would also be the one that the cast would have to cross to reach Mercury’s world. It would hold all the structures.
Future and past being different timelines is not only unfounded and unsupported but contradicted by a myriad of statements and showings.
This seems like an attempt at misleading
I will post scans later as I do not have access now, but throughout the series, there is a mention of an overarching spacetime that connects the time periods, as well as connecting alternate universes, that feeds back into the corridor.
This spacetime would also be the one that the cast would have to cross to reach Mercury’s world. It would hold all the structures.
If the Future was the same space-time as the Present then Sailor Moon would've continued to fade away even if she traveled to the Present, but she does not. She ceases to fade away as soon as she returned. It is also stated that no two things can exist in the same dimension, meaning the Future is a separate dimension with a separate space-time.
At this point I'm convinced they're are misreading this on purpose because the series could not have been more clear about the separation.
Okay, first off no. The scan that talked about different time and space is literally just referring to Sailor Moon and NQ Serenity existing in the same place at the same time, it isn't saying that they otherwise exist in different "space-time" or timelines. Second, if the past, present and future are linked, we have a term for that called a single timeline which is exactly what we've been telling you. They're a single Low 2-C timeline. The series never "explicitly" refers to them having their own time, space or dimensions. The time and space thing I already proved was a misinterpretation on your part, and the dimensions statement was only a half truth as you omitted the second part of the statement that I highlighted earlier.
Okay, first off no. The scan that talked about different time and space is literally just referring to Sailor Moon and NQ Serenity existing in the same place at the same time, it isn't saying that they otherwise exist in different "space-time" or timelines. Second, if the past, present and future are linked, we have a term for that called a single timeline which is exactly what we've been telling you. They're a single Low 2-C timeline. The series never "explicitly" refers to them having their own time, space or dimensions. The time and space thing I already proved was a misinterpretation on your part, and the dimensions statement was only a half truth as you omitted the second part of the statement that I highlighted earlier.
If the Future was the same space-time as the Present then Sailor Moon would've continued to fade away even if she traveled to the Present, but she does not. She ceases to fade away as soon as she returned.
Yeah because she is no longer in the same place at the same time as her future counterpart, which explains why this happens. Did you look at your own scans carefully, the reason becomes clearer. This situation occurs because of a classic Grandfather Paradox. Although the series refers to it differently, the concept is essentially the same. This is also why it does not follow branching timelines. The explanation is directly stated
And right below this statement, this is being said: "Two silver crystals in the same time....." and "the past silver crystal's power will only work in the past" directly confirms that this is just talking about them existing in the same time period not space-times. And that's why the past Silver Crystal would would work in the past. Also, as showed by numerous scans above, the timeline is literally directly affected by changes either in the past or the future. IIRC Kamen's daughter in the future also gets erased when Kamen is erased in the past too, so that's another anti-feat regarding them being separate timelines. Calling them "separate space-times but causally connected" is just a copout here. It's a single timeline, all things point toward it being a single timeline. Out of the only two scans supporting your statement, one is a misinterpretation, the other is half-truth
The dimension/universe* itself is in a far away region in spacetime.
But the spacetime itself would have to be 5D to hold mercury's world, which is 5D. It also holds the universes which makes it significant size. The universes, at least the main universe, isn't just 4D either, I am also arguing that its 5D too.
The main universe itself is made up of multiple dimensions**: past, present, and future. These time periods are plainly said to have their own time, space, and dimension. They also still have causality and affect each other. Therefore the main universe would require a separate timeline to hold the dimensions together and allow causality to flow. And we know this separate timeline exists because changes to the timeline do not result in a branching timelines, but rather causes the entire timeline to change in all dimensions. Sailor Moon in her final act, restored everything and reverted things back to its original form.
*Japanese uses ikuukan here
**Japanese uses jigen here
***also to clear up some potential confusion, the manga also likes to use spacetime to refer to the container that holds the universes, as well as the universe's spacetime continuum as well
EDIT: I also changed additional axis to additional timeline in the OP, to make things more clear.
And right below this statement, this is being said: "Two silver crystals in the same time....." and "the past silver crystal's power will only work in the past" directly confirms that this is just talking about them existing in the same time period not space-times. And that's why the past Silver Crystal would would work in the past. Also, as showed by numerous scans above, the timeline is literally directly affected by changes either in the past or the future. IIRC Kamen's daughter in the future also gets erased when Kamen is erased in the past too, so that's another anti-feat regarding them being separate timelines. Calling them "separate space-times but causally connected" is just a copout here. It's a single timeline, all things point toward it being a single timeline. Out of the only two scans supporting your statement, one is a misinterpretation, the other is half-truth
You're doing this thing where you claim I said x, and then argue against x. (and others are doing it too so I'll address you all here)
I said, and the text also says, "the same person cannot exist in the same time and space" The text also says, "the same person cannot exist in the same dimension".
Keep it to what the text say. Not your interpretation.
Okay so first off this is a bit wrong, because this translation in your own blog says that it's just a distant space-time. Regardless, nothing here proves that it's "causally linked" nor does this prove that timeline "holds" or "contains" anything as separate space-times here. You've just started throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks atp.
But the spacetime itself would have to be 5D to hold mercury's world, which is 5D. It also holds the universes which makes it significant size. The universes, at least the main universe, isn't just 4D either, I am also arguing that its 5D too.
Complete and utter non-sequitur. The space-time has no reason to be 5D, nor does Mercury's world. Killer already told you previously that just going beyond her normal 3D world into another world doesn't automatically mean that she implicitly refers to a 4th spatial dimension. In fact, the time-axis part outright contradicts this since it implies that she used a form of time travel to get there, meaning that the "4th axis" that you keep baselessly saying is a spatial axis here is merely just the temporal axis that was used for travel, nothing more, which just ends up making it 3D + 1T as stated previously.
It is not. They're not separate dimensions and space-times like you're saying they are, they're literally just a single timeline. Being called different spaces by using the Kanji for jigen DOES NOT prove otherwise because that term is as nuanced in Japanese as it is in English.
No they're not. You're using just two whole scans to support this nothingburger point. The first scan just talks about them being in the same place at the same time. Nothing more, the second scan also renders your point by outright saying they exist in the same time.
They also still have causality and affect each other. Therefore the main universe would require a separate timeline to hold the dimensions together and allow causality to flow.
Or we go with Occam's Razor as well as the simpler and more conservative interpretation that they're literally just a single normal timeline, given how many times it alludes to the grandfather's paradox in every single scan you've posted so far and the fact that your evidence for proving that it's some sort of "hypertimeline" is sorely lacking and otherwise a misinterpretation of just two scans?
And we know this separate timeline exists because changes to the timeline do not result in a branching timelines, but rather causes the entire timeline to change in all dimensions. Sailor Moon in her final act, restored everything and reverted things back to its original form.
Same thing as above, this is just a normal, single timeline. You haven't proven that past, present and future are different timelines or space-times themselves. You haven't proven that Mercury's world is 5D or existts in a container that's 5D, and you haven't proven that the main universe is 5D either. Headcanon after headcanon, assumption after assumption, leap after leap.
*Japanese uses ikuukan here
**Japanese uses jigen here
***also to clear up some potential confusion, the manga also likes to use spacetime to refer to the container that holds the universes, as well as the universe's spacetime continuum as well
EDIT: I also changed additional axis to additional timeline in the OP, to make things more clear.
This means nothing. Just because ikuukan is used in an instance to describe the Tau dimension doesn't mean that all uses of the term jigen now in Sailor Moon suddenly lost all their nuance and will now strictly only refer to mathematical dimensions. That's not how any language in the world works. Weird argument. Also, no. There's no "container" here. It's a speculation and extrapolation from your misinterpretations of the two scans talking about time and space and dimensions. You misinterpreted those and from there basically used a bunch of evidence-padding (which was also debunked now and earlier) to argue that the SM verse has this 5D container space or something that holds all these separate space-times, when that just isn't the case. As far as the main universe goes, it only refers to its own space-time. That's all.
You're doing this thing where you claim I said x, and then argue against x. (and others are doing it too so I'll address you all here)
I said, and the text also says, "the same person cannot exist in the same time and space" The text also says, "the same person cannot exist in the same dimension".
Keep it to what the text say. Not your interpretation.
Do you....understand how this site works? We post evidence and scans and then we interpret and see what they mean. That's the basic premise of a CRT at least. Interpreting a text and offering simpler interpretations isn't some new thing, that's what we do here. Rarely anything is taken at face value without scrutiny. You're making this proposal so you need to prove why your supported interpretation is superior. Another weird argument.
This means nothing. Just because ikuukan is used in an instance to describe the Tau dimension doesn't mean that all uses of the term jigen now in Sailor Moon suddenly lost all their nuance and will now strictly only refer to mathematical dimensions. That's not how any language in the world works. Weird argument. Also, no. There's no "container" here. It's a speculation and extrapolation from your misinterpretations of the two scans talking about time and space and dimensions. You misinterpreted those and from there basically used a bunch of evidence-padding (which was also debunked now and earlier) to argue that the SM verse has this 5D container space or something that holds all these separate space-times, when that just isn't the case. As far as the main universe goes, it only refers to its own space-time. That's all.
It’s telling that you keep ignoring all the evidence that Naoko only uses jigen for time related things, and ikuukan for alternate universes, consistently, across the series.
It’s telling that you keep ignoring all the evidence that Naoko only uses jigen for time related things, and ikuukan for alternate universes, consistently, across the series.
That isn't an argument Iam.
I suggest you stop ignoring every rebuttal that is made to you so we can have a conversation.
You are the one ignoring evidence at this point.
Your own manga debunks you with nearly a dozen scans.
Being a DMC guy I shouldn't say this (glass houses and all that) but those profiles are completely horrible. The priority should be to just bring them up to date first and tier upgrades later which we kinda tried so don't judge me >:V
My argument is LITERALLY that the future is an alternate universe/dimension. How is arguing that it can only be accessed by the Alt universe hallway a rebuttal in any way??
Going back to address this here: if we go by your argument, we would still achieve Low 1-C. If the future was an alternate/dimension, it would be 4D by itself. An extra higher timeline would be required for there to be causality across the alternate time universes.
The dimension/universe* itself is in a far away region in spacetime.
But the spacetime itself would have to be 5D to hold mercury's world, which is 5D. It also holds the universes which makes it significant size. The universes, at least the main universe, isn't just 4D either, I am also arguing that its 5D too.
To be honest I'm not seeing it. Mercury's world being an insignificant pocket dimension that's within spacetime doesn't make Space-Time significant 4D. The different realities are seperates into different space-time realms and said realms require specialized travel to get to.
What you're arguing only really works if the universes were embedded in a super-space that itself has it's own special time-axis. Which I'm not seeing here. The "separation" element being 3D+1 with a greater fifth dimensional compacted axis can accomplish everything being suggested by the scans I'm seeing.
Going back to address this here: if we go by your argument, we would still achieve Low 1-C. If the future was an alternate/dimension, it would be 4D by itself. An extra higher timeline would be required for there to be causality across the alternate time universes.
Or, hear me out for a sec, they're not alternate timelines or dimensions like we've said, and you claiming that is just a misinterpretation of two whole scans, and that they're just a single Low 2-C timeline (which is why they have "causal connectivity" as you say) like 9 different scans above proved
To be honest I'm not seeing it. Mercury's world being an insignificant pocket dimension that's within spacetime doesn't make Space-Time significant 4D.
The scan I showed you, is the Tau Star System, and it's an alternate universe, and it exists somewhere in a far region of spacetime. The tau Star System itself is 4D, so the spacetime, its embedded in is significant 4D, as it contains all the other alternate universes and the main universe.
Earlier you said that the Mercury's world would have an extra dimension, but there is no evidence that its of significant size, so the spacetime would just have slightly larger insignificant 5D to hold it.
I am then arguing that the universe, it made of 4D structures, contained in a timeline. That would make the universe 5D, and make the spacetime holding the universes and mercury's dimension significant.
Or, hear me out for a sec, they're not alternate timelines or dimensions like we've said, and you claiming that is just a misinterpretation of two whole scans, and that they're just a single Low 2-C timeline (which is why they have "causal connectivity" as you say) like 9 different scans above proved
"Misinterpretation" aka ignore what is written on the paper. The scans say the past and future has different time, space, and dimension. Your "interpretation" is just ignoring facts, to get an outcome you want.
Okay so first off this is a bit wrong, because this translation in your own blog says that it's just a distant space-time. Regardless, nothing here proves that it's "causally linked" nor does this prove that timeline "holds" or "contains" anything as separate space-times here. You've just started throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks atp.
Okay. So we have two spacetimes. Spacetime A and Spacetime B. They're far away from each other. That means there is distance between them. And what is between two things that have distance between them? Space. What does this space have to be to hold two spacetimes? 4D.
And I never argued the tau star system is causally linked to the main universe.
That space shouldn't be significant tho because in a previous crt the universe was accepted as static, as in no longer expanding or contracting (and also not infinite since it used to be dynamic). Also this space isnt a container of the spacetimes just a separator
What you're arguing only really works if the universes were embedded in a super-space that itself has it's own special time-axis. Which I'm not seeing here. The "separation" element being 3D+1 with a greater fifth dimensional compacted axis can accomplish everything being suggested by the scans I'm seeing.
No it can't. Let's step back for a moment and focus on just the main universe. The main universe is made of dimensions, which are the time periods, past, present, and future. These time periods are said to have their own time, space and dimension, meaning they're each 4D. To travel in-between them you have to leave spacetime and travel to the corridor, meaning they're separate. In order for them to have causality, they would require a higher timeline to allow events to propagate and change history.
Edit: To add scans
The Corridor confirms that the time periods are separated by rifts.
And in another scan, the past is said to be a physical location on the other side of spacetime.
Yet, there is still an overall history across spacetime:
Even here, demande talks about traveling to different dimensions to change this history.
That space shouldn't be significant tho because in a previous crt the universe was accepted as static, as in no longer expanding or contracting (and also not infinite since it used to be dynamic). Also this space isnt a container of the spacetimes just a separator
The scan I showed you, is the Tau Star System, and it's an alternate universe, and it exists somewhere in a far region of spacetime. The tau Star System itself is 4D, so the spacetime, its embedded in is significant 4D, as it contains all the other alternate universes and the main universe.
By your logic, this would be referring to a literal "physical" distance between the space-times which honestly makes no sense IF you want them to be separate space-times. The simplest interpretation here is that the Tau dimension is just a different dimension altogether from the main universe, nothing more, nothing less. You don't have nearly enough evidence here to argue that it's contained in some massive container space.
Earlier you said that the Mercury's world would have an extra dimension, but there is no evidence that its of significant size, so the spacetime would just have slightly larger insignificant 5D to hold it.
Yeah, and that's your misinterpretation here. The "extra axis" that Mercury implicitly refers to here is the temporal axis which she literally says she uses to move to that different world beyond their normal 3D reality. Aka, it's still just referring to the temporal dimension used for traversing, still 3 spatial and 1 temporal. You haven't even addressed this point, you keep ignoring this even though I reiterated it so many times to see if you have any actual counters to it. If you don't, just concede
I am then arguing that the universe, it made of 4D structures, contained in a timeline. That would make the universe 5D, and make the spacetime holding the universes and mercury's dimension significant.
Of which you have exactly 0 evidence to prove any of these. Your argument that the universe is made of multiple smaller "space-times" is a misinterpretation as I said. It's not "contained" in a timeline, it is a timeline aka it is Low 2-C. That's all. And Mercury uses that temporal dimension to traverse to a different world from their 3D one.
"Misinterpretation" aka ignore what is written on the paper. The scans say the past and future has different time, space, and dimension. Your "interpretation" is just ignoring facts, to get an outcome you want.
That's a complete strawman and you know it. Are you actually, genuinely suggesting that there's no way a scan can be misinterpreted or that it can have additional context that needs to be addressed? Is that what this is? You're asking us to just take everything you post at face value without scrutinizing or challenging it to which you refuse to even reply to?If that's what you are upto then it is not a sound strategy to follow
By your logic, this would be referring to a literal "physical" distance between the space-times which honestly makes no sense IF you want them to be separate space-times. The simplest interpretation here is that the Tau dimension is just a different dimension altogether from the main universe, nothing more, nothing less. You don't have nearly enough evidence here to argue that it's contained in some massive container space.
Yeah, and that's your misinterpretation here. The "extra axis" that Mercury implicitly refers to here is the temporal axis which she literally says she uses to move to that different world beyond their normal 3D reality. Aka, it's still just referring to the temporal dimension used for traversing, still 3 spatial and 1 temporal. You haven't even addressed this point, you keep ignoring this even though I reiterated it so many times to see if you have any actual counters to it. If you don't, just concede
The scan says mercury established a new time axis and they moved to a world not like anything in the 3D dimensional world. Qaws has already agreed that mercury's dimension is 5D but just lacks significant size. (which is already accepted in the cosmology blog). We have been debating about whether the spacetime that holds everything is significant 5D.
That's a complete strawman and you know it. Are you actually, genuinely suggesting that there's no way a scan can be misinterpreted or that it can have additional context that needs to be addressed? Is that what this is? You're asking us to just take everything you post at face value without scrutinizing or challenging it to which you refuse to even reply to?If that's what you are upto then it is not a sound strategy to follow
The corridor literally exists between times and hosts all the spacetimes. The universes are not your standard universes, they have their own unique structure in sailor moon. Everything in the entire series goes against what you are saying. Your only course of action is to ignore what has been written on paper.
You have yet to provide any scans or evidence that supports your conjecture.
Okay. So we have two spacetimes. Spacetime A and Spacetime B. They're far away from each other. That means there is distance between them. And what is between two things that have distance between them? Space. What does this space have to be to hold two spacetimes? 4D.
As I said earlier, that scan most likely just means that the Tau dimension is a different space-time. The mention of "distance" here would be difficult to define or fully understand, especially since there is no clear mention of a larger container space that holds both. A container space would be a major addition to the cosmology, so it would need clear and strong evidence to support it.
Right now, the evidence being used is only one scan, and that scan can be interpreted in more than one way. Because of that, this interpretation is uncertain and cannot be treated as definitively true.
Even if I grant that, this space between them that you claim exists is in no way significant or even notable which is a prerequisite for any sort of tiering, so it's outright irrelevant. No matter how you try to frame this, it's not gonna get you anything.
No it can't. Let's step back for a moment and focus on just the main universe. The main universe is made of dimensions, which are the time periods, past, present, and future. These time periods are said to have their own time, space and dimension, meaning they're each 4D
No, this is just incorrect. Why are you not addressing what I said when I challenged this interpretation? You should understand that this is very close to being false information.
This doesn't mean they're separate. Plenty of verses use a "hyperspace" of sorts to time travel, this is no shape or form evidence that they're literally separate space-times.
