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Helluva Fast Downgrades (Hellaverse Tier 5 Removal)

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DaReaperMan said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Below Heaven - Made in Hell

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Hey look, a High 6-A+ feat in the same blog, using the shockwave.
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I prefer abiding by KE guidelines and prioritizing the destruction caused by the explosion rather than the apparent kinetic energy. In this case, that would be actually calculating destroying half of Pentagram City, not something supposedly weaker that yielded billions upon trillions of times more energy. And again, the supposed "High 6-A" shot still barely destroys anything beyond a few buildings in Heaven. "AP =/= DC" is not applicable here by this wiki's very own guidelines.
Click to expand...
 
DaReaperMan said:
Thank you for telling me "I did not actually read the blog beyond the 5-A stuff"
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That's totally how I was able to gather the arguments from them in this thread, put it into quotes and respond directly to them, yeah? Or if you mean the blog for the calculation, I already addressed all of those arguments, too. It doesn't matter what else it says if the feat violates KE guidelines.
 
OiEuSouDuvi said:
I know this is kind of unpopular, but Hazbin Hotel is an audiovisual program, so I think we have to consider the visuals as well. Like, literally every time Heaven is shown in the first and second seasons, from far away and up close, from above or below, it's smaller than Pentagram City, which also has a larger population than Heaven. Like, you can't even say it's because it's very far away (even though it is), because Heaven is still below the red pentagram above everything.

I know most people disagree, but given that the main argument is half the destruction of Pentagram City, it's good to mention this.
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The moon/sun (the red pentagram ball) is also closer to the ground than Heaven is closer to ground...and Heaven still looks the same size or larger (because it is more visible compared to the moon/sun)
 
StoneKillerz12 said:
This doesn't mean she has zero clue how powerful it is. The only reason Vox even had the idea to design a weapon like the MoL was because of Carmilla informing her fellow Overlords on the potency of angelic steel. Again, this would be like claiming the U.S Military shouldn't be trusted on how strong foreign weapons are if they aren't 100% certain on what powers it.
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StoneKillerz12 said:
Did you even read the thing you're responding to? I specifically explained that this is not what I'm arguing at all. I specifically am agreeing with the notion that the overheated explosion is stronger than the initial, supposedly 5-B blasts it fired ta Heaven. The issue is that the stronger explosion would not have even fully destroyed Pentagram City, consistent with the showings of the weaker supposedly 5-B energy blasts fired at Heaven barely destroying any of it beyond vaguely a few buildings. The latter quite clearly breaks KE rules, this is not a case of "AP =/= DC", and feats have been rejected for this very reason in the past. Unless you wanna argue Omni-Man here is yielding thousands of times more energy than the destruction he causes by flying. If you think "AP =/= DC" in that situation too, go ahead and make a CRT for it.
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Apologies for the confusion. That being said, the shockwave alone still disproves your point. And the said explosion really doesn't have any limit aside from the one given by a source who has never dealt with a Seraphim before.
StoneKillerz12 said:
...huh? That's...literally not how super weapons work, at all. The first Death Star was only around 120 km in diameter, and Alderaan's diameter was 12500 km, much less the distance the Death Star was from it. Hell, the beam fired from the Death Star is considerably less small than the Death Star's diameter. I could list countless more examples, but this is not proof of anything other than precisely proving my side of the argument; the Might of Lilith's range and destructive capacity was what it was weaponized for, it makes no sense for the AP to be several orders of magnitudes greater.
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Different media dude. In the hellaverse, the beam wasn't that large in comparison. Just look at its height compared to St. Peter

Also, if he fires the beam and just moved it up and down, then the planet would still get destroyed, thusly completing its task of mass destruction. Also,
"the Might of Lilith's range and destructive capacity was what it was weaponized for, it makes no sense for the AP to be several orders of magnitudes greater.", its a laser, it was made for accurate destruction, if they wanted more range, make an actual bomb
 
"I-it barely destroys anything and--"

Did you know that tsunamis, despite being well into tiers 8 and 7, very rarely kill people from their destructive capacity, But instead via flodding and drowning?

This is because of this thing called "Inverse Square Law", it's a very basic thing that you have to use basically everywhere. Put simply: those buildings were not taking tier 6 energy. They were taking a minute fraction of it. Like, tier 8 levels, if that. And this is heaven, their steel can harm tier 7 minimum characters.(I'd assume this is where they'd be downgraded to?)
StoneKillerz12 said:
That's totally how I was able to gather the arguments from them and respond directly to them, yeah?
Click to expand...
Yeah.

Regardless, I'd prefer to have my ducks in a row: Can you make a new blog for destroying PC, or do I fall back on Stellar Fish's blog?
 
It's also pretty weird how nobody has addressed this part of the CRT yet:

This is...(for the part that matters), just simply not true. The feat that we used for the longest time to get the strongest characters to 7-A (before that calc was thrown out) and is now accepted as being Low 7-C here is derived from Adam, whom is currently accepted as downscaling from Lucifer, splitting the Hazbin Hotel. It's quite clear from the scene that this was absolutely not a "casual" feat by any means. Adam was getting visibly infuriated at Lucifer toying with and mocking him, was cussing him out veraciously, and then with a bruise on his face and a bloody nose shouted as he used both of his hands to fire what is clearly a full powered blast of holy light from his hands which accomplishes this feat. It does not matter if any of the other feats beneath this are casual when the highest rated one is not. If a top-tier's highest feat is Low 7-C, then a sudden jump of orders of magnitude by at least a billion times (probably higher, but you get the point), then that absolutely qualifies any Tier 5 feats as an outlier. But anyway, this is not the sole issue with the Might of Lilith or characters scaling to it, anyway.
Click to expand...

TL;DR: Adam's currently highest accepted feat that yields Low 7-C was not casual. Ergo, there absolutely is basis for this feat being an outlier.
 
I would like to remind everyone that the explosion is still the size of pentagram, just that its at the very edge of the city, therefore, only half would destroy it. And everything in that range would be at bare minimum pulverized, which would downgrade to at least country level results. The planetary thing is supported by all the ways the story portrays angels.
 
StoneKillerz12 said:
It's also pretty weird how nobody has addressed this part of the CRT yet:
TL;DR: Adam's currently highest accepted feat that yields Low 7-C was not casual. Ergo, there absolutely is basis for this feat being an outlier.
Click to expand...
ITS. A. THIN. BEAM. The potency can still be higher brah. And also that was Adam, who doesn't fully scale to Lucifer, like making shockwaves etc
 
DaReaperMan said:
"I-it barely destroys anything and--"
Click to expand...
"B-but AP =/= DC and--" see, I can do that, too!
DaReaperMan said:
Did you know that tsunamis, despite being well into tiers 8 and 7, very rarely kill people from their destructive capacity, But instead via flodding and drowning?
Click to expand...
Yeah, but at least those tsunamis actually cause notable damage consistent with the tiers they're at. The MoL piercing Heaven hardly even kills anyone either, if a Tsunami hypothetically came from outer space and onto Earth at sub-light speed, I can guarantee you more than just a couple of buildings or cities are getting destroyed.
DaReaperMan said:
This is because of this thing called "Inverse Square Law", it's a very basic thing that you have to use basically everywhere. Put simply: those buildings were not taking tier 6 energy. They were taking a minute fraction of it. Like, tier 8 levels, if that. And this is heaven, their steel can harm tier 7 minimum characters.(I'd assume this is where they'd be downgraded to?)
Click to expand...
Yeah, this would make sense if we are actually calculating the yield of the MoL overheating itself. It would not make sense if the epicenter of that explosion was somehow 5-A, even just a couple of meters away from the epicenter those buildings would be taking far more than Tier 7 or 8 energy, especially given their large surface area. And also, by this line of thinking Earth wouldn't be destroyed by a 5-A explosion in Earth's core
DaReaperMan said:
Yeah.

Regardless, I'd prefer to have my ducks in a row: Can you make a new blog for destroying PC, or do I fall back on Stellar Fish's blog?
Click to expand...
Go ahead and do that, sure.
 
StoneKillerz12 said:
It's also pretty weird how nobody has addressed this part of the CRT yet:



TL;DR: Adam's currently highest accepted feat that yields Low 7-C was not casual. Ergo, there absolutely is basis for this feat being an outlier.
Click to expand...
The calculation determines the minimum value of the feat, however, we are not shown a range limit for Adam's radius in the scene, just as when Might of Lilith was shooting at the pentagram city, she has an enormous range, but it is not shown on screen.

The difference is precisely that while we have another feat with Might of Lilith showing its range/AP more broadly, we don't have that with Adam. If Might of Lilith hadn't been shown doing what it did when thrown into Paradise, and had only cut to the gates falling, it would probably be at level 7 with the feats in Pentagram City, even if that wasn't its power level.
 
ShionAH said:
Its a rule.

Hazbin upgrades? We compare it to Dragon Ball. Hazbin downgrades? We compare it to Dragon Ball.
Click to expand...
StoneKillerz12 said:
It's also pretty weird how nobody has addressed this part of the CRT yet:

TL;DR: Adam's currently highest accepted feat that yields Low 7-C was not casual. Ergo, there absolutely is basis for this feat being an outlier.
Click to expand...

He's shittalking your boy Shion, time for a blood feud
StoneKillerz12 said:
Yeah, I'm fine with that.
Click to expand...
All right, I don't feel like arguing further, still disagree but as long as Hear My Hope is being used and not being ignored, I can live with it.
jack-nicholson.gif

But you will be applying the changes. If you want, I can write up the new statistics values justifications.
 
I am confused. What are we doing rn? Scaling Overlords and such to Island level while Adam and above stay Planet?
 
Woah woah, we aren’t downgrading the Tier 5?? All the debunks are for Hear my Hope stuff
 
Yeah and I havent seen anyone give an actual reasoning why we suddenly accept that? Tf happened lol.

Its a direct on screen feature thats gets to 5-B. You literally can’t get more straightforward than that.
 
ShionAH said:
Yeah and I havent seen anyone give an actual reasoning why we suddenly accept that? Tf happened lol.

Its a direct on screen feature thats gets to 5-B. You literally can’t get more straightforward than that.
Click to expand...
This CRT was very confusing.
 
StoneKillerz12 said:
Go ahead and do that, sure.
Click to expand...
These are in the Statistics Values
For Adam and Lucifer High 7-A: Dividing 40.46 from the 134.09 Gigaton value, resulting in 3.31 Gigatons
For Adam and Lucifer High 6-C: Scales directly to 134.09 Gigatons

For Overlords' 7-B: Dividing 134.09 Gigatons by 1852.82 = 72.3 Megatons
For Overlords' 6-C: Dividing 134.09 Gigatons by the fourteen individuals who helped stop the Might of Lilith's overheat, resulting in 9.5 Gigatons
ShionAH said:
Yeah and I havent seen anyone give an actual reasoning why we suddenly accept that? Tf happened lol.

Its a direct on screen feature thats gets to 5-B. You literally can’t get more straightforward than that.
Click to expand...
I agree, trust me, I agree! But this is the sort of thing I do. I voted, I argued a little, and am giving the OP Values to change to if it is accepted.
OiEuSouDuvi said:
In reality, shaking a planet is at least on the level of a small country, and it's much bigger given the distance.
Click to expand...
It's also incalculable on a planet that's not earthlike--
 
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