Frieren: Beyond Journey's End Discussion Thread

[Epyriel]

We see it twice.

???
We never see the inside of wall passages. Only the outside of their arrow slits.

Or maybe the houses just aren't these 10-15m tall things your scaling implicates they are, and the wall is just standard fair? Or maybe the panel is absolutely miniscule and shouldn't be used as the frame of reference to begin with given you're working with like 1-5px scale. Or maybe there's alternate way to scale it. Or maybe a bunch of things, but 60m? If you don't see the problem there that's a personal issue.

Since absolutely none in Frieren are that big, with most actually falling in line with what you'd expect realistically excluding the capital, but speaking of that, if not even the capital of the continent's fortified wall is that big, we have a huge issue. And when you obtain your value via scaling of a tiny panel, guessing via roads, that are like barely drawn and could be anywhere from like 2m to like 20m, like legit ong we don't know, I wouldn't call that the right choice of action.

Also surely you can not be serious? My point isn't complex enough for you to try to pull that "didn't you just say" slop.
If you, and you are, using baseline averages, in your own words, then, every single possible average known to man, denies your presumptions, you are factually incorrect.

Even if you assume all the houses were minuscule, way smaller than any of the images we actually see of them, this still wouldn’t make sense if we used your assumption.

The wall is on the order of ten times the height of the houses. When exactly is the last time you saw a city house in Frieren or IRL that was 70cm-1m tall? Let alone for a town where all the close up shots show at least 2 storeys?

And this doesn't even work, you said there's no info on averages for that type of shit, evidently you didn't look very hard because it took me a total of five minutes to find about a dozen, with the averages being like 3-5m tops. And very large ones being not even 1/3rd yours.

You found zero info on the average width of inter-wall passages. The width of the wall is not the width of its internal passages, unless you want to assume the wall is entirely hollow. Which is useless since the whole point of this was to find the percentage of empty space within the wall rather than making an assumption.

Actual castles.

Also you just proved my point, they aren't meant to accommodate significant traffic, yet yours are bigger than some of the largest in history. Isn't that a bit of a red flag to you? That's rhetorical, your assumptions, which is what they are mind you, lead to inflated results and vastly inconsistent sizes.
Also lmao what? "horses up spiral-", who the hell is putting horses there?
Why are we headcannoning now? Or did you somehow misinterpret me saying the gate needs to be wide enough for horses to mean they're shoving horses up goddamn STAIRS?

???
I am talking about the wall passages between towers. Y’know, what all the arrow slits are for. This has nothing to do with the gate.

Also that's another thing, why would the arrow slits be like, the size of a house in and of itself? That kind of defeats the point no? To protect and be thin enough to attack outward but to prevent infiltration or attacks landing within?

Arrow slits are tall and thin. How tall they are has nothing to do with how wide they are. Yet you were the one trying to use it as a reference to avoid using the road.

being off by 17% which is quite a bit given volume cubes,

The final result was off by 17%. Not some intermediary step.

yet still even then it's inflated because you didn't use the proper formula or even that good of a panel to do it from, your entire premise is based off assumptions and guesswork, and instead of actually listening you've opted to argue it as if it isn't all easily fixed that could've been done in like 15m.

I spent literally hours implementing your complaints. And then you switch up on a dime. And then nitpick your own suggestions.

Measuring Weise’s density? Nevermind, you wasted hours and now I’m gonna mock you over something I suggested. Using a different reference on panel? Oh nevermind, instead of “5 different ways” to get the size of the town, apparently measuring it at all is pointless.

I don't give a damn if you don't like it man, it needs to be said, that isn't mocking, that isn't even condescending, unless you somehow thought "what are we doing chat", was condescending, in which case no really, because what ARE you doing?

You honestly sound like a parody of yourself.

"Yeah no stopping you right there. Not how this works, they're two completely different towns. If you want to calc it, figure out a way to get that town, which mind you, there's at least 5 ways to do so off the 3 panels we get, not that completely different town. Both being fortified means nothing, you're not even using the fortification as reference but a completely random building, which in and of itself has problems, but most towns in Frieren are fortified, including major capitals, why would a major capital be the same size as some random town? If we followed your logic to get the size, it'd be the same even though we know both implicitly and explicitly they aren't."


This? Hate to break it to you but this was the nice way of putting it, not that there's anything even wrong with that to being with.
Nothing in there is antagonistic or condescending, it's literally saying no you can't do that shit, here is why, and here's an example to clarify why this is faulty based on your logic. But hey if that's condescending and antagonistic, well, I'd much rather have things be done right as opposed to letting blatant falsehoods slip by.

Lol conveniently leaving out half of your post.

You're missing the point entirely.
Ignoring the fact you think calling you out on egregious calc premises is "mocking" as opposed to doing what anyone here should be doing on sight.
You argued that because it looks vaguely like Weise, Weise is a solid equivalent, because they're both fortified towns.
My point is that's completely arbitrary, we see dozens of towns in Frieren with fortified walls, some dense, some not, some big, some small. Your picking of the largest example outside of the capital, makes no sense, what makes it a better pick than THAT town for example? Or the handful of other? That's rhetorical, absolutely nothing, because they're all different towns, as such, you calc THAT town, not Weise, not that town I used as an example to show you HOW they're all different that you somehow misinterpreted as me saying calc that one instead, you calc the town in question, because that's what being effected. nothing more, nothing less.

Which isn't exactly a good enough sample size, especially when you're using, again, this completely different dense town as a baseline for building density clutter.

Held’s town is clearly closer in size to Weise in size and make than the giant capital or the small outpost you posted. And it is more like using the size of a window in New York as a reference for the size of a window in Boston, and then having someone lose their mind over the fact that they are in different cities even days after a different reference was chosen.

Good question, why aren't you using them?

Because it was too small a sample size.

Who's counting flooring on the bottom story for a first story house build directly on brick roading?
And ceiling? Lad that's just a handful of cms extra, add like 10cm if ya want ig.
Also that's a bit odd given I gave sources that have both the bottom and top floor listed.

The fact that at ton of the shots of the actual town houses are shown with steps, and are clearly adding a substantial thickness between floors and ceilings?

Weise's building density, not that it matters because this isn't Weise,

Doesn't matter, it has a fortified wall does it not?
Or maybe they're two different towns and treating them as the same is absolutely asinine?

You didn't calc a sample size, you calced a sample size for this OTHER town, not this one.
I mean, if need be I can get a CGM to tell you to change it, because this is absolutely not ok.

YOUR. IDEA. I was the one that led with an eyeball estimate from the densely packed overview of Held’s town in contrast with Weise. And yet you told me to measure Weise. Which I did. Over hours.

Then DON'T calc it, this isn't complex. Figure out a different method to calc the feat, there's legit 3 different ways to get a value from it besides relying on the town.

Then stop with this nonsense of moved goalposts and just say you disagree with the premise and leave it at that.

I wanted to calculate this largely to satisfy my own curiosity.

Lad, most people are like her height or a lil bit taller, but even being a head taller than her is still firmly manlet range.
Macht IS tall, and he's ong probably the only dude who isn't an actual manlet and just normal because of it.

I’m not even going to try to bother to figure out your rationalization for not the buildings being tall but instead the entire population being significantly shorter.

Regardless, fix it, or don't, but if ya don't, we obv can't use it.

I am 100% done indulging you. If you want to get a calc for this feat evaluated make one yourself.

 

[Chariot190]

???
We never see the inside of wall passages. Only the outside of their arrow slits.

Never said we see inside, but we do see the gates. Which, is what you said there, the gates.

Even if you assume all the houses were minuscule, way smaller than any of the images we actually see of them, this still wouldn’t make sense if we used your assumption.

You mean the images we see of blown apart rubble?
And miniscule? The actual standard size for houses in that area, at that time, isn't miniscule, it's literally the norm. Kind of putting that VSBW thinking cap on there a bit to much.

Also I didn't say use my assumption, I said CALC it properly, I'm just showing you why your assumptions don't work and most certainly aren't the averages you keep claiming they are.

The wall is on the order of ten times the height of the houses.

Hmm it's almost like by your own admission the image isn't drawn to scale properly due to the fact it's a tiny lil itty bitty panel.

When exactly is the last time you saw a city house in Frieren or IRL that was 70cm-1m tall? Let alone for a town where all the close up shots show at least 2 storeys?

All the shots, as in, two panels.
This is tantamount to saying every single time for something that happened once. It's disingenuous at best.

Also let me get this straight, 1m tall houses aren't ok, but 60m gates, 10m arrow slits, and more are?

Man, it's like the image is super tiny and you really shouldn't be using that to pixel scale to begin with, a fact YOU pointed out.

You found zero info on the average width of inter-wall passages. The width of the wall is not the width of its internal passages, unless you want to assume the wall is entirely hollow.

Huh? My dude, I'm not sure how you missed the fact that if the average width of said walls only like 3m, then by default your width that is multiple times larger than that likely isn't that legit.

This, in turn, lowers the volume because the empty space is connected to it. But sure
The walkable passages inside/atop medieval town walls (Wehrgang/chemin de ronde) are like bout 1.0 to 1.5m wide, or more specifically just enough for two armed people to pass at the same time. You also get tiny cases 0.7 to 0.9m, and big walkways like 2m on major fortifications.
Link 1.
Link 2.
Link 3.

Here's some actual examples too.
Marostica is 0.70m wide.
Weissenhorn is 0.73m.
Rundturm/Letzi is 1.20 m wide.
General medieval is1.0 m wide in surveyed sites.
Big imperial works (Roman not medieval but close enough for a high end) 2.5m wide.
Notice how they're these all like 6x below what you got. But all the same the average is wide enough for two armed men to pass through.

Of course, would be best to figure out a way to calc the feat based on itself, prob best to use the actual image where it's highlighted tbh.

Which is useless since the whole point of this was to find the percentage of empty space within the wall rather than making an assumption.

Well you kind of need to get a not inflated width first no?
Maybe I wasn't forward enough but I'm saying your size AS A WHOLE is inflated. It's condtractictoy, leads to impossible sizes that you yourself conceded upon.
You've ong said yourself that scaling tiny reference points is bad, you say you don't have enough shots, so ya know, why are you even doing it that way?

But all the same, I literally listed you examples, are you not capable of looking up the interior of those yourself?

???
I am talking about the wall passages between towers. Y’know, what all the arrow slits are for. This has nothing to do with the gate.

Oh, see above.
Which still begs the question why are you talking about horses going up staircases?

Arrow slits are tall and thin. How tall they are has nothing to do with how wide they are. Yet you were the one trying to use it as a reference to avoid using the road.

And I still am.
Why would the slits be like, going by your scaling, over 3m wide? Not very thin now is it?
Kind of defeats the purpose?

Avoid using the road? Avoid using any guesswork, hell avoid the town entirely, like why is the gate alone 3m going by your scaling? Like not exactly fortified if you ask me.

The final result was off by 17%. Not some intermediary step.

That's huge.
Ignoring the fact you didn't use the right formula, the fact you were still off by 17% even then is massive.

That isn't like 1-2%, that's actual tangible numbers, the fact you think that doesn't matter tells me way to much about the thought process here.

I spent literally hours implementing your complaints. And then you switch up on a dime. And then nitpick your own suggestions.

I mean, if you actually did it right, that'd be one thing. You didn't.
Also you misinterpreting things isn't my problem.

And whether it took you 5 minutes or 5 days is none of my concern, all I care about is if the calc you published checks and is as close to accurate as you can get it. You didn't, and then you still somehow fell through. And my suggestions? My suggestion, is, to calc the actual town itself.

I never once said to use the road, I never once say apply Weise' building density, I said maybe average storey height, but you went with 3m instead of the actual average for the time so you didn't even listen there.

And yeah what of it? The goal is to be precise as possible? I often go through multiple drafts of calcs before settling on how to do it.

Measuring Weise’s density? Nevermind, you wasted hours and now I’m gonna mock you over something I suggested.

Chat, where tf did I say that was ever ok to do that? No like really, yeah, pretty sure the very first thing I told you was that Weise under no circumstances should be applied to this town.

And again, you need to do that for the other feat, that is currently on the profiles, and now has to be recalced and evaluated because you yourself proved you inflated it at MINIMUM by 17%, it's actually higher because volume increases cubically, so that's cool, that's why you don't guess and actually calc it.

And I ong am not mocking you, if I was mocking you, you'd know but as it stands, me saying your calc isn't sufficient, means it isn't sufficient, don't like it to bad, it's not the only calc of yours that has issues so get used to criticism, shit ain't even me being mean dude, if it has problems it has problems that ain't my fault.

Using a different reference on panel? Oh nevermind, instead of “5 different ways” to get the size of the town, apparently measuring it at all is pointless.

Yes, you convinced me it was pointless, your methods and own admission has shown that no matter how you scale the town, you can inconsistent impossible sizes, whether that be tiny buildings, asinine walls, and gates, or even self sabotaging slits, and more. Which tbh in hindsight was probably obvious, it's a tiny panel, the author literally isn't capable of drawing things in scale with each other while conveying semblance of detail, it's just to small for that.
I had ideas initially, but I think it's better to ust scale the beam itself at this point.

You honestly sound like a parody of yourself.

It is wild how you've legit ong basically insulted me directly 3 times because I called your calcs and assumptions insufficient and inflated. Yet I'm the mocking one, well it is what it is.

Lol conveniently leaving out half of your post.

If I'm not mistaken, which I'm not given I'm looking at it, you said, and I quote "immediately lead with-".
That is the immediate lead of my post, the fact it's apparently half my post no less, either means I factually did not immediately elad with "condescension and antagonism", given your reply has backpedaled to "oh i didnt mean that part", or... You're just saying words in which case get over it and get used to it.

Held’s town is clearly closer in size to Weise in size and make than the giant capital or the small outpost you posted.

Based on what? Prove it?
If you can tell, why not just calc it then? In fact thinking on it, why is the walls of his hometown like double Weise's if they're so close apparently?

No dude, there is no "clearly", if it was clear you wouldn't even NEED to use Weise, you'd be able to calc it yourself. Fact is you don't know, you can't prove it, and your headcanon isn't evidence or concrete.

It wouldn't even make sense for it to be as big as Weise anyway, Weise was a flourishing town, this town was out in the metaphorical sticks.

And it is more like using the size of a window in New York as a reference for the size of a window in Boston, and then having someone lose their mind over the fact that they are in different cities even days after a different reference was chosen.

That'd actually be an extremely awful way to calc something yes.
You kind of proving my point.

Your point of reference is still bad though idk what you want me to say here.

And days after? You're STILL using Weise as a point of reference, you just shifted it to building density now.

Because it was too small a sample size.

Which is to say you actually aren't using averages?

The fact that at ton of the shots of the actual town houses are shown with steps, and are clearly adding a substantial thickness between floors and ceilings?

I mean, you're wrong, basically every shot we get has the doors just flat on the groundwork. Which wasn't really destroyed. So, no. The best part is this is THIS town for once, NOT Weise

YOUR. IDEA.

Yes, for the El Dorado calc, that was never going to fly here.

I was the one that led with an eyeball estimate from the densely packed overview of Held’s town in contrast with Weise.

"Eyeball estimate", bro that's just vibe scaling.

And yet you told me to measure Weise.

Yes for the other calc that uses the not so subly wacky buildings.

I said from the start, the VERY first thing i said even, was to not use Weise at all here.

Which I did. Over hours.

I don't care if it took you a year, do it right.

Then stop with this nonsense of moved goalposts and just say you disagree with the premise and leave it at that.

Dude, I wish it was moved goalposts, fact is there's multiple problems, it isn't just one.

Though, I only said that because you have said, no less than 3 times now, that "there ISNT any" this or that, if that's the case (It isn't), then you don't calc it, end of.

I wanted to calculate this largely to satisfy my own curiosity.

Well good for you, people can and will point out if it has flaws, especially if you post it in the discussion thread to be discussed.

I’m not even going to try to bother to figure out your rationalization for not the buildings being tall but instead the entire population being significantly shorter.

I mean blame the author for making Frieren like a 140cm womanlet shit ain't my fault

Also, not how this works, a decrease in size is still a decrease in size and given volume is cubic it explodes pretty fast for even small changes.

I am 100% done indulging you.

I mean hey if you don't want to fix it that's on you, idk why either there's ways to do, you're just opting not to.

If you want to get a calc for this feat evaluated make one yourself.

Ok, I mean I could when I have some time? Man this really do be like going on twitter to say a game or movie has a fault and someone going "well if you can do it better why dont you" i could do it better here which is the meme part.

 

[Epyriel]

Never said we see inside, but we do see the gates. Which, is what you said there, the gates.

You mean the images we see of blown apart rubble?
And miniscule? The actual standard size for houses in that area, at that time, isn't miniscule, it's literally the norm. Kind of putting that VSBW thinking cap on there a bit to much.

Also I didn't say use my assumption, I said CALC it properly, I'm just showing you why your assumptions don't work and most certainly aren't the averages you keep claiming they are.

Hmm it's almost like by your own admission the image isn't drawn to scale properly due to the fact it's a tiny lil itty bitty panel.

All the shots, as in, two panels.
This is tantamount to saying every single time for something that happened once. It's disingenuous at best.

Also let me get this straight, 1m tall houses aren't ok, but 60m gates, 10m arrow slits, and more are?

Man, it's like the image is super tiny and you really shouldn't be using that to pixel scale to begin with, a fact YOU pointed out.

Huh? My dude, I'm not sure how you missed the fact that if the average width of said walls only like 3m, then by default your width that is multiple times larger than that likely isn't that legit.

This, in turn, lowers the volume because the empty space is connected to it. But sure
The walkable passages inside/atop medieval town walls (Wehrgang/chemin de ronde) are like bout 1.0 to 1.5m wide, or more specifically just enough for two armed people to pass at the same time. You also get tiny cases 0.7 to 0.9m, and big walkways like 2m on major fortifications.
Link 1.
Link 2.
Link 3.

Here's some actual examples too.
Marostica is 0.70m wide.
Weissenhorn is 0.73m.
Rundturm/Letzi is 1.20 m wide.
General medieval is1.0 m wide in surveyed sites.
Big imperial works (Roman not medieval but close enough for a high end) 2.5m wide.
Notice how they're these all like 6x below what you got. But all the same the average is wide enough for two armed men to pass through.

Of course, would be best to figure out a way to calc the feat based on itself, prob best to use the actual image where it's highlighted tbh.

Well you kind of need to get a not inflated width first no?
Maybe I wasn't forward enough but I'm saying your size AS A WHOLE is inflated. It's condtractictoy, leads to impossible sizes that you yourself conceded upon.
You've ong said yourself that scaling tiny reference points is bad, you say you don't have enough shots, so ya know, why are you even doing it that way?

But all the same, I literally listed you examples, are you not capable of looking up the interior of those yourself?

Oh, see above.
Which still begs the question why are you talking about horses going up staircases?

And I still am.
Why would the slits be like, going by your scaling, over 3m wide? Not very thin now is it?
Kind of defeats the purpose?

Avoid using the road? Avoid using any guesswork, hell avoid the town entirely, like why is the gate alone 3m going by your scaling? Like not exactly fortified if you ask me.

That's huge.
Ignoring the fact you didn't use the right formula, the fact you were still off by 17% even then is massive.

That isn't like 1-2%, that's actual tangible numbers, the fact you think that doesn't matter tells me way to much about the thought process here.

I mean, if you actually did it right, that'd be one thing. You didn't.
Also you misinterpreting things isn't my problem.

And whether it took you 5 minutes or 5 days is none of my concern, all I care about is if the calc you published checks and is as close to accurate as you can get it. You didn't, and then you still somehow fell through. And my suggestions? My suggestion, is, to calc the actual town itself.

I never once said to use the road, I never once say apply Weise' building density, I said maybe average storey height, but you went with 3m instead of the actual average for the time so you didn't even listen there.

And yeah what of it? The goal is to be precise as possible? I often go through multiple drafts of calcs before settling on how to do it.

Chat, where tf did I say that was ever ok to do that? No like really, yeah, pretty sure the very first thing I told you was that Weise under no circumstances should be applied to this town.

And again, you need to do that for the other feat, that is currently on the profiles, and now has to be recalced and evaluated because you yourself proved you inflated it at MINIMUM by 17%, it's actually higher because volume increases cubically, so that's cool, that's why you don't guess and actually calc it.

And I ong am not mocking you, if I was mocking you, you'd know but as it stands, me saying your calc isn't sufficient, means it isn't sufficient, don't like it to bad, it's not the only calc of yours that has issues so get used to criticism, shit ain't even me being mean dude, if it has problems it has problems that ain't my fault.

Yes, you convinced me it was pointless, your methods and own admission has shown that no matter how you scale the town, you can inconsistent impossible sizes, whether that be tiny buildings, asinine walls, and gates, or even self sabotaging slits, and more. Which tbh in hindsight was probably obvious, it's a tiny panel, the author literally isn't capable of drawing things in scale with each other while conveying semblance of detail, it's just to small for that.
I had ideas initially, but I think it's better to ust scale the beam itself at this point.

It is wild how you've legit ong basically insulted me directly 3 times because I called your calcs and assumptions insufficient and inflated. Yet I'm the mocking one, well it is what it is.

If I'm not mistaken, which I'm not given I'm looking at it, you said, and I quote "immediately lead with-".
That is the immediate lead of my post, the fact it's apparently half my post no less, either means I factually did not immediately elad with "condescension and antagonism", given your reply has backpedaled to "oh i didnt mean that part", or... You're just saying words in which case get over it and get used to it.

Based on what? Prove it?
If you can tell, why not just calc it then? In fact thinking on it, why is the walls of his hometown like double Weise's if they're so close apparently?

No dude, there is no "clearly", if it was clear you wouldn't even NEED to use Weise, you'd be able to calc it yourself. Fact is you don't know, you can't prove it, and your headcanon isn't evidence or concrete.

It wouldn't even make sense for it to be as big as Weise anyway, Weise was a flourishing town, this town was out in the metaphorical sticks.

That'd actually be an extremely awful way to calc something yes.
You kind of proving my point.

Your point of reference is still bad though idk what you want me to say here.

And days after? You're STILL using Weise as a point of reference, you just shifted it to building density now.

Which is to say you actually aren't using averages?



I mean, you're wrong, basically every shot we get has the doors just flat on the groundwork. Which wasn't really destroyed. So, no. The best part is this is THIS town for once, NOT Weise

Yes, for the El Dorado calc, that was never going to fly here.

"Eyeball estimate", bro that's just vibe scaling.

Yes for the other calc that uses the not so subly wacky buildings.

I said from the start, the VERY first thing i said even, was to not use Weise at all here.

I don't care if it took you a year, do it right.

Dude, I wish it was moved goalposts, fact is there's multiple problems, it isn't just one.

Though, I only said that because you have said, no less than 3 times now, that "there ISNT any" this or that, if that's the case (It isn't), then you don't calc it, end of.

Well good for you, people can and will point out if it has flaws, especially if you post it in the discussion thread to be discussed.

I mean blame the author for making Frieren like a 140cm womanlet shit ain't my fault

Also, not how this works, a decrease in size is still a decrease in size and given volume is cubic it explodes pretty fast for even small changes.

I mean hey if you don't want to fix it that's on you, idk why either there's ways to do, you're just opting not to.

Ok, I mean I could when I have some time? Man this really do be like going on twitter to say a game or movie has a fault and someone going "well if you can do it better why dont you" i could do it better here which is the meme part.

As I said I’m done indulging you, find someone with more patience to bother if you want to get a calc evluated for this feat.

And for the record, no, this has had nothing to do with the other calc where the entire city isn’t even worth including compared to the rest of the Golden Land. Would add less than 1 percent.

 

[Chariot190]

As I said I’m done indulging you,

So why'd you respond?

find someone with more patience to bother if you want to get a calc evluated for this feat.

Man, you need to learn, real fast even, that you're on a wiki where our ENTIRE GOAL is to index shit properly, complaining that your faulty calc got called out for being faulty, is actually baffling, like why are you even making calcs if you can't handle having them being criticized if they deserve it?
Instead of yapping about how it's some sort of boogeyman, just listen and calc it properly like goddamn it ain't that hard.

Like legit ong why are you pulling the school playground tech of "you do it" or "get someone else to", nobody even asked you to do it in the first place, nor does anybody else doing it change whether or not your version is sufficient.

And for the record, no, this has had nothing to do with the other calc where the entire city isn’t even worth including compared to the rest of the Golden Land. Would add less than 1 percent.

Actually looking it over, you didn't account for the depth as the town curved wall curved, also also, less to do with the calc but... Don't care, factor it in, especially because you calced the size of the transmutated mass after decades. Which is to say, the actual initial very much needs not only the proper building density of Weise, so no, not 1%, more like most of it, given Macht's ED value kind of hinges on that specific instance.

Why I say this, is because they explicitly say they went back every few years to expand the forcefield because it was steadily growing, you technically calculated an overtime feat as opposed to the instantaneous one he did initially. Iirc they even say in idk I think it's a few more years it'd expand to cover Denken's wife's grave.
Actually don't they just straight up say the distance to Weise from Denken's cottage at one point, could just use that to get everything.

 

[Epyriel]

Actually looking it over, you didn't account for the depth as the town curved wall curved,

Accounted for that. Used the diameter of the circle based on the fitted curve.

also also, less to do with the calc but... Don't care, factor it in, especially because you calced the size of the transmutated mass after decades. Which is to say, the actual initial very much needs not only the proper building density of Weise, so no, not 1%, more like most of it, given Macht's ED value kind of hinges on that specific instance.

Why I say this, is because they explicitly say they went back every few years to expand the forcefield because it was steadily growing, you technically calculated an overtime feat as opposed to the instantaneous one he did initially. Iirc they even say in idk I think it's a few more years it'd expand to cover Denken's wife's grave.
Actually don't they just straight up say the distance to Weise from Denken's cottage at one point, could just use that to get everything.

Frieren transmuted the entire thing at once. But if you want to limit Macht to just what just did initially make another calc.

 

[Chariot190]

Accounted for that. Used the diameter of the circle based on the fitted curve.

Do I really need to explain what depth is my dude?
Also why even use a panel you don't even see the whole diameter.

Frieren transmuted the entire thing at once. But if you want to limit Macht to just what just did initially make another calc.

So your calc is objectively wrong either way then?

If you go by what Freiren did, you ignored a huge portion of land.
If you go by what Macht did, you added a bunch of land.
Either way, it's wrong. Your version of the calc simply doesn't apply to anything.

Also, not how this works. If you don't want to do it, and nobody else wants to atm, it means we remove it from the pages because it's wrong. Idk what you expect but we can't keep it.
I'm to busy atm to do it, so if you don't wanna, that's fine, but we def ain't keeping it on there given it's not a real calc at this point. Alternatively wait like a month or two and I'll get around to it.

Though I will say, no, she didn't, at least not in the way you're implying, she pretty explicitly dispelled it, but dispelling it and actively transmutating it back are not quite the same thing, falls more in line with powernull, a thing she explicitly has and has used many times.

 

[Epyriel]

Do I really need to explain what depth is my dude?
Also why even use a panel you don't even see the whole diameter.

The difference in the depth to the outer-wall from the inner-wall only serves as a conservative estimate thanks to the fact that the reference is closer to the POV than the outer-wall.

And as a reminder, nitpicking this is especially useless since it wouldn’t change the tier which means it wouldn’t even change the yield since creation feat table results use the baseline. Not that using a far-shot with the full diameter would even give a more accurate answer in the first place.

So your calc is objectively wrong either way then?

If you go by what Freiren did, you ignored a huge portion of land.

Do I really need to explain what a lowball is my dude?

We do not see a clear shot of the entirety of the Golden Land after the barrier comes down. But the minimum is obviously whatever it was before it came down.

If you go by what Macht did, you added a bunch of land.
Either way, it's wrong. Your version of the calc simply doesn't apply to anything.

Also, not how this works. If you don't want to do it, and nobody else wants to atm, it means we remove it from the pages because it's wrong. Idk what you expect but we can't keep it.
I'm to busy atm to do it, so if you don't wanna, that's fine, but we def ain't keeping it on there given it's not a real calc at this point. Alternatively wait like a month or two and I'll get around to it.

Though I will say, no, she didn't, at least not in the way you're implying, she pretty explicitly dispelled it, but dispelling it and actively transmutating it back are not quite the same thing, falls more in line with powernull, a thing she explicitly has and has used many times.

Serie even stated he could transmute the entire Plateau, assuming his ability is way less potent than Frieren’s seems incredibly dubious. And undoing a permanent transmutation is still mechanically the same thing physically. It is not like Macht’s ability needed to be actively sustained by him to keep going and Frieren was merely blocking his power feeding it - she dispelled it by reversing it entirely.

 

[Chariot190]

The difference in the depth to the outer-wall from the inner-wall only serves as a conservative estimate thanks to the fact that the reference is closer to the POV than the outer-wall.

I don't care? Do it right.

And as a reminder, nitpicking this is especially useless since it wouldn’t change the tier which means it wouldn’t even change the yield since creation feat table results use the baseline.

I don't care, do it right.

Also you're kind of outing yourself in not actually caring about accuracy. "It wouldn't change the tier".
Yeah and? Ignoring the fact we don't know that unless we correct it to find out. You're already on record ong saying 17% is whatever, which it isn't. That 17% for Macht, btw, would almost certainly drop it.

Also that's a better question, why are we even treating this as a creation feat, that isn't how magic even works in Frieren.

Not that using a far-shot with the full diameter would even give a more accurate answer in the first place.

It would based on the fact we actually get the full diameter, I shouldn't have to explain why getting the full diameter, to scale the full diameter, is more accurate compared to not the full diameter, for the diameter.

Also this isn't a nitpick, a solid few magnitudes for Macht which is in fact a tier change, isn't a nitpick, same for Frieren, and even how you did it, like you already confirmed you're at least 17% off for Macht's end, but 17% doesn't even tell the whole story given volume is cubic, it's not simple percentages.

Do I really need to explain what a lowball is my dude?

I don't care if it's a lowball, highball, or a random number you made up, if you can do it properly, do it properly.

Also no, this isn't a lowball, it's straight up not calcing the feat.
For Macht you're magnitudes above his yield, for Frieren, well issues with the very premise aside, assuming for argument's sake here, you're STILL completely wrong.

This is like calcing a country bust for DBZ based on something that isn't even real, and saying it's a lowball so Emperor Pilaf and Freeza both apply to it despite the two in question having two completely different feats and the feat you're saying they did, is like Pilaf after a year doing stuff.
Do I need to get a CGM to tell you how this works?

We do not see a clear shot of the entirety of the Golden Land after the barrier comes down. But the minimum is obviously whatever it was before it came down.

We do actually, thrice, we're even given distances, and we def see enough background shots to figure it out.
Like my dude what are you doing here?

And the minimum, not for Macht tho at the very least.

Serie even stated he could transmute the entire Plateau,

Yes, he could, how long would it take though? You'd need to divide by time. Because it most definitely isn't instant, based on the fact, it isn't instant. Like the feat she describes ends up happening, it took a few minutes at a constant rate.

This isn't even a "he was said to", it's a "he literally did basically", you're just foregoing the timeframe involved.

In which case, that isn't a argument the feat she describes is something he would only scale to like a few 1/100ths of due to basic division.

assuming his ability is way less potent than Frieren’s seems incredibly dubious.

Given she instantly nulled something that was taking him minutes to do, in a second, yeah sure why not, it is what it is.

And undoing a permanent transmutation is still mechanically the same thing physically.

Not if it's literal magic that works on extremely specific principles.

It is not like Macht’s ability needed to be actively sustained by him to keep going and Frieren was merely blocking his power feeding it

Yep, and? How does that change the fact it's magic and she has power null.

- she dispelled it by reversing it entirely.

No she didn't. Or at least, they never actually say that anywhere.
Why are you assuming that's what she did anyway?
She literally has power null, that she's used like 5 times before that point, all of which happen after having analyzed various spells, in order to nullify, and or, undo them. Like mayhaps 6th time's the charm and she analyzed the complex magic to null it like she's done every other time?

All the same though, your calc literally isn't even real. It's wrong for Macht by actual magnitudes, and probably off for Frieren by a magnitude or so, ignoring the fact her even scaling to it is generous as it is, but regardless, fix it, or not, but the calc in its current form has to be removed, it's not even calcing the actual feats in question.

 

[Epyriel]

I don't care? Do it right.

I don't care, do it right.

Also you're kind of outing yourself in not actually caring about accuracy. "It wouldn't change the tier".
Yeah and? Ignoring the fact we don't know that unless we correct it to find out. You're already on record ong saying 17% is whatever, which it isn't. That 17% for Macht, btw, would almost certainly drop it.

Also that's a better question, why are we even treating this as a creation feat, that isn't how magic even works in Frieren.

It would based on the fact we actually get the full diameter, I shouldn't have to explain why getting the full diameter, to scale the full diameter, is more accurate compared to not the full diameter, for the diameter.

Also this isn't a nitpick, a solid few magnitudes for Macht which is in fact a tier change, isn't a nitpick, same for Frieren, and even how you did it, like you already confirmed you're at least 17% off for Macht's end, but 17% doesn't even tell the whole story given volume is cubic, it's not simple percentages.

I don't care if it's a lowball, highball, or a random number you made up, if you can do it properly, do it properly.

Also no, this isn't a lowball, it's straight up not calcing the feat.
For Macht you're magnitudes above his yield, for Frieren, well issues with the very premise aside, assuming for argument's sake here, you're STILL completely wrong.

This is like calcing a country bust for DBZ based on something that isn't even real, and saying it's a lowball so Emperor Pilaf and Freeza both apply to it despite the two in question having two completely different feats and the feat you're saying they did, is like Pilaf after a year doing stuff.
Do I need to get a CGM to tell you how this works?

And the minimum, not for Macht tho at the very least.

Yes, he could, how long would it take though? You'd need to divide by time. Because it most definitely isn't instant, based on the fact, it isn't instant. Like the feat she describes ends up happening, it took a few minutes at a constant rate.

This isn't even a "he was said to", it's a "he literally did basically", you're just foregoing the timeframe involved.

In which case, that isn't a argument the feat she describes is something he would only scale to like a few 1/100ths of due to basic division.

Given she instantly nulled something that was taking him minutes to do, in a second, yeah sure why not, it is what it is.

Not if it's literal magic that works on extremely specific principles.

Yep, and? How does that change the fact it's magic and she has power null.

No she didn't. Or at least, they never actually say that anywhere.
Why are you assuming that's what she did anyway?
She literally has power null, that she's used like 5 times before that point, all of which happen after having analyzed various spells, in order to nullify, and or, undo them. Like mayhaps 6th time's the charm and she analyzed the complex magic to null it like she's done every other time?

All the same though, your calc literally isn't even real. It's wrong for Macht by actual magnitudes, and probably off for Frieren by a magnitude or so, ignoring the fact her even scaling to it is generous as it is, but regardless, fix it, or not, but the calc in its current form has to be removed, it's not even calcing the actual feats in question.

I’m seriously getting sick of this, making a huge stink about the sanctity of accuracy, ignoring common practice for being conservative towards using the lower method in case of conflict, and then suggesting a much less accurate method to top it off.

Using a far shot where all the references are either out of scale or too small to measure confidently, like we literally just talked about for the other calculation, is not a substitute for a safe lowball using a closer reference to measure the diameter from a detailed perspective.

This is not ‘doing it right’. Not in the slightest.

And no, the density of the city doesn’t even come into play at all. It is not “17% off”. As already said.

And no, the fact she is dispelling does not change the physics of the change in matter. This is not a maintained effect she is cutting off. She is dispelling the transmutation by reversing it. Something Macht himself cannot do.

They even have an entire dialogue about the distinction in magic of how the transmutation of gold back into its previous composition is distinct from transmuting matter into gold. The entire reason this spell was considered irreversible was precisely because this bit of magic and visualization of transmuting people back was so difficult.

Realistically Macht’s transmutation should be far greater considering he could transmute the entire Northern Plateau, but better assume relativity to Frieren’s lowball due to the unknown timeframe. Or if you want to go to an even further lowball, make your own calc and open a CRT to replace it.

We do actually, thrice, we're even given distances, and we def see enough background shots to figure it out.
Like my dude what are you doing here?

Oh really? Where exactly are these elusive distance measurements given? And no, none of the background shots show the border of the expanded Golden Land, nor give any really sufficient detail for scaling the topography.

But since you seem so confident, do your own calc. Let us see exactly how many holes there are in your apparently obvious alternative.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

God damn do yall want me to make a versus matchup between yall at this point because it’s incredibly cooked that an entire discussion page is just a blob of this

 

[Dalesean027]

But since you seem so confident, do your own calc. Let us see exactly how many holes there are in your apparently obvious alternative

Don't do this to yourself, Chariot is gonna come back with his 2 months prep time when he's done with metal gear and demon slayer stuff after that time and cook

God damn do yall want me to make a versus matchup between yall at this point because it’s incredibly cooked that an entire discussion page is just a blob of this

Facts

 

[MyriadOfHeartsSpiritualFlowerGarden]

God damn do yall want me to make a versus matchup between yall at this point because it’s incredibly cooked that an entire discussion page is just a blob of this

strongest calcer in history vs strongest calcer of today ahh battle


btw should i watch the manga or read the anime for this fellas.

i was planning to watch jojo but the memes and vibes i've seen in shorts low key attracted me to this

 

[Dalesean027]

btw should i watch the manga or read the anime for this fellas

I'd say go anime then into manga,the anime is pretty cool

 

[MyriadOfHeartsSpiritualFlowerGarden]

I'd say go anime then into manga,the anime is pretty cool

thank you .

it did seem quite nice, but i was just making sure lol.

 

[Dalesean027]

thank you .

it did seem quite nice, but i was just making sure lol.

No prob, enjoy

 

[Epyriel]

Don't do this to yourself, Chariot is gonna come back with his 2 months prep time when he's done with metal gear and demon slayer stuff after that time and cook

Better that he actually prepare a worthwhile alternative and post it an actual CRT for mods to actually adjudicate rather than sending a tide of flawed spitball methods at me without end. Because this is an entire waste of time on both ends and just clogs up the general discussion thread.

 

[Epyriel]

btw should i watch the manga or read the anime for this fellas.

i was planning to watch jojo but the memes and vibes i've seen in shorts low key attracted me to this

I’d second trying out the anime first and then reading the manga if you are hungry for more.

They added a bunch of stuff in the anime to really flesh it out more, which I think really added to the experience.

 

[Dalesean027]

Better that he actually prepare a worthwhile alternative and post it an actual CRT for mods to actually adjudicate rather than sending a tide of flawed spitball methods at me without end. Because this is an entire waste of time.

I mean he ain't wrong though to point out the flaws of your calcs here, nothing wrong with him pointing out what doesn't work. A general discussion is fine to be a place to do that, really just what comes after is the problem here since it led to all this back and forth like tbf you can't just do some of the stuff ya did for the calc for the town


Yall just need to not get aggro about communicating things to each other since like otherwise a CRT is useless at the stage when shit is still in the discussion thread unless we were ready to have things implemented rn

 

[Epyriel]

like otherwise a CRT is useless at the stage when shit is still in the discussion thread unless we were ready to have things implemented rn

We are not going to reach a consensus here. Better to leave it to a CRT where it can actually be adjudicated by mods rather than clogging up the general discussion thread in endless arguments.

 

[Dalesean027]

We are not going to reach a consensus here. Better to leave it to a CRT where it can actually be adjudicated by mods rather than clogging up the general discussion thread in endless arguments.

Reaching a consensus or the rest is a whole different matter like I said its what came after the initial post that's the problem but someone just pointing out the flaws in a calc in general discussion and explaining in a post why it needs to be fixed isn't inherently bad. Thats what im addressing, the rest is just like
Not even gonna touch the rest

 

[Chariot190]

I’m seriously getting sick of this, making a huge stink about the sanctity of accuracy,

Yep, that's the whole point, get used to it. The goal is to index things properly.

ignoring common practice for being conservative towards using the lower method in case of conflict,

There is no conflict you're just choosing not to do it.

and then suggesting a much less accurate method to top it off.

Do I need to systematically point out every single issue your calc has? Because I can and will if need be.

Using a far shot where all the references are either out of scale or too small to measure confidently, like we literally just talked about for the other calculation,

Except we get multiple shots where the town is in full with clear references.
I legit ong didn't think I had to state the obvious here, obviously if I'm saying that's an option, it's because there's panels where that isn't an issue.

Honestly, I'm not sure why you didn't scale the castle actually, that's the main landmark of the town and is consistently taking up a sizeable portion of it in every single frame, while also being drawn as the largest point of reference in every single shot of the town bar none and fortunately, we get shots to scale it due to the balconies and lads vibing at the gates or in front of the veranda all drawn in large panels and detailed.

is not a substitute for a safe lowball using a closer reference to measure the diameter from a detailed perspective.

It actually is if we get both the full thing AND clear shots of reference AND the panel is drawn at a decent scale.
In fact, that checks off EVERY box possible for what you'd want?

The fact you didn't even use the proper formula is baffling in and of itself tho.

This is not ‘doing it right’. Not in the slightest.

It is actually, a lot better than not doing it at all as is your case.

And no, the density of the city doesn’t even come into play at all. It is not “17% off”. As already said.

It does for Macht's end given that's basically his feat. His actual feat, is simply transmutating the town and a lil bit around it.

As it stands your calc isn't even calcing anything that actually happened, it's simply, indubitably wrong.

And no, the fact she is dispelling does not change the physics of the change in matter.

Yes it does, it's called hax chat. Undoing the magic that did said thing does not mean she effected the thing itself, you're kind of skipping a step in the process, the step that shoots down your entire premise.

This is not a maintained effect she is cutting off. She is dispelling the transmutation by reversing it. Something Macht himself cannot do.

Yep he can't do it. She can though, she can do a lot of things he can't actually. They're two different characters with two different powersets.

It doesn't have to be actively maintained? Like do we really not know what powernull is?

They even have an entire dialogue about the distinction in magic of how the transmutation of gold back into its previous composition is distinct from transmuting matter into gold. The entire reason this spell was considered irreversible was precisely because this bit of magic and visualization of transmuting people back was so difficult.

Yep. And? Actually kind of a self-sabotaging point there, that scan kind of shuts the entire premise down to begin with

It's obviously not based on our creation table or the conversion of masses and material, if it was he very well should be capable of undoing it, but it's stated he can't simply because he doesn't understand humanity or can imagine himself doing it, yet he understands the masses that make them up well enough to transmutate them in the first place? And mind you it isn't like he doesn't know how flesh and blood and whatnot is composed to undo it, given he can undo it on himself and even his own attire. Ergo, the thing he can't visualize, evidently, has nothing to do with the actual material composition or scientific basis of it.

She actively says that they're not equatable transmutations, this, is actually pretty damn weird because by YOUR logic, they would be, the fact they aren't tells us it's not just a matter of transmutation but there's some sort of magical hax component involved.

And finally, she hard confirms that Macht's ability falls under the whole subjective reality notion of magic, as in, it shouldn't even be calced to begin with, it's basically reality warping mixed with law manip, your calc assumes it's working on actual scientific standards as opposed to literal reality warping via imagination that works just because, which, we do not calculate, ever, pretty sure we have rules about that type of stuff actually I'll ask.

Realistically Macht’s transmutation should be far greater considering he could transmute the entire Northern Plateau,

Why are you ignoring the fact it takes him minutes to do that? Actually it isn't even minutes, Frieren was like it's been an hour for the extend he did manage. So no, it shouldn't, not even remotely.


Over an hour, to not even extend past the horizon to the northern capital, which we know, because we get 3-5 shots of the capital's defenses, and they're pre cloud-line.

but better assume relativity to Frieren’s lowball due to the unknown timeframe.

Dude, her feat IN context is better, Serie in the scan you just posted stated what she did is a superior feat as they're not actually equatable. She undid everything he was doing at a slower pace instantly, and it isn't even transmutation to begin with on her end.

Or if you want to go to an even further lowball,

I don't want it lowballed, or highballed, I want it to actually calc what happened not this imaginary intermediary

make your own calc and open a CRT to replace it.

Yeah sure when I have time. That doesn't mean we're going to continue to use yours though, it's wrong by magnitudes either way you go about it, so at the very least I'll be making a CRT for that soon.

Oh really? Where exactly are these elusive distance measurements given?

Implicitly also they give a few travel times, using standard horse speeds would give approximate values, like Fern can sense well outside the barrier into it, for example, and her mana detection range is quite a bit less than what you got for the diameter thinking on it. Among other things.

And no, none of the background shots show the border of the expanded Golden Land, nor give any really sufficient detail for scaling the topography.

They do though, what do you think that giant DBZ-ass energy wall is?

You can just angsize it, we get a shot from Denken's cabin to the cliffside village, we also get multiple shots of the border of the Empire's capital, in which we also see the forcefield defenses, fortunately, we can angsize how far away it is because the forcefield extends to where we can see clouds behind it ergo, meaning it's no few hundreds km away or whatever, but in front of said clouds.

Though. Man you legit just aren't paying much attention to the shots given if you don't think it's possible.

We are given several vital pieces of information throughout the fight with accompanying shots.
Frieren and Sol break away from Denken and begin fighting outside of the gold's expanded range.
Denken and Macht go back to El Dorado and fight within city limits.
Fern manages to snipe Sol who's outside of the gold, we can get Fern's height in the sky via Pythagoras and the angle at which the beam was fired to figure out the distance she was at from Sol, to figure out at minimum how much far away Sol and Frieren were from the gold as Fern was, obviously, turned to gold as such her starting point couldn't have veered to far off when firing given she only had a few seconds tops to get into position to fire while Sol was distracted from the dispel (which enabled Fern to move to begin with).

Taking that piece of info with various other pieces, you can get a pretty accurate distance.

OR
You could like uh


Just get it directly? We get multiple shots to Weise from outside the gold range, like here's a panel directly after she kills Sol, hasn't moved yet, which was out of range of the expanded portion, to the town, which is the epicenter.

Or, ya know, the panel it happens that's like a spread and focused

But since you seem so confident, do your own calc. Let us see exactly how many holes there are in your apparently obvious alternative.

Ok I will when I have time, your calc still needs to be removed all the same though.

But looking over the chapters.

How the hell did you get El Dorado to be 29km wide?
We know it can't be that big because characters can sense it from double the total distance it covers, a fact you can deduce easily via angsizing in numerous panels, the total distance it covers, which would only be like 10-20km. Kind of caps it at like 1/3rd what you got regardless. Which, we also know, because we get so many shots of of Fern or Frieren looking out at it, that simply angsizing the distance between them and the castle wouldn't even get half of what you got.

Another thing I noticed, but what's up with you and picking the most generous panels for each of your calcs?


We get a multitude of shots, here's a few btw, definitely not all, and in all of them, Weise takes up a larger portion relative to the panel you picked. And looking it over, this scale is more consistent, I legit can't really find a single panel that has it even half as small as what you used. But that's besides the point.

Also if we want to talk about holes in calcs, you're one of the last people I'd want to hear that from given not even the basic math is correct in yours, you messed up the actual math in the most evident way possible. You used the diameter instead of the radius to get the area.

Here's the actual formula and the proper result.
pi*((2.95*10^4/2))^2 = 683,492,751m^2.

Meanwhile you wrote π * [(2.95 x 10^4m)/2]2 = 2.73 x 10^9m2.

Your area is off by FOUR TIMES. The result you got, is if you used the diameter instead of the radius, idk how you managed that because you somehow wrote the /2 in there, yet the value you used ignores the /2, your calc is straight up mathematically wrong and this is such a tremendous oversight especially because you did write the proper thing but slipped in the incorrect result, idk chat that's sus af.

This lowers the total volume by 3.48x, which, of course, lowers the end value by 3.48x. That's keeping the mountains the same btw, otherwise the gap would be higher.

Which obviously changes the transmutated value by 3.48x, down to like 45,167,454,315,523,233kg, which knocks it down a whole tier.
And that's just the basic math dude, an extremely egregious computing error inflated your calc a whole tier.
So yeah, not only is your methodology a bit suspect, not only is what you calced not even the actual feat for either, but you didn't even do the calcing part of it properly.

Also why are you taking the highest point as the depth? That don't even make sense, at the very least it'd be cut off due to the dome and not a cylinder, treating the depth as a hemisphere makes it 40% lower on top of the 3.48x lower. So it's even less.
Regardless, your calc isn't even real, it needs to go both for that but because even the math is wrong, I'll redo it when I have time but as it stands, we're not using a calc magnitudes above what one dude scales to that was done over 50 years, as opposed to his initial feat which looking it over looks something like 3km-ish wide. And even if you want to legit say Frieren somehow scales to undoing it (She don't), your calc is still wrong, somehow downplaying the inflation in some weird roundabout way.

And no, like it or not, nobody has to calc it again to get it removed, the fact I'm even willing to doesn't change yours being unusable and we shouldn't be listing complete falsehoods on profile anyway.

 

[Epyriel]

Yep, that's the whole point, get used to it. The goal is to index things properly.

There is no conflict you're just choosing not to do it.

Do I need to systematically point out every single issue your calc has? Because I can and will if need be.

Except we get multiple shots where the town is in full with clear references.
I legit ong didn't think I had to state the obvious here, obviously if I'm saying that's an option, it's because there's panels where that isn't an issue.

Honestly, I'm not sure why you didn't scale the castle actually, that's the main landmark of the town and is consistently taking up a sizeable portion of it in every single frame, while also being drawn as the largest point of reference in every single shot of the town bar none and fortunately, we get shots to scale it due to the balconies and lads vibing at the gates or in front of the veranda all drawn in large panels and detailed.


It actually is if we get both the full thing AND clear shots of reference AND the panel is drawn at a decent scale.
In fact, that checks off EVERY box possible for what you'd want?

The fact you didn't even use the proper formula is baffling in and of itself tho.

It is actually, a lot better than not doing it at all as is your case.

It does for Macht's end given that's basically his feat. His actual feat, is simply transmutating the town and a lil bit around it.

As it stands your calc isn't even calcing anything that actually happened, it's simply, indubitably wrong.

Yes it does, it's called hax chat. Undoing the magic that did said thing does not mean she effected the thing itself, you're kind of skipping a step in the process, the step that shoots down your entire premise.

Yep he can't do it. She can though, she can do a lot of things he can't actually. They're two different characters with two different powersets.

It doesn't have to be actively maintained? Like do we really not know what powernull is?

Yep. And? Actually kind of a self-sabotaging point there, that scan kind of shuts the entire premise down to begin with

It's obviously not based on our creation table or the conversion of masses and material, if it was he very well should be capable of undoing it, but it's stated he can't simply because he doesn't understand humanity or can imagine himself doing it, yet he understands the masses that make them up well enough to transmutate them in the first place? And mind you it isn't like he doesn't know how flesh and blood and whatnot is composed to undo it, given he can undo it on himself and even his own attire. Ergo, the thing he can't visualize, evidently, has nothing to do with the actual material composition or scientific basis of it.

She actively says that they're not equatable transmutations, this, is actually pretty damn weird because by YOUR logic, they would be, the fact they aren't tells us it's not just a matter of transmutation but there's some sort of magical hax component involved.

And finally, she hard confirms that Macht's ability falls under the whole subjective reality notion of magic, as in, it shouldn't even be calced to begin with, it's basically reality warping mixed with law manip, your calc assumes it's working on actual scientific standards as opposed to literal reality warping via imagination that works just because, which, we do not calculate, ever, pretty sure we have rules about that type of stuff actually I'll ask.

Why are you ignoring the fact it takes him minutes to do that? Actually it isn't even minutes, Frieren was like it's been an hour for the extend he did manage. So no, it shouldn't, not even remotely.


Over an hour, to not even extend past the horizon to the northern capital, which we know, because we get 3-5 shots of the capital's defenses, and they're pre cloud-line.

Dude, her feat IN context is better, Serie in the scan you just posted stated what she did is a superior feat as they're not actually equatable. She undid everything he was doing at a slower pace instantly, and it isn't even transmutation to begin with on her end.

I don't want it lowballed, or highballed, I want it to actually calc what happened not this imaginary intermediary

Yeah sure when I have time. That doesn't mean we're going to continue to use yours though, it's wrong by magnitudes either way you go about it, so at the very least I'll be making a CRT for that soon.

Implicitly also they give a few travel times, using standard horse speeds would give approximate values, like Fern can sense well outside the barrier into it, for example, and her mana detection range is quite a bit less than what you got for the diameter thinking on it. Among other things.


They do though, what do you think that giant DBZ-ass energy wall is?

You can just angsize it, we get a shot from Denken's cabin to the cliffside village, we also get multiple shots of the border of the Empire's capital, in which we also see the forcefield defenses, fortunately, we can angsize how far away it is because the forcefield extends to where we can see clouds behind it ergo, meaning it's no few hundreds km away or whatever, but in front of said clouds.

Though. Man you legit just aren't paying much attention to the shots given if you don't think it's possible.

We are given several vital pieces of information throughout the fight with accompanying shots.
Frieren and Sol break away from Denken and begin fighting outside of the gold's expanded range.
Denken and Macht go back to El Dorado and fight within city limits.
Fern manages to snipe Sol who's outside of the gold, we can get Fern's height in the sky via Pythagoras and the angle at which the beam was fired to figure out the distance she was at from Sol, to figure out at minimum how much far away Sol and Frieren were from the gold as Fern was, obviously, turned to gold as such her starting point couldn't have veered to far off when firing given she only had a few seconds tops to get into position to fire while Sol was distracted from the dispel (which enabled Fern to move to begin with).

Taking that piece of info with various other pieces, you can get a pretty accurate distance.

OR
You could like uh


Just get it directly? We get multiple shots to Weise from outside the gold range, like here's a panel directly after she kills Sol, hasn't moved yet, which was out of range of the expanded portion, to the town, which is the epicenter.

Or, ya know, the panel it happens that's like a spread and focused

Ok I will when I have time, your calc still needs to be removed all the same though.

But looking over the chapters.

How the hell did you get El Dorado to be 29km wide?
We know it can't be that big because characters can sense it from double the total distance it covers, a fact you can deduce easily via angsizing in numerous panels, the total distance it covers, which would only be like 10-20km. Kind of caps it at like 1/3rd what you got regardless. Which, we also know, because we get so many shots of of Fern or Frieren looking out at it, that simply angsizing the distance between them and the castle wouldn't even get half of what you got.

Another thing I noticed, but what's up with you and picking the most generous panels for each of your calcs?


We get a multitude of shots, here's a few btw, definitely not all, and in all of them, Weise takes up a larger portion relative to the panel you picked. And looking it over, this scale is more consistent, I legit can't really find a single panel that has it even half as small as what you used. But that's besides the point.

Also if we want to talk about holes in calcs, you're one of the last people I'd want to hear that from given not even the basic math is correct in yours, you messed up the actual math in the most evident way possible. You used the diameter instead of the radius to get the area.

Here's the actual formula and the proper result.
pi*((2.95*10^4/2))^2 = 683,492,751m^2.

Meanwhile you wrote π * [(2.95 x 10^4m)/2]2 = 2.73 x 10^9m2.

Your area is off by FOUR TIMES. The result you got, is if you used the diameter instead of the radius, idk how you managed that because you somehow wrote the /2 in there, yet the value you used ignores the /2, your calc is straight up mathematically wrong and this is such a tremendous oversight especially because you did write the proper thing but slipped in the incorrect result, idk chat that's sus af.

This lowers the total volume by 3.48x, which, of course, lowers the end value by 3.48x. That's keeping the mountains the same btw, otherwise the gap would be higher.

Which obviously changes the transmutated value by 3.48x, down to like 45,167,454,315,523,233kg, which knocks it down a whole tier.
And that's just the basic math dude, an extremely egregious computing error inflated your calc a whole tier.
So yeah, not only is your methodology a bit suspect, not only is what you calced not even the actual feat for either, but you didn't even do the calcing part of it properly.

Also why are you taking the highest point as the depth? That don't even make sense, at the very least it'd be cut off due to the dome and not a cylinder, treating the depth as a hemisphere makes it 40% lower on top of the 3.48x lower. So it's even less.
Regardless, your calc isn't even real, it needs to go both for that but because even the math is wrong, I'll redo it when I have time but as it stands, we're not using a calc magnitudes above what one dude scales to that was done over 50 years, as opposed to his initial feat which looking it over looks something like 3km-ish wide. And even if you want to legit say Frieren somehow scales to undoing it (She don't), your calc is still wrong, somehow downplaying the inflation in some weird roundabout way.

And no, like it or not, nobody has to calc it again to get it removed, the fact I'm even willing to doesn't change yours being unusable and we shouldn't be listing complete falsehoods on profile anyway.

There are a wide multitude of issues with your proposed methods here not to mention the entire basis of transmutation, but I will leave that for an actually dedicated thread rather than continuing to waste time here. But otherwise I’ll fix the /2 calculator mistype and leave it at that.

 

[Chariot190]

There are a wide multitude of issues with your proposed methods

Very nice rebuttal. I'll take that as you can't refute it.

here not to mention the entire basis of transmutation,

Magic, it's almost like we don't even use creation or transmutation calcs unless there's a slew of context and info about it in context, where in this case, we get the exact opposite.

but I will leave that for an actually dedicated thread rather than continuing to waste time here.

I wasn't aware discussing the calcs that are on the page in the verse discussion for said pages is a waste of time when discussing the validity of your faulty calculations, why are you even here if you think doing what this wiki is for is a waste of time?

But otherwise I’ll fix the /2 calculator mistype and leave it at that.

Dude, I actively checked like 8 different calculators, they all took your input properly, you acting kind of sus.

But no, like it or not your calc has a multitude of issues, and your entire argument boils down to unwilling to actually calc the feat in question. Do I need to get CGMs to tell you that shit ain't ok for you to listen?

 

[Epyriel]

Very nice rebuttal. I'll take that as you can't refute it.

Magic, it's almost like we don't even use creation or transmutation calcs unless there's a slew of context and info about it in context, where in this case, we get the exact opposite.

I wasn't aware discussing the calcs that are on the page in the verse discussion for said pages is a waste of time when discussing the validity of your faulty calculations, why are you even here if you think doing what this wiki is for is a waste of time?

Yes, this is very much a waste of time when I have midterms to prepare for while this was a hobby a pursed for the fun of it. And trust me, that last part has been sucked well and truly dry at this point.

If I have time and care to bother after midterms I might go through every step by step inaccuracy in what you are proposing whenever you actually post something cohesive in an actual thread.

Dude, I actively checked like 8 different calculators, they all took your input properly, you acting kind of sus.

???
What on earth are you talking about. I missed the inclusion of /2 when plugging in numbers in a calculator when originally doing it. Like one of the most common errors ever. You really enjoy seeing conspiracies in literally everything. After all, why assume a mistake when you can cast aspersions on someone?

But no, like it or not your calc has a multitude of issues, and your entire argument boils down to unwilling to actually calc the feat in question. Do I need to get CGMs to tell you that shit ain't ok for you to listen?

Nah I’m just not willing to do a thesis defence for calculating every goddamn treebranch. And I am certainly done with your grandstanding.

Remove it entirely at this point, I don’t care.

Considering how much this has a left a bad taste in my mouth, I’d think I’d rather stick to avoiding this place entirely rather than ruin the series for myself.

 

[Chariot190]

Yes, this is very much a waste of time when I have midterms to prepare

Then why are you even here atm? Log-off and deal with that first.

for while this was a hobby a pursed for the fun of it. And trust me, that last part has been sucked well and truly dry at this point.

Sounds like a personal issue ngl.

If I have time and care to bother after midterms I might go through every step by step inaccuracy in what you are proposing whenever you actually post something cohesive in an actual thread.

Which is to say you don't actually know, you're simply backpedaling because your calc had problems and you refuse for some stubborn reason to do it properly, even saying baffling things like 17% don't matter, or it doesn't matter because "it doesn't change the tier", or a handful of other oddly suspect things.

???
What on earth are you talking about. I missed the inclusion of /2 when plugging in numbers in a calculator when originally doing it. Like one of the most common errors ever. You really enjoy seeing conspiracies in literally everything. After all, why assume a mistake when you can cast aspersions on someone?

If I've learned anything this last few messages, it's moreso you don't care about things being precise or accurate, whether that be effort, or just being stubborn dk, but yes, it's a bit suspicious, not saying it's the case but it's definitely a bit odd, I would be glad to be wrong on that front though.
You literally wrote the formula out, plugging what you actually wrote would give proper values, so how did you drop the /2? It was already written? Like did you write everything twice instead of copying and pasting what you already had? Also do you not fact check your calcs before publishing, you say it's a common error, but it's also the most obvious type too? It's evident at a glance the area you got wasn't proper, it's literally the area you'd get for doing the diameter.
better question is how did it get eval'd to begin with.

Nah I’m just not willing to do a thesis defence for calculating every goddamn treebranch.

If you wanted to calc feats involving treebranches, you would have to. Which is the problem here, you aren't even calculating the things in question. BOTH the calcs talked about thus far, barring blatant problems elsewhere, don't even calc the actual feats in question.
That isn't allowed dude.

And I am certainly done with your grandstanding.

Saying words because you don't like being called out on subpar standards and faulty calculations should be expected, honestly I'm surprised it hasn't before, there's a handful that you've done that need reworking.

Remove it entirely at this point, I don’t care.

You should? Like why even calc it if you don't care about it? Why not just do it properly, like why are your only conclusions
1. "i don't wanna do it, you do it/someone else do it if you don't like it", as if that's how calcs being faulty and needing to be redone work.
2. Just refusing to compromise and work with people as to make the calc better.

Like yeah we gotta remove it, but that doesn't mean it can't be salvaged either or fixed with a lil bit of tweaking.

Considering how much this has a left a bad taste in my mouth, I’d think I’d rather stick to avoiding this place entirely rather than ruin the series for myself.

Chat, it ain't that serious. You messed up a calc, this isn't news, and there's nothing wrong with that, I too have made faulty calcs, but instead of throwing a fit over it, I took the time to redo them and fix them even opting to run by any calc I've made as of late by multiple people first and fact checking them dozens of times before publishing, whether it was a quick fix or a fix that took 6 months im still waiting on an imported art book to scan to finish one properly don't matter, we want to avoid guesswork, and if we can do it without guessing, or hell if we can do it using the direct material itself because they give sufficient scans, then we should. Doing what you've been doing is only reasonable when there's actually zero way to do it but that isn't the case.

 

[Epyriel]

Which is to say you don't actually know, you're simply backpedaling because your calc had problems and you refuse for some stubborn reason to do it properly,

Disagreeing with you is not ‘stubbornly refusing to do it properly’ and “refusing to compromise”. Stop acting like the absolute bastion of truth.

I spent time and effort implementing every criticism I thought worthwhile - despite the fact that such was given adversarially and condescendingly at the best of times rather than constructively.

Don’t make not wanting to continue to argue matters after making clear my disagreement and having neither the patience nor time to do so further into something more than it is.

You literally wrote the formula out, plugging what you actually wrote would give proper values, so how did you drop the /2? It was already written?

Wrote out the formulas and then tapped numbers into my calculator on a separate device. I don’t know what kind of software you are using that lets you copy paste wiki-text straight into a calculator. Stop trying to cast aspersions.

even saying baffling things like 17% don't matter,

Seriously, stop lying about me. I never said that. I reported a difference after updating the calc, I never said it didn’t matter.

Chat, it ain't that serious. You messed up a calc, this isn't news, and there's nothing wrong with that,

Yeah no. You do not get to roleplay as the benevolent teacher after grandstanding, mockery, and then personal insinuations to top it off. Don’t say things you don’t believe.

 

[Epyriel]

You should? Like why even calc it if you don't care about it? Why not just do it properly, like why are your only conclusions

And for the record, I cared when making the calcs as a fun hobby. And yes, I would try to make them as accurate as possible.

I stop caring when the entire endeavour becomes miserable. And no, not because I’ve gotten a mistake pointed out or suggestions for improvement on my work. That too was part of the fun, and I’ve had plenty of constructive conversations to that effect. But when any perceived mistake becomes an invitation to mockery or personal aspersions? Yeah that kind of ruins the entire point of participating in the first place. You seem to enjoy that kind of thing, so by all means I leave you to it.

 

[Chariot190]

Disagreeing with you is not ‘stubbornly refusing to do it properly’ and “refusing to compromise”. Stop acting like the absolute bastion of truth.

Lad, this isn't really subject to disagreement. Do it right, stop guessing, stop taking half measures, and stop refusing to do even the most basic things because "it wont change much", not even counting the new feat because that has problems by your own admission, but even the El Dorado calc, you aren't actually calculating the feat as it happens. That isn't something you can choose just not to do.
If you really want to stand that ground, go ahead, but don't act surprised if it's noted to be faulty.

If I need to get a CGM to tell you as much, I will.

I spent time and effort implementing every criticism I thought worthwhile

Which is effectively nothing?
You haven't actually done a single thing asked of you beyond fixing straight up mathematical errors, and the closest you got, was picking an exceptionally poor frame of reference, which mind you, that's by your own admission, with on record here having stated, for the initial calc, small frame of references bad, the sizes get messy no matter what you do, there isn't any good shots, and more.

What you think is worthwhile, and what actually needs to happen, are not the same thing. You keep just guessing, you keep taking extremely suspect panels as a basis, you won't even CALC the actual things in question and instead are calculating feats that simply do not occur in the way the calculation imposes, and you keep saying nuh uh we don't get shots, when we do, blatantly, hell every instance you said we don't get a shot, we straight up do. Like whatever happened to "we don't get any shots of Weise from-", because we do lad.

- despite the fact that such was given adversarially and condescendingly at the best of times rather than constructively.

Call it what you want, but if being called out is such an issue for you, well idk what to say because it's gonna happen a few dozen more times.

Don’t make not wanting to continue to argue matters after making clear my disagreement and having neither the patience nor time to do so further into something more than it is.

Unfortunate as it might be, the calculations you have put forth still have issues, fix them, having clear disagreement doesn't matter if they have issues. Either you fix it or they need to be taken down, there's no in-between here. And some of these issues don't even amount to just personal subjectivity, like there's actual issues, actual formulaic issues mind you, the diameter mishap wasn't the only iffy.

Whether or not you want to continue matters is another thing entirely, you don't have to, but that just forces the nuclear option because of your unwillingness to make do.

Wrote out the formulas and then tapped numbers into my calculator on a separate device.

Always double check and run it by people first. In general, if you aren't start doing that, that goes for everyone here actually. You always want a 2nd or 3rd opinion and look-over to catch shit like that or for pointers.

I don’t know what kind of software you are using that lets you copy paste wiki-text straight into a calculator. Stop trying to cast aspersions.

A basic computer and phone? What are YOU using that doesn't have a copy-paste option, I haven't seen a piece of hardware that's lacked that since the 90s.

Though, well I guess you're calling it aspersions, did so like 3 times in that very post, personally I don't care to much over what someone thinks of me on a debate forum, but just saying lil bit ironic don't you think?

Seriously, stop lying about me.

You've actively, multiple times, have said things don't matter simply because "it doesnt change the tier", or that various percentile values don't matter in the long run. They do, they always do,

That isn't a lie, it's legit just what you've been saying.

I never said that. I reported a difference after updating the calc, I never said it didn’t matter.

You actively have said I think 3 times now, that a facet doesn't matter because it won't change anything or change the tier.

Yeah no. You do not get to roleplay as the benevolent teacher after grandstanding, mockery, and then personal insinuations to top it off.

I mean if you somehow think now I'm acting as some benevolent entity, that says a lot, given nothing has changed between now, and like 3 days ago
Regardless, I'm going to continue doing so given quite literally nothing has changed.
You are, to be blunt, throwing a bit of a fit, because your calc is being argued to be faulty, or inflated, or not even real and is instead some calculation off something that doesn't even happen the way that's being conveyed that doesn't actually apply to a single thing, skimping out on steps for accuracy, and more, isn't grandstanding, it's called either do it right, or don't, but if you don't want to, don't argue it extensively and then complain about how you wasted your own time.

Regardless I can do whatever I want here if it's within wiki guidelines, and nothing i've done even edges into territory otherwise.

Condescending? dude the calcs have problems, many even, calling them out and telling you how to fix them or giving options isn't that, again, get used to it, because you have a slew of things that need to be looked over.
Mocking? Unironically asking you what in the actual hell you're doing, is not mockery, I'm legit still kind of baffled you went about calculating a completely different town that was even stated to have expanded and been flourishing, for a town that's implicitly poorer in scope?Legit doesn't make sense, why was that even on the table.
Personal insinuations? What, that it's oddly suspicious that you made such a blatant oversight in the calc and you picked the worst possible panel that contradicts the scale shown in no less than 18 other shots, several of which are larger and more detailed? Yeah it is suspicious, what do you want me to say? You refuse to compromise on that stance either, like I'm not saying it's on purpose, or even intentional, I would like to think it isn't, but kind of making note of it of future reference in case it does become an actual trend. Seen that type of stuff happen way to often as of late with calcers, better to be safe here.

Don’t say things you don’t believe.

Your calcs have problems, you need to fix them, if you do not want to, that is fine, but that isn't going to magically make it ok to use still. All the same I stand by basically everything i've said here, not like I have any reason not to?

And for the record, I cared when making the calcs as a fun hobby. And yes, I would try to make them as accurate as possible.

Well then do so. You still haven't even updated the Weise calc with the proper building density.

I stop caring when the entire endeavour becomes miserable. And no, not because I’ve gotten a mistake pointed out or suggestions for improvement on my work. That too was part of the fun, and I’ve had plenty of constructive conversations to that effect. But when any perceived mistake becomes an invitation to mockery or personal aspersions? Yeah that kind of ruins the entire point of participating in the first place. You seem to enjoy that kind of thing, so by all means I leave you to it.

Have we lost the plot chat?
Especially that whole personal aspersions things, need I remind you that you've directly insulted me three times here, well before I even said a thing that could even be misconstrued to the stance you seem to think I've been taking, like you really shouldn't be yapping about that sort of thing here, it's not even pot calling the kettle black, it's more akin to the pot shooting someone and then complaining about nothing. All the same, you're on a debate forum, a debate forum based on calculations for various things. If one has problems with your calc, they can, should and likely would argue it, that's going to happen many times, it's going to continue to happen, and complaining about how it kills your fun or whatever isn't anyone else's problem, that's just how this place works.
If you don't like that aspect of the hobby, well idk what to tell you beyond maybe don't do that aspect to begin with idk what you want me to say here.

All the same, don't you have exams or whatever it is you're supposed to be doing, like at this point it doesn't matter, I'll just shove it in the eventual CRT come circa 2038, so either way.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

And for the record, I cared when making the calcs as a fun hobby. And yes, I would try to make them as accurate as possible.

I stop caring when the entire endeavour becomes miserable. And no, not because I’ve gotten a mistake pointed out or suggestions for improvement on my work. That too was part of the fun, and I’ve had plenty of constructive conversations to that effect. But when any perceived mistake becomes an invitation to mockery or personal aspersions? Yeah that kind of ruins the entire point of participating in the first place. You seem to enjoy that kind of thing, so by all means I leave you to it.

Lad, this isn't really subject to disagreement. Do it right, stop guessing, stop taking half measures, and stop refusing to do even the most basic things because "it wont change much", not even counting the new feat because that has problems by your own admission, but even the El Dorado calc, you aren't actually calculating the feat as it happens. That isn't something you can choose just not to do.
If you really want to stand that ground, go ahead, but don't act surprised if it's noted to be faulty.

If I need to get a CGM to tell you as much, I will.

Which is effectively nothing?
You haven't actually done a single thing asked of you beyond fixing straight up mathematical errors, and the closest you got, was picking an exceptionally poor frame of reference, which mind you, that's by your own admission, with on record here having stated, for the initial calc, small frame of references bad, the sizes get messy no matter what you do, there isn't any good shots, and more.

What you think is worthwhile, and what actually needs to happen, are not the same thing. You keep just guessing, you keep taking extremely suspect panels as a basis, you won't even CALC the actual things in question and instead are calculating feats that simply do not occur in the way the calculation imposes, and you keep saying nuh uh we don't get shots, when we do, blatantly, hell every instance you said we don't get a shot, we straight up do. Like whatever happened to "we don't get any shots of Weise from-", because we do lad.


Call it what you want, but if being called out is such an issue for you, well idk what to say because it's gonna happen a few dozen more times.

Unfortunate as it might be, the calculations you have put forth still have issues, fix them, having clear disagreement doesn't matter if they have issues. Either you fix it or they need to be taken down, there's no in-between here. And some of these issues don't even amount to just personal subjectivity, like there's actual issues, actual formulaic issues mind you, the diameter mishap wasn't the only iffy.

Whether or not you want to continue matters is another thing entirely, you don't have to, but that just forces the nuclear option because of your unwillingness to make do.

Always double check and run it by people first. In general, if you aren't start doing that, that goes for everyone here actually. You always want a 2nd or 3rd opinion and look-over to catch shit like that or for pointers.

A basic computer and phone? What are YOU using that doesn't have a copy-paste option, I haven't seen a piece of hardware that's lacked that since the 90s.

Though, well I guess you're calling it aspersions, did so like 3 times in that very post, personally I don't care to much over what someone thinks of me on a debate forum, but just saying lil bit ironic don't you think?

You've actively, multiple times, have said things don't matter simply because "it doesnt change the tier", or that various percentile values don't matter in the long run. They do, they always do,

That isn't a lie, it's legit just what you've been saying.

You actively have said I think 3 times now, that a facet doesn't matter because it won't change anything or change the tier.

I mean if you somehow think now I'm acting as some benevolent entity, that says a lot, given nothing has changed between now, and like 3 days ago
Regardless, I'm going to continue doing so given quite literally nothing has changed.
You are, to be blunt, throwing a bit of a fit, because your calc is being argued to be faulty, or inflated, or not even real and is instead some calculation off something that doesn't even happen the way that's being conveyed that doesn't actually apply to a single thing, skimping out on steps for accuracy, and more, isn't grandstanding, it's called either do it right, or don't, but if you don't want to, don't argue it extensively and then complain about how you wasted your own time.

Regardless I can do whatever I want here if it's within wiki guidelines, and nothing i've done even edges into territory otherwise.

Condescending? dude the calcs have problems, many even, calling them out and telling you how to fix them or giving options isn't that, again, get used to it, because you have a slew of things that need to be looked over.
Mocking? Unironically asking you what in the actual hell you're doing, is not mockery, I'm legit still kind of baffled you went about calculating a completely different town that was even stated to have expanded and been flourishing, for a town that's implicitly poorer in scope?Legit doesn't make sense, why was that even on the table.
Personal insinuations? What, that it's oddly suspicious that you made such a blatant oversight in the calc and you picked the worst possible panel that contradicts the scale shown in no less than 18 other shots, several of which are larger and more detailed? Yeah it is suspicious, what do you want me to say? You refuse to compromise on that stance either, like I'm not saying it's on purpose, or even intentional, I would like to think it isn't, but kind of making note of it of future reference in case it does become an actual trend. Seen that type of stuff happen way to often as of late with calcers, better to be safe here.

Your calcs have problems, you need to fix them, if you do not want to, that is fine, but that isn't going to magically make it ok to use still. All the same I stand by basically everything i've said here, not like I have any reason not to?

Well then do so. You still haven't even updated the Weise calc with the proper building density.

Have we lost the plot chat?
Especially that whole personal aspersions things, need I remind you that you've directly insulted me three times here, well before I even said a thing that could even be misconstrued to the stance you seem to think I've been taking, like you really shouldn't be yapping about that sort of thing here, it's not even pot calling the kettle black, it's more akin to the pot shooting someone and then complaining about nothing. All the same, you're on a debate forum, a debate forum based on calculations for various things. If one has problems with your calc, they can, should and likely would argue it, that's going to happen many times, it's going to continue to happen, and complaining about how it kills your fun or whatever isn't anyone else's problem, that's just how this place works.
If you don't like that aspect of the hobby, well idk what to tell you beyond maybe don't do that aspect to begin with idk what you want me to say here.

All the same, don't you have exams or whatever it is you're supposed to be doing, like at this point it doesn't matter, I'll just shove it in the eventual CRT come circa 2038, so either way.

I'm willing to take on the calc, but on the condition Epyriel does more Dragon Age Calcs

 

[MochOath]

does the Supernatural Willpower of the warriors in Frieren grant them any kind of resistance to fear manipulation?

 

[Zabazab]

Okay Season 2 put me in the mood to FINALLY make a Fern CRT: Since imgur blocks all UK users now, can y'all confirm for me if any/all of the scans in this sandbox are still alive?

 

[Chariot190]

Okay Season 2 put me in the mood to FINALLY make a Fern CRT: Since imgur blocks all UK users now, can y'all confirm for me if any/all of the scans in this sandbox are still alive?

ill check here in a bit

 

[Zabazab]

any kind of resistance to fear manipulation?

No. Their willpower doesn't negate their fear, it lets them act despite their fear.

 

[MochOath]

No. Their willpower doesn't negate their fear, it lets them act despite their fear.

ty for the timely response

 

[Lort15]

I just got a spoiler about season 2 ep 2 seems like a good fight is going there lowk excited to watch

 

[Zabazab]

Would Diagoldze's inability to be perceived or defended against be invisibility, stealth mastery, or a secret third thing?

Also with the new invulnerability revisions, Macht's gold will no longer be considered indestructible sadly.

 

[Zabazab]

The translation I'm looking at, says 20km for that exact panel. As such, I guess I'll check the raws. I think I know why there's a ***** actually, I've come across it in JoJo before.

Thing that will impact calcs: This was not a translation issue. It said 20km in the weekly release, and this was changed to 10km in volume 2.

So mana detection range will be taken as 10km for those who are as good as Frieren or Aura.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

SI: Coercion?