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Which is especially egregious considering base Naruto can clash evenly with Sasuke following the Kage Summit arc, where Naruto wouldn't have gotten any stronger since his fight with Pain.
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The silliest Naruto LS upgrade
- Thread starter DavidTPPM
- Start date
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They blatantly say Sage Mode Naruto is
A. Superior to base (we don't need a statement for that)
B. Stronger than that Sasuke
This is like giving batman a class G rating cause Superman has a class 5 one
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- #43
Ah yes nothing says "moderator" than justifying toxicity.
Peak vsbw experience is having to have members moderate a moderators behavior and them have that moderator justify it
You left out the part where the mountain bench would have to be at sub average human level speed and this feat is at rel+ speeds.
Idk man that seems like a pretty big difference
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I don’t agree with this CRT but no. That’s not it. That’s a weakened, drained, and blind Sasuke. Naruto won’t be scaling to Sasuke peak self from that clash for the same reason Kakashi wouldn’t.
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Sasuke who can still use a chidori and says he won't hold back at all against Naruto? I don't think being blind would impact his physical strength too.
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- #46
The rhino feat is a general lowball (since the exact hight Naruto sent it to is hard to estimate) of an extremely casual Naruto feat.
Kid Naruto with kyubi influence has a feat only about 1000x weaker.
Base part 1 Tsunade has a feat only about 140x weaker.
Not really saying this automatically makes it consistent but this wouldn't be even close to a "million times upgrade" .
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Gulp!Ah yes nothing says "moderator" than justifying toxicity.
Peak vsbw experience is having to have members moderate a moderators behavior and them have that moderator justify it
You're milking the whataboutism of moving things fast that you don't realize the absolute absurdity of someone being able to use the moon like a dumbell because of a speed calc with a sword that isn't even 2 kilograms in weight while the literal name of your blog is "Sasuke bicep curls a small moon or something", and you think it's a nonexistent problem
Oh lord vsbw gon give people mftl for blinking in a few weeks or something
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I’m pretty sure “not holding back” at your last dregs of chakra has no bearing on this. Sasuke at the final valley could still use a chidori with the minuscule chakra kurama gathered up for naruto.
Plus we have peak FKS Sasuke chidori scaling to Bijuu level characters; Naruto isn’t that level with a normal Rasengan.
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- #49
KT tell me, what are the 2 values that you multiply by each other in the formula for force?
One is mass and the other that is equally important is what exactly?
No I'm very much aware that this is goofy and frankly problematic because it upgrades certain characters far higher than they should be. I keep calling this silly and stupid because it definitely feels like it.
The problem is if we went by what I think is "silly" then we wouldn't have tier 3 Bleach, tier 4 Naruto, or tier 5/6 OP. Thinking something is absurd doesn't magically make it against our policies.
That's what I was thinking the 3 times the S&S calc was proposed and accepted by 2 different CGMs but it seems nobody had issues with it when it wasn't Naruto related
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Common sense.
There's a difference between thinking someone with blatant universal statements and feats being tier 3, feats and statements being tier 4, and tier 5 feats being tier 5 is silly, and swinging a 1kg sword like benching the moon being stupid.
You disagree with the line of logic? Okay. Don't be an tool and act as if it's a valid perfectly fine feat, or because "they do it so i can" is an honest standpoint.
Fortunately you're not the only person who disagreesThat's what I was thinking the 3 times the S&S calc was proposed and accepted by 2 different CGMs but it seems nobody had issues with it when it wasn't Naruto related
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I didn't say a specific speed value, in general when you move faster there is more weight and resistance you are exposed to, in the context of this thread you're arguing about Rel+ momentum which would require in real world physics a pretty big load of force to be applied on your body.
Dawg showing dropping physical weight's for training to increases speed isn't the same at all as them showing someone encountering actual forces and weight increase directly applied to the body at high speeds like irl and even narratively its not even treated like that. You're not understanding that the faster you move the more forces that are exerted on you so dropping the weights you're wearing matters less and less the faster something is moving especially when we get to talking about relativistic speeds when the force applied is like exponentially increasing, lee or any naruto character doesn't show the same physics as what I sent above and no one makes note of anything like that
Lee is probably the biggest antithesis to the point you're making
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- #52
Force = mass * common sense
Damn yeah I agree Sasuke can't upscale, that mfer has no common sense whatsoever
And what might that be?
Like you're yet to actually say a logical reason against it. Are you implying we should ban force calculations?
I disagree with it exactly in the sense of "it's very silly and likely unintended" but mathematically speaking? There's nothing wrong with it.
If you propose a policy that effectively gets rid of this problem I'll happily support it, but without that what can we do?
Yeah all it took was the threat of a Naruto upgrade
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lol
anyways this thread is already disagreed on cause it breaks rules so i'm not gonna waste my time here
anyways this thread is already disagreed on cause it breaks rules so i'm not gonna waste my time here
Qurbonboev
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Did you seriously bring up common sense, lmao? You might as well use that common sense to argue against idea of Earth being round or first Newton law.
You don't need physic degree to realise that swinging anything at near light speeds would require insane LS (even without accounting for relativity effects). If something IRL did replicate this feat, there would be no doubt that it has Class P LS.
If you disagree with using this calc(I too disagree with using this calc, btw), just use argument of Naruto not treating relationship between speed, LS and AP with sufficient realism, instead of idiotic appeal to common sense, when Newtonian mechanics has plenty of things contradicting that sense
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I also disagree with it for being an outlier among the lifting strength feats displayed by the characters at the time.
Ghostimuscrime
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All powerscaling is interpretation based, if it’s wrong let it be assessed and rejected in the normal manner
Let’s not pretend you haven’t proposed much more outlandish stuff, I don’t care if you talk shit about it in discord/general threads, but crts put an obligation on everyone to be respectful especially from people of authority that are supposed to be role models of the community, one person does this others join in since "staff did this so I can too" and it can lead to toxicity, bullying, arguments from incredulity, derailment seriously quit it man.
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Literally just send a scan that basically says this same phenomena is happening to these characters or has them mentioning that they are combating insanely high g-forces the faster they move and fight and that they have to power through it to maintain their speeds.
Right now you have literally 0 proof to support your arguments, and saying "he took off training weight and it make him very fast" ain't gonna cut it especially if he's GOING FASTER then that means even MORE force should be exerted on his body to the point the weights being on or off is negligible and that they should be fighting against exponentially higher forces and weights to even move their bodies but its not noted to happen
For instance a piece of paper moving at 0.9c
0.005kg*1349066.06m/s^2 = 137566.45338kg of force and thats not even doing it in a way to actually account for relativistic mass so if he's going to continue to accelerate even faster then if anything he should be noting how its harder to do when he's weightless since there's that much more force being exerted on him but nope no one says this in naruto
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I agree that users and especially staff should be respectful on here, even when it comes to proposals that they disagree hard with.
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Yall irk me to no end
When did saying "this is bullshit" become a crime.
Yall act like I called him scum of the earth and that he should never make a thread again. I said moving a kilogram sword being Class P is bullshit and yall throw a fit
Relax not everything is hostile some things are just true bullshit
EVEN THE OP believes it's bullshit. Stop being overly soft to where speaking with a backbone is considered "rude".
Ghostimuscrime
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I'm not sure if this was discussed in the last page, I haven't really kept up like that but would something like this qualify?
In Chapter 529 and 562, it is explained Mabui's ethereal transmission jutsu transports things at the speed of light, when the topic came about discussing if humans being transported by it she brought up the force of light speed travel acts on the body and results in them being torn apart / dead and you need a "tough physique" just to withstand it and survive like seen with both generations of the Raikage
(If it was addressed prior I'll delete this post)
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Op is joking or else he wouldn’t go through the trouble of making a cal and a CRT if he considered the feat “bullshit”.
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Ghostimuscrime
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alright drama queen, It's not like I'm sending you to RVR, all I did was politely request you not do this
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Don't make it a habit to paint a member as hostile because they don't talk like barney
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Didn't want to argue in bad faith, but, since your assumption was constant force acting upon a known mass, moving it by a known distance, in a known (which was implied "universal") time-frame; you are already saying that Sasuke was moving at FTL for a part of the distance (because again, this part of the calc was given a classical treatment)
Your average speed is 0.86..c, but 2nd end of your calc (which uses Relativistic kinetic energy) suggests it reached 0.86..c after traveling 0.97m (or whatever) due to the constant force acting upon it. Which again, not the way.
You can actually find a Force expression for mass m moving x(t) or lets say (distance D in this case=0.974m), in a time t as measured by observer lets say (Tau in this case since I had to switch variables in middle=3.74966071e-9s), in 1-D, due to a constant force F.
(Tau here is not the proper time btw)
The expression is F = 2*D*M/(T^2-(D/c)^2) and inserting above values you get 7.56*10^17N which is even greater than what you got (expected)
And you can even find the real final speed by utilizing the expression for v you already got above and substituting F in it.
F=2Dmc^2/((cT)^2-D^2), v=2TDc^2/((cT)^2-D^2)/sqrt(1+(2DTc/((cT)^2-D^2)))^2), v=2TDc^2/sqrt(((cT)^2-D^2)^2+(2DTc)^2), v=2TDc^2/((cT)^2+D^2)
Which is 2.967385951736*10^8 m/s which is about 0.9898c
Your average speed is 0.86..c, but 2nd end of your calc (which uses Relativistic kinetic energy) suggests it reached 0.86..c after traveling 0.97m (or whatever) due to the constant force acting upon it. Which again, not the way.
You can actually find a Force expression for mass m moving x(t) or lets say (distance D in this case=0.974m), in a time t as measured by observer lets say (Tau in this case since I had to switch variables in middle=3.74966071e-9s), in 1-D, due to a constant force F.
(Tau here is not the proper time btw)
The expression is F = 2*D*M/(T^2-(D/c)^2) and inserting above values you get 7.56*10^17N which is even greater than what you got (expected)
And you can even find the real final speed by utilizing the expression for v you already got above and substituting F in it.
F=2Dmc^2/((cT)^2-D^2), v=2TDc^2/((cT)^2-D^2)/sqrt(1+(2DTc/((cT)^2-D^2)))^2), v=2TDc^2/sqrt(((cT)^2-D^2)^2+(2DTc)^2), v=2TDc^2/((cT)^2+D^2)
Which is 2.967385951736*10^8 m/s which is about 0.9898c
Kazuma_kuwabara
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MATH, MY ONLY WEAKNESS DiesDidn't want to argue in bad faith, but, since your assumption was constant force acting upon a known mass, moving it by a known distance, in a known (which was implied "universal") time-frame; you are already saying that Sasuke was moving at FTL for a part of the distance (because again, this part of the calc was given a classical treatment)
Your average speed is 0.86..c, but 2nd end of your calc (which uses Relativistic kinetic energy) suggests it reached 0.86..c after traveling 0.97m (or whatever) due to the constant force acting upon it. Which again, not the way.
You can actually find a Force expression for mass m moving x(t) or lets say (distance D in this case=0.974m), in a time t as measured by observer lets say (Tau in this case since I had to switch variables in middle=3.74966071e-9s), in 1-D, due to a constant force F.
(Tau here is not the proper time btw)
The expression is F = 2*D*M/(T^2-(D/c)^2) and inserting above values you get 7.56*10^17N which is even greater than what you got (expected)
And you can even find the real final speed by utilizing the expression for v you already got above and substituting F in it.
F=2Dmc^2/((cT)^2-D^2), v=2TDc^2/((cT)^2-D^2)/sqrt(1+(2DTc/((cT)^2-D^2)))^2), v=2TDc^2/sqrt(((cT)^2-D^2)^2+(2DTc)^2), v=2TDc^2/((cT)^2+D^2)
Which is 2.967385951736*10^8 m/s which is about 0.9898c
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Yeah, hence why we need a correlation between speed and strength. Which we have.
Hell we even know traveling that fast over long periods of time becomes dangerous and can even kill you without sufficient durability in Naruto.
What it is, is exactly what the KE rules state we need to show.
This honestly seems like you don't understand what the problem the KE page is talking about even is.
The problem is very clearly said to be the fact that fictional stories often ignore the correlation between speed and strength.
So you have situations where someone like Quicksilver can statue someone like Thor, and yet Quicksilvers strength is that of an average human.
And to avoid this specific issue we require there to be evidence the verse does consider speed and strength to be related. Otherwise you risk scaling average human level characters to building level just because the author didn't consider this correlation. We do not require a fictional story to read out a physics book and give us an explanation on how moving fast changes how air feels. We only require the story to confirm there to be evidence that the author was taking the correlation between speed and strength into account.
This is why this rule only applies to small objects and not to any KE feat.
No, the main evidence that I mentioned and that you seem to be avoiding constantly is the fact that Ohnoki manipulating the Raikages weight directly results him in getting faster.
Proving the only thing we need to prove - the correlation between speed and strength.
Because it's not necessary. You can't just make up some crazy unrealistic expectations and then act like a verse not following them somehow disregards their feats.
You're trying to make it seem like you're appealing to some existing rule but in reality you're just appealing to your own personal standards that have nothing to do with the wiki.
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This would actually almost be alright but since its SoL and not below the SoL it disqualifies this from being usable since that'd require infinite durability to withstand in irl physics and they only note it for durability rather LS since they aren't like physically forcing themself through those speeds with their own force rather than just withstanding via durabilityI'm not sure if this was discussed in the last page, I haven't really kept up like that but would something like this qualify?
In Chapter 529 and 562, it is explained Mabui's ethereal transmission jutsu transports things at the speed of light, when the topic came about discussing if humans being transported by it she brought up the force of light speed travel acts on the body and results in them being torn apart / dead and you need a "tough physique" just to withstand it and survive like seen with both generations of the Raikage
(If it was addressed prior I'll delete this post)
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The concept of kinetic energy (one of the most obvious laws of physics everyone understands at least instinctually) being occasionally acknowledged in a verse is not good evidence to take a random Relativistic+ movement to Class P just because they happened to be holding a stick at the time. Obviously disagree.
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Ghostimuscrime
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But would it not imply the general effects of light speed travel is taken into consideration by the story rather than treating it as a speed only thing, if the durability requirement of it is based on the immense force produced by light speed travel surely Relativistic Movement should also account for said force being produced by the characters that do perform these feats
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Agree with Stellar LS for Konohamaru
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Not into STE
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Yeah I actually agree that this is only Sasukes average speed and his actual peak speed is probably slightly higher.
But we usually don't account for this on the wiki unless the distance is something crazy like during interstellar travel.
That's still sub-light speed which still allows us to scale it to the 4TNKE (or about 0.93c) KE.You can actually find a Force expression for mass m moving x(t) or lets say (distance D in this case=0.974m), in a time t as measured by observer lets say (Tau in this case since I had to switch variables in middle=3.74966071e-9s), in 1-D, due to a constant force F.
(Tau here is not the proper time btw)
The expression is F = 2*D*M/(T^2-(D/c)^2) and inserting above values you get 7.56*10^17N which is even greater than what you got (expected)
And you can even find the real final speed by utilizing the expression for v you already got above and substituting F in it.
F=2Dmc^2/((cT)^2-D^2), v=2TDc^2/((cT)^2-D^2)/sqrt(1+(2DTc/((cT)^2-D^2)))^2), v=2TDc^2/sqrt(((cT)^2-D^2)^2+(2DTc)^2), v=2TDc^2/((cT)^2+D^2)
Which is 2.967385951736*10^8 m/s which is about 0.9898c
Kinda funny how a 0.0000001% difference can decide whether a feat is 7-A or 9-C isn't it?
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Yeah well it's sub-light speed for 2nd scenario because we were working in a Relativistic setting, otherwise one would've said this is FTL speed (as in 1st scenario)
I also think there could be some internal standard for legitimate "FTL" stuff (throwing stars for example) even if we use wrong physics for powerscaling convenience alone
However in this case, we'd be scaling characters to Class-T/P lifting strength because they dodged/reacted to light with a hat on or whatever (just a goofy example, I think you also mentioned a counterpoint for yourself before with konohamaru so you get it already) if there was a precedence of faster meaning more power even if the specific scene itself doesn't roll with that intent
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Am I misscounting or does this thread have 4 staff disagreements?
@Damage3245, @Dalesean027, @KingTempest, and @Armorchompy
@Damage3245, @Dalesean027, @KingTempest, and @Armorchompy
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Pretty much, but the thread has only been open a day roughly. Can wait a while longer.
Though the OP should be updated with the votes.
HelloThere1089
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Wait what is happening in JJK? Why is the villain getting protagonist power of friendship flashbacks???
Ghostimuscrime
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Gege’s wife let him have his annual drink of one monster can
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