This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
And to that Astral already clarified, whereas the other person has not replied again this thread. This isn't about "did not seek to argue further", this is about him asking a question if it's the same time travel ability being used to time travel, which we proved that yes, it is.
As for "the translation is a bit wrong", Seiji already clarified it means moving between world-lines before, with no uncertainty in his words, so why are we trusting the words of the opposition in terms of what it translates to when even a translation staff has said otherwise?
Just because a translation says and can mean one thing, doesnt mean the novel has to agree with that.
Setto is typically given isolated lines in order to give the direct and most precise meaning of what's trying to be portrayed, but that doesnt mean that it is indicative of an entire cosmological situation, especially if it's authors notes which can contradict the source material if the author isnt careful.
We have seen, and been told that Chloe goes back in time. If we were to take the "world-line" argument, there should be concrete evidence they exist all at once instead of one at a time as it is drawing heavy inspiration from steins:gate.
The only "evidence" provided, is Setto saying chloe is moving between world-lines which doesnt even mean they all exist at the same time, cause we have the steins:gate context to draw from. I can easily just state that it is chloe moving back in time, or resetting back to an origin point in time for her, then upon getting to a place where she initially stopped and gets reset, she goes through a different route causing different history. This would satisfy every point that you guys are trying to justify multiple world-lines existing at the same time.
Like there isn't even evidence of multiple world-lines existing all at the same time in the sandbox, this is all just hasty generalization.
You do know the very same person you're quoting as "agree with" does not know what orthogonality is? When he's being far, far more lenient on things that our standards outright deny?
I seem to have misread that part of his explanation as requiring the axes to be 'exactly orthogonal.' Regardless, that feels like a nitpick for an explanation that is, for the most part, a correct and helpful breakdown of what counts as a hypertimeline.
The confusion over whether strict orthogonality is required is understandable. In the context of a time axis, any direction distinct from standard time is sufficient to prove the existence of a hypertimeline, because any different direction inherently implies a separate orthogonality. Not everyone can deduce that nuance, especially considering we often treat any mention of a 'different direction of time' as synonymous with orthogonality, but for the most part, his reasoning is correct. So i wouldn't be so hard on him for this. Personally. Everyone makes mistakes, once or twice. Shouldn't be the sole reason to entire,y discard it.
And you do know the same person you're quoting said he'd agree to the hypertimeline existing under the premise that Chloe is using the time travel ability itself to travel between world-lines?
That idea works, as long as both worldlines has separate origin of time. That said, separate origin of time is important qualifier. If they are sourced by same time axis then they are following same direction at the end of the day.
So before Rimuru acquiring Time Wrap, no one could "move to the past" as in the direct past of the same World-Line, which means Chloe always moved to a different world-line, it's just that she didn't remember her memories in those instances.
From the two author notes which i did a quick translation to find the relevant parts. So there are two relevant parts
First it said something about Rimuru being sent into far future which i think already addressed by Reiner
Next is something about it is impossible to time travel. Oke this part is relevant. However, the issues still prevail, which i have said above, most of the evidence pointing to Chloe travel into the past of the world line because
1. If she travel to a different timeline, she don't need to assimilate with another version of her
2. If she travel to a different timeline, no reason for her to lose her memories, unless the verse actually specific why it is the case, but from what i saw, no such a thing
The problem is how this contradict with author note, but actually it is not the contradiction in my opinion because if Chloe not time travel like Rimuru then it not violate anything, that she, unlike Rimuru do mot physically appear in the past, this is supported by two thing
1. She assimilated with her pastself and lost her memory thus that mean to the world she is still the same Chloe, no
2. She sent her spirit back to the past instead of literally time travel to the past, this evidenced by the fact that she need to assimilate with her past self, if she truly time travelled like Rimuru, mean there must be 2 duplicated version of her, sending her spirit bypass this.
These two statements pretty confirmed that overlapping existence
So literally, Chloe achieved pseudo-time travel by sending her will to the past and merge with her pastself, not literally move herself to appear in the past
And again i already explained the author not about 1% chance of moving worldlike and reading steiner ability which belong to steins;gate (i'm a fan of steins;gate) which is entirely unneeded for the case of travelling between world-lines/timelines
By some means, he helped Chloe, so that she might to interfere the past?
Wild Mass Guessing by YukkuriOniisan: Ah… This is maybe the start of the second timeline. I think I need to read the LN if it someday reach this point (hopefully there will be a timeline chart)
Bro, the translator was guessing, he even said he need to read the LN if it someday reach that point, and hoping there will be a timeline chart, bruhh
Also even if i take this guessing as literal, start of a second timeline?, like that mean there was only one timeline, until Chloe succeed and a second start, finite timeline?. Also you could interpreting second timeline as, the timeline changed thus this new changed timeline is the second one
I'd like to address this asap but there are a few tls I need done for this that outright have the author saying Chloe travelled to different timelines. I'd be waiting for that to be done (so I guess another few days of this thread been dead)
Also, guys, please don't fight over the votes. This is a formal discussion, not a circus.
The stuff regarding End of Space-Time is plainly by both staff (Reiner and Viett).
The other main argument about Chloe's time travel, though, the disagreement is being made upon the specifications in-verse rather than the model presented in the OP, so it's not a matter of "Even if that's true, it won't work under our standards" but instead "I doubt that's how it works in-verse".
And albeit the latter can be proven otherwise through discussion, there are many scans that need translation (or to be specific, confirmations by Seiji as the new person [Raiki] translated most of them), but since that takes a while, there's a large time difference between each reply.
(At worst we'll need to consider everything other than the Chloe argument rejected and close the CRT, while waiting for the translations to be finished before making one specifically for Chloe's argument after that. As for how long that takes, I do not know)
I think these 2 posts quite addresses everything i have in mind. So don't make write it all down just to repeat all that. No way my lazy ass doing it anyways.
I forgot to say this earlier but hopefully it's not too late. My disagreement with the thread is even stronger now. Previously I was holding out for some more context to see if the world-lines all existed in some sort of time-like progression that would denote a higher temporal axis governing them, but as it turns out, with what @TheHyperGuy pointed out, the world-lines don't even "exist" in the conventional sense and Chloe simply moves the world-line rather than time-traveling to any. If that's the case, any arguments for Tier 1 with this line of reasoning are all null and void and should honestly warrant a discussion rule IMO to not be brought up again (I've checked, this exact argument has been repeated in various forms in at least 3 different threads, I could fetch them rn but too lazy for that). If anything I believe the OP may even have been misleading on that front which I find rather alarming but whatever. Point is, my argument is no longer even just that "it may be possible with better evidence" it's now more like "there's no evidence, hard disagree, this is downright bad evidence."
The counter-arguments used to discredit them are based on hypotheses that are far removed from reality, in fact, very far from what it seems.
Someone with minimal knowledge of the web novel (and who isn't one of those who only disagree with the verses they hate) would know it; you can't base an external logic on a verse that applies it in a way you don't know much about.
Much of what is taken out of this scale depends on how the verse is handled, especially regarding Yuuki being a spiritual life form (eternal beings) so to speak.
Dude ur making it too obvious that ur tryna wank the verse to oblivion. and fyi, none of the counters made by any of us were "far from reality". The whole problem was that some of the arguments in the first place were non sequitar. Also ur implying that logic in general doesnt apply to anything within a verse as if fiction has authority over logic, which is possibly the stupidest statement ever made. You should probably rephrase.
Ant, this is really seeming like it'll be a circular discussion to no end until another mod comes
can you @ someone else or the same people who didn't come but understand about this (@Qawsedf234) for example, please?
Ant, this is really seeming like it'll be a circular discussion to no end until another mod comes
can you @ someone else or the same people who didn't come but understand about this (@Qawsedf234) for example, please?
Well, since I got busy and couldn't respond, I'll do it here. Hopefully(?) it isn't a problem but I feel like if we're making summaries then updated responses are the best way to make them. Anyway, here goes nothing.
It's pretty much a "got swallowed by the entire continuum and thrown out" like the analogy @Ciel_Trinity439 used. Space and All of Time stretch infinitely below at Rimuru, swallowing him (along with all his clones), and because the repulsive force tries to get back everything to normal, the framework breaks and Rimuru's sent beyond time.
This is one of the ways to prove a hypertimeline, but not a set requirement for all cases that they HAVE to prove unless in the presence of contradictory evidence.
No, no. You have to prove one of these things at least (or of course, the more the better, but you can't get away from the burden of proof here). Hypertimelines aren't "Hey look this is a hypertimeline, now prove to me that this isn't one!", that's not how it works. You need to prove that it is one via one of the ways I mentioned. To the best of my knowledge, those are the only Wiki-accepted methods. Anything outside of that purview simply doesn't matter for tiering.
I'm pretty sure I made it clear that Chloe is using the skill <Time Traveler> and later its evolution <Yog Sothoth>. These are the specific abilities being used. I need to edit the OP a bit since I found something more useful in my last reply to Vietthai, but essentially the difference between both is that the first one doesn't let you remember events of the future (other world-line) while the latter does let you do that.
You might need to present some more evidence on the relation between those two abilities and if they're both using the same time travel mechanic (doesn't need to be ultra-specific but something implying that would work too), but that's besides the point now. The main concern now is whether Chloe even time travels to those world-lines or simply 'moves them' with that ability (essentially forcing herself into a different point in time in the same world-line as opposed to time traveling to divergent ones). If it's the latter, then this argument is completely void.
It could be another space-time yes, and I didn't say the thing "outside all-time" doesn't have time or space. Just that they are higher notions, such as hypertimeline and hyperspace (insignificant untierable 5D space that continuums are embedded in per our standards).
Still, the fact that the outer space-time is "different" is also a supporting evidence for hypertimeline, especially when this outer one is supposed to contain the normal one (they were sent outside the continuum yet were still inside the world)
This image is essentially mathematically inconsistent as both infinities are equally infinite, they should not "end before or after one another", the >< symbol are there at the end of each for a reason lol
That's not the point. The point here is that you can have two timelines that are "different" or one where it's embedded in the other, while still being parallel aka having the same point of origin. If they're parallel, they won't form a time-like progression of world-lines. Orthogonality is a requirement here like it or not.
I did not say just being different axis is the reason. I said its because one "time" ends before another, despite both being, well, infinite. That can only be if both are ortohonal, and you haven't proven otherwise so far (since you completely misunderstood the argument).
Not necessarily, orthogonality doesn't really work like that. For one, unless there's a cause (such as destruction, time-stop, etc), infinite time can't just "end" like this. Even if it does for the various reasons I pointed out, the fact that another timeline doesn't end is not evidence of a higher and/or orthogonal, it can also be achieved with just another space-time being serviced by a different temporal dimension that ultimately still flows in the same axis. THAT is what my image is meant to depict above, not whether they're infinite or not.
Uh.... the flow of time refers to the direction of time (events). One example being past -> future.
And once again, you aren't exaclty understanding the analogy here. I didn't say "a mere difference in time is sufficient" but "an infinite difference in time is". I'd be happy if you didn't ignore the keywords...
Not really. For example, let's say timeline 1 "stops" at 1800 hours and timeline 2 "stops" at 2300 hours. Now, in terms of tiering, there's still an uncountably infinite number of snapshots between them. IF this is what you mean, then this is not evidence this is just how time in general is treated here. If not, then I have no idea what "infinite difference of time" even means here. If you meant one 'infinite' timeline stopping while the other continues ad infinitum, you can literally just use that same analogy above and extend timeline 2 ad infinitum, the point stays the same that this isn't evidence of higher time but just how time in general works here.
Nope, since the direction of the line is still left to right, that image is not about a hypertimeline. Besides, an accute angle can't be a Low 1-C hypertimeline as orthogonality is only achieved at 90 degrees (that's literally what orthogonality is lol)
Correct, but you misunderstand a little. Orthogonality here isn't referring to the fact you must literally prove that a timeline flows at a 90 degree angle to normal time (that's almost impossible), but the fact that time must flow in different directions/axes (think of them as "physical" axes if you must). This still achieves the result of them having unique points of origins as well as creating uncountably infinite snapshots of normal timelines as the hypertimeline passes.
Uh, no... if it isn't at 90 degrees it won't be orthogonal and resultantly won't extent in an entirely different direction. A non-orthogonal difference becomes insignificant if the line is infinite.
Orthogonality is REQUIRED for Low 1-C and hypertimelines
Otherwise it just ends up as a different timeline with a non-orthogonal different flow of time (slightly tilted direction but not orthogonal).
They have different temporal flow rates which is different from a temporal axis. Bleach does not have a hyper timeline. In context the time flow of the Dangai is forwards-backwards and not orthogonal, which is needed for that Low 1-C rating. Having said that the Dangai itself is still probably...
I know it is. I'm saying you're misunderstanding what orthogonality here is. You can't prove a flow of time flows literally 90 degree perpendicular to normal time, that's fundamentally impossible to prove. What I'm trying to tell you here is that this only matters in order to show a time-like progression of the different world-lines. This is achieved via orthogonality of "any angle" so to speak, because to even have an "acute angle" as you say here, it must flow in a non-parallel direction which is what matters here. Being non-parallel is an important aspect, you're getting hung up too much on orthogonality.
Refer to what I said above
I don't think you understand the time dimension standards here lol
Well, that's normal since you're new... I'd suggest spending a bit of time surfing the forum :d
Its just that the spatial one is not tierable since its not infinite or universal in size.
This part of my argument for orthogonality was; Since we by default assume spatial dimensions are orthogonal (unless stated otherwise), a "time" dimension overarching that hyperspace would have to be orthogonal (hypertimeline) as well since you can't have 4D time flowing over 5D hyperspace, insignificant or not.
Yeah, this isn't how it works. This is the issue you're running into. You're supposing that it's orthogonal with no real evidence other than an assumption. That's not how it works. You don't just go "Uh well this is a 5D space so it must also have 5D time!!!" that's fundamentally illogical. Also there's a difference between that space having its own time, and a temporal dimension that embeds that space + other world-lines. You're flip-flopping between the two for some reason. Which one do you refer to here?
And I said that you'd need to prove that they're the same abilities entirely or at least work on the same mechanic. But also the whole world-line thing seems to be under question entirely so I'm not sure this even works anymore.
This....doesn't really help? If anything, this is weird. If a hypertimeline is to be assumed, why can not be used to traverse the hypertimeline to end up at a previous point in time in the universe? If you can't time travel within the same timeline with this ability, then this argument doesn't work because at that point what you're referring to is just simple multiversal time travel, not a hypertimeline.
See above, this is a defeating argument. You're saying that travel to a timeline's past is only possible by jumping to another timeline, and that this ability cannot be used to jump to the past of the same timeline. My entire assumption here was that this is true and that, if you can prove that both of these things are achieved with the same ability, then it's very likely a hypertimeline instead of simple multiversal time travel. If the former doesn't happen though, then this argument just doesn't work. Why did you say that Chloe could travel within the same world-lines then? If she can't use them to travel to the past of the same world-lines then this isn't really a hypertimeline but rather simply multiversal time travel.
I forgot to say this earlier but hopefully it's not too late. My disagreement with the thread is even stronger now. Previously I was holding out for some more context to see if the world-lines all existed in some sort of time-like progression that would denote a higher temporal axis governing them, but as it turns out, with what @TheHyperGuy pointed out, the world-lines don't even "exist" in the conventional sense and Chloe simply moves the world-line rather than time-traveling to any. If that's the case, any arguments for Tier 1 with this line of reasoning are all null and void and should honestly warrant a discussion rule IMO to not be brought up again (I've checked, this exact argument has been repeated in various forms in at least 3 different threads, I could fetch them rn but too lazy for that). If anything I believe the OP may even have been misleading on that front which I find rather alarming but whatever. Point is, my argument is no longer even just that "it may be possible with better evidence" it's now more like "there's no evidence, hard disagree, this is downright bad evidence."
Becuase I'm pretty sure this CRT (and it's previous version that got nuked by derialment) was the only one where this author note stamement was used.
(I might be misremembering, but I recall creating a thread like many many months ago but I closed that soon after due to irl reasons that doesn't even count)
And creating a rule due to usage of a statement for which you didn't even check the approved translation.....really?
There is one explanation for this long discussion, and I don’t think there’s more than this: →If the phrase "end of time" in this context means that this time has a point at which it stops that it has a specific moment it reaches, and it simply stops without being destroyed, just reaching its...
It is kind of an argument, tho. A space beyond 4D time (in which the continuum is embedded in) is insignificant 5D, but Time flowing through that space would also be 5D AT LEAST, except significant since it's infinite.
Hypertimelines aren't "Hey look this is a hypertimeline, now prove to me that this isn't one!", that's not how it works. You need to prove that it is one via one of the ways I mentioned. To the best of my knowledge, those are the only Wiki-accepted methods. Anything outside of that purview simply doesn't matter for tiering.
I literally showed they evolved from one another. Although I was wrong in one aspect — Her previous ability didn't have the limitation of "can't travel to other timelines" but "can't remember what happened in the timeline she was originally in.
I assumed you were at least following this thread so you'd know of that scans I gave you to Vietthia....
Well, here:
So this is Chloe's ability, before evolution and after evolution.
BEFORE
――Are the things in the future decided too?
No, what is decided to that extend is unknown.
What I know is this moment now, when the True Hero awakened, only to that extent. At the time I flew into the past, the Hero whose existence overlaps disappeared and is untied from all limitations.
That is, even though it’s an existence of the assimilated me and you, it can be said to be another person. Chapter 124
Though it might be impossible, even if she calculated it with the Unique Skill 『Mathematician』 , however she understood that the possibility for this is improbable.
(But still, I can’t help but pray. Because to die is to give up and make the best use of my life for everyone........)
Hinata accepted the offer. “Thank you,” she muttered in small voice to the girl, Chloe, Hinata and Chloe’s soul mixed together as one and leapt through the barrier of time.
To a far-off past. And now, the endless journey of the girl called Chloe and Hinata begins.
Chapter 124
Because she went to the past together with Hinata’s Will, Chloe didn’t taste solitude. And under the tutoring of Hinata, an excellent teacher, she was able to learn all the skills that Hinata had known. Because of that the foundation was made......
――She awoke the Ultimate Skill 『Space-Time King (YogSothoth)』 ――
Thanks to this ability she was able to recall the future memory. It’s a thing that Chloe from previous iterations was not able to do.
Originally, Hinata’s 『Mathematician』 and 『Usurper』 were unified with 『Absolute Severance』 and 『Infinity Prison』 and she acquired Ultimate Skill 『Hope King (Sariel)』 .
This time, she absorbed the energy from Hinata’s Soul without a problem, so she could remain without being mixed, and Hinata’s soul could be revived in pure form. What it brought was an absolute power that rules over time and space.
It was the awakening of two abilities called Ultimate Skill『Space-Time King (Yog-Sothoth)』 and『Hope King (Sariel)』.
Chloe who awoke this ability and obtained an ability to memorize and repeat the time she spent on this moment again and again.
During combat, she was able to start over again after she saw the enemy’s attack.
That absolute superiority Chloe had, made Hero Chloe becomes the strongest existence. Chapter 125
The attack that Guy used――Calamity Claw――, was an attack that carried an intense poison property.
But it wasn't something on the level of a "poison", it was an attack that infected the target with an infectious virus, which also corrodes the mind, starting from the point of contact.
In fact, Chloe has... Really "died" once to this attack.
Although her absolute defense automatically blocks incoming attacks, it doesn't stop the virus which spread to her from her sword.
As such, Chloe met her demise from the virus that was spread unto her from receiving Guy's attack.
Using Ultimate Skill『Space-Time King (Yog-Sothoth)』, she successfully evades the attack, after "remembering" the memory of dying once in the future.
After experiencing the event once, she returns to the past.
In other words, "remembering" a memory from the future.
To the opponent facing her, it’d simply look like Chloe made the "lucky" choice of evading the attack, but the truth is far from that.
With great confidence, Chloe was making the best choices in defense she could choose. Chapter 209
So the one sole difference is her ability to or to not remember the future. But here's the thing, she can only travel to the past of different world-lines, because Time is a one-way street. It doesn't allow for conventional time travel.
Author’s Note
Explanation time. I wrote it and was confused.
I notice that the consistency was sketchy and I couldn’t write freely when I began to think about the concept of time. Though it almost got mixed up several times, but is it alright?
I pray that there will be no fatal mistakes found in there.
The main concern now is whether Chloe even time travels to those world-lines or simply 'moves them' with that ability (essentially forcing herself into a different point in time in the same world-line as opposed to time traveling to divergent ones). If it's the latter, then this argument is completely void.
There is one explanation for this long discussion, and I don’t think there’s more than this: →If the phrase "end of time" in this context means that this time has a point at which it stops that it has a specific moment it reaches, and it simply stops without being destroyed, just reaching its...
This is partially wrong and partially right. Hyperspaces (if it's referring to space in which the universe is embedded in) is 5D by default, just that it's not significant and not tierable to Low 1-C UNLESS it's proven to be of significant size.
This is also wrong. Our standards assume they ARE 5D by default, just not Low 1-C
Speed page:
Dimensions
Speed isn't defined by any number of spatial dimensions but simply distance over time. Meaning that it is possible for 1-dimensional characters to be faster than those who cover many dimensions. And the distance between two timelines is defined as the 5th dimension (Or a 4th spatial dimension) that separates two or more universes. Said distance is often unknown as it could be anywhere between much smaller than the Universal radius and infinite. But such details are only known to those who can travel through additional spatial dimensions. For that reason, crossing Universes is unquantifiable for speed unless details are specifically stated.
To elaborate, a structure larger than 2-A meets the requirements for dimensional superiority over them if it either explicitly mentions an uncountably infinite number of universes or has portrayals/statements of being larger than 2-A structures to the point that even infinite multipliers on top of the size of that structure are of no relevance to it. Multiversal structures past Low 2-C frequently have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them. That isn't automatically Low 1-C, as for Low 1-C the distance must be known to be of non-insignificant size.
It indeed doesn't by default requuire a hypertimeline, but it's being used as evidence that when Rimuru is experiencing the supposed Hypertimeline, he's outside the 4-Dimensional Continuum
That's not the point. The point here is that you can have two timelines that are "different" or one where it's embedded in the other, while still being parallel aka having the same point of origin. If they're parallel, they won't form a time-like progression of world-lines. Orthogonality is a requirement here like it or not.
If timelines are parallel, one wouldn't require time travel to go to another Timeline, just spatial travel on a 4D scale ja enough.
The fact that Chloe uses time travel, of all things, to go to different world-lines, means that those world-lines are treated as past/future snapshots of the Hypertimeline. That would prove orthogonality as well because you can't travel to another timeline via 4D time travel.
Not necessarily, orthogonality doesn't really work like that. For one, unless there's a cause (such as destruction, time-stop, etc), infinite time can't just "end" like this.
That really depends on fiction to fiction. Characters with infinite age exist in fiction.
Although, again, there's also the point about Beelzebub in the OP, such that Yuuki can just swallow the entire continuum (along with its concept of time), albeit not instantly (from his own perspective).
Even if it does for the various reasons I pointed out, the fact that another timeline doesn't end is not evidence of a higher and/or orthogonal, it can also be achieved with just another space-time being serviced by a different temporal dimension that ultimately still flows in the same axis. THAT is what my image is meant to depict above, not whether they're infinite or not.
That wouldn't work since unless Orthogonality exists, Time that flows towards the same direction would have to end at the same time as others of it's kind. You can't have two parallel lines (NOT segments) and say one ends before another even when viewed from a higher perspective.
Not really. For example, let's say timeline 1 "stops" at 1800 hours and timeline 2 "stops" at 2300 hours. Now, in terms of tiering, there's still an uncountably infinite number of snapshots between them.
This doesn't matter here because you're considering finite time (1800 hours) whereas I'm considering infinite time. It'll be false equivalence otherwise.
If not, then I have no idea what "infinite difference of time" even means here. If you meant one 'infinite' timeline stopping while the other continues ad infinitum, you can literally just use that same analogy above and extend timeline 2 ad infinitum, the point stays the same that this isn't evidence of higher time but just how time in general works here.
You can't "increase" infinity just by adding an infinity or multiplying it by 2 or 3. Infinity x 2 = Infinity still.
This is the same as how multiplying a cardinal (let's say Aleph-0 or aleph1) by something smaller than itself does not change it's size.
Correct, but you misunderstand a little. Orthogonality here isn't referring to the fact you must literally prove that a timeline flows at a 90 degree angle to normal time (that's almost impossible), but the fact that time must flow in different directions/axes (think of them as "physical" axes if you must). This still achieves the result of them having unique points of origins as well as creating uncountably infinite snapshots of normal timelines as the hypertimeline passes.
I know it is. I'm saying you're misunderstanding what orthogonality here is. You can't prove a flow of time flows literally 90 degree perpendicular to normal time, that's fundamentally impossible to prove.
Not really. As I showed above, infinite time difference (one infinite time dimension ending before another) necessitates orthogonality (insofar as that it won't be orthogonal even if that angle is there but below 90°)
Alternatively, time travelling to other timelines also proves this. Becuase if it's not orthogonal (90°) then one can just go to it via Spatial travel
What I'm trying to tell you here is that this only matters in order to show a time-like progression of the different world-lines. This is achieved via orthogonality of "any angle" so to speak, because to even have an "acute angle" as you say here, it must flow in a non-parallel direction which is what matters here. Being non-parallel is an important aspect, you're getting hung up too much on orthogonality.
Could you perhaps provide an article discussing "orthogonality of non-perpendicular/acute angles" then?
Though, for the sake of me giving this one-time example, let's assume such a thing exists. Even then, the examples I gave (Infinite time difference + cross-timeline travel) would necessitate orthogonality as these examples go against the notion of "parallel" entirely.
Not really condescending. If that's how my wording appears then my apologies. Maybe it's my excessive use of grammar or being extra formal, but that's just the way I speak ¯\(ツ)/¯
Yeah, this isn't how it works. This is the issue you're running into. You're supposing that it's orthogonal with no real evidence other than an assumption. That's not how it works. You don't just go "Uh well this is a 5D space so it must also have 5D time!!!" that's fundamentally illogical.
If it's about proving the space is 5D, again, it's literally outside the space-time continuum yet inside the world (hypertimeline).
One might say, can't this just be inside yet another space time continuum that's parallel? And form this, NO, becuase even after 4D infinite time ended, hypertime still flows here.
Also there's a difference between that space having its own time, and a temporal dimension that embeds that space + other world-lines. You're flip-flopping between the two for some reason. Which one do you refer to here?
Technically no, not the same. The above is like jumping to an orthogonal line, while the latter is just jumping to a parallel line next to an already existing one.
I assumed you had also read the scans I sent to veitthai, and even now, at least had read the summary post. But in any case, I quoted them above once again.
Should we consider Seiji's words, who's an official translation staff, above Hyperguy's on "that's not what it means" who isn't a staff nor an approved translation member?
If anything, this is weird. If a hypertimeline is to be assumed, why can not be used to traverse the hypertimeline to end up at a previous point in time in the universe? If you can't time travel within the same timeline with this ability, then this argument doesn't work because at that point what you're referring to is just simple multiversal time travel, not a hypertimeline.
Becuase you can't change the past of the same World-Line, so as to manifest the results of that change into the present. In fiction, "past" is often divided into two times either you can change or or you can't change it. As for tensura, it's a law set by Veldanava that you can't change it nor materialize changes to the past into the future.
And I mean, travelling on a hypertimeline is about going from one 5D snapshot to another.
Take this, for example, that time travel is about going to different snapshots of the timeline you're travelling in. You can't really "time travel" to X if you're already at X. Travel implies movement, "in the same snapshot" is the same as being stationary (no travel or movement).
The same applies to a hypertimeline. Albeit we usually assume 5D time travel also allows for 4D time travel, but it not being such isn't an anti feat if verse mechanics treat it as such. Same line of thought as "a 3D being can't directly destroy a 2D thing", albeit it can destroy the framework the 2D thing is on.
See above, this is a defeating argument. You're saying that travel to a timeline's past is only possible by jumping to another timeline, and that this ability cannot be used to jump to the past of the same timeline. My entire assumption here was that this is true and that, if you can prove that both of these things are achieved with the same ability, then it's very likely a hypertimeline instead of simple multiversal time travel.
. Why did you say that Chloe could travel within the same world-lines then? If she can't use them to travel to the past of the same world-lines then this isn't really a hypertimeline but rather simply multiversal time travel.
This was kinda a mistake from me, which I clarified a few posts later when pointed out by Vietthai, and also me forgetting that a specific statement from the author exists (saying time is a one-way street only)
I think,.other than the faults in your argument, there were some in mine too, so I tried to improve it. Hope that helped
