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Goku ice diff?
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The Long Awaited Hazbin Hotel Season 2 CRT
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Eden_Warlock99
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BROLY ramming Goku into an ice structure (which breaks it) isn't AT ALL comparable to Lute losing from a bunch of rocks falling on her.
Eden_Warlock99
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DaReaper says you need to be 9-B+ to be bulletproof so this doesn't even work lol
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The singing is explicitly described as an amplifier for them. Like, they were amplified throughout that entire scene; it wasn't their normal power output.
"But how is a billion times the amp possible with a simple music amp?" - That's just unbelievable. We have characters on the wiki who go from 5-B to 1-A for things like that, so it doesn't really matter.
He's using disbelief to say that "nah, a music amp can't be that powerful," which can be used for anything.
Like, wow, in your own response you're literally saying "The bullets arg doesn't work when the writer actively ignores scaling". If the writing ignores the scale and consistency of powerscaling, then what exactly is the problem with a singing amp being so powerful?
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Every episode has a different main writer and several other writers working too.
So yeah, it's written by multiple people, so is Helluva, though admittedly Helluva is just Brandon Rogers and Viv for the most part.
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1. The ice itself also still hurts him and he very much is in pain
2. She didn't lose her arm from the ruble, she tore it off to get out faster, the rock just pined her there
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Which does show how much Vivize clearly does not keep track of her lore in Hazbin, since a lot of the world building in Helluva is completely incompatible with Hazbin.
Eden_Warlock99
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Viv is still the head of the writing, no? It isn't really akin to say Marvel or DC comics
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If she's main writer for an episode, it's stated in the credits. She wrote S1E1, she didn't even write the ******* pilot.
Eden_Warlock99
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Any examples?
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I have no problem with singing amp, honestly, I dont think Al should be above city level, but also not my whole point, I said that because the writters may UPSCALE the guns just to make them a threat, or they just dont think about it. Off of JUST DC Alastor is large building level CONSISTENTLY, more so than the anti-feats, which would still make the guns not make sense, and downscaling doesn't work in that instance, so guns in some verses get to become "higher with guns" no matter the tier
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By the way, I'm not saying Hazbin is as bad as a long-running comic book like Marvel, but it does have a rotating writer problem.
Eden_Warlock99
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Yeah she calls herself head writer, and I have no doubt she does do shit, but at the end of the day, it's other people writing and she yays or nays it.
Imagine if you wrote a script, hired ten people to continue from there, and took the best one from there. That's kind of what Viv does.
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Succubuses are just entirely incomprehensible purpose wise if Hell is not actually at war with Heaven until recently, heck Moxie talks in season 1 about development in gun technology in wars Hell had. Against who?????
The Goetia and Sins just doing nothing while Vox's thing goes on is just completely absurd, with there never being as much a mention of why they're nowhere (Lucifer got gifts from the Sins asking him to come back, so clearly they are aware of things in the Pride ring, so what gives?)
The Goetias being superior/relative in power makes no sense with how the Ice Twink was dealing with I.M.P, Vox would have those guys molched in five seconds if we go by portrayal.
If I rewatched both shows I'm sure I can point out more problems.
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Why can’t it be bad just for one statement lol. There can be a contradicting/nonsensical statement that is unsupported by the series and raises lots of issues, there can be a statement that makes sense within the context of the show.
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Sucu/incubi are general horny workers, you mean IMPS specifically, and there is a whole goetic system in hell, some must war with eachother
They dont want to bruise Luci's ego/probably arent allowed to by his own command, or they were dealing with the trial, or straight up didnt care, they knew luci would be fine and dont care about heaven as heaven only cares about sinner demons
This one is fair and a source of many problems, but Andre could also just be THAT much of a bum
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just say that they're weak to guns, falling rubble and falls ez
Anonymous_Learner
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Ain't Andre got magic relative to stolas, the guy who has the statement of being relative/superior to alastor tho?
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I was responding to Tllmbrg in the sense that he was saying that HH's WOG was bad, so I replied that if he thinks that, he should remove all the WOG from the verse.
In your case, well, tell me what the WOG in the singing contradicts in the verse and the scene.
Eden_Warlock99
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The problem is that it isn't a contradiction?
Like it might not be the best explanation, but it IS an explanation for the Deus Ex Machina Power of Friendship bullshit that made the Mid-Tiers stop the #1 of the verse.
Eden_Warlock99
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There's a reason he doesn't even fully scale to Alastor anymore, cause the WoG just says she's not sure how the fight would go cause of how their powers would interact.
Stolas is a hax lord. He looks at you and you become stone. Like not every "Can A beat B" is via pure power lol
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Nothing implies that, Stolas is THE Goetic demon, his Grimoire is literally sought after by Andre, so his magic doesnt compare
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1) This would literally be Deus Ex Machina out of nowhere, singing was never portrayed like that;
2) Hazbin’s broadaway force was always portrayed as your typical musical. Singing being literal is stupid;
3) They never use it during fights;
3.5) Assuming they don’t know about the singing amp, they are not surprised they stopped such a threat despite being 9-A fodders;
4) Rosie & Alastor scene are heavily implied to be Rosie asking for Alastor’s help because he is strong, not because he can sing and has some magic. She could’ve just lended some nobody souls so he can have bare minimum magic and get singing amp from there;
5) Emily downscales from Lu normally as Seraphim (Rosie implies that rankings in Неаven show power. And don’t bring up Vox restraining her, Alastor restrained General of Exorcists via magic too, doesn’t mean he is stronger), but with the sixillion amp that buffs 9-A to 5-B she should’ve simply stopped it herself;
6) AWs > heavily beaten up General of Exorcists (don’t think it’s drop him to literal 9-A), and near-100% Vox managed to scratch cell of Lucifer while Vaggie’s AW didn’t.
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Okay but why do they make people indulge in lust? If the idea is not to corrupt people so they go to Hell for bigger numbers then are they literally just going to earth for a quick ****??????????????????
Like, this is a dumb system to have if there is no greater purpose, why would you ever send out people to earth then?
And why would the Goetia in-fight like that when it seems they are all answer to Satan???
Do they not know that Lucifer can not harm Sinners despite likely knowing about him more than anyone else, what with being his direct creations?
Do they see him getting completely outstaged by Vox and think "Yah he got this, despite not laying a finger on someone who clearly pissed him off."
Do they look at Vox shooting off Heaven's gate and think "This guy will totally leave the rest of Hell alone after he conquers Heaven."
Ozzy and Beel have been portrayed as rather chill/good people, and Blitz lives in the Pride Ring which would be directly threatened. Surely if nothing, since he's Fizz's friend that would get Ozzy to do something. Mammon is a greedy bastard, what is he not interested in profiting off war/a massive chunk of potential customers of his dying?
Does Satan not care that a ton of imps (Who he's seemingly the main guy behind) will die off this conflict???
He literally got Stolas's powers, who even if you don't buy the tier 4 stuff (I don't) has the best range feat in the franchise rn outside maybe the Vox canon, and a variety of powerful abilities. Ice Twink should be handling I.M.P with no issues, and yet here we are, with us needing to believe he's somehow naturally above Overlords?????
This is why I never bought into the Hierarchy chart as a valid form of scaling.
Eden_Warlock99
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Yeah I really don't understand what's even the link between Sucu/Incubu and Heaven, they sorta have no? They sorta just Hellborn the Lust Sin made.
And like, the Hell hierarchy is a social hierarchy. I don't think she ever said all Goetia are stronger than the bottom tiers or whatever
They're also like again hax lords. Fujimoto isn't a bad writer cause the Primal Devils are hax lords instead of punch merchants lol
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I mean Chainsaw Man is badly written, but that's besides the point.
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My respect for you has shot up like 5 points
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It's a job, they are just citizens of hell, they exist to be ruled, move on
They have hobbies, and also could be waring with other individuals like gangs
They dont really have any options unless Luci allows them to intervene
Luci never asked for their help, he's the sin of pride, they let him come to them
He doesn't even know about the rest of hell, literally NO sinner mentions the other rings
he could just move down, also they aren't allowed to kill hellborn anyway, they literally have to ignore them, that's why Luci showed up, Charlie and maybe even Dazzle were hellborn, so the deal was off
no he doesnt
Just has sheit C/R Ig and can't hit the broad side of a barn
Also, the hazbin/helluva shows werent allowed to cross over yet when season 2 was in the works, so the most they could do was the gifts to Luci, they weren't legally allowed to use them yet
Eden_Warlock99
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1) It's ALREADY a Deus Ex Machina, these guys out of nowhere show this barrier power (That apparently all the Overlords have too) and despite never being portrayed as anywhere even NEAR Lucifer's power, managed to stop Lucifer's power by banding together and holding hands together
1.5) If you ignore the Lilith empowering Sinners with her songs thing, which if it was just a Lilith thing, really makes you think why they just kept killing Sinners anyway? Lilith wasn't a problem anymore why did Sera agree to the Exterminations lol
2) "Happy Day in Hell" and "Loser, Baby" are both diegetically happening in-verse, and S1's climax literally had Charlie singing as the solution to convincing the Cannibal Army to join her side. It's always been literal.
3) It's clearly NOT just singing if again, "Hear My Hope" is the ONLY time they managed to tap into this power.
Why did Frisk only get Low 1-C DT against Asriel, it would have come real handy against Flowey lol
3.5) Besides Carmilla, none of them even knew Lucifer was inside it. Also they clearly didn't think they could do it, otherwise they would've just done it immediately instead of having to be encouraged to do so by Emily and Charlie lol
4) Making a bunch of deals and throwing away a bunch of her souls seems like the wayyyyy more complicated response than just, going to the Overlord who's watching in the sidelines and telling him to go help.
5) She doesn't scale to Lucifer? The beam vaporized her wing.
6) You're really arguing Vox got a super jump in power (out of nowhere) (that isn't even slightly eluded to) cause otherwise Val scales lol
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Basically all your counters are either headcanon, assumptions, or excuses that never get explained.
Vivize should've given an explanation in-universe for why they ain't doing shit in season 2, and actually explain more of the world/demon functions.
Eden_Warlock99
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He got the book, the one Blitz had for a while. It's not going to give him any new shit unless he, ya know, decides to read and learn the spells?
**** it doesn't even seem like all Goetia got magic, Stella doesn't that's for sure.
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Listen Stella is fiction's most tragic character with how much wasted potential her writing is, I think Vivize can unironically be argued to have internalized sexism with how she writes her women.
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Because they feed off it? That's pretty notable lore.
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"Also, the hazbin/helluva shows werent allowed to cross over yet when season 2 was in the works, so the most they could do was the gifts to Luci, they weren't legally allowed to use them yet" Isn't headcannon, and explains all the sin issues, tell me why Satan would care if any imps die, hellborn being safe from exterminations is a known fact not headcannon, and give me one reason to believe why sinners know about the other rings when they think they are the top tiers and only ever bring Luci up as a challenger?
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Not really. We know they have magic, this is just a matter of its manifestation. Them being collectively enough to stop is not really Deus Ex Machina unlike singin power.
Because war will still kill lots of Winners?
So they are literally warping everything now? Noted. Give Husk about a couple dozen abilities and hax.
This... is about influencing. Not a magical 10^23x amp. Music attracts people.
I guess everyone gets new abilities and haxes! Oh and also IQ below average for not using broadaway force in fights.
So it's not even singing power as you proposed? It's just... out of nowhere? Didn't your own article say it's about singing though?
Bad analogy, it depends on the will of the characters.
But they knew that it will explode and obliterate half of Pentagram. Not really something a dozen of 9-A bums can handle.
Also, Vaggie knew too.
Emily and Charlie just said they have a chance together, uniting them, individually they stand no chance yeah.
Not really. Find some bums, force/convince him into a deal. Heck, why can't these bums be certain Cannibals themselves?
Rewarding someone who clearly defied her, while being openly mad about it, is stupid.
In my mind, she scaled above General of Exorcists.
Fair point, and it's possible that she is a weaker Seraphim because she is younger. Still, should not be 10^23 times less powerful LOL.
He gets stronger with popularity, which naturally rises every second. We even see that his graph linearly grew throughout the entire day after he "beat" Alastor.
Popularity does not really come with snap of fingers. That's how social media and TV works.
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We don't dismiss things simply because they're deus ex machina. And regarding the second part, like, the singing has already been portrayed that way (in the context of singing = power).
Like, the first episode has a scene where Lilith is described as empowering demons with her voice and music.
And WOG explains that this scene isn't about emotional power, but about real power.
And before you say "why don't they sing all the time to amplify their power?"
We know it amplifies, but not by how much or how it works. We only know that several overlords and seraphim singing and combining their powers were enough for 5-B.
One thing being stupid doesn't contradict anything.
Yes, they sing all the time, but what does that contradict about singing being an amplifier?
Isn't that an argument? 99% of the characters on the wiki don't use all their powers in combat; we don't ignore powers because they aren't used consistently.
Like, seriously, Alastor has some things in his P&A that he doesn't use in combat. Like fire hax, he's never used it, so let's remove it then? He can also teleport people, why hasn't he ever used that in combat? Seriously?
Besides, for your argument to work, the characters have to be aware that singing can actively serve that purpose. They might be singing because they like to sing without being aware of this active amplifier (which is normal because these characters sing in all sorts of situations for no reason).
The characters are currently 8-A, not 9-A.
Furthermore, why would they be surprised? In terms of the statement, that bomb only had the power to destroy half the city; we're just assuming it has more power than that.
Besides, being surprised or not by something doesn't mean much. The characters' reactions or what they think aren't absolute truths about anything. If an ordinary sinner looked at Adam and said, "Nah, I'd easily defeat you with a single finger," you'd give him the same tier as Adam because "well, this guy is very confident he'd defeat Adam and isn't afraid." Actually, we don't do that, otherwise Alastor would already be in tier 7.
If you think the characters' reactions matter so much, then why did Husk, the FTL/5-B, react by hiding behind a car when some radar guns fired at him with ordinary firearms?
Alastor is helping because he's strong and also because he's another person singing, which helps with amplification.
There's a difference in power between 14 tier 8 people amplifying each other and 14 tier 10 people amplifying each other. Having more strength helps because it receives more momentum through an amplifier (like math).
If Emily downgrades Lucifer, and she's normally 5-B, then it worsens the explosion feat, because now it wouldn't be a bunch of 8-A receiving an amplification, it would be a bunch of 8-A and 5-B receiving an amplification and stopping the explosion.
Furthermore, again you assume they know exactly the mechanics of musical amplification + the argument of "if they have this power, why don't they use it?"
Characters having various powers and not using them all the time, or not using some powers in the most efficient way possible, is the most common thing that exists. Unless you think we have to remove powers from P&A that aren't used all the time or in the most efficient way possible.
Adam was seriously injured and attacked from behind by surprise; it's not really that serious.
Besides, angelic weapons aren't currently accepted as such a significant power boost, otherwise the hotel staff would be 7-C with angelic weapons, which doesn't fit their profile.
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The guy who responded to me with "my idea is more popular so I won".
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My "headcannon" is just me paying attention to how the story portrays itself, and also literal shown/stated or both fact, like how only sinners can be targeted on extermination, not knowing that is kinda strange as a hazbin watcher
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